Ftc's Tro Denied (moviepass) - GoFuckYourself.com

WDjay · 08-11-2006, 01:51 PM

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

BoyAlley · 08-11-2006, 01:52 PM

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out....

woj · 08-11-2006, 01:53 PM

wtf is tro?

Thomas N · 08-11-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

wtf is tro?

Temporary Restraining Order.

WDjay · 08-11-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

wtf is tro?

Temporary restraining order

OldSchoolJim · 08-11-2006, 01:57 PM

pocketkangaroo · 08-11-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDjay

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

Not to be a dick, but you are probably the only one who believes it isn't deceptive or unfair.

WDjay · 08-11-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Not to be a dick, but you are probably the only one who believes it isn't deceptive or unfair.

So far, me and one federal district judge.

pocketkangaroo · 08-11-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDjay

So far, me and one federal district judge.

He rejected a TRO which hardly is an endorsement of your product. It just mean he felt that it didn't cause irreperable damage to consumers at this time with the evidence presented. That is something difficult to prove when it comes to a computer that technically can be fixed.

The true vindication will come in court. Just take a look at the win-rate of the federal government in cases like this.

WDjay · 08-11-2006, 03:17 PM

anti drama bump

RawAlex · 08-11-2006, 03:18 PM

If the judge was on the same level as the senator that asked someone to "send him an internet", then you know how it got there.

I read the terms and conditions for the site, and wow...

Alex

JMM · 08-11-2006, 03:38 PM

And the spin begins.

TRO's are often denied. Judges are reluctant to close a business without due process.

I have seen your product. I have seen what the FTC can do. I'm rooting for the FTC.

crockett · 08-11-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMM

And the spin begins.

TRO's are often denied. Judges are reluctant to close a business without due process.

I have seen your product. I have seen what the FTC can do. I'm rooting for the FTC.

I agree I hope they hammer these guys..

Martin · 08-11-2006, 03:44 PM

whats the deal with moviepass that makes it shady?

Dirty F · 08-11-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDjay

We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it.

JD · 08-11-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franck

damn man. you must be a mind reader! I was thinking EXACTLY that same thing

giftedtwisted · 08-11-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDjay

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

believe all you want

Love Sex · 08-11-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franck

triple that

MaDalton · 08-11-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love Sex

triple that

you can make that four

Dirty F · 08-11-2006, 04:17 PM

This guy is almost better than

bbc3826 · 08-11-2006, 04:18 PM

WOW is all I can say

I'm speechless

BoyAlley · 08-11-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franck

This guy is almost better than

Mine's bigger.

Thee Johnclave · 08-11-2006, 06:41 PM

It sure didn't take long for the FTC to come knocking on this "non-deceptive" product.

Brujah · 08-11-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicJim

Are you keeping them in your Exits while this is going on?

Quick Buck · 08-11-2006, 07:43 PM

I don't really understand the moviepass business model... maybe because I have a mac :P

Can't people just uninstall within a few days it if they don't want to pay?

Is moviepass accused of using drive by installs? Or is it just the reminder popups that everybody is upset about?

If people are purposely downloading the application, using it, and getting free videos from it I guess I don't have a ton of sympathy since thats what the entire concept of rebills is based on.

The FTC went after maxcash for using dialers and their TRO was granted immediately. So does that mean that maxcash was worse?

Love Sex · 08-11-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

I don't really understand the moviepass business model... maybe because I have a mac :P

Can't people just uninstall within a few days it if they don't want to pay?

Its ransomware.

its advertised as FREE so you download to watch/ use it. But its really accepting a 3 day trial for software and if you dont remove it your forced into a contract. It pops until you pay for the removal.

Taken from there terms of service
2. HOW IT WORKS
BY PARTICIPATING IN THE MOVIEPASS MEDIAPIPE FREE TRIAL OFFER THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE WILL ENABLE YOU TO ACCESS THE AVAILABLE CONTENT FOR THE PERIOD OF TIME SPECIFIED ON THE ADVERTISMENT YOU HAVE CLICKED THROUGH. IF YOU DO NOT EITHER CANCEL OR PROVIDE PAYMENT INFORMATION DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD OUR BILLING SOFTWARE WILL BE ENABLED UPON THE EXPIRATION OF YOUR TRIAL PERIOD. THE BILLING SOFTWARE WILL RUN ON YOUR COMPUTER, DISPLAYING POP-UP WINDOW REMINDERS THAT PROVIDE YOU WITH VARIOUS METHODS OF PAYMENT FOR THE ANNUAL LICENSE. THESE POP-UP WINDOWS WILL APPEAR MORE FREQUENTLY UNTIL YOU CHOOSE ONE OF THE PAYMENT OPTIONS AND PAY FOR THE LICENSE. THE BILLING SOFTWARE IS SOLELY DESIGNED TO PREVENT FRAUDULENT AND UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE. IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

rowan · 08-11-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love Sex

IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

First time I've ever heard of a trial that forces you to buy an annual license!

baddog · 08-11-2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDjay

So far, me and one federal district judge.

