Is the United States still the Land of the Free?

[Quotealex]

Not to bash the US, but it seems to me that citizens from other have more freedom than the US!

[polle54]

was it ever?

[Quotealex]

Originally Posted by polle54

was it ever?

I beleive back in the day it was, except for visible minorities

[Alex From San Diego]

First you have to define Free.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by Alex from Montreal

Not to bash the US, but it seems to me that citizens from other have more freedom than the US!

Whats your definition of free or freedom?

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by polle54

was it ever?

The old west with gunslingers and outlaws = free?
You could shoot somebody for no reason and get a way with it.
Do whatever you want and nobody could do anything about it
Is that the freedom you speak of?
i.e. no laws
No laws = chaios
Is that what you want?

When I hear this question raised I get the impression thats what some folks around here want.

[CDSmith]

In terms of capitalism I would say yes, you are still free to succeed or fail as you wish.

In terms of the homeland security measures of recent years and it's impact on privacy etc, I believe at least a small measure of freedom has been given up.

[TSGlider]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

In terms of capitalism I would say yes, you are still free to succeed or fail as you wish.

In terms of the homeland security measures of recent years and it's impact on privacy etc, I believe at least a small measure of freedom has been given up.

Heard a few weeks back that the US is no longer the land of opportunity. It's much easier to rise up and out of poverty elsewhere--in other "first world" nations--than it is in the US.

What makes America different from everyone else--beyond the money, power, and making sales & marketing a true art form--is that it still retains a youthful exuberance. By world power standards, the US is a young country, and much of its population still believes it is the greatest country in the world.

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[GrouchyAdmin]

God bless european engineering. Taking sex, and marketing it. Who would have thought?

[scottybuzz]

i dont think any country is free

[Ace_luffy]

discrimination can't be gone... specially in US...

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by EuroDuke

Heard a few weeks back that the US is no longer the land of opportunity. It's much easier to rise up and out of poverty elsewhere--in other "first world" nations--than it is in the US.

What makes America different from everyone else--beyond the money, power, and making sales & marketing a true art form--is that it still retains a youthful exuberance. By world power standards, the US is a young country, and much of its population still believes it is the greatest country in the world.

That was one man's opinion

I would ask if that man ever lived in the US or spent any significant time there.

If that were true, why do so many people from all over the world still make their way to the USA to start a new life or get their educations? If you think that's not true think again. It is.

And.... I wasn't saying that the capitalistic opportunity in the US is BETTER than in other countries. I mentioned it because it still exists, thus answering in part the question of "Is America still the land of the free?"

Why anyone would automatically infer that I meant otherwise is beyond me, but I've come to expect that here. My fault for not being more clear and concise in my original post.

[godisdead]

Not since the Fed was founded.

[The Sultan Of Smut]

Originally Posted by Dvae

The old west with gunslingers and outlaws = free?
You could shoot somebody for no reason and get a way with it.
Do whatever you want and nobody could do anything about it
Is that the freedom you speak of?
i.e. no laws
No laws = chaios
Is that what you want?

When I hear this question raised I get the impression thats what some folks around here want.

Very good point I don't think most people really can define "free" though I suppose being free from religious and political persecution is a start and sadly if that's the criteria I don't think many countries are free.

I was wondering is political expression in some forms still outlawed down there? Can you drive from state to state with a trunk load of Communist Manifesto's without being arrested. I remember Michael Moore pulled that stunt years ago and got stopped.

Oh ya I forgot to add being free might also include not having your government spy on ya ;) Sorry had to throw that in.

[The Ghost]

The quick answer to the thread title is NO.

[eurorevenue]

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

First you have to define Free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free

Joe

[Isol8ter]

If you Occupy or Aid an Occupation, and supress other people, than your people is only free from its own evil.

Canadians & Costa Ricans are the true free people of the earth, Porn Valley too.

