Why do some sponsors expect to pay $300 and get $600 products?

[Paul Markham]

I raised this in another thread but think it needs asking in it's own.

Many sponsors today realise the effectiveness and benefits of having great content. They also realise it can't be shot on a shoestring budget, and can't be bought cheap even if it can be produced cheap. Great content has a value to it regardless of the price it costs to create.

A value in traffic by the affiliates it attracts, the galleries accepted, the surfers attention, conversions and retention.

So why do other sponsors think because a guy in the Ukraine who picked up a camera last month/year will shoot it for peanuts every one else should?

Are the making so little they can't afford to pay more?

Or do they not realise the difference between good and bad content? So to them it all converts the same.

Is it worth more to spend money on more traffic than it is to convert more traffic?

Running a paysite with good content is not hard, affiliates and surfers know the difference, it's also very profitable.

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. So don't be surprised or complain if their work is bananas.

[Vlad]

it's called a business competition , you better think about how to improve your marketing then trying to bust a cheap nut here

[DutchTeenCash]

Plus - and thats the nr1 reason why were not buying content in the Ukraine - the mess 'content producers' in the Ukraine create with IDs and releases.

Photoshopped, not there, 'will send later', the horror stories.

EU content only for us. Period.

[DutchTeenCash]

Originally Posted by Vlad

it's called a business competition , you better think about how to improve your marketing then trying to bust a cheap nut here

lol youre funny - Paul doesnt need marketing everyone knows him.

Who are you again?

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by thinkx

lol youre funny - Paul doesnt need marketing everyone knows him.

Who are you again?

[DutchTeenCash]

Originally Posted by Vlad

Brilliant reply. Didn't expect anything else.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by thinkx

Brilliant reply. Didn't expect anything else.

dude , I'll stick your wooden shoes up to your ass.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Vlad

it's called a business competition , you better think about how to improve your marketing then trying to bust a cheap nut here

Too true, I need to improve my marketing so I can shoot complete scenes for $300 a pop.

[DutchTeenCash]

Originally Posted by Vlad

dude , I'll stick your wooden shoes up to your ass.

So basically you're telling me that both me n Paul are right and Ukrainian content producers make one big mess of IDs and releases?

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by thinkx

So basically you're telling me that both me n Paul are right and Ukrainian content producers make one big mess of IDs and releases?

I didn't said that , don't put words in my mouth.

Paul is bitching about Star69 , it's obvious , ain't it ?

Star69 is a guy from Ukraine shooting some content , and recently I see many threads about him and many positive feedbacks from people who bought from him.

You really know what's going on about id releases or you just jumping Paul's wagon ? ask yourself.

If your quality so much better then "some guy with camera from Ukraine" then I guess he's not really competition for you , and therefore you shouldn't be worried and creating such provocation threads...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Vlad

I didn't said that , don't put words in my mouth.

Paul is bitching about Star69 , it's obvious , ain't it ?

Star69 is a guy from Ukraine shooting some content , and recently I see many threads about him and many positive feedbacks from people who bought from him.

You really know what's going on about id releases or you just jumping Paul's wagon ? ask yourself.

If your quality so much better then "some guy with camera from Ukraine" then I guess he's not really competition for you , and therefore you shouldn't be worried and creating such provocation threads...

You truly do not have a clue do you?

I'm not bitching about Star69 at all. I'm bitching about sponsors who think they can buy good quality content for peanuts.

I'm bitching about sponsors who think shooters and models can work 8 hours and produce something that will make a surfer get his wallet out, OK an in general comment but true.

Even if it costs only $5 to produce why sell it for $300, if it will sell 20 times via a broker for $50 a pop?

Good content has a value that has no relationship to it's production costs.

Star69 is taking advantage of these guys, good luck to him.

[DutchTeenCash]

noone mentioned star69 - Ive seen pics from him never dealt with him so I have no clue if hes cool or not

backup your acquisitions before you post something k

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You truly do not have a clue do you?

I'm not bitching about Star69 at all. I'm bitching about sponsors who think they can buy good quality content for peanuts.

I'm bitching about sponsors who think shooters and models can work 8 hours and produce something that will make a surfer get his wallet out, OK an in general comment but true.

Even if it costs only $5 to produce why sell it for $300, if it will sell 20 times via a broker for $50 a pop?

Good content has a value that has no relationship to it's production costs.

