IE7 What's the consensus? - GoFuckYourself.com

mike217 · 10-19-2006, 06:57 AM

What does everyone think of IE7. I use Firefox personally, but need to test on it and wondered if anyone had good, or bad stories with it to share.

Klen · 10-19-2006, 07:00 AM

Nothing special nothing new.He has features which firefox has long itme ago.

Jace · 10-19-2006, 07:06 AM

i like it, nice to see ie7 catch up

VicD · 10-19-2006, 07:08 AM

I like IE7, works fine for me, never had anything up with FF

Lazonby · 10-19-2006, 07:11 AM

I'm a sheep and I'm desperate to fit in with my peers, so I'm going to bash IE regardless of the facts. Also, Macs are far better than PCs, Microsoft is evil and some other stuff.

Elixir · 10-19-2006, 07:13 AM

IE7 suck !

mike217 · 10-19-2006, 07:14 AM

I agree that IE is horrible, but I only use it for testing purposes. Firefox for everything else.

gooddomains · 10-19-2006, 07:23 AM

haven't been able to install it

GatorB · 10-19-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike217

I agree that IE is horrible, but I only use it for testing purposes. Firefox for everything else.

it's not horrible. Obviously you haven't even tried it. Now go fuck yourself FF cultist

Babaganoosh · 10-19-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazonby

I'm a sheep and I'm desperate to fit in with my peers, so I'm going to bash IE regardless of the facts.

What facts?

Babaganoosh · 10-19-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

it's not horrible. Obviously you haven't even tried it. Now go fuck yourself FF cultist

It IS horrible when compared to the competition.

wjxxx · 10-19-2006, 10:15 AM

every microsoft app sucks

TheLegacy · 10-19-2006, 10:17 AM

havent tried it - but looks interesting. Wish there was some honest answers here instead of everything sucks yadda yadda. I use both and plugin content such as ours have to operator on all systems.

is anyone actually using it?

bdld · 10-19-2006, 11:07 AM

can't wait to try it out and give it a shot.

WDjay · 10-19-2006, 11:43 AM

IE7 shored up the exploit most of us use to pop exits

I hope sombody gets a new one out there quickly or you can kiss your exit trades and purchases goodbye.

SmokeyTheBear · 10-19-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDjay

IE7 shored up the exploit most of us use to pop exits

I hope sombody gets a new one out there quickly or you can kiss your exit trades and purchases goodbye.

i got exits and popups working for ie7
as far as browsers
ie7 works . firefox doesnt . plain and simple.
until firefox can at least do what ie7 is doing its like claiming a rock is better than a wheel because it doesnt fall over..

drjones · 10-19-2006, 11:49 AM

I find IE6 intolerable, simply because over the years I have grown so used to tabs.. but thats really the biggest reason.

IE7 has tabs, so I dont actually mind using it at all. Ive only done very superficial web browsing with it though.

martinsc · 10-19-2006, 12:01 PM

i like IE7...

CheneyRumsfeld · 10-19-2006, 12:20 PM

IE7 is the way to go.
very ownable.
ActiveX is where it is at.
have you seen all those "undocumented features" in Vista?
just gets better and better.

dennisthemenace · 10-19-2006, 12:26 PM

I don't typically touch anything from Microsoft until months after it hits the streets.

KRL · 10-19-2006, 01:19 PM

All they did was copy Firefox. It's pathetic a company with that many brilliant developers can't be original and instead has to copy another company's product.

free4porn · 10-19-2006, 01:27 PM

Firefox FTW!

marketsmart · 10-19-2006, 01:28 PM

http://www.ie7.com/

RawAlex · 10-19-2006, 02:06 PM

Okay, so I downloaded and installed IE7. Installation was easy, not a big deal, the only error being that when the browser started up for the first time, it wouldn't load the page from microsoft because their server was too busy. Nice. The initial load also revealed that some of the toolbar items were missing (for some reason it didn't think I needed a home or stop button). A couple of clicks cleared that up. The google toolbar that was installed remained installed without issue. Settings seemed to be retained (I have IE prompt for every active-x control, just to be safe).

