PATENT TROLL ALERT: attention affiliate programs

[FightThisPatent]

There is a company called BTG that has acquired a patent that they believe is the basis for affiliate programs.

The link to the patent is here:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...&RS=PN/5712979

The cliff notes version is that if you have a link like http://www.sponsorwebsite.com/cgi/af...ram.cgi?id=123

which the receiving end uses the id number to identify you as the affiliate, and to redirect the web browser to whatever page and track the stats....

BTG is currently suing Amazon and some other companies. Barnes and Nobles already settled.

BTG could target the adult internet space, and thats the reason why assistance for prior art to help amazon squash this patent is going to help everyone in the end.

What is needed is some kind of evidence that proves that the affiliate linking codes were around prior to sept 1995.

Most likely there isn't much documentation, so there might need to be more of "expert witness"... having checks made to affiliates would certainly be some tangible proof of an affiliate linking system.

The attorneys for amazon have already chatted with CE.

I just chatted with Dave (sextoy), but he wasn't in operation early enough.

I have seen the name Robin passed around before as being the original guy who did the first affiliate program.

I am looking for contacts and evidence.

I am not seeking any consulting fees from amazon attorneys in this matter. My first thought, was let them take care of their own battles since mainstream didn't step in to help with the Acacia issue.. but then i thought about it a little more, and it's their money going to pay attorneys to defeat this patent that could eventually target the adult biz.. so that in itself is the motiviation to help amazon.

Amazon has alot of very questionable patents themselves, but they haven't come out swinging against other companies, and they are clearly up at bat on this patent infringement case.

Any info would be greatly appreciated. contact me via email (brandon - at - fightthepatent.com), or icq 52741957.

Amazon will be going to court end of January, so they are in the 11th hour. They have been searching for prior art for the last year, and never approached the adult space... which naturally should be the first place to look.

All information is held confidential and i can continue the conversation offline with those that have the silver bullets.


Fight the Patent!

[Raven]

So another acacia is going for the gusto?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

OH man...

How many times do I have to say it.

I invented Affiliate Program concepts, or Ron did it can not be decided yet.

[seeric]

i think evan should sue them.

[Pipecrew]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

OH man...

How many times do I have to say it.

I invented Affiliate Program concepts, or Ron did it can not be decided yet.

Judging on how both of you ended up, I am going to have to go with Ron on this one.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Raven

So another acacia is going for the gusto?

They should have learned from Acacia, and trolled through the adult internet space.... stay away from the HomeGrownVideo and Video Secrets, Lightsppeds, AEBN, hotmovies.com, etc.. and go after those that settled with Acacia.

I am sure tho this time around, many would have fought instead of settled.. fortunately, BTG has instead gone for the "high hanging fruit" with deeper pockets.

They must think they really got a winner to take on amazon, but clearly, the people who filed this patent copied what was going on in adult.



Fight the trolls!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

i think evan should sue them.

This patent app might pre-date their patent... already got an email out to Michael.


Fight the datestamp!

[Major (Tom)]

didnt amazon try to sue claiming they owned the shopping cart idea?

duke

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

How many times do I have to say it.

I invented Affiliate Program concepts,...........

great, then send me the business plan, technical schematics, or napkin doodling that can support your claim


Fight the paper trail!

[Bama]

Man, that's going back a ways and going pre Ron will be tough.

Have you tried contacting Amateur Harcore?
Smutland?
Babylon?

[tony286]

brandon thanks for the info but unfortunately 80% percent will rollover.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

didnt amazon try to sue claiming they owned the shopping cart idea?

ya.. .. amazon even tried to patent the affiliate program themselves, but failed since they were too late in their filing.

that's why at first, i was like, let amazon fight their own battles, but since they do have the money to fight, and will fight, better that they knock this one down, instead of buying the patent and then maybe using it to corner the online affiliate marketing space.

Fight the all your affiliate links are belong to us!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Bama

Man, that's going back a ways and going pre Ron will be tough.

Have you tried contacting Amateur Harcore?
Smutland?
Babylon?

i have seen many names thrown around in various posts before, but some, I don't know how to reach... So i though it be more effective to put a post out, so that those people who know the right people could contact them and direct them to me.



