Non-adult photography *discuss*

[SilentKnight]

Over the years I've made it no secret that although porn pays the bills (on a good month)...my personal passion is non-adult scenic photography and photographing old abandoned locations. Having worked in the adult industry now for almost fifteen years and dealt with its volatile revenue and political/social trends...eventually I hope to shift gears and explore the non-adult photo market in some aspects.

Although this topic's come up numerous times before - I'm wondering how many of you make some coin doing scenic work. I've had several ideas for marketing and promoting my own images (calendars, travel postcards, coffeetable books, mall kiosk gallery, etc.) - so I'm curious what venues you find lucrative and worthwhile. Do you sell prints? Matted? Framed? Distribute your own work...or sell licensing to others?

[BoyAlley]

It would seem to me that it would be a lot harder to make buck off of scenic imagery than off of porn shoots?

[digitalfrog]

Well, I'm a party photographer based in Amsterdam and .... it does not pay ;-)
Free parties, free drinks and cool people but that's it.
Lucky it's not my main job ;-)

Da Frog

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

It would seem to me that it would be a lot harder to make buck off of scenic imagery than off of porn shoots?

I tend to agree - and there lies the greater challenge.

[Hue G. Pness]

Mainstream photography can do pretty decent money wise if you can put togeather some decent stock photograph collections for designers, mainstream business and what not. You would be suprised.

[Grapesoda]

the photo biz took a dump when the web slowed up, Amazon crashed etc . . . all those guys were shooting for mainstream websites . . you know pics of assholes drinking coffee or what ever for ads and such. now most photography is work for hire and not really licensed anymore, and now that every joe blow has a digi cam and printer it's even harder to sell prints . . . Go to http://www.dpreview.com/ and start stalking the forums, you'll get a good over view of what's going on . .. BTW this is not intended to discourage you in any way . . . Get busy bro . .

[Cassavetes]

I can't say I've personally made any money shooting scenic material - I have made some good $$ shooting fashion for a couple of magazines. I do know of one photographer I hired on many occasions for my last magazine that was tremendous at shooting travel features and his scenic work was outstanding. Travel offers a LOT of opportunities.

[tony286]

I think its takes longer to make a name for yourself then the money can start coming in.

[pornguy]

Hey SK. hit me on ICQ when you have a chance, I want to talk with you about this.

[Red Ezra]

every long journey starts with one step - jump in and go forward

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by bmb

the photo biz took a dump when the web slowed up, Amazon crashed etc . . . all those guys were shooting for mainstream websites . . you know pics of assholes drinking coffee or what ever for ads and such. now most photography is work for hire and not really licensed anymore, and now that every joe blow has a digi cam and printer it's even harder to sell prints . . . Go to http://www.dpreview.com/ and start stalking the forums, you'll get a good over view of what's going on . .. BTW this is not intended to discourage you in any way . . . Get busy bro . .

Pretty good summation I'd say. I've seen a lot of photo discussions in the past few years about the glut of 'joe blow' photographers on the scene these days due to the availability of cheap digicams. Potential customers are happy to settle sometimes for mediocre images if it means they can have'em cheap. It can be frustrating at times for those of us who are both experienced and who have formal photography training (college/university).

Personally, I think online isn't really the marketplace I'd want to explore mostly, though. I'm thinking someone would be more apt to buy an image if they saw it nicely framed and presented at a mall kiosk, as opposed to looking at a reduced-size, compressed online image. Hard to say for sure.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by pornguy

Hey SK. hit me on ICQ when you have a chance, I want to talk with you about this.

Done bro.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by tony404

I think its takes longer to make a name for yourself then the money can start coming in.

True, too.

But I figure if Sherman Hines can sell calendars featuring "Great Outhouses of Canada" in Coles and Chapters stores...there's hope for my stuff someday.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Pretty good summation I'd say. I've seen a lot of photo discussions in the past few years about the glut of 'joe blow' photographers on the scene these days due to the availability of cheap digicams. Potential customers are happy to settle sometimes for mediocre images if it means they can have'em cheap. It can be frustrating at times for those of us who are both experienced and who have formal photography training (college/university).

Personally, I think online isn't really the marketplace I'd want to explore mostly, though. I'm thinking someone would be more apt to buy an image if they saw it nicely framed and presented at a mall kiosk, as opposed to looking at a reduced-size, compressed online image. Hard to say for sure.

look in to fetish and hit tachen up . .

[Kristian]

Have you spent 15 years of practice and erudition, only to exhibit your art in a mall? I could give you a million ideas and I don't live and breath photography. My advice : combine your talent with imagination and don't imitate, lead the way.

[2HousePlague]

The problem is... as I have written both here on GFY and on my own sites... (well, there are two problems: 1. Our eyes are just plain burned out -- We've seen too much, too many bloated bodies in the water, too many beaheadings, too many inches of black cock in teen ass. The organ is tired. and 2. We have lost our sense of "genuine original", for the pervasiveness of perfect digital facsimiles of everything.

This, however -- REALLY happened. I was there on that spot wanting to bury my face in that woman's crotch. Yep.





2hp

[European Lee]

Originally Posted by Hue G. Pness

Mainstream photography can do pretty decent money wise if you can put togeather some decent stock photograph collections for designers, mainstream business and what not. You would be suprised.