The browser itself loads quickly, and your home page will load very quickly. When compared to my current firefox install, IE is rather zippy, actually. The look is "Vista". with the new colors, the new font, and the new look rounded edges and all that crap. As some would say, the new look is Mac-ish. The new font is nice and clear, easy to read, and the pages seemed to render pretty quickly for me.

I have no issues that I have found so far, but being use the firefox I will likely stay with it unless I find issues. I am going to be doing some testing on CSS later on tonight and tomorrow, and I will check back in if I see anything wild.

Alex

Freeway · 10-19-2006, 02:13 PM

Not 24 hours after the release of IE7, Secunia reports Internet Explorer Arbitrary Content Disclosure Vulnerability. So much for the "you wanted it easier and more secure" slogan found on Microsoft's IE Website.

woj · 10-19-2006, 02:16 PM

is the final version out yet?

KRL · 10-19-2006, 02:53 PM

LOL - Security Vulnerability Already Reported in IE7

Despite the deepening of Microsoft's security measures, less than 24 hours after the company's announcement that IE7 had been released, the browser's first vulnerability was reported by security firm Secunia.

According to the company's advisory, the flaw is rated as "less critical," because it does not allow attackers to gain control of a system. However, it does put users at risk for exposure of system and personal information, according to Secunia chief technology officer Thomas Kristensen.

"This is a vulnerability that was in IE6 which Microsoft apparently decided not to patch," he said. "It was a surprise to us to see it wasn't fixed."

The vulnerability allows malicious hackers to sneak code onto users' computers, such as keylogging programs, or to monitor their activity. Because of that, it could be used in phishing scams, Kristensen noted.

"Microsoft has to reconsider this one," he said. "It's not critical because it can't compromise a system, but it is still a potent way to get information off the system of an unsuspecting user."

GatorB · 10-19-2006, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

LOL - Security Vulnerability Already Reported in IE7

Despite the deepening of Microsoft's security measures, less than 24 hours after the company's announcement that IE7 had been released, the browser's first vulnerability was reported by security firm Secunia.

According to the company's advisory, the flaw is rated as "less critical," because it does not allow attackers to gain control of a system. However, it does put users at risk for exposure of system and personal information, according to Secunia chief technology officer Thomas Kristensen.

"This is a vulnerability that was in IE6 which Microsoft apparently decided not to patch," he said. "It was a surprise to us to see it wasn't fixed."

The vulnerability allows malicious hackers to sneak code onto users' computers, such as keylogging programs, or to monitor their activity. Because of that, it could be used in phishing scams, Kristensen noted.

"Microsoft has to reconsider this one," he said. "It's not critical because it can't compromise a system, but it is still a potent way to get information off the system of an unsuspecting user."

Please. Ok first of all let's READ. I see "It's not critical because it can't compromise a system". I also see "Because of that, it could be used in phishing scams". Of course the article fails to mention IE7 has ANTI-PHISHING technology.

vvq · 10-19-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

All they did was copy Firefox. It's pathetic a company with that many brilliant developers can't be original and instead has to copy another company's product.

It's the Microsoft way and it works. And Firefox is still a buggy piece of shit.

minusonebit · 10-19-2006, 06:37 PM

I installed it last night. It took forever to install. I also had to reboot after I installed it. (Gee, I dont have to do that when I install a new Firefox). I opened it up and started to type Google into the URL box and a little window came up I havent seen since the last time I used M$ Office... it said something about how sorry Microsoft was and thatIE had generated an error and needed to close.

So yeah, I'm sticking with Firefox.

minusonebit · 10-19-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Please. Ok first of all let's READ. I see "It's not critical because it can't compromise a system". I also see "Because of that, it could be used in phishing scams". Of course the article fails to mention IE7 has ANTI-PHISHING technology.

So non-crtical holes should not be patched? And the anti-phishing technology is a bandaid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvq

It's the Microsoft way and it works. And Firefox is still a buggy piece of shit.

Microsoft has never invented anything. They have never had an orginal idea. They are very much like Guba, except Microsoft at least makes thier own "content" (the box and shit).

Spunky · 10-19-2006, 07:12 PM

I'm liking it..it is much more faster then the beta

vvq · 10-19-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Microsoft has never invented anything. They have never had an orginal idea. They are very much like Guba, except Microsoft at least makes thier own "content" (the box and shit).

