If you EVER buy design

[DamageX]

You may wanna get together with others who buy design and put together a designer blacklist. You may start with the designers who advocate for a client blacklist in this thread.

Oh and hit me up if you need design work done. I can probably squeeze you in by the end of next week.

[$tandaman]

Need work that bad huh?

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by $tandaman

Need work that bad huh?

Another sign of professionalism? First blacklist clients, then try degrading the ones pointing out that you're digging your own grave? Like, whoa!

[DutchTeenCash]

The blacklist idea doesnt work imho but bashing competition is bad for business, you never know when you need them

plus you dont need that, your designs rock

[$tandaman]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Another sign of professionalism? First blacklist clients, then try degrading the ones pointing out that you're digging your own grave? Like, whoa!

You are very professional sir, looking to bash on someone else's idea.. don't like it, don't join the club.. oh wait.. nobody would let you anyway!

I think the idea is great, and i fully support it, i got enough to worry about then dealing with deadbeat clients, and i've got a few over the last few years, and i would be HAPPY to save some time for other designers, if it saves them from being raped..

Glad you don't see it that way mr. Professional

[$tandaman]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Another sign of professionalism? First blacklist clients, then try degrading the ones pointing out that you're digging your own grave? Like, whoa!

How am i degrading ya? YOU started a new thread, couldn't keep it in the same place.. hence YOU need the attention.. and the business.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by thinkx

The blacklist idea doesnt work imho but bashing competition is bad for business, you never know when you need them

plus you dont need that, your designs rock

Thanks for the good words. However, I'm not bashing them. I'm just pointing out for design clients that I will not have anything to do with such a blacklist, therefore I am directing them to that thread to see that I was arguing against it. As were AlienQ, eroswebmaster, LadyMischief, sextoyking and a few others. All of whom have been around for a while and have a good track record with serving clients. You cannot treat your clients like dirt, regardless of how demanding they are. In fact, I believe that demanding clients are very good for business, since they keep you on your toes and help you improve.

[BradM]

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by $tandaman

You are very professional sir, looking to bash on someone else's idea.. don't like it, don't join the club.. oh wait.. nobody would let you anyway!

I think the idea is great, and i fully support it, i got enough to worry about then dealing with deadbeat clients, and i've got a few over the last few years, and i would be HAPPY to save some time for other designers, if it saves them from being raped..

Glad you don't see it that way mr. Professional

Originally Posted by $tandaman

How am i degrading ya? YOU started a new thread, couldn't keep it in the same place.. hence YOU need the attention.. and the business.

Thank you for the business you will be sending my way.

[$tandaman]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Thanks for the good words. However, I'm not bashing them. I'm just pointing out for design clients that I will not have anything to do with such a blacklist, therefore I am directing them to that thread to see that I was arguing against it. As were AlienQ, eroswebmaster, LadyMischief, sextoyking and a few others. All of whom have been around for a while and have a good track record with serving clients. You cannot treat your clients like dirt, regardless of how demanding they are. In fact, I believe that demanding clients are very good for business, since they keep you on your toes and help you improve.

Ever hear of 'BBB' ? it's there for a reason. Like someone mentioned, there are plenty of organizations in different industries, how should this be any different.
You don't HAVE to use the information.. it's up to you to decide of course..

[CraK]

Hey DX, don't even waste time on such things bro. Instead, start some "Would you hit it?" threads to satisfy the needs to trolls.

[JamesK2]

Good stuff bro

[LadyMischief]

The general idea of this type of thing has been around forever.. Look at Serge's famous GoodBadAndUgly site... it's nice to know who NOT to deal with, however it's all in the implimentation

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

The general idea of this type of thing has been around forever.. Look at Serge's famous GoodBadAndUgly site... it's nice to know who NOT to deal with, however it's all in the implimentation

Well said. It happens with sponsors, sure people won't like it. That's because the truth is expelled in this kind of projects.

[jonesy]

everyone fucks up once in awhile - its how the fuck up is handled is what matters most.

all this talk of blacklists on either side is a fucking joke because everyone would/could be on it in one way, shape or form.

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by jonesy

everyone fucks up once in awhile - its how the fuck up is handled is what matters most.

all this talk of blacklists on either side is a fucking joke because everyone would/could be on it in one way, shape or form.