If you think the denial of a TRO means the judge has already made up his mind that you are clean you are nuts.

He is just letting a jury decide. And a jury is going to hang you guys.

marketsmart · 08-11-2006, 08:29 PM

i am all about free markets, creative ideas, inventive business models.... i do think that moviepass is deceptive at the least... sorry moviepass but you will lose this case in court...

the ftc has a good track record of only taking on cases they can win... the tro rejection doesnt mean much...

i wish you the best of luck but i wouldnt be buying any new cars or houses if i were you....

spacedog · 08-11-2006, 08:29 PM

I can't believe you fly that banner trying to score affiliates,,,,

Who want's your measly 50 cents...

Pretty cheap if you ask me,, you collect nearly 200 bucks off the installs, but you only pay 50 cents to the webmaster..

Shit, I see thousands of programs that pay Over 50 %, you on the other hand like 1/1000th of a percent.. (ok, I'm not doing the math)

Make it $99 per install & I will send you 1/2 million installs per month

rowan · 08-11-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog

I can't believe you fly that banner trying to score affiliates,,,,

Who want's your measly 50 cents...

Pretty cheap if you ask me,, you collect nearly 200 bucks off the installs, but you only pay 50 cents to the webmaster..

Shit, I see thousands of programs that pay Over 50 %, you on the other hand like 1/1000th of a percent.. (ok, I'm not doing the math)

Make it $99 per install & I will send you 1/2 million installs per month

It's all about the money, isn't it...

Quick Buck · 08-11-2006, 10:15 PM

I'm not by any means defending them, but I took a completely clean ghosted machine and ran a test on it and I don't quite get the upset over it.

Here are the steps I went through (along with screenshots):
1) I download the installer
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step1.png

2) I run it and it shows me their terms in a browser
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step2.png

3) I agree to the terms and start watching movies
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step4.png

4) I decide to cancel and follow the link
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step5.png

5) I click once more to complete the cancellation process
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step6.png

6) It's cancelled.
http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step7.png

7) Their uninstaller didn't kill the license manager that was running, but after a bit of surfing I saw no ads, I checked a bunch of popular sites and saw no affiliate codes. So I killed it in ctrl-alt-del and then did an add/remove from my program files and there is no trace of it left on my system.

Conclusion
To download the app I had to purposely run it, and then seperately agree to ther terms which were pretty clear. In huge letters it says that if I don't cancel within 3 days I have to pay.

Cancelling my membership took a visit to a web page and two clicks to cancel.

It took me more work to download, install, agree to terms & watch the movie than to cancel the membership.

I guess if you didn't bother to even read the huge "urgent reminder" (see step 2) then it might not make sense, but it seemed more clearly disclosed than even the average cross sale imho.

Maybe I'll start seeing popups soon, but thats my report for now. Will return with more if I have any.

Love Sex · 08-11-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

7) Their uninstaller didn't kill the license manager that was running, but after a bit of surfing I saw no ads, I checked a bunch of popular sites and saw no affiliate codes. So I killed it in ctrl-alt-del and then did an add/remove from my program files and there is no trace of it left on my system.

.

would you try it again without removing the license manager manually to see see what happens then.

Im doing some research on it check out this http://www.consumeraffairs.com/enter...moviepass.html

KrisKross · 08-11-2006, 11:09 PM

Let it run on your system past the 3 day trial and then watch what happens.

Due · 08-12-2006, 04:06 AM

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their promotion methods.
But if they really where forcing people to spend $100 or something on a product they didnt want, wouldnt they have been eaten by Visa / Mastercard for chargebacks long before the FTC even noticed their product?

Rui · 08-12-2006, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMM

And the spin begins.

TRO's are often denied. Judges are reluctant to close a business without due process.

I have seen your product. I have seen what the FTC can do. I'm rooting for the FTC.

You can say that again...

Hope the FTC nails not only the company but the personal assets of those that profitted with such shady dealings

Theo · 08-12-2006, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Due

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their promotion methods.
But if they really where forcing people to spend $100 or something on a product they didnt want, wouldnt they have been eaten by Visa / Mastercard for chargebacks long before the FTC even noticed their product?

not necessarily,this is a too general assumption to make. They could process a ton of legit transactions under the same merc.account and balance the CBs.