And your point is? It's a business man.

GatorB · 10-19-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minusonebit

And the anti-phishing technology is a bandaid.

So is the anti-phising on FF 2.0 also a band-aid in your eyes? By the way FF never intened to add anti-phising until AFTER IE7 and Opera 9 had them included. And people want to talk about IE ripping off FF.

aico · 10-19-2006, 08:25 PM

People still use IE? Jesus Christ.

JasonB · 10-19-2006, 09:13 PM

i like it. i gave up FF a few months ago

SmokeyTheBear · 10-19-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aico

People still use IE? Jesus Christ.

yup the overwhelming majority

probably because it displays web pages like they were meant to be seen better than any browser around ..

GrouchyAdmin · 10-19-2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazonby

I'm a sheep and I'm desperate to fit in with my peers, so I'm going to bash IE regardless of the facts. Also, Macs are far better than PCs, Microsoft is evil and some other stuff.

Vote Democrat, brother.

I tried it on an XP Home SP2 box, and it fucked it so royally that I gave up on trying to 'roll back' and ended up reinstalling the system.

About the usual for Post-IE4 updates, I'd say.

fallenmuffin · 10-19-2006, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

i like it, nice to see ie7 catch up

Ha, IE has not caught up to anything. If they made their browser render to w3c standards everything would break. Business would go under due to their web applications failing. Don't get me started on ActiveX ...

TheJimmy · 10-19-2006, 11:45 PM

I'm a creature of habit, I've been a NS/Moz/FF fan for ages...IE is fine in general, however last time I checked out IE7 I really didn't care for it, hopefully they worked it into a nicer product since then...

nekrom · 10-19-2006, 11:57 PM

My only prob with IE7 is that it auto kills pops/exit consoles by defualt. Well at least the ones I was using before that worked fine. If anyone has a solution to that I'm happy to pay.

-N

KRL · 10-20-2006, 10:55 AM

LOL, just installed it on my laptop. What a goofy layout. Nothing special except tabs, which FF already has.

I expected to see a lot more on IE7, but glad to say Firefox is by far still the best browser.

DaddyHalbucks · 10-20-2006, 11:36 AM

Is there any reason not to stick with IE6 for a little while longer?

Let everybody else be the guinea pigs for IE7 for a while. After a few months, then I will download IE7.

Zester · 10-20-2006, 11:53 AM

FF and IE7 are good browsers.
guys using FF will still say it's better.

* currently ie7 has some security issues like any new browser.
* the tabed browsing in IE7 is not as good as the one on FF but good enough
* some sites have problems working properly in IE7 as they do with FF and opera, not like IE6 which almost every site looks ok.
* IE7 design is awful in my opinion, including the google search text they force on the menu so if you have the google tool bar, you feel kinda dumb (but you can switch to other search engines)
* IE7 is still a microsoft application so no extensions and plug ins

all in all IE7 is a good browser and you should use it.

squishypimp · 10-20-2006, 12:28 PM

im still debating on upgrading, probably will do it soon.

ADL Colin · 10-20-2006, 12:40 PM

I downloaded it a few hours ago just to check it out. Nothing original.

mike217 · 10-20-2006, 12:44 PM

I've heard it blocks pops. Anyone found a script to get around it yet?

10-19-2006, 06:57 AM	#1
mike217 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 448	IE7 What's the consensus? What does everyone think of IE7. I use Firefox personally, but need to test on it and wondered if anyone had good, or bad stories with it to share. __________________ ICQ me: 452467182 Check me out on adult who's who:See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com! Traffic Traffic and more Traffic

10-19-2006, 07:13 AM	#6
Elixir CHECK MY SIG-AMAZING SITE Join Date: May 2006 Location: ICQ: 210-874-419 Posts: 12,870	IE7 suck ! __________________ SIG FOR SALE ICQ 210874419

10-19-2006, 07:14 AM	#7
mike217 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 448	I agree that IE is horrible, but I only use it for testing purposes. Firefox for everything else. __________________ ICQ me: 452467182 Check me out on adult who's who:See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com! Traffic Traffic and more Traffic