Yep, therefore it's the designers choice to either approve or decline an order

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by JamesK

Well said. It happens with sponsors, sure people won't like it. That's because the truth is expelled in this kind of projects.

The truth? The simple truth is that you're choosing to discriminate among clients on simple hearsaying. Who's to say that a certain designer won't have a stick up his ass one morning because his wife didn't blow him and decide to be an asshole with the client, resulting in the client becoming a pain in the ass FOR THAT DESIGNER? Which in turn puts the client on the blacklist? Sorry dude, it's simple discrimination, nothing else nothing more, and it's only because you're not prepaired to alter your business model to cater to your market's NEEDS. You'd rather have the market cater to yours, which is incredibly idiotic. Look around, tons of designers around, start turning away clients and you'll be out of business before you know it.

[Jace]

just searching for clients and designers on the pages of GFY is enough enough to never need any one site....GFY has all the info you will ever need

here you go right, in a 30 second search I found this
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=495875

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Jace

just searching for clients and designers on the pages of GFY is enough enough to never need any one site....GFY has all the info you will ever need

here you go right, in a 30 second search I found this
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=495875

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by DamageX

The truth? The simple truth is that you're choosing to discriminate among clients on simple hearsaying. Who's to say that a certain designer won't have a stick up his ass one morning because his wife didn't blow him and decide to be an asshole with the client, resulting in the client becoming a pain in the ass FOR THAT DESIGNER? Which in turn puts the client on the blacklist? Sorry dude, it's simple discrimination, nothing else nothing more, and it's only because you're not prepaired to alter your business model to cater to your market's NEEDS. You'd rather have the market cater to yours, which is incredibly idiotic. Look around, tons of designers around, start turning away clients and you'll be out of business before you know it.

Trust me, you're acting like every client will be scared of ordering something at me right now. That won't be the case and it's not even a risk for anybody.

We're publishing the scammers and clients with extremely bad attitude against MULTIPLE designers.

Tell me bro, why would that be wrong, why would any decent client would not want to order at any of us participating on this project? How come not a single client of us had a bad response on this?

Designers fuck up, clients fuck up, but that's totally not involved in this case.

[Mitch Cumstein]

The BBB protects the consumer... GB&U protected the affiliate who in essence is the "client" or consumer of the sponsor programs that it listed.

If anything there should be a blacklist of designers that clients should not waste time or money on... NOT a blacklist of clients... that is backwards.

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by thinkx

The blacklist idea doesnt work imho but bashing competition is bad for business, you never know when you need them

plus you dont need that, your designs rock

Bashing competition? Like envisionext said, deadbeat cliens are not competition. So far design studios contacted me that make excellent designers. Envisionext, Nasty Jack, Team31 etc they all make top notch designs but there's always some clients that are not good for any designer

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by Mitch Cumstein

The BBB protects the consumer... GB&U protected the affiliate who in essence is the "client" or consumer of the sponsor programs that it listed.

If anything there should be a blacklist of designers that clients should not waste time or money on... NOT a blacklist of clients... that is backwards.

So basically you're saying clients can't do anything wrong?

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by JamesK

Trust me, you're acting like every client will be scared of ordering something at me right now. That won't be the case and it's not even a risk for anybody.

We're publishing the scammers and clients with extremely bad attitude against MULTIPLE designers.

Designer #1 has a bad day and a difference of opinion with a client, who, by the designer's standards, turns into a pain in the ass. Now designer #1 tells the collective about this client, who will now turn to someone else. Should he turn from someone from this collective, they will have already judged him, based on the saying of designer #1, who's a trusted member. So the poor client gets to be a pain in the ass with another designer, who will treat him like a deadbeat from the very start.

Originally Posted by JamesK

Tell me bro, why would that be wrong, why would any decent client would not want to order at any of us participating on this project? How come not a single client of us had a bad response on this?

They wouldn't want to order because of the above scenario and they haven't had a bad response on this because they haven't realized it yet.