[Dirty Dane]

There are many levels of freedom

[coolegg2]

You can't be a free country and be a country which believes in sexual socialism, therefore the following countries are not free: China, Saudia Arabia, the United States of America.

The US is the land of the faux-free. Sad I know.

It's still illegal to own a dildo in many US states: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ws&btnG=Search

[E$_manager]

Very very doubtful.

[stickyfingerz]

Dumbest thread eva. lol

Real freedom is anarchy. No one really wants that. People think they do, but they would not like the results.

[kenny]

Freedom of assembly
Freedom of association
Freedom from government sanctioned discrimination
Freedom of education
Freedom of movement (or travel)
Freedom of the press
Freedom of religion (or belief)
Freedom of speech
Freedom of thought (or conscience)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_%28political%29

[BT]

home of the brave and all that shit above.

[Sly]

If you truly want true freedom, go to Africa. They have many, many free countries that are in the news every day.

People are free to kill each other with no repercussions. People can steal from one another with no repercussions. People can rape their neighbors wives with no repercussions.

So I guess it depends on your definition of free and what exact freedoms you want.

If you're asking me whether or not there's something that I can't do but would like to do... the answer is no. I can go where I want. Buy what I want. Watch what I want. Say what I want. Do what I want. Pray when I want. Pray to Whom I want.

Of course many of these are doable in any of your major first world countries. The "Land of the Free" is a phrase that was coined hundreds of years ago when oppression ran rampant throughout the world.

[SomeCreep]

The U.S. has never been the land of the free. Everything is paid for, e.g. taxes. If you dont pay, you go to jail.

[Xplicit]

We have more freedom than a lot of countries, and less than others.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by The Sultan Of Smut

I was wondering is political expression in some forms still outlawed down there?

What do you mean still?
Didn't know it ever was. No more so than any other western country.

Can you drive from state to state with a trunk load of Communist Manifesto's without being arrested. I remember Michael Moore pulled that stunt years ago and got stopped.

Yes I could, becuase I'm not Michael Moore.
As usual he was being an attention whore.

Oh ya I forgot to add being free might also include not having your government spy on ya ;) Sorry had to throw that in.

Again you'd have to be invovled or be suspected of being invovled in something illegal to provoke such an action.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

The U.S. has never been the land of the free. Everything is paid for, e.g. taxes. If you dont pay, you go to jail.

So in the UK or Canada, if you don't pay your taxes no worries they let you go?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by The Sultan Of Smut

I was wondering is political expression in some forms still outlawed down there? Can you drive from state to state with a trunk load of Communist Manifesto's without being arrested. I remember Michael Moore pulled that stunt years ago and got stopped.

There was a KKK rally today at the site of the Gettysburg Address. So, you tell me.

What reason would Michael Moore have to drive from state to state with a trunk of Communist Manifesto's? And what reason would somebody have to pull him over? And if they did pull him over, what reason would they have to search his trunk? Hmm...

[Niklas]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I would ask if that man ever lived in the US or spent any significant time there.

If that were true, why do so many people from all over the world still make their way to the USA to start a new life or get their educations? If you think that's not true think again. It is.

And.... I wasn't saying that the capitalistic opportunity in the US is BETTER than in other countries. I mentioned it because it still exists, thus answering in part the question of "Is America still the land of the free?"

Why anyone would automatically infer that I meant otherwise is beyond me, but I've come to expect that here. My fault for not being more clear and concise in my original post.

one could discuss though, why its so much harder to recieve "the american dream" now than ever before. Not sure if that has anything to do with freedom however.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Niklas

one could discuss though, why its so much harder to recieve "the american dream" now than ever before. Not sure if that has anything to do with freedom however.

Thats a misconception. The American Dream was never easy to get. It was about hope, faith, passion, desire. It always revolved around a goal to a greater life and having the persistence to achieve that goal, never letting go until its firmly in your grasp.

People say The American Dream is dead. If one believes that The American Dream is dead, they will never reach it. If they believe in The American Dream, they can and will reach it.