Star69 is taking advantage of these guys, good luck to him.

now you sounds much better Paul , that's good.

again as I said , it's all about competition.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Even if it costs only $5 to produce why sell it for $300, if it will sell 20 times via a broker for $50 a pop?

everyone playing different strategies , your biz model is far away from being any standard.

anyhow , let's forget about this mysterious guy from "Ukraine shooting content" we are definatelly not going to point our fingers here , I'm glad you got the point.

good luck to Star69 as well.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Vlad

...
If your quality so much better then "some guy with camera from Ukraine" then I guess he's not really competition for you , and therefore you shouldn't be worried and creating such provocation threads...

Have to agree.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by thinkx

noone mentioned star69 - Ive seen pics from him never dealt with him so I have no clue if hes cool or not

backup your acquisitions before you post something k

then who is some guy from Ukraine mentioned above ?

who are you trying to fool here ?

huh ?

[DutchTeenCash]

Originally Posted by Vlad

then who is some guy from Ukraine mentioned above ?

who are you trying to fool here ?

huh ?

Noone

I was talkin about general Ukrainian photographers, we all had our deals and stories, talked to the owner of a huge program on here yday bout this he told me an alike story as well.

Ripoff, fake docs, it happens and just more often with Ukrainian content producers.

Never said a word bout Star69. If he produces content and has all docs in place and hes good then Im sure many will OK him here.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by pornopete

Here's what I got from this thread so far:

Vlad is a clueless idiot

shut up , fool.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by QuaShe

Have to agree.

Another guy who does not get it.

These guys are not competing with me, I don't want Eva and Katka shooting all day long for peanuts, I don't even want custom work. I'm talking about sponsors who expect to pay $300 and get something worth $600, the prices are relevant.

If you only want to pay rubbish, why do you expect to get quality for it?

The bottom line is if these guys could shoot content that was capable of selling 20 times at $50, again prices relevant, I could buy off them and make a nice profit and have the content for ever. So could any other content provider.

Which is fine.

If you read Star69's thread you will see guys complaining about "Russian" content. The models, clothing, props, make up, locations, images, photography, pornography are not up to scratch. All are complaining the product is not good enough, how many are offering to pay twice as much for the product so the producers can invest more in it?

[darksoul]

why do you worry so much about others ?
If they're doing something wrong more power to you because
you'll get a bigger piece of the pie.

[Paul Markham]

Of course there are many good shooters working on a good budget for good sponsors who understand the value of good content. Like Thinkx and many more.

When I talk about "Russian" photographers it's a bad term. there are good Russian shooters and I have bought from them.

I've seen work from guys in the US, UK, Germany, CZ, HU and other places which sucks. Yet most of them can direct me to a sponsor who is buying it. And it still sucks even if it's on his site.

One of the commonest problems is lack of investment. Shooting too much content on the day, models and shooters are not machines and do not create a lot of excitement much beyond a third scene in a day.

And of course lack of skills/experience. Very common mistakes that are repeated time and time again.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by darksoul

why do you worry so much about others ?
If they're doing something wrong more power to you because
you'll get a bigger piece of the pie.

Every bad site on the Net harms the industry as a whole.

[darksoul]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Every bad site on the Net harms the industry as a whole.

wrong, every bad site make the best ones stand out.
its a free market, if things wouldn't work out for them they'd stop doing it.

[4Man]

Who doesn't think like that.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by darksoul

wrong, every bad site make the best ones stand out.
its a free market, if things wouldn't work out for them they'd stop doing it.

Not nesseary,unless someone install spyware and dialers and other bad things on surfer computer

[darksoul]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Not nesseary,unless someone install spyware and dialers and other bad things on surfer computer

sigh
we're talking about content here.

[edgeprod]

Not everyone is blessed with your amazing intellect, Paul. Be kind to those less fortunate.

[justsexxx]

Maybe they expect low prices from you, because your content/style is overused?

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Another guy who does not get it.

These guys are not competing with me, I don't want Eva and Katka shooting all day long for peanuts, I don't even want custom work. I'm talking about sponsors who expect to pay $300 and get something worth $600, the prices are relevant.

If you only want to pay rubbish, why do you expect to get quality for it?

The bottom line is if these guys could shoot content that was capable of selling 20 times at $50, again prices relevant, I could buy off them and make a nice profit and have the content for ever. So could any other content provider.

Which is fine.

