legally risky niches

[DaddyHalbucks]

What are the riskiest niches? CP is obviously illegal, detestable, and unacceptable. Beast-e-ality, 1ncest, and_rape too.

1. However, I still see alot of pissing sites. They look risky to me. Has anybody been prosecuted over a pee site?

2. How about fisting? Is that a gray area, or is that to be avoided also?

3. What other niches are asking for trouble?

Let's have some thoughtful discussion about the legal boundaries of extreme sites.

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Let's have some thoughtful discussion about the legal boundaries of extreme sites.

I think in this current political environment it's safe to say that "extreme sites" ARE over the legal boundaries.

Stick with vanilla if you want to be safe.

[SlamDesigns]

I don't see what people see in piss and scat sites. That's just some nasty stuff there.

[bizarredollars]

Well, here in the UK the BBFC has passed piss videos with R18 certificates, but they won't pass person-to-person piss play etc..

[Boobs]

what he said ^^^

[ForteCash]

Originally Posted by SlamDesigns

I don't see what people see in piss and scat sites. That's just some nasty stuff there.

It takes a lot of late nights without daddy coming home and daddy missing school plays for a lady to fuck a goat or get shit on and honestly think, "I'm a success!!!"

[SlamDesigns]

Originally Posted by ForteCash

It takes a lot of late nights without daddy coming home and daddy missing school plays for a lady to fuck a goat or get shit on and honestly think, "I'm a success!!!"

Yeah, but I worked with a wrestler (a very well known one at one point) that has a shit fetish. He liked to hire hookers to come back to the hotel after a show, and he'd lay under a glass table jacking off while they took a shit on it. That's just freaky to me.

[MyNameIsNobody]

ok, I don't get this piss and scat thing but I can't see any reson why it should be illegal.. I mean, people can eat shit and snort piss for all I care.. It's fucking discusting but not illegal.. right?

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by SlamDesigns

Yeah, but I worked with a wrestler (a very well known one at one point) that has a shit fetish. He liked to hire hookers to come back to the hotel after a show, and he'd lay under a glass table jacking off while they took a shit on it. That's just freaky to me.

Isn't that a scene from Portnoy's Complaint?

[PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE]

I wonder what it is about the pissing/shitting fetishes. I guess it's the total submission and power thing again, just with human waste instead of gagging/rough fucking/choking/whatever else you can think of.

[gimo33]

Originally Posted by SlamDesigns

Yeah, but I worked with a wrestler (a very well known one at one point) that has a shit fetish. He liked to hire hookers to come back to the hotel after a show, and he'd lay under a glass table jacking off while they took a shit on it. That's just freaky to me.

freakishly disgusting.... or disgustingly freaky...

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by SlamDesigns

Yeah, but I worked with a wrestler (a very well known one at one point) that has a shit fetish. He liked to hire hookers to come back to the hotel after a show, and he'd lay under a glass table jacking off while they took a shit on it. That's just freaky to me.

Cleveland steamer lol

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I think in this current political environment it's safe to say that "extreme sites" ARE over the legal boundaries.

Stick with vanilla if you want to be safe.

Define "extreme." Define "vanilla."

Let's try to avoid vague discussions, if possible.

The point of this thread is to try and sketch the boundaries and be as clear as possible about which niches are risky, in plain language.

I don't recall ever seeing a hard and fast list of prohibited sex acts from the USD0J. Post it if there is such a thing.

Maybe a clear line doesn't exist. Maybe that what the authorities want, so they can engage in selective prosecution and harassment.

And, how can "community standards" allow something to be a crime one place but not another, and without definitions, boundaries, and clear law? How can people be expected to comply with such rules which are made up as you go along? Other crimes are well defined in the law. Maybe that makes all porn protected speech, and eviscerates the concept of obscenity.

Discuss!

[SlamDesigns]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Isn't that a scene from Portnoy's Complaint?

Dunno about that...but it was a "scene" that happened at a NC Ramada one night. lol. I was one of the lucky ones that didn't walk in on it.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I think in this current political environment it's safe to say that "extreme sites" ARE over the legal boundaries.

Stick with vanilla if you want to be safe.

some wouldn't consider gay sites to be 'vanilla' and most definitely not twink sites. anywho, i see nothing wrong with fisting, piss sites but do think scat is a bit much.

[mikeyddddd]

Originally Posted by SlamDesigns

Yeah, but I worked with a wrestler (a very well known one at one point) that has a shit fetish. He liked to hire hookers to come back to the hotel after a show, and he'd lay under a glass table jacking off while they took a shit on it. That's just freaky to me.