Fight the bell ringing!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by tony404

brandon thanks for the info but unfortunately 80% percent will rollover.

don't forget, that according to patent law, that they can also go after individual affiliates... while sponsor programs are the obvious target, but by using an affiliate link that isn't "licensed" by the sponsor program, makes you a contributory infringer.. which was the acacia-style of patent infringement targeting.


Fight the indirect infringers!

[Bama]

As far as who came out with what and when - one of the best sources (cringe) is Serge.
For actual contact info of any named people, PK is a good source.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

great, then send me the business plan, technical schematics, or napkin doodling that can support your claim


Fight the paper trail!

IN all reality I am sure it would behove you to get in contact with Ron. He might have some scribling actually, if he does not its somewhere in the volumes of stuff his guys masterminded from the early day.

My scriblings were done on an white erasable white board sometime in 1995.

[$5 submissions]

Damn...... Nothing surprises me anymore.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

IN all reality I am sure it would behove you to get in contact with Ron.

amazon attorneys have already contacted ron, but i guess they didn't get very far since they are still looking for prior art.


Fight the do not disturb!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

My scriblings were done on an white erasable white board sometime in 1995.

That's what Al Gore said but nobody seemed to believe him.


Fight the pun!

[JFK]

Good Luck Brandon

[Manowar]

bump for a good cause

[NoComments]

Originally Posted by Bama

As far as who came out with what and when - one of the best sources (cringe) is Serge.
For actual contact info of any named people, PK is a good source.

Al Hadhazy got it before Ron, came up with the affiliate program in 1996.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by JFK

Good Luck Brandon

Maybe you have some pictures of people standing in front of a white board that described linking to affiliate programs?



Fight the 1000 words!

[HairToStay]

I had a sponsor program on one of my sites back in 1994-95, but I don't remember specifically what date I signed up. They disappeared but later resurfaced as ClickCash.

I have a banner from that program but I can skim through archive.org to see if I can dig out the actual code and the date.

They only archived it as of 1/98, sorry, but that banner is still on the site but only goes to tracker.exe and a WebPower IP.

I'll look around and see if I can find anything else

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Winetalk

Al Hadhazy got it before Ron, came up with the affiliate program in 1996.

heya serge, problem is, this patent has a filing date of sept 1995.


Fight the close but no cigar!

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Well I know what I did in 95...

But I cant prove it!

Damn...

Serge pass the wine.

[montel]

hmm hope these guys get taken out

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

amazon attorneys have already contacted ron, but i guess they didn't get very far since they are still looking for prior art.


Fight the do not disturb!

Ehhehe

They probably didnt offer enough.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

They probably didnt offer enough.

amazon could certainly offer them enough to just buy the patent out and do what they will, if prior art can't be found to refute what we all to believe a no brainer copycat from adult biz.


Fight the counteroffer!

[NoComments]

well,
my proggy haven't violated no patents,
my affiliates were:
http://cotac.com/~knight/DannyCox/
etc, etc, etc
and as far as I know Danny AND his Cox are public domain.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Winetalk

well,
my proggy haven't violated no patents,
my affiliates were:
http://cotac.com/~knight/DannyCox/

i believe that technically, your link that redirected someone to hahahahahahahahahahahahaha would fall under this patent




Fight the doh!

[FightThisPatent]

looks like you can't use winetalk + .com in a sentence, or else you get the hahahhahahaha.. ... clever serge on the redirect


Fight the hahhahahahaah!

[NoComments]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

amazon could certainly offer them enough to just buy the patent out and do what they will, if prior art can't be found to refute what we all to believe a no brainer copycat from adult biz.


Fight the counteroffer!

you are correct. The affiliate program was creation of adult business first. I remember almost to the day how affiliate programs came into adult world.

I was listening to the radio, Bloomberg, aroung May of 1996 and I heard report that Yahoo was charging Procter and Gamble 5 cents per click thru on their banners. I e-mailed Al Hadhazy and offered him to pay COTAC 5 cents per click instead of fixed weekly rates. Everybody were happy for a week, 'til his and my counts started drifting apart. To make the long story short,
he launched his first affiliate proggy in August and paid per click.