If you read Star69's thread you will see guys complaining about "Russian" content. The models, clothing, props, make up, locations, images, photography, pornography are not up to scratch. All are complaining the product is not good enough, how many are offering to pay twice as much for the product so the producers can invest more in it?

lol don't mind me man I am just here to bug you ;)))

[Rochard]

Paul..... Most of the sponsors you talk of aren't really sponsors but are really more like webmasers who have invested a few thousand dollars into web design and purchsed some content - and are trying to make money but really aren't.

[Ayla_SquareTurtle]

same reason that some people want banners for 23 cents each and galleries 10 for 5 bucks. There are people out there that will do it that cheap, and then people start thinking that's the going rate. It's the same thing in any type of market.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by darksoul

wrong, every bad site make the best ones stand out.
its a free market, if things wouldn't work out for them they'd stop doing it.

Sorry but you are wrong, let's be honest about this we dick around, over sell, lie and mislead the surfer too often. If the "bad" sites were in the minority you would be right. As it is how many surfers say "Fuck this, my credit card stays in my pocket." Compared to those who willingly get them out?

Are you converting 1-100 or 1-1,000? And then what is the industry average?

Do you think it would be a better average if we delivered a better more honest product?

[darksoul]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Sorry but you are wrong, let's be honest about this we dick around, over sell, lie and mislead the surfer too often. If the "bad" sites were in the minority you would be right. As it is how many surfers say "Fuck this, my credit card stays in my pocket." Compared to those who willingly get them out?

Are you converting 1-100 or 1-1,000? And then what is the industry average?

Do you think it would be a better average if we delivered a better more honest product?

Surfers don't think with their pockets when they're horny.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Every bad site on the Net harms the industry as a whole.

man, do you think before you hit submit?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by justsexxx

Maybe they expect low prices from you, because your content/style is overused?

possible

[JD]

Originally Posted by baddog

man, do you think before you hit submit?

rofl no. he's a pompous ass that just says the first thing that comes to mind and enjoys trying to prove that what he said is true/reality even though he knows it's not. I bet paul was on the debate team in highschool

but what do I know... I'm just a n00b.

[pornguy]

Paul the only thing that has gotten me with the prices of some content people is sets of photos 40 photos 80$ and things like that. I am sure that they shot at least 200+ photos of each set. So lets see them.

[Rep]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Every bad site on the Net harms the industry as a whole.

HAHHAHA I don't post here much but I had to login to tell you what a fuck head you are.

deflate your ego for a moment paul, good content is good for business - I agree there, but to be so arrogant to say that bad content hurts the industry is a feat of a true asshole.

this business has always thrived on shitty content, think about almost every half assed porn dvd you've ever seen - they greatly outnumber the quality productions made but yet people still buy porn.

fact.. there are a certain fraction of people who will only wank to high definition full screen movies but the average joe could probably beat off to a stick figure with tits, poor content doesn't hurt the business FREE content hurts the business.

what hurts this industry is petty asinine content producers, webmasters, and program owners who'd rather squabble over whose fault it is the conversion ratio average is now 1:1000 than address the real issues like the government's assault on freedom of speech, the rampant increase of free content, and the lack of reputable agregators (by the way, without which there would be no revenue made from your high and mighty content)

you even stated that surfers and webmasters can tell the difference between high and low quality content (which is obviously true, anyone can look at a quality exclusive scene and know it's not some handy-cam job) but why does it have to cost big $$$? Because that's business and industry average right? Well some people compete on price and these shit-poor "developing" countries can get by pennies on the dollar. No need to be bitter - they obviously do a much worse job than you, but still there's no competition because surfers and webmasters can tell the difference so says you.

think on that for a while.

sincerely,

fuck you

[MikeSmoke]

because it's human nature.
next?

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

I bet paul was on the debate team in highschool

Debate requires that you have SOME respect for a difference of opinion.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by darksoul

Surfers don't think with their pockets when they're horny.

Very true. So taking advantage of them when they are horny and then after you have their money disappointing them is a good, bad or irrelevance?

We are selling a months membership, not a 20 minute membership.

Yes BD I do think.

And I'm not talking about good/bad photography. I'm talking about porn shot on a budget that a good guy will not shoot for and could not get a product out that was that good.

Now everyone who shoots for peanuts can jump in and tell us how fantastic their work is.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by justsexxx

Maybe they expect low prices from you, because your content/style is overused?

So my content/style is over used. Good point. Must be very successful then.

Hang on looking around good porn is very successful.

BD another guy who needs to think longer and harder.

[tical]

I dunno Paul, to be honest a lot of your content compares to the higher end "ukraine" / eastern european content. I was one of the guys that complained about this... the first eastern european content producer to realize that the majority of their content is purchased to be viewed by the US market and gets themselves an awesome stylist will kill shit at the prices they can arrange out there.