Indeed

We're in the process of setting up a stock photography site at the moment which will be ready fully by late March '06.

We've made a few sales to some of the publishers we know at the moment and with prices in the range of $600-$1000+ per image, there is a LOT of money to be made from stock photography

Regards,

Lee

[latinasojourn]

there are many venues to sell scenic photography if what you do is unique and very high quality.

galleries, consignment deals with galleries, art fairs, wholesaling to custom frame shops, event vanity photography, etc. etc. etc

but your work must be original, unique, and superb to make any serious money.

the easy part is running around with high rez equip and capturing mother nature when the light is just right.

the tricky part is selling it.

and raw talent ain't enough---90% of your talent must be in marketing.

clue: ansel adams was mostly a pauper when he was alive.

[latinasojourn]

forgot to mention.

with digital if you plan to sell high art you must use pigmented long life (100 years+ archival) ink sets.

and educate yourself to the current state of the art---only just recently is it good enough to compete with traditional silver chemical prints.

good luck.

[quantum-x]

There's the other aspect - if you go mainstream, chances are you're going to have to 'sell out' to some extent.

For example - I know the photos I take are half decent, but there's no client that would want them. If I wanted to go mainstream, I'd have to start shooting interiors or wedding photos or some crap, and look at any of those guy's folios - it pisses me off that they charge AND get paid so much for so little.

Fuck that.

[2HousePlague]

Hot topic --

2hp

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by quantum-x

There's the other aspect - if you go mainstream, chances are you're going to have to 'sell out' to some extent.

For example - I know the photos I take are half decent, but there's no client that would want them. If I wanted to go mainstream, I'd have to start shooting interiors or wedding photos or some crap, and look at any of those guy's folios - it pisses me off that they charge AND get paid so much for so little.

Fuck that.

Bingo!

I constantly get people asking, "Do you shoot weddings?" No. So they ask me why not? And I always say simply because its a genuine pain in the ass dealing with people and their unrealistic expectations. Plus there's far too many variables I wouldn't have full control over that can lead to potential disaster and a bunch of pissed off people in the end.

Shooting interiors...now that may be an area of interest...perhaps a venue to explore eventually.

Partially selling out may be an option - if it attains the overall goal in the end. Certainly time will tell...

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by latinasojourn

there are many venues to sell scenic photography if what you do is unique and very high quality.

galleries, consignment deals with galleries, art fairs, wholesaling to custom frame shops, event vanity photography, etc. etc. etc

but your work must be original, unique, and superb to make any serious money.

the easy part is running around with high rez equip and capturing mother nature when the light is just right.

the tricky part is selling it.

and raw talent ain't enough---90% of your talent must be in marketing.

clue: ansel adams was mostly a pauper when he was alive.

I agree in certain aspects. But I wouldn't agree that the easy part is "running around capturing mother nature...". That somewhat belittles the entire process. Sure, any idiot can run around and capture a few lucky shots, but it takes a lot of work, stamina and experience to do it consistently. You don't just pack your dlsr and wander around waiting for the 'blue hour' to light something scenic. Someone's likely been there/done that several times ahead of you.

I quite agree that marketing is a very large aspect of being successfully profitable, though. As well, marketing can also cost a fair bit of coin and time...even if you're promotionally savvy. Sometimes luck can also play a factor. Being in the right place at the right time - meeting up with the right person with contacts, etc. Having your work exposed to someone who's in a position to provide further help and assistance.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by Kristian

Have you spent 15 years of practice and erudition, only to exhibit your art in a mall? I could give you a million ideas and I don't live and breath photography. My advice : combine your talent with imagination and don't imitate, lead the way.

No, my fifteen years has been in the adult industry - I've only been doing scenic photography for about the last five of those years. But I've packed in a LOT of photography and logged extensive travel for doing photography in the past half decade.

I mentioned the possibility of a mall kiosk since I know of another fellow photographer who sells his framed prints in a local mall - and after talking with both him and his wife several times, he seems to do quite well for himself with the kiosk. He only rents the space twice a year, and spends the rest of the time building up his portfolio of work. And modesty aside, his photos...although quite good, aren't quite the same calibre as what I do (he's seen my work and says the same thing). I admire that he's taken the initiative step of publically exhibiting his work the way he does, though.

[Kristian]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

No, my fifteen years has been in the adult industry - I've only been doing scenic photography for about the last five of those years. But I've packed in a LOT of photography and logged extensive travel for doing photography in the past half decade.

I mentioned the possibility of a mall kiosk since I know of another fellow photographer who sells his framed prints in a local mall - and after talking with both him and his wife several times, he seems to do quite well for himself with the kiosk. He only rents the space twice a year, and spends the rest of the time building up his portfolio of work. And modesty aside, his photos...although quite good, aren't quite the same calibre as what I do (he's seen my work and says the same thing). I admire that he's taken the initiative step of publically exhibiting his work the way he does, though.

I that case, I would follow your passion. Use the mall kiosk for dependable income and then turn your talents to a book. I strongly disagree with 2HousePlague's belief that people are desensitized; they've been saying that ever since Viet Nam. You need a winning concept for a book. I guarantee that if you can come up with an imaginative idea, that alone will elevate you above 99% of others who seek to be published. You might look to the adult industry for an idea; just don't make it pornographic. I have a huge respect for artists, coming from a family of them, so I wish you the best of luck.