Why you NEED a competent attorney and why you SHOULD NOT listen to your sponsors

[Snake Doctor]

I'm not going to name names because the intention of this thread isn't to bash anyone, it's to make a point to EVERY webmaster that they need to cover their own ass.

I recently contacted a sponsor to discuss promoting them. They're an up and coming program with some really nice looking sites, producing their own content, and it seems to be cutting edge stuff that will sell really well.

I make a living buying spots on high traffic TGP's. Now because of the new 2257 regulations AND the changes to 2257 recently made in congress, I need to have 2257 docs on hand for anything I publish on any website I own.
Most of you know this, it's pretty simple.

I told this sponsor I would either need copies of the 2257 docs for the content I used, OR I would need them to host the galleries for me on a domain that they own, so that they would be responsible for the docs, not me.
Some forward thinking sponsors already have automated systems in place to do exactly this, because they know the requirements of the law for U.S. webmasters. (nastydollars and bangbros have automated free gallery hosting, naughty america will give you the docs if you join their gold affiliate program....and the list goes on)

This sponsor called their "legal department" who informed them that I didn't need to have the documents, all I had to do was list them as custodian on my website and I would be covered.

Now anyone who has spoken with a competent first amendment attorney in the last 2 years knows this is absolutely false. That if you publish sexually explicit content to the web you are required to have copies of the documents as a "secondary producer"
However if I hadn't been educated previously by two different attorneys on this subject, I may have taken their word for it, published the content, and set myself up to face 5 years in prison for each offense for not having the documents.

The point is this, COVER YOUR ASS. Retain a knowledgeable attorney and do what he says. Don't count on your sponsors attorney, or what your account rep tells you, they're not going to defend you in court if you get arrested.

I feel bad for all the newbs in this biz who figure sponsors must know what they're talking about and take their word as gospel. You could be in for a very rude awakening down the road. Cover your ass, get an attorney, and do what they say to comply.

Sponsors want your traffic, they don't always have YOUR best interest in mind. Remember that.

</ rant>

[DaddyHalbucks]

Looks like solid advice. Any lawyers in the house?

[JD]

nice post and sad at the same time some programs really need to think hard about their current legal backing...

[rockbear]

Really True...Nice post Lenny

[martinsc]

i sell short lawyers....

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

The point is this, COVER YOUR ASS. Retain a knowledgeable attorney and do what he says. Don't count on your sponsors attorney, or what your account rep tells you, they're not going to defend you in court if you get arrested.</ rant>

True dat playa.

You need to CYA, and if your lawyer tells you that you need it, get it. If they do not want to pony up the papers, then you drop them. Fair and balanced.

Your lawyer if the one that would have to defend you when the FBI comes a knockin.

[Webby]

Can't say I've listened to any sponsor for legal advice - it's like listening to a farmer giving free legal advice when buying his land..

Buy hey.. let's hit on reality - the majority of alleged webmasters chasing a dollar would have their annual profits wiped out if they had to waste a day with a real lawyer - nevermind beginning to attempt a legal defense.... And there lies a danger of legal precedents building up for others in this biz.

[Wagerboy]

Best post in a long time. Thank you for the info.

[tony286]

very good thread Len

[eZe]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

I make a living buying spots on high traffic TGP's. Now because of the new 2257 regulations AND the changes to 2257 recently made in congress, I need to have 2257 docs on hand for anything I publish on any website I own.

Most of you know this, it's pretty simple.

I was in the content production business when 2257 passed. We spent a bundle setting up our business model including tons of legal advice and both a US and a Canadian company.

It is true that you need access to the documentation but you don't nec. need paper on hand. We provided both paper and also electronically accessable documentation (web based). The web based documentation was technically enough to statisfy the legal requirment.

With that said they do need to provide you 24/7 access to documents if not paper copies.

[RawAlex]

SInce nobody has tested the secondary records retention in court to date, it isn't truly clear what is and what is not requried. Setting a higher standard for yourself (if you are based in the US) is a very good idea indeeed.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by eZe

I was in the content production business when 2257 passed. We spent a bundle setting up our business model including tons of legal advice and both a US and a Canadian company.

It is true that you need access to the documentation but you don't nec. need paper on hand. We provided both paper and also electronically accessable documentation (web based). The web based documentation was technically enough to statisfy the legal requirment.

With that said they do need to provide you 24/7 access to documents if not paper copies.

When I say "docs" I'm not necessarily referring to paper documents. Digital docs are fine, but you better have them on hand if you get inspected, and I wouldn't trust them to be on someone else's server either.

[bizarredollars]

Cover your ass, get an attorney, and do what they say to comply.

This is very good advice... Even for those of us outside the US... if you are a serious webmaster you NEED the advice... It's expensive, but better than getting buttfucked by bubba further down the line. I actually showed my sites to our local bobby the otherday... He did not know where to look, but had to admit I run a tight ship

[David - PG]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

I need to have 2257 docs on hand for anything I publish on any website I own.... OR I would need them to host the galleries for me on a domain that they own, so that they would be responsible for the docs, not me.

Where does 2257 say the above? It says you are liable to all content YOU "INSERT" INTO A WEBPAGE. It doesn't matter who owns the domain nor who owns the server. You "insert" it, you are liable.

[TuffCall]

bump

[Screaming]

good read.. thanks

[Boobs]

wise words and advice

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by David - PG

Where does 2257 say the above? It says you are liable to all content YOU "INSERT" INTO A WEBPAGE. It doesn't matter who owns the domain nor who owns the server. You "insert" it, you are liable.

nah because that would make the graphic artists who design sites for 3rd parties liable...and that's not exactly the way it works.

Since they own the server, they actually "publish" the content onto the web and take responsibility for it.
Just because I designed the page and selected the clips doesn't mean I "published" the page.