10-19-2006, 10:17 AM	#13
TheLegacy SEO Connoisseur Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brantford, Ontario Posts: 16,445	havent tried it - but looks interesting. Wish there was some honest answers here instead of everything sucks yadda yadda. I use both and plugin content such as ours have to operator on all systems. is anyone actually using it? __________________ SEO Connoisseur Microsoft Teams: Robert Warren SEO Telegram: @TheLegacy54 RobertWarrenSEO.com

10-19-2006, 11:43 AM	#15
WDjay Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: So.Cal Posts: 381	IE7 shored up the exploit most of us use to pop exits I hope sombody gets a new one out there quickly or you can kiss your exit trades and purchases goodbye. __________________

10-19-2006, 07:00 AM	#2
Klen Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Little Vienna Posts: 32,235	Nothing special nothing new.He has features which firefox has long itme ago.

10-19-2006, 07:06 AM	#3
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	i like it, nice to see ie7 catch up

10-19-2006, 07:08 AM	#4
VicD ICQ: 304-611-162 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Masterdam Posts: 13,245	I like IE7, works fine for me, never had anything up with FF

10-19-2006, 07:11 AM	#5
Lazonby Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,262	I'm a sheep and I'm desperate to fit in with my peers, so I'm going to bash IE regardless of the facts. Also, Macs are far better than PCs, Microsoft is evil and some other stuff.

10-19-2006, 07:23 AM	#8
gooddomains Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,127	haven't been able to install it

10-19-2006, 10:15 AM	#12
wjxxx So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,448	every microsoft app sucks

10-19-2006, 11:07 AM	#14
bdld $100,000 Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 11,452	can't wait to try it out and give it a shot.

10-19-2006, 11:49 AM	#17
drjones Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 908	I find IE6 intolerable, simply because over the years I have grown so used to tabs.. but thats really the biggest reason. IE7 has tabs, so I dont actually mind using it at all. Ive only done very superficial web browsing with it though. __________________ ICQ: 284903372

10-19-2006, 12:01 PM	#18
martinsc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 27,047	i like IE7... __________________ Make Money

10-19-2006, 12:20 PM	#19
CheneyRumsfeld Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,341	IE7 is the way to go. very ownable. ActiveX is where it is at. have you seen all those "undocumented features" in Vista? just gets better and better.

10-19-2006, 12:26 PM	#20
dennisthemenace Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In the present moment Posts: 2,668	I don't typically touch anything from Microsoft until months after it hits the streets. __________________ All the best to you

10-19-2006, 01:19 PM	#21
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	All they did was copy Firefox. It's pathetic a company with that many brilliant developers can't be original and instead has to copy another company's product. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

10-19-2006, 01:27 PM	#22
free4porn Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,654	Firefox FTW! __________________ Switch To Fling Now! I'm on 1:201 paid signups sending little traffic! Make $$$ Free Porn

10-19-2006, 01:28 PM	#23
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	http://www.ie7.com/

10-19-2006, 02:06 PM	#24
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Okay, so I downloaded and installed IE7. Installation was easy, not a big deal, the only error being that when the browser started up for the first time, it wouldn't load the page from microsoft because their server was too busy. Nice. The initial load also revealed that some of the toolbar items were missing (for some reason it didn't think I needed a home or stop button). A couple of clicks cleared that up. The google toolbar that was installed remained installed without issue. Settings seemed to be retained (I have IE prompt for every active-x control, just to be safe). The browser itself loads quickly, and your home page will load very quickly. When compared to my current firefox install, IE is rather zippy, actually. The look is "Vista". with the new colors, the new font, and the new look rounded edges and all that crap. As some would say, the new look is Mac-ish. The new font is nice and clear, easy to read, and the pages seemed to render pretty quickly for me. I have no issues that I have found so far, but being use the firefox I will likely stay with it unless I find issues. I am going to be doing some testing on CSS later on tonight and tomorrow, and I will check back in if I see anything wild. Alex

10-19-2006, 02:13 PM	#25
Freeway Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: EU Posts: 441	Not 24 hours after the release of IE7, Secunia reports Internet Explorer Arbitrary Content Disclosure Vulnerability. So much for the "you wanted it easier and more secure" slogan found on Microsoft's IE Website.