[basschick]

don't fool yourself. another writer - someone who is usually darned reliable - told me not to do business with this one client as he didn't pay. well, he paid me generously in advance, many times.

i don't know if the client failed to pay others, but he paid me thousands of dollars plus sent me some good referrals. if i had taken another writer's claims as facts, i'd have missed out. and i've never heard anyone else talk shit about that client - just the one writer.

Originally Posted by JamesK

Well said. It happens with sponsors, sure people won't like it. That's because the truth is expelled in this kind of projects.

[wdforty]

Hell, I got paid by Steve Goldman.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by JamesK

We're publishing the scammers and clients with extremely bad attitude against MULTIPLE designers.

Apart from anything else, if you actually stick to that rule, I suspect your list will be very short. I'm also interested in what constitutes a "bad attitude"? Would that include someone who wants completion on time; work done to the standard of other designs in your portfolio; reasonably prompt responses to emails or whatever? Seriously, one of the tiresome but unavoidable aspects of dealing with clients is that many will not conform to your ideal profile. The whole point of the cliché "the customer is always right" is that sellers conform to customers' expectations, not the other way around.

It's a sensible aim to seek to cooperate in certain areas with your competitors. As this industry matures, it will surely generate a designers' guild, graphic artists' association, or some such. But I guarantee the first successful organization will focus, not on weeding out dodgy customers, but rather on raising the standards of its members.

Sure you will be caught by a flakey webmaster from time to time. That happens in any busiiness and there are ways a group can limit that somewhat. But right now professional designers (professional anybody come to that) are losing far more money because of webmasters who talk among themselves and sometimes come to the boards after getting p*ssed off with your less-than-professional competitors.

[fris]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Another sign of professionalism? First blacklist clients, then try degrading the ones pointing out that you're digging your own grave? Like, whoa!

i wasnt very fond of envensionnext either, once he said 1500$ for a blog design, hey i could spend that much on a paysite.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by jayeff

Apart from anything else, if you actually stick to that rule, I suspect your list will be very short. I'm also interested in what constitutes a "bad attitude"? Would that include someone who wants completion on time; work done to the standard of other designs in your portfolio; reasonably prompt responses to emails or whatever? Seriously, one of the tiresome but unavoidable aspects of dealing with clients is that many will not conform to your ideal profile. The whole point of the cliché "the customer is always right" is that sellers conform to customers' expectations, not the other way around.

Spot on. You cater to the market. The market will never cater to you.

[candyflip]

That blacklist idea is that most retarded idea I've seen on this board in a while.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by candyflip

That blacklist idea is that most retarded idea I've seen on this board in a while.

And Lord knows there's a lot of retarded ideas springing up on this board...

[Hey You . . . I Know You!]

Originally Posted by candyflip

That blacklist idea is that most retarded idea I've seen on this board in a while.

What about . . . a blacklist of people who propose blacklists on GFY? That way, we will always be aware of them, ummm . . . er . . . well . . ., I guess I should say ?us? now?

[SilentKnight]

Smells like elitist.

Wanna join 'my club' and come play in the sandbox with the 'cool clique kids'?

[Cassavetes]

The design game is a very competitive one... I have worked in publishing under extremely tight deadlines for some VERY high powered clients. I have acted both as a publisher and art director myself and been on both ends of the deal... I have sometimes been the tough client and at other times been the one trying to appease and deliver the best work I can to a demanding client. It all comes down to professionalism on both sides of the deal... sure a client should expect your best work and you should do your best to deliver. Both sides should respect the needs of the other.

Over the course of the last week I have begun repping a few artists and moving into t-shirt printing etc... I have posted my services on this board and have generated some great business...

I don't believe in blacklists personally as there is ALWAYS two sides to every story and the list can most times negate to consider the opposing view or 'reason' for the dispute.

Bottom line - back up what you say you can do when delivering and make sure you have a clear understanding of what you need when ordering...

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Cassavetes

The design game is a very competitive one... I have worked in publishing under extremely tight deadlines for some VERY high powered clients. I have acted both as a publisher and art director myself and been on both ends of the deal... I have sometimes been the tough client and at other times been the one trying to appease and deliver the best work I can to a demanding client. It all comes down to professionalism on both sides of the deal... sure a client should expect your best work and you should do your best to deliver. Both sides should respect the needs of the other.

Over the course of the last week I have begun repping a few artists and moving into t-shirt printing etc... I have posted my services on this board and have generated some great business...