The majority of your models don't look like US girls or even girls w/ any sense of current style. Look at their hair, makeup and wardrobe... as a package its just not put together very well. I see a few good ones, but not many.

When I think of quality content I'm looking at Matrix, Perfect Gonzo, Dean Capture, etc... A good chunk of Paul Markham content (and yes I've bought some of it) is pretty much bargain basement stuff.

Your content is ok but don't expect to get any of that real LA money thrown at you 24/7... someone offered you $300 for a scene because most likely they've paid very similar for quality comparable to what you showcase on your own site.

Compare

Paul Markham


Star69


I don't see much of a difference here and if I had to choose to pay $300 or $600... well that's pretty simple to figure out for yourself.

As adult webmasters we're all here to make money and keep costs down and even if you're not doing exclusive deals anymore, etc... you've got some competition that in the near future is going to bring the value of your own work down whether you like it or not.

Oh yea and to imply this post was not ego driven when you've quoted yourself in your sig is pretty funny

Luv ya!

[salesman]

not only sponsors think that way. there are many among us that think the same way.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Rep

you even stated that surfers and webmasters can tell the difference between high and low quality content (which is obviously true, anyone can look at a quality exclusive scene and know it's not some handy-cam job) but why does it have to cost big $$$? Because that's business and industry average right? Well some people compete on price and these shit-poor "developing" countries can get by pennies on the dollar. No need to be bitter - they obviously do a much worse job than you, but still there's no competition because surfers and webmasters can tell the difference so says you.

think on that for a while.

sincerely,

fuck you

I did think on it.

So these guys selling it for low prices are doing so because they can produce it for low prices and even though they can get more for it they would rather sell it for less.

Solo Girl scene set and video = $300 from a sponsor.

Set sold 10 times @ $30 = $300
Video/set sold 10 X $50 = $500
Less broker 50% = $400

Or I buy it and take $500 profit from the deal, without selling it anywhere else.

So they can sell it for $400 but choose to sell it for less. That also goes to Tical. Plus that is a very nice looking girl and a nice looking shot. Maybe I should buy from him and resell it on my store.

Or is it because this is the best price they can get for it because it will not sell via a broker?

[tical]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I did think on it.

So these guys selling it for low prices are doing so because they can produce it for low prices and even though they can get more for it they would rather sell it for less.

Solo Girl scene set and video = $300 from a sponsor.

Set sold 10 times @ $30 = $300
Video/set sold 10 X $50 = $500
Less broker 50% = $400

Or I buy it and take $500 profit from the deal, without selling it anywhere else.

So they can sell it for $400 but choose to sell it for less. That also goes to Tical. Plus that is a very nice looking girl and a nice looking shot. Maybe I should buy from him and resell it on my store.

Or is it because this is the best price they can get for it because it will not sell via a broker?

I think you're assuming that every content producer has a content store? A lot of the eastern european producers deal directly with whoever is buying. They don't have the marketing expertise / personality to sell their products via a content store (at least it appears that way from the way most are treated in threads).

It's pretty simple, they pay $x and sell it for $y and are happy with $z profit. If you can exploit this you should instead of bitching about it silly.

[tical]

If I had all of the customers you have at the paul markham content store I'd definitely be working out an exclusive deal w/ Star69 right now

[aico]

This coming from the guy who has the Bargain Basement content store...

[baddog]

You know, Paul, the primary difference between you and I is that I do not mind the free enterprise system, and you seem to fear it.

You seem to fear that someone with less skills than you can produce and sell product cheaper than you, thus cutting into your cash flow.

I just use that as incentive to provide a better product. Hell, have you ever looked at our rates? We are not cheap by anyone's standards, but our customers know they can get something from us that they can't get elsewhere, and they don't mind paying.

I don't compete with other companies. I don't set my prices based on what others charge. I have faith in our service and product.

If you are as good as you think you are (and I am not saying you aren't, just hinting that maybe you should believe yourself), then you shouldn't give a damn about what some guy from the Ukraine, or Iowa, is doing.

Hell, if your content is so good, why aren't you just shooting for your paysite, and have the best paysite in the entire universe?

I will admit, you did make me laugh with the implication that we are ripping off the consumer by not using your content.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by aico

This coming from the guy who has the Bargain Basement content store...

Irony at its best.

[mikeyddddd]

Fiddy expectations