10-19-2006, 02:16 PM	#26
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	is the final version out yet? __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

10-19-2006, 02:53 PM	#27
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	LOL - Security Vulnerability Already Reported in IE7 Despite the deepening of Microsoft's security measures, less than 24 hours after the company's announcement that IE7 had been released, the browser's first vulnerability was reported by security firm Secunia. According to the company's advisory, the flaw is rated as "less critical," because it does not allow attackers to gain control of a system. However, it does put users at risk for exposure of system and personal information, according to Secunia chief technology officer Thomas Kristensen. "This is a vulnerability that was in IE6 which Microsoft apparently decided not to patch," he said. "It was a surprise to us to see it wasn't fixed." The vulnerability allows malicious hackers to sneak code onto users' computers, such as keylogging programs, or to monitor their activity. Because of that, it could be used in phishing scams, Kristensen noted. "Microsoft has to reconsider this one," he said. "It's not critical because it can't compromise a system, but it is still a potent way to get information off the system of an unsuspecting user." __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

10-19-2006, 06:37 PM	#30
minusonebit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: [email protected] Posts: 7,391	I installed it last night. It took forever to install. I also had to reboot after I installed it. (Gee, I dont have to do that when I install a new Firefox). I opened it up and started to type Google into the URL box and a little window came up I havent seen since the last time I used M$ Office... it said something about how sorry Microsoft was and thatIE had generated an error and needed to close. So yeah, I'm sticking with Firefox.

10-19-2006, 07:12 PM	#32
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,928	I'm liking it..it is much more faster then the beta __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

10-19-2006, 08:25 PM	#35
aico Moo Moo Cow Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 14,748	People still use IE? Jesus Christ.

10-19-2006, 09:13 PM	#36
JasonB Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,183	i like it. i gave up FF a few months ago

10-19-2006, 11:45 PM	#40
TheJimmy ICQ- five seven 0 2 5 5 0 Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10,747	I'm a creature of habit, I've been a NS/Moz/FF fan for ages...IE is fine in general, however last time I checked out IE7 I really didn't care for it, hopefully they worked it into a nicer product since then... __________________ Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.

10-19-2006, 11:57 PM	#41
nekrom Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Australia/Asia Posts: 921	My only prob with IE7 is that it auto kills pops/exit consoles by defualt. Well at least the ones I was using before that worked fine. If anyone has a solution to that I'm happy to pay. -N __________________ Free Traffic

10-20-2006, 10:55 AM	#42
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	LOL, just installed it on my laptop. What a goofy layout. Nothing special except tabs, which FF already has. I expected to see a lot more on IE7, but glad to say Firefox is by far still the best browser. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

10-20-2006, 11:36 AM	#43
DaddyHalbucks A freakin' legend! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada USA Posts: 18,975	Is there any reason not to stick with IE6 for a little while longer? Let everybody else be the guinea pigs for IE7 for a while. After a few months, then I will download IE7. __________________ Boner Money

10-20-2006, 11:53 AM	#44
Zester Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,344	FF and IE7 are good browsers. guys using FF will still say it's better. * currently ie7 has some security issues like any new browser. * the tabed browsing in IE7 is not as good as the one on FF but good enough * some sites have problems working properly in IE7 as they do with FF and opera, not like IE6 which almost every site looks ok. * IE7 design is awful in my opinion, including the google search text they force on the menu so if you have the google tool bar, you feel kinda dumb (but you can switch to other search engines) * IE7 is still a microsoft application so no extensions and plug ins all in all IE7 is a good browser and you should use it. __________________ * Mainstream ? $65 per sale * new male contraception Last edited by Zester; 10-20-2006 at 11:55 AM..

10-20-2006, 12:28 PM	#45
squishypimp PostMaster General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,781	im still debating on upgrading, probably will do it soon. __________________ Signature For Sale

10-20-2006, 12:40 PM	#46
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	I downloaded it a few hours ago just to check it out. Nothing original. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

10-20-2006, 12:44 PM	#47
mike217 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 448	I've heard it blocks pops. Anyone found a script to get around it yet? __________________ ICQ me: 452467182 Check me out on adult who's who:See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com! Traffic Traffic and more Traffic