I have known many that have turned rags into riches. Doubt into faith. And death into life.

All it takes is one Dream within ones self.

[The Sultan Of Smut]

Originally Posted by Dvae

Yes I could, becuase I'm not Michael Moore.
As usual he was being an attention whore.

You're right he is I was just wondering about that after the Commie stuff a few decades ago.

[Webby]

Yet another thread about the USA???

The US can call itself anything it wants - "Land of the Free" old cliches or whatever - who cares? Does it matter?

Does the US live up to the "Land of the Free"?

Hell no - it's definately the least "free" of any industrialized nation and most other countries.

Freedom and the US were clashing words ever since that country was founded - thru a history of slavery, aggression towards other nations etc.

The US is unable to ratifiy numerous international treaties - covering everything from Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights to American Convention on Human Rights.

Never in the western world has a country laid obligations on their citizens even if they don't live in that country. The US does.

The majority of immigrants into the US are the poor from other nations. Almost all immigrants who become US citizens give up more rights than they had from their country of origin.

A non-US citizen who marries a US citizen and where both never live in the US, - the non-US party to that marriage is obligated to get a US taxpayer ID number and start accounting to taxation. Duh?? Two words fit well there - fuck off. The US loves to grab "rights" - even over marriages.

The US is the only western country who expect taxation from their citizens while those citizens are resident in another nation.

The US is the only country which has failed to adopt the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and offer US children the same rights as those in other nations.

If freedom is be an element in a democracy, there are a good number of democracies in the planet with standards of democracy far higher than those existing in the US.

Where international treaties have been ratified, the govt of the US uses federal law to remove the rights of their own citizens to seek redress thru the judicial system under those treaties. They are treaties in name only - with no rights.

Bottom line - a country which is unable to comply with basic rights and make these rights accessable to all citizens, is not any "land of the free".

Control freak country would be more appropriate.

[AdultInsider Cloner]

no one is completely free.... nor do most people wish to be totally free....

but satisically, while the USA has been slipping every year in the freedoms offered it's people, it still ranks in the top 10 in the world for freedom.

Specific aspect of it though are beaten fairly bad by many other countries.... Freedom of Press for example.... the US ranks around 14th in the world...both Costa Rica and Canada are higher

[Webby]

Originally Posted by AdultInsider Cloner

but satisically, while the USA has been slipping every year in the freedoms offered it's people, it still ranks in the top 10 in the world for freedom.

Specific aspect of it though are beaten fairly bad by many other countries.... Freedom of Press for example.... the US ranks around 14th in the world...both Costa Rica and Canada are higher

Someone seriously needs to update these rankings Can think of many western countries with more freedom and plenty third world countries.

Sure, agree - Canada and Costa Rica are easily in the rankings somewhere.

Where you getting the stats from AdultInsider Cloner?

[MrChips]

No the US population is manipulated.



And they know it.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by Webby

Someone seriously needs to update these rankings Can think of many western countries with more freedom and plenty third world countries.

Name one. And why.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by Dvae

Name one. And why.

AdultInsider Cloner already mentioned a couple - ask anyone from Canada or Costa Rica.

The inclination for residents of those countries is to take "freedoms" for granted - it's not something discussed much. The issue of "freedoms" is only raised within nations with an existing problem.

Why? Check out the list in that post above - both Canada and Costa Rica have none of these issues, - they also offer full rights under international treaties and both have ratified almost all conventions for rights/freedoms of their citizens.

[Hustlin Entertainment]

USA went to shit when the twin towers collapsed...

[aico]

Originally Posted by Dvae

The old west with gunslingers and outlaws = free?
You could shoot somebody for no reason and get a way with it.
Do whatever you want and nobody could do anything about it
Is that the freedom you speak of?
i.e. no laws
No laws = chaios
Is that what you want?

When I hear this question raised I get the impression thats what some folks around here want.