Manowar · 08-12-2006, 05:55 AM

mad drama yo

rowan · 08-12-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

7) Their uninstaller didn't kill the license manager that was running, but after a bit of surfing I saw no ads, I checked a bunch of popular sites and saw no affiliate codes. So I killed it in ctrl-alt-del and then did an add/remove from my program files and there is no trace of it left on my system.

The only issue I have with your test is this step. Only a relatively small percentage of people who install the software would know how to do this. If you have the time, try again and omit this step. I'd be interested to see if anything [else] happens in the long run...

I can see a direct discrepancy between the T&C that Love Sex posted:

IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

and the warning page:

http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step2.png

The former says very clearly that if you cancel you're still obligated to pay.

Dirty F · 08-12-2006, 02:56 PM

I installed it a while back and halfway the install i got one virus warning after the other so i uninstalled it right away. It took me AGES to get rid of the shit that stayed on my puter. Everytime when i rebooted i got warnings and other shit telling me to install this and that.

Dirty F · 08-12-2006, 03:00 PM

Once again, as mentioned before, they redirect all firefox users to their own sponsors (so the affiliate loses 25% of their traffic to these thieves) because they can't exploit ff browser. I think that says enough.

jayeff · 08-12-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rui

Hope the FTC nails not only the company but the personal assets of those that profitted with such shady dealings

That would be a start. What would be even better is if the FTC pulled in everyone who was sending traffic too MP. They were profiting too and likely responsible for most of the surfers who ever found the site.

Eservices2k3 · 08-12-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDjay

Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday.

Are you aware of the FTC's track record? There is no beating the FTC. Unless of course you consider spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for lawyers and a settlement fee a victory. Afterwards, your business model will have to change, and you'll be monitored closely both financially and morally.

Lose-lose situation. The best advice I can give you is to go buy an industrial size tube of lube.

rowan · 08-12-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan

I can see a direct discrepancy between the T&C that Love Sex posted:

IF YOU FAIL TO PAY OR CANCEL DURING THE TRIAL PERIOD, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PURCHASE AN ANNUAL LICENSE TO THE MEDIAPIPE SOFTWARE AT THE PRICE LISTED IN THE ADVERTISEMENT YOU CLICKED THROUGH TO INITIATE INSTALLATION.

and the warning page:

http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step2.png

The former says very clearly that if you cancel you're still obligated to pay.

Actually looking at it again the meaning is ambiguous. I presume it's meant to mean:

If during the trial period, you fail to pay or fail to cancel, you are legally obligated...[...]

That sentence in their T&C needs to be rewritten.

Scootermuze · 08-12-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan

The former says very clearly that if you cancel you're still obligated to pay.

Hmm.. that reminds me of Acacia..
If you sign the contract, then we lose the case and have no trademark authority, you still have to pay us..

or to that affect...

SteveLightspeed · 08-12-2006, 05:56 PM

I've always said, someone needs to make a sponsor program using the name "bury-it-in-the-terms-and-conditions.com"

There is so much money to be made honestly on the net, why does anyone feel like they have to play all these bullshit games? It hurts the whole industry.

Steve Lightspeed

08-11-2006, 01:51 PM	#1
WDjay Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: So.Cal Posts: 381	Ftc's Tro Denied (moviepass) Webmasters Direct continues to stand behind this product. We do not believe there is anything deceptive or unfair about it. The FTC's requested TRO was denied yesterday. __________________

08-11-2006, 01:53 PM	#3
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	wtf is tro? __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

08-11-2006, 03:17 PM	#10
WDjay Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: So.Cal Posts: 381	anti drama bump __________________

08-11-2006, 03:44 PM	#14
Martin "Assassins" Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home Posts: 17,277	whats the deal with moviepass that makes it shady? __________________

08-11-2006, 06:41 PM	#23
Thee Johnclave The Billz Collectaz Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 632	It sure didn't take long for the FTC to come knocking on this "non-deceptive" product. __________________ Seeking large traffic deals. john at pptme dot com

08-11-2006, 01:52 PM	#2
BoyAlley So Fucking Gay Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,714	It'll be interesting to see how this plays out....

08-11-2006, 01:57 PM	#6
OldSchoolJim Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,117

08-11-2006, 03:18 PM	#11
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	If the judge was on the same level as the senator that asked someone to "send him an internet", then you know how it got there. I read the terms and conditions for the site, and wow... Alex

08-11-2006, 03:38 PM	#12
JMM Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,755	And the spin begins. TRO's are often denied. Judges are reluctant to close a business without due process. I have seen your product. I have seen what the FTC can do. I'm rooting for the FTC.