Did the cleaning staff quit and move back to Mexico after that?

[Peaches]

Just think "What will 12 members of my town/county think is risky?" because that's who you'll be answering to if there's ever a problem.

[Peaches]

And to be extra safe, think "What will 12 of the prudish members of my town/county think is risky?" ;)

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

some wouldn't consider gay sites to be 'vanilla' and most definitely not twink sites. anywho, i see nothing wrong with fisting, piss sites but do think scat is a bit much.

Hell fisting is specifically listed as an illegal act in many state laws (one of the few things that's actually spelled out), and CCBill will no longer process for new watersports sites, so so I'd re-think those ones if I were you.

As for "twink" content, it's 18-21 (or in the case of my sites 18-25). 18 is the legal age, so I see nothing "risky" or not "vanilla" about that?

As for "gay" content, sodomy became safe after Lawrence v. Texas IMHO.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Just think "What will 12 members of my town/county think is risky?" because that's who you'll be answering to if there's ever a problem.

Good point.

But how fair is it to have the standards for such a law to be so loose?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by ForteCash

It takes a lot of late nights without daddy coming home and daddy missing school plays for a lady to fuck a goat or get shit on and honestly think, "I'm a success!!!"

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Define "extreme." Define "vanilla."

Let's try to avoid vague discussions, if possible.

The point of this thread is to try and sketch the boundaries and be as clear as possible about which niches are risky, in plain language.

I don't recall ever seeing a hard and fast list of prohibited sex acts from the USD0J. Post it if there is such a thing.

Maybe a clear line doesn't exist. Maybe that what the authorities want, so they can engage in selective prosecution and harassment.

And, how can "community standards" allow something to be a crime one place but not another, and without definitions, boundaries, and clear law? How can people be expected to comply with such rules which are made up as you go along? Other crimes are well defined in the law. Maybe that makes all porn protected speech, and eviscerates the concept of obscenity.

Discuss!

Ok. Here's a simple answer for your chief...

Go see what the credit card processors say you can, and can not do.

There is your definition.

Are we clear?.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

some wouldn't consider gay sites to be 'vanilla' and most definitely not twink sites. anywho, i see nothing wrong with fisting, piss sites but do think scat is a bit much.

I see nothing wrong with anything that is between persons 18+ that is consensual --but that is not the point.

The point is to identify problem niches where there is a reasonable chance of prosecution.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Ok. Here's a simple answer for your chief...

Go see what the credit card processors say you can, and can not do.

There is your definition.

Are we clear?.

It helps a little, but I am not sure how it would play out as a defense strategy.

"Visa said it was OK" --I wonder if Visa's opinion has any legal significance.

[PSGuru]

There was the thing called the Cambria list... but it seems a bit much

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...g/cambria.html

The Cambria List:

Box-Cover Guidelines/Movie Production Guidelines

Before selecting a chrome please check facial expression. Do not use any shots that depict any unhappiness or pain.


Do not include any of the following:

No shots with appearance of pain or degradation

No facials (bodyshots are OK if shot is not nasty)

No bukakke

No spitting or saliva mouth to mouth

No food used as sex object

No peeing unless in a natural setting, e.g., field, roadside

No coffins

No blindfolds

No wax dripping

No two dicks in/near one mouth

No shot of stretching pussy

No fisting

No squirting

No bondage-type toys or gear unless very light

No girls sharing same dildo (in mouth or pussy)

Toys are OK if shot is not nasty

No hands from 2 different people fingering same girl

No male/male penetration

No transsexuals

No bi-sex

No degrading dialogue, e.g., "Suck this cock, bitch" while slapping her face with a penis

No menstruation topics

No incest topics

No forced sex, rape themes, etc.

No black men-white women themes

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by PSGuru

There was the thing called the Cambria list... but it seems a bit much

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...g/cambria.html

The Cambria List:

Box-Cover Guidelines/Movie Production Guidelines

Before selecting a chrome please check facial expression. Do not use any shots that depict any unhappiness or pain.