[NoComments]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

i believe that technically, your link that redirected someone to hahahahahahahahahahahahaha would fall under this patent




Fight the doh!

no, it won't, as my affiliate is identified by NAME and NOT by number.

[NoComments]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

looks like you can't use winetalk + .com in a sentence, or else you get the hahahhahahaha.. ... clever serge on the redirect


Fight the hahhahahahaah!

I can't?
yes, I can,
I use
http://talkwine.com
and few 182,034 orphan domains registered with Directnic,
it always pays to have friends in high places
;)

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Winetalk

no, it won't, as my affiliate is identified by NAME and NOT by number.

the patent addresses an identifier tacked on to the end of the URL.. which could be a number or a name or a letter, or a folder, etc ..anything that causes a redirect based upon the constructed URL.


Fight the details schmetails!

[Doc911]

Didn't Validate use a system similar to that back in 91?

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Winetalk

....I remember almost to the day how affiliate programs came into adult world.

if only emmaculate conception of ideas could be documented!


Fight the idea birth certificate!

[Trixxxia]

Originally Posted by Winetalk

no, it won't, as my affiliate is identified by NAME and NOT by number.

Serge, although the document says 'identification number' the diagrams distinguish the affiliate as /CM1/ in other words letters and number and by directory *either that or I haven't looked at or understood all the diagrams.

Image/Sample I'm looking at

Also, the diagrams are dated January 27th, 1998 is that wrong?

[BluMedia]

Well here we go again everybody get their checkbooks ready cause I didn't pay arcadia a fucking penny and this piece of shit place won't get any of my money either. But you guys that paid Arcadia feel free to pay these guys too and the next one that comes out and the next one.

Mark

[toddler]

Hmm...what is the definition of url in regards to the patent? One could argue that a URL specifically redirects based upon the content of the URL. Or that any CGI based program would therefore violate said patent, as the webserver does a certain thing based upon the url that is input.

Its an interesting case though...I'll be curious to see if anyone actually has docs/checks that date back that far. Come on you super cool 'i've been doing this '94' fuckers...prove it!

[Trixxxia]

Google says Linkshare is the oldest affiliate program - 1996 it was founded but perhaps the idea and programming was done before?

BTW - from their site:
Since launching the Internet's first Affiliate Network, LinkShare has:

Created the largest network of affiliates of any program provider - over 10 million partnerships.
Been granted US Patent No. 5,991,740 for our proprietary affiliate tracking technology.
Announced an investment from Mitsui & Co., Ltd. and a joint venture in the Japanese market.
Become the first provider to achieve sustained profitability.
Been named the number one fastest growing technology company in the NY area 2 years in a row in the Deloitte and Touche Fast 50 program.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by TopBucksTrixxxia

Google says Linkshare is the oldest affiliate program - 1996 it was founded but perhaps the idea and programming was done before?

good digging... the problem is that the filing date for their patent is June 10, 1997....

maybe adult copied mainstream on this one??


Fight the things that make you go hmmmmmm!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by TopBucksTrixxxia

Also, the diagrams are dated January 27th, 1998 is that wrong?

It's the original filing date that counts of Sept 1995... took them a while to get the patent approved and they added on additional info to the patent during the course of the patent examinations.


Fight the never ending story!

[FightThisPatent]

Was anyone an affiliate to a program (adult or mainstream) backin 94-95?

You should have received a 1099. That might provide a lead as to what websites were around back then doing affiliate programs, that then could be looked up in the wayback machine or searching in newsgroups.


Fight the lets do the timewarp again!

[llporter]

Here we go again

[FightThisPatent]

They followed up with patent #5,717,860.. probabably to better fine tune it where they had any shortcomings from the first patent at:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...&RS=PN/5712979


Fight the sequel!

[butterflybucks]

What's next? Patents for message board posts? Patents for 'LOL'

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by butterflybucks

What's next? Patents for message board posts? Patents for 'LOL'

Amazon has an approved patent for user-posted mesages/comments about a product.

when you look at a product on amazon, and read those notes at the bottom, yup, they got that patented.

and i saw some patents and trademarks on emoticons somewhere :-)


Fight the patent this!

[webgurl]

Thankyou B for the news !! yaaaaargh its neverending .