I don't believe in blacklists personally as there is ALWAYS two sides to every story and the list can most times negate to consider the opposing view or 'reason' for the dispute.

Bottom line - back up what you say you can do when delivering and make sure you have a clear understanding of what you need when ordering...

Although I agree with you, to a certain degree, I also must point out that far from all clients are actually professional and have a concrete idea of what they want/need. That's why they come to you, to serve them professionally and deliver your best work. They will expect, every single time, that you deliver the best you've yet done. It's up to you, as a professional, to guide them right and explain to them that certain things may work better or worse, depending on the situation at hand.

If the client is pissed off and a pain in the ass, then it's YOUR fault as a service provider, for not making things clear and making sure there are NO misunderstandings or false expectations. If you can achieve that then you won't consider any clients to be a pain in the ass.

[Platinumpimp]

Originally Posted by $tandaman

Need work that bad huh?

He's an idiot Stan, don't mention him. I talked to a client of his that he owed $3k because he was too lazy to build up an MGP to 100k (yes, thats what he used to do).

So he had to make up his debt in design work because he couldn't pay him back in cash. So I take it he is rather broke yes and possible have some sort of addiction issue.

Poor fucking loser. Instead of creating threads get your own shit handled. Deny it all you want, and make up all sorts of excuses you want. Heck, why would I come up with his. If you weren't such a loud mouthed fuck I would have actually not posted this.

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by pornopete

I see nothing wrong with somebody warning somebody else in the same industry that a client had screwed them over....

I do see a problem with somebody in the same industry as somebody trying to screw their competition over by openly telling people to black list designers.

Guess what though it is a good idea. I will start with blacklisting you.

Getting dicked over for payment is one thing, adding someone to the blacklist because they were a pain in the ass to deal with is another.

Hey DamageX...hit me up on ICQ, I need at least 1 TGP design and possibly more.

ICQ# 278138509

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Platinumpimp

He's an idiot Stan, don't mention him. I talked to a client of his that he owed $3k because he was too lazy to build up an MGP to 100k (yes, thats what he used to do).

So he had to make up his debt in design work because he couldn't pay him back in cash. So I take it he is rather broke yes and possible have some sort of addiction issue.

Poor fucking loser. Instead of creating threads get your own shit handled. Deny it all you want, and make up all sorts of excuses you want. Heck, why would I come up with his. If you weren't such a loud mouthed fuck I would have actually not posted this.

I so pity you...

[Cassavetes]

If the client is pissed off and a pain in the ass, then it's YOUR fault as a service provider, for not making things clear and making sure there are NO misunderstandings or false expectations. If you can achieve that then you won't consider any clients to be a pain in the ass.

I agree with that statement 100%

[wdforty]

At first I thought this "blacklist" was about non-paying clients (scammers)...

You?re going to ?blacklist? clients that give you a hard time? What a fucking joke.

Designers (myself included) you?re bottom of the food chain, and (in most cases) can be replaced pretty quickly.

The majority of designers out there should take what they can fuckin? get.



Now get back to work.

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by Platinumpimp

He's an idiot Stan, don't mention him. I talked to a client of his that he owed $3k because he was too lazy to build up an MGP to 100k (yes, thats what he used to do).

So he had to make up his debt in design work because he couldn't pay him back in cash. So I take it he is rather broke yes and possible have some sort of addiction issue.

Poor fucking loser. Instead of creating threads get your own shit handled. Deny it all you want, and make up all sorts of excuses you want. Heck, why would I come up with his. If you weren't such a loud mouthed fuck I would have actually not posted this.

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by wdforty

Designers (myself included) you?re bottom of the food chain

Talk about yourself dude, I'm not a fucking slave or anything.

I'm a fucking artist. Are film actors at the bottom of the food chain? No, they are needed.

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by wdforty

At first I thought this "blacklist" was about non-paying clients (scammers)...

You?re going to ?blacklist? clients that give you a hard time? What a fucking joke.

Designers won't just list clients giving them a "hard time". I wish life was that good

[JamesK2]

Originally Posted by wdforty

Hell, I got paid by Steve Goldman.

Hell, I got paid by David Stodghill.