HDV content providers are selling you a dream. - GoFuckYourself.com

Matt 26z · 01-01-2006, 03:31 PM

I have noticed several made-for-internet content providers claiming HDV.

First of all, anyone selling true HDV source content to webmasters is selling trips to space before the orbiting hotel is even built. That stuff is NOT usable to it's fullest online potential yet, and it won't be anytime in the near future.

Secondly, when you take HDV source video and encode it for realistic filesizes to download or stream, guess what? It's not HDV anymore. You CAN NOT just wave the HDV banner anytime you want. HDV is not subjective from viewer to viewer. It's either HDV or it's not. I have *NEVER* seen a HDV video offered online (streaming or downloading) outside of "Oh oh, look what's coming!" type board threads.

Real world online commercial use? Forget about it.

Yes, you hypothetically speaking could offer downloadable HDV. Unfortunately we are talking about files that are gigantic. You can replicate cable TV quality on full computer screen at just under 20 megabytes per minute of video.

I don't know how much it would take for HDV. You tell me. I've never tried it, but I think an accurate estimate would be 60-75 MB per minute to produce a "good enough" full screen HDV file. Something good enough for people to believe is true HDV.

Thing is, there are very few surfers who want to download a 300 MB file for a 15 minute scene just to get full screen TV quality. Once you get into HDV, we're probably talking around 1 gig for a single scene.

Streaming it...

In another thread I stated it would be a decade before we are streaming HDV video. iAlien (who is in the HDV business) said "Bull fucking shit. I give it 6 months to a year."

The only way surfers will be streaming HDV within the next year is if all the major ISP's upgrade their download speeds beyond belief in that time. It's not realistic. It's not realistic to say they'll do it in the next 5 years either.

We're talking the equivalent of offering streaming broadband content in 1998 while everyone was still on dialup. The only difference is that the mega download speeds needed to stream HDV won't be available to everyone as quickly.

There are only two ways we will be downloading or streaming HDV within the next 5 years. There will either have to be drastic line speed increases for the average surfer, or major advancements in encoding technology. I'm not expecting either on the level in which we need them.

chupachups · 01-01-2006, 03:34 PM

I concur, most of it is indeed unrealistic dreaming...

Theo · 01-01-2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Thing is, there are very few surfers who want to download a 300 MB file for a 15 minute scene just to get full screen TV quality. Once you get into HDV, we're probably talking around 1 gig for a single scene.

our experience shows the opposite

Matt 26z · 01-01-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

our experience shows the opposite

Oh, I would certainly agree that there are surfers out there who are willing to take 300 MB files. If I was downloading something that I had a great interest in, I'd take the high quality 300 MB file over the 50 MB lesser quality version... But everyone draws the line somewhere.

How many surfers will routinely download a 900 MB file for a 15 minute HDV scene?

Theo · 01-01-2006, 03:57 PM

yes,900mb for 15min movie is extensive,but you can encode the videos to a degree the quality will be nothing close to normal videos and still the filesizes remain acceptable by the vast majority of members. We have been using them for several months right now and our sites have forum where members post, the only comments we got was why we didn't upgrade to this quality earlier.

About HDV technical term you are right.

Mutt · 01-01-2006, 04:15 PM

true - there is nothing different quality wise between a movie shot in HD encoded at 2000kbps and any other well shot movie encoded at 2000kbps - no discernible difference - right now it's just a marketing gimmick. true HD web videos would be huge files sizes.

latinasojourn · 01-01-2006, 04:20 PM

well, your hypothesis is correct except for this:

dramatically higher surfer speeds for the western world are just around the corner, fiber optic, high speed wireless, it is coming, and very fast.

18-24 months. and the guys that will have it will have the ability to buy quality content, and they will eschew the lower quality stuff.

so i won't knock the guys shooting with HD cameras, they will have footage in the can ready to encode for these higher speeds.

the truth is, the highest cost in producing content is the model fees---so it is prudent to get that original data captured with state of the art hardware anytime you can---this gives your content a much longer shelf life.

there will ALWAYS be a use for high technical QUALITY, because shortly the world WILL be ready to accept that.

BlazingBucks_Ryan · 01-01-2006, 04:31 PM

I think you will be suprised about the pace of increasing download speeds offered by ISPs - A Couple years back everything was just hitting 1-3 mbps ... Now the local telco companies who are all but shot if they don't convert to providing internet/teclo (VOIP) bundles are providing 10mbps connections and I'm talking in a town of 40K by a town of 120K or so ... So I can only imagine the same sort of stuff will be going on in Chicago etc.

