you pay for custom coding - 2 months later your script is avail retail! wtf? [drama] - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Furious_Female · 03-25-2007, 09:32 PM

50 shady programmers

sarettah · 03-25-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog

That's 100% FALSE. You make this shit up or what?

On a work for hire, the person contracting the work owns the rights, not the other way around.

Wrong spacedog.

As a developer, unless specifically stated otherwise, I own the rights to code I create. period.

Now, I have some class, so I do not undercut my clients. If someone comes to me with a project and I develop it and in the end I have something I think could be a product I then go back to my client and say what do you think?

Sometimes the client does not want it distributed, in which case I say cool. In other cases, if they are for it, we split on the proceeds because, in all fairness, it is their idea we worked from.

But, the code is always mine if I designed and wrote it and I never give up my rights to my code. period. The client has license to use the code.

But, as people said earlier in the thread, a contract and ndas would have spelled out the rights and their would be no question at this point.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-25-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarettah

Wrong spacedog.

As a developer, unless specifically stated otherwise, I own the rights to code I create. period.

Now, I have some class, so I do not undercut my clients. If someone comes to me with a project and I develop it and in the end I have something I think could be a product I then go back to my client and say what do you think?

Sometimes the client does not want it distributed, in which case I say cool. In other cases, if they are for it, we split on the proceeds because, in all fairness, it is their idea we worked from.

But, the code is always mine if I designed and wrote it and I never give up my rights to my code. period. The client has license to use the code.

But, as people said earlier in the thread, a contract and ndas would have spelled out the rights and their would be no question at this point.

quantum-x · 03-25-2007, 10:09 PM

This is complete bs, really.

You're right, NDAs should have been signed - but NDAs don't hold up in court. The fact of the matter is the guy is an arsehole.

I've had similar projects: you go to a programmer with ideas, they code them or suddenly feel like they're owed a percentage. Good programmers with ethics and social skills are hard to find.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-25-2007, 10:58 PM

whoops edit

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-26-2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Given how quickly the original poster here went from WTF to NP, I have to wonder if this is just a promo thread for a soon-to-be-released script.

of course i'm like wtf. i would have gladly payed an additional 40% on top of the cost for full rights to the script and i would have sold it myself if i knew this was the bullshit deal i was going to get stuck with.

i have not NP'd anything yet, i am still sour about it, but I have accepted the fact that this is going to pan out however the fuck it pans out. i'm still not naming any names inhopes that it won't go anywhere, but if it does don't think that i won't go throwing around copies of the script to anyone i already like. might as well....

Azoy? · 03-26-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvq

you should of had them sign a contract.

the contract wouldn't mean anything as you don't really know who you signing the contract with. they could put any name down and then try to fight it cause he never sold it to you, but someone he has no idea who is did.
that's what happens when you deal with people sometimes i guess.
especially if it's not face to face cause if it was face to face, you know who you dealing with.
yes it would cost more to get the work done here but at least you know who you dealing with and if things go bad, you can always take them to court for breach of contract.

Azoy? · 03-26-2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

whoops edit

what the fuck is wrong with you saying bodies of 9/11 victims used to fill potholes.
you are one big fucken asshole.

TheDoc · 03-26-2007, 08:06 AM

That sucks.. You should try to get a %, what I would do.

Since we do NATS stuff, clients will come to us with a big head wanting a full custom project. Once we layout a 20-30k price tag, most back off. But what we have done is a build on project idea. You come in, pay $5k - get the $30k scripts and we add to it each time someone buys in, and everyone gets the upgrade.

Otherwise if someone is going to make money on your idea, get a %!

Klen · 03-26-2007, 08:07 AM

Well best way to avoid such problems is to create enterly new script with new code which do same thing.Of course then it still will be idea copy,but you cant prevent that unless you have patent on your idea.

gideongallery · 03-26-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ismokeblunts

like i said, i made the stupid newb mistake of just assuming that paying for custom coding bought you your custom code. end of story.

i paid a fair price to cover the time spent working on the project. i assume that when i pay for something like that, that it is mine afterwards. say you drop top dollar to get your new car painted some wierd fucking color. wouldn't you be chapped if the shop painted 40 other cars the exact same color and sold them all off at half what you paid the next week?

i've designed several blogs for people, i don't just rework blog designs i've already done and hock them off for easy money, or post up the same blog designs a week later offering them for 40 bucks or something...

define fair price, if someone wants a script from me exclusively i get an equity stake in the business for my coding. Otherwise it is just a licience.

As for what to do it depends on what rights you aquired for the script, if he assigned all rights send him a DCMA complient statement.

IF he gave you resell rights under cut him and take his business away from him.

if you only got operational rights your screwed take your lumps like a man

blazin · 03-26-2007, 08:17 AM

You should of come to an agreement with him beforehand.. seriously.

My company has done development work for large organisations and we always insist on keeping the intellectual property.

gideongallery · 03-26-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog

That's 100% FALSE. You make this shit up or what?

On a work for hire, the person contracting the work owns the rights, not the other way around.

I'd sue the bejesus out of the fucker.

Stop asking gfy.. half of these idiots wouldn't know their ass from their elbow.. Go ask an attorney.

The person paying for the project owns the rights.

When you hire a designer to design your site, do they resell it to everyone else after they deliver it to you?

Some people need a fucking clue!

Code is covered by copyright law

according to the canadian copyright act (i am canadian so)

"13. (1) Subject to this Act, the author of a work shall be the first owner of the copyright therein. "

and

"(4) The owner of the copyright in any work may assign the right, either wholly or partially, and either generally or subject to limitations relating to territory, medium or sector of the market or other limitations relating to the scope of the assignment, and either for the whole term of the copyright or for any other part thereof, and may grant any interest in the right by licence, but no assignment or grant is valid unless it is in writing signed by the owner of the right in respect of which the assignment or grant is made, or by the owner?s duly authorized agent. "

the law does grant the employer first right of ownership

"Where the author of a work was in the employment of some other person under a contract of service or apprenticeship and the work was made in the course of his employment by that person, the person by whom the author was employed shall.

but contract of services (standard employment, with all required payments to government institutions-- UI, CPP , full complience with the employement act) is significantly different from contract for services (outsource contract)

scottybuzz · 03-26-2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azoy?

what the fuck is wrong with you saying bodies of 9/11 victims used to fill potholes.
you are one big fucken asshole.

i think he was making a thread but was in the wrong window.

dont be so harsh on jumping the gun there buddy.

as for the topic in hand, legally there is nothing wrong i dont think, but its pretty gay that it happens.