08-11-2006, 04:17 PM	#20
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	This guy is almost better than

08-11-2006, 04:18 PM	#21
bbc3826 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 242	WOW is all I can say I'm speechless

08-11-2006, 07:43 PM	#25
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	I don't really understand the moviepass business model... maybe because I have a mac :P Can't people just uninstall within a few days it if they don't want to pay? Is moviepass accused of using drive by installs? Or is it just the reminder popups that everybody is upset about? If people are purposely downloading the application, using it, and getting free videos from it I guess I don't have a ton of sympathy since thats what the entire concept of rebills is based on. The FTC went after maxcash for using dialers and their TRO was granted immediately. So does that mean that maxcash was worse? __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck Last edited by Quick Buck; 08-11-2006 at 07:44 PM..

08-11-2006, 08:29 PM	#29
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	i am all about free markets, creative ideas, inventive business models.... i do think that moviepass is deceptive at the least... sorry moviepass but you will lose this case in court... the ftc has a good track record of only taking on cases they can win... the tro rejection doesnt mean much... i wish you the best of luck but i wouldnt be buying any new cars or houses if i were you....

08-11-2006, 08:29 PM	#30
spacedog Yes that IS me. Bitch. Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 14,149	I can't believe you fly that banner trying to score affiliates,,,, Who want's your measly 50 cents... Pretty cheap if you ask me,, you collect nearly 200 bucks off the installs, but you only pay 50 cents to the webmaster.. Shit, I see thousands of programs that pay Over 50 %, you on the other hand like 1/1000th of a percent.. (ok, I'm not doing the math) Make it $99 per install & I will send you 1/2 million installs per month

08-11-2006, 10:15 PM	#32
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	I'm not by any means defending them, but I took a completely clean ghosted machine and ran a test on it and I don't quite get the upset over it. Here are the steps I went through (along with screenshots): 1) I download the installer http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step1.png 2) I run it and it shows me their terms in a browser http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step2.png 3) I agree to the terms and start watching movies http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step4.png 4) I decide to cancel and follow the link http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step5.png 5) I click once more to complete the cancellation process http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step6.png 6) It's cancelled. http://ww2.quickbuck.com/moviepass/step7.png 7) Their uninstaller didn't kill the license manager that was running, but after a bit of surfing I saw no ads, I checked a bunch of popular sites and saw no affiliate codes. So I killed it in ctrl-alt-del and then did an add/remove from my program files and there is no trace of it left on my system. Conclusion To download the app I had to purposely run it, and then seperately agree to ther terms which were pretty clear. In huge letters it says that if I don't cancel within 3 days I have to pay. Cancelling my membership took a visit to a web page and two clicks to cancel. It took me more work to download, install, agree to terms & watch the movie than to cancel the membership. I guess if you didn't bother to even read the huge "urgent reminder" (see step 2) then it might not make sense, but it seemed more clearly disclosed than even the average cross sale imho. Maybe I'll start seeing popups soon, but thats my report for now. Will return with more if I have any. __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

08-11-2006, 11:09 PM	#34
KrisKross Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 5,024	Let it run on your system past the 3 day trial and then watch what happens. __________________

08-12-2006, 04:06 AM	#35
Due Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Murrieta, CA Posts: 3,620	I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their promotion methods. But if they really where forcing people to spend $100 or something on a product they didnt want, wouldnt they have been eaten by Visa / Mastercard for chargebacks long before the FTC even noticed their product? __________________ I buy plugs Skype: Due_Global /Due

08-12-2006, 05:55 AM	#38
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	mad drama yo

08-12-2006, 02:56 PM	#40
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	I installed it a while back and halfway the install i got one virus warning after the other so i uninstalled it right away. It took me AGES to get rid of the shit that stayed on my puter. Everytime when i rebooted i got warnings and other shit telling me to install this and that.

08-12-2006, 03:00 PM	#41
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	Once again, as mentioned before, they redirect all firefox users to their own sponsors (so the affiliate loses 25% of their traffic to these thieves) because they can't exploit ff browser. I think that says enough.

08-12-2006, 05:56 PM	#46
SteveLightspeed Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lightspeedworld Posts: 7,940	I've always said, someone needs to make a sponsor program using the name "bury-it-in-the-terms-and-conditions.com" There is so much money to be made honestly on the net, why does anyone feel like they have to play all these bullshit games? It hurts the whole industry. Steve Lightspeed __________________ Abra-cadabra!