I think in 5-10 years 100 mbps connections to every home will be very very feasible, and many more things will be streamlined then you would have ever imagined. Cable, Telephone, and Internet will all come through the same pipe using the same connection is my guess... And there will be alot of cable-teclo consolidationg where we haven't seen it already.

Not arguing against your HD statement - I do however think you are going to be suprised with the increase in download speeds offered to consumers, especially if they are willign t pay say... $200 a month for their connection versus the standard $50 a month for 3-10mbps currently being charged (even though it isn't a TRUE 3-10 mbps)

Interesting Times ...

SirMoby · 01-01-2006, 05:07 PM

Anyone trying to sell High Def streaming videos is either high or they going to try to sell you beach front in Phoenix. However, if it's done right, HD can be usable for download.

HD 720p can be compressed to about 20 to 30 Meg per minute if things are prepared before shooting starts. Backgrounds with solid colors compress far better then most multicolor (flower beds, woods, grass) outdoor settings. Closeups also compress very well. Anyone that worried about image sizes a few years ago knows this. The same is true for video. Surfers will be happy to download 300 to 500 meg videos of thier favorite starlets.

Forward thinking studios are going to be producing content with HD equipment and also paying attention to how they're shooting videos. When the market is ready for the content they'll have a large inventory already in place and site owners can start buying it and taking adavantage of it now.

tony286 · 01-01-2006, 05:12 PM

Very good thread also just because faster surfing rates are coming doesnt mean people will buy them fuck they advertise netzero on tv which is fucking dialup lol

blackfeet · 01-01-2006, 05:16 PM

i wouldn't have a problem downloading files to my computer that open instantly once downloaded.

i'm sure surfers feel the same way.

Theo · 01-01-2006, 05:26 PM

yes,streaming it is madness hehe

bellskids · 01-01-2006, 07:00 PM

my cable speed has increased 4 times in less than 1 year. we are now on 10mb downstream. A 5 gig dvd image takes about 75 minutes to download at that speed. A couple of hundred meg literally takes a matter of minutes.

01-01-2006, 03:31 PM	#1
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	HDV content providers are selling you a dream. I have noticed several made-for-internet content providers claiming HDV. First of all, anyone selling true HDV source content to webmasters is selling trips to space before the orbiting hotel is even built. That stuff is NOT usable to it's fullest online potential yet, and it won't be anytime in the near future. Secondly, when you take HDV source video and encode it for realistic filesizes to download or stream, guess what? It's not HDV anymore. You CAN NOT just wave the HDV banner anytime you want. HDV is not subjective from viewer to viewer. It's either HDV or it's not. I have NEVER seen a HDV video offered online (streaming or downloading) outside of "Oh oh, look what's coming!" type board threads. Real world online commercial use? Forget about it. Yes, you hypothetically speaking could offer downloadable HDV. Unfortunately we are talking about files that are gigantic. You can replicate cable TV quality on full computer screen at just under 20 megabytes per minute of video. I don't know how much it would take for HDV. You tell me. I've never tried it, but I think an accurate estimate would be 60-75 MB per minute to produce a "good enough" full screen HDV file. Something good enough for people to believe is true HDV. Thing is, there are very few surfers who want to download a 300 MB file for a 15 minute scene just to get full screen TV quality. Once you get into HDV, we're probably talking around 1 gig for a single scene. Streaming it... In another thread I stated it would be a decade before we are streaming HDV video. iAlien (who is in the HDV business) said "Bull fucking shit. I give it 6 months to a year." The only way surfers will be streaming HDV within the next year is if all the major ISP's upgrade their download speeds beyond belief in that time. It's not realistic. It's not realistic to say they'll do it in the next 5 years either. We're talking the equivalent of offering streaming broadband content in 1998 while everyone was still on dialup. The only difference is that the mega download speeds needed to stream HDV won't be available to everyone as quickly. There are only two ways we will be downloading or streaming HDV within the next 5 years. There will either have to be drastic line speed increases for the average surfer, or major advancements in encoding technology. I'm not expecting either on the level in which we need them.