Do not include any of the following:

No shots with appearance of pain or degradation

No facials (bodyshots are OK if shot is not nasty)

No bukakke

No spitting or saliva mouth to mouth

No food used as sex object

No peeing unless in a natural setting, e.g., field, roadside

No coffins

No blindfolds

No wax dripping

No two dicks in/near one mouth

No shot of stretching pussy

No fisting

No squirting

No bondage-type toys or gear unless very light

No girls sharing same dildo (in mouth or pussy)

Toys are OK if shot is not nasty

No hands from 2 different people fingering same girl

No male/male penetration

No transsexuals

No bi-sex

No degrading dialogue, e.g., "Suck this cock, bitch" while slapping her face with a penis

No menstruation topics

No incest topics

No forced sex, rape themes, etc.

No black men-white women themes

There goes my Friday night ...

[HighSociety]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

There goes my Friday night ...

hahaha i am looking for the same type list i found which is even bigger.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by Peaches

And to be extra safe, think "What will 12 of the prudish members of my town/county think is risky?" ;)

Well for an obscenity case, they are most apt to prosecute you in another state/town.

So figure the 12 most prudish people in the most prudish state and town, overseen by the most prudish judge possible, while being accused by the most righteous prosecutor available. All the while in a room that smells, feels, and nearly looks like a church; which you will also swear over a bible. With a known agenda of that you very well and most likely may be found innocent, yet they do not care. Since they know damn well you can not beat the ride.

To be at the most non risk possible, follow the Cambria list, stay off the radar, and keep in mind these are one of the few if only laws you could be breaking and not know until a jury tells you so.

[XPays]

drugged/drunk/sleeping porn
any porn with violent treatment of the talent
the nonnude underage garbage


some of us would add those to the list. then as far as legally risky areas that are more of a civil suit nature, would be any time people use celebrity images and copy without written consent....


the throat gagging, puking, slap a model around til she cries, choking etc... is all going to get tested in the future according to some conservative types.

[E$_manager]

Pissing is not as risky as skunt sites.

[SCORE Ralph]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I think in this current political environment it's safe to say that "extreme sites" ARE over the legal boundaries.

Stick with vanilla if you want to be safe.

I second his advice. Could be prosecuted under "obscenity" laws.

[tehHinjew]

indian chicks? what do they convert

[squishypimp]

the sleep assualt niche is very risky

[L-Pink]

Bondage wise, anything that would be considered great acting in Hollywood will be considered extreme.

[MandyBlake]

i would think any EXTREME bondage.

[Wiggles]

Originally Posted by squishypimp

the sleep assualt niche is very risky

its done as a sleeping fantasy though, not rape.

[vvq]

I think we've hit some taboo niches with Lesbian Step Sisters and Spank My Daughter

[bopha]

That amputee site doesn't have a leg to stand on in a court of law.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

The point of this thread is to try and sketch the boundaries and be as clear as possible about which niches are risky, in plain language.

Know the laws under which you operate - they say what is illegal and a good guide as to what is "risky". These laws vary depending on jurisdiction.

It's not hard to ID risky content - 99% is common sense - and not a matter of itemizing the features of "risky" - examine it and you will, or should, know.

Bottom line, it's a matter of personal jugdement what content you elect to use. As an "editor" of websites, you are expected to show some judgement in what appears on these websites and be responsible for your publishing decisions. That judgement may be based on awareness of laws, whether you want to be within 100 miles of the subject matter, and whether you are willing to actively defend the content in a courtroom with a solid case.

[Mediachick]

What about pretending to hurt a model; meaning the model acts as if there was pain involved along with special effects such as stage blood and props like that although without depiction of a sexual situation (just nudity/topless?)

I saw site doing that kind of scenes and always wondered how high the risk was to display such content.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by bopha

That amputee site doesn't have a leg to stand on in a court of law.

[thebossxxx]

Originally Posted by bopha

That amputee site doesn't have a leg to stand on in a court of law.

Give me a break he has 1 leg but Pedro can have sex better than most men.
This is completely subjective. You have your opinion which I respect cuz this is a free world however, we there are many people that like his site cuz it's simply something new and interesting...
I feel it's a form of discrimination saying what you said..
Bottom line if you don't like Pedro you dont have to watch his site

[marcjacob]

Originally Posted by thebossxxx

I feel it's a form of discrimination saying what you said..
Bottom line if you don't like Pedro you dont have to watch his site

I think that was joke? Poor taste but very funny.

Originally Posted by PSGuru

There was the thing called the Cambria list... but it seems a bit much

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...g/cambria.html

The Cambria List:

Box-Cover Guidelines/Movie Production Guidelines

Before selecting a chrome please check facial expression. Do not use any shots that depict any unhappiness or pain.