So you think that a law against shooting people stops people from shooting each other?

If there was no law against it you are saying would you shoot someone?

[minusonebit]

This, kids, is what we call a stupid question.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by aico

So you think that a law against shooting people stops people from shooting each other?

If there was no law against it you are saying would you shoot someone?

Never noticed this post from Dvae Surprised it was even a suggestion.

Originally Posted by Dvae

The old west with gunslingers and outlaws = free?
You could shoot somebody for no reason and get a way with it.
Do whatever you want and nobody could do anything about it
Is that the freedom you speak of?
i.e. no laws
No laws = chaios
Is that what you want?

When I hear this question raised I get the impression thats what some folks around here want.

Simple answer = No. That has nothing to do with freedom.

Murder anyone and it's jail cell time - same with any other offenses. Every country has laws covering this and they are not in dispute or related to freedom.

Individual freedom never awarded rights on any individual to be free to e.g. kill and terminate the rights of others. That is abuse of freedom - not freedom.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by Webby

Individual freedom never awarded rights on any individual to be free to e.g. kill and terminate the rights of others. That is abuse of freedom - not freedom.

Then what is your definition of Individual freedom?
Just trying to understand why you are so angry and so anti-american.

.

[MetaMan]

a frenchmen questioning the USA? nooo couldnt be, does it like run in your bloodline?

[jerseygto]

to fucking cuss at work and speak my mind without fear of losing my job!! no.2 they fix the problems in this country first such as jobs,homelessness,the weak school systems underpaid teachers!!! and the only oppertunitys are for if you have money!!!no.3 if you have bad credit (which i dont) but they make them pay more why not give them a chance to redeem themselvs by givin them the same rates as a business exectutive so they can save money and help themselves if they do it again then put thier intrest rates through the roof i could go on but i still love america but not how they run it

[bl4h]

FREE MEANS LIVING WITH UNCERTAINTY. As a Canadian you must be miserable knowing that the best you could do is become a producer of oil/electricty or wood to sell to THE UNITED STATED IOF GREATNESS. This is pretty much the only route to decent success in such a place. Id be miserable too. That, or come online to sell porn to us americans and british.

[Quotealex]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

a frenchmen questioning the USA? nooo couldnt be, does it like run in your bloodline?

Just because we speak french in Quebec, it doesn't make us French;)

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by Alex from Montreal

Just because we speak french in Quebec, it doesn't make us French;)

it is like the profs around this country have infected the minds of the youth, i have ALOT of stupid friends who have been basically told america is evil by their university professors and they all sound the same and try to convince me otherwise.

it seems like EVERYONE is quebec has a complaint about america, i mean who cares? why is america always on your guys' mind? i just do not get it.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by Dvae

Then what is your definition of Individual freedom?
Just trying to understand why you are so angry and so anti-american.

.

Not got time now to enter into the realms of individual freedom - others can debate on that for years and most folks have a clue already. I already posted examples above on this.

Why do you think this is "anti-american" or connected to being "so angry"??? Not only an I not "anti-american", but sure as hell not "angry" either. Who knows, but assume you may think that if you are on the US patriot bandwagon and feel a need to defend. I prefer to deal in facts and without bias of one thing or another.

The thread raised the question - "Is the United States still the Land of the Free?" Almost any nation can claim the same thing and prob boils down to comparisons of commonly accepted freedoms in various nations.

All nations have something going for them - tho all vary widely, but most have identifiable common standards. Example from above - both Canada and Costa Rica are prob among the top rankings - despite that, there are wide differences on various aspects - eg Costa Rica is certainly stronger on privacy rights, tho Canada will show a difference in another aspect of freedom.

Do I think the US qualifies top of the league as being the "land of the free"?? Well, no - because other nations have more freedom and rights overall, but that has nothing to do with being "anti-American". I am not anti *any* country.

[BusterBunny]

no there is now a $50 tax on freedom