01-01-2006, 03:34 PM	#2
chupachups Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden/Spain you sum bitch! Posts: 6,576	I concur, most of it is indeed unrealistic dreaming... __________________

01-01-2006, 04:15 PM	#6
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	true - there is nothing different quality wise between a movie shot in HD encoded at 2000kbps and any other well shot movie encoded at 2000kbps - no discernible difference - right now it's just a marketing gimmick. true HD web videos would be huge files sizes. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

01-01-2006, 04:31 PM	#8
BlazingBucks_Ryan Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 203	I think you will be suprised about the pace of increasing download speeds offered by ISPs - A Couple years back everything was just hitting 1-3 mbps ... Now the local telco companies who are all but shot if they don't convert to providing internet/teclo (VOIP) bundles are providing 10mbps connections and I'm talking in a town of 40K by a town of 120K or so ... So I can only imagine the same sort of stuff will be going on in Chicago etc. I think in 5-10 years 100 mbps connections to every home will be very very feasible, and many more things will be streamlined then you would have ever imagined. Cable, Telephone, and Internet will all come through the same pipe using the same connection is my guess... And there will be alot of cable-teclo consolidationg where we haven't seen it already. Not arguing against your HD statement - I do however think you are going to be suprised with the increase in download speeds offered to consumers, especially if they are willign t pay say... $200 a month for their connection versus the standard $50 a month for 3-10mbps currently being charged (even though it isn't a TRUE 3-10 mbps) Interesting Times ... __________________ BLAZING BUCKS - Leading The Fight Against Saturation! 1000's Of Pics For Your TGP Submissions, Pre-Built Free Sites, and Dynamically Changing Tours Assuring Your Traffic Is ALWAYS Converting The Best It Possibly Can! ICQ : 253483920 or [email protected]

01-01-2006, 07:00 PM	#13
bellskids Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 558	my cable speed has increased 4 times in less than 1 year. we are now on 10mb downstream. A 5 gig dvd image takes about 75 minutes to download at that speed. A couple of hundred meg literally takes a matter of minutes. __________________ http://www.lunascam.com/partners - HOT all natural pro dancing Spanish cam girl with the most amazing all natural breasts. These puppies sell like no other. 50/50 revshare. Converts awesome on Teen, Latin, Big Breasts, Amateur and Webcam traffic.

01-01-2006, 03:57 PM	#5
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	yes,900mb for 15min movie is extensive,but you can encode the videos to a degree the quality will be nothing close to normal videos and still the filesizes remain acceptable by the vast majority of members. We have been using them for several months right now and our sites have forum where members post, the only comments we got was why we didn't upgrade to this quality earlier. About HDV technical term you are right.

01-01-2006, 04:20 PM	#7
latinasojourn Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,191	well, your hypothesis is correct except for this: dramatically higher surfer speeds for the western world are just around the corner, fiber optic, high speed wireless, it is coming, and very fast. 18-24 months. and the guys that will have it will have the ability to buy quality content, and they will eschew the lower quality stuff. so i won't knock the guys shooting with HD cameras, they will have footage in the can ready to encode for these higher speeds. the truth is, the highest cost in producing content is the model fees---so it is prudent to get that original data captured with state of the art hardware anytime you can---this gives your content a much longer shelf life. there will ALWAYS be a use for high technical QUALITY, because shortly the world WILL be ready to accept that.

01-01-2006, 05:07 PM	#9
SirMoby Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 583	Anyone trying to sell High Def streaming videos is either high or they going to try to sell you beach front in Phoenix. However, if it's done right, HD can be usable for download. HD 720p can be compressed to about 20 to 30 Meg per minute if things are prepared before shooting starts. Backgrounds with solid colors compress far better then most multicolor (flower beds, woods, grass) outdoor settings. Closeups also compress very well. Anyone that worried about image sizes a few years ago knows this. The same is true for video. Surfers will be happy to download 300 to 500 meg videos of thier favorite starlets. Forward thinking studios are going to be producing content with HD equipment and also paying attention to how they're shooting videos. When the market is ready for the content they'll have a large inventory already in place and site owners can start buying it and taking adavantage of it now.

01-01-2006, 05:12 PM	#10
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Very good thread also just because faster surfing rates are coming doesnt mean people will buy them fuck they advertise netzero on tv which is fucking dialup lol

01-01-2006, 05:16 PM	#11
blackfeet Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 589	i wouldn't have a problem downloading files to my computer that open instantly once downloaded. i'm sure surfers feel the same way.

01-01-2006, 05:26 PM	#12
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	yes,streaming it is madness hehe