Do not include any of the following:
No facials (bodyshots are OK if shot is not nasty)
No food used as sex object
No blindfolds
No two dicks in/near one mouth
No shot of stretching pussy
No squirting
No girls sharing same dildo (in mouth or pussy)
No hands from 2 different people fingering same girl
No male/male penetration
No transsexuals
No bi-sex
No black men-white women themes

These are archaic. This list has allways been bs imo. I mean seriously, no mixed couples? No bi? No 2 dicks in one mouth??

Im may have missed some. Just went through the list quickly.

[marcjacob]

Ill post something maybe usefull to uk webmasters. The advice i recievd is no explicit r18 style dvds should be sold! This is because in the uk these dvds can only be sold by licensed sex shops. Someone posted this on another board and i did some digging about it. If your promoting r18's and in the uk you should check with your lawyer.

[vvq]

is this going too far?

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by vvq

is this going too far?

what in the fuck? anyone who beats their dick to that shit belongs in a fucking mental institution. that far excedes beastiality in my 'what the fuck is wrong with you?' category...

as for questionable niches, i've noticed a WHOLE LOT of pedo-oriented hentai out there since i began looking for anime sponsors on my toonsex blog. i'd stay the fuck away from that...

and the older man/younger girl niche, which i notice a disturbing trend in slowly turning into the daddy/daughter pseudo incest niche...

which brings us to a couple more obviously fucked niches, incest and beastiality (which i am pretty sure are only legit in third world type shitholes)

probably want to steer clear of those...

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by ismokeblunts

beastiality (which i am pretty sure are only legit in third world type shitholes)

probably want to steer clear of those...

You may be in for a surprise.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

are you saying it's legit to push beastiality in north america (excluding mexico)? i thought that was pretty out of bounds in canada & the states...

[Webby]

Originally Posted by kermey

Ill post something maybe usefull to uk webmasters. The advice i recievd is no explicit r18 style dvds should be sold! This is because in the uk these dvds can only be sold by licensed sex shops. Someone posted this on another board and i did some digging about it. If your promoting r18's and in the uk you should check with your lawyer.

Think you are 100% correct kermey. There is no provision for net use of R18 rated content in the UK - and the reason sale of this material is confined to licensed adult stores within the UK.

Bottom line is UK webmasters fall under the Obscene Publications Act which, as you prob know, defines obscenity as that which would "tend to deprave and corrupt persons who are likely, having regard to all relevant circumstances, to read, see or hear the matter contained or embodied in it" - and a jury will be the decider.

There also has been sucessful legal arguements where a crown counsel can start off his case with a claim that there is "range" in obscenity - from the mildest sexual content to the most extreme/bizarre end. If the material is mild in nature and a decision has been taken to prosecute - he can claim that the content is the "mildest form of pornography", and, if he can convince a jury, this can result in a conviction.

It is very much a personal judgement on what may be deemed to be acceptable under the law and, if challenged, the material can be legitimately be defended.

Content which has already been thru the courts and to be avoided - "scat", pissing, violence (closely related to sexual abuse or demeaning conduct), child abuse, cannibalism et al. There is little doubt the Director of Public Prosecutions would elect to instigate an action involving these topics.

There are also "phases" of public concern over certain subjects, and enforcement is more likely to happen. The current "phase" is over what has been described as "violent and extreme pornography" and doubt the Director is not unaware he will have more chance of conviction with such cases. (The Home Office appears to be only interested in pursuing cases where there is a reasonable chance of a jury guilty verdict.)

Think you got to buy a hard copy of the OPA to get the detail - but here's the basics and the usual test for obscenity under the 59/64 Acts:-

http://www.iwf.org.uk/police/page.22.38.htm


PS Nothing to do with the adult biz in particular. Prob the most highlighted case with the OPA was The Crown v Penguin Books for Lady Chatterley's Lover. The then prosecutor actually asked the jury "Would you allow your manservant to read this book?" Hell knows what the jury thought - they prob wondered what a manservant was and did they have rights over him as regards his reading material I met that prosecutor decades later and came to the conclusion he's a *very* pompous ass living on another planet. He's now (or was) a Crown Court judge - that prob never helped him get into the real world.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by ismokeblunts

are you saying it's legit to push beastiality in north america (excluding mexico)? i thought that was pretty out of bounds in canada & the states...

Somehow I doubt After Shock Media is saying bestality and incest are "legit" in North America.

There are also not "legit" in most countries on the planet - including "third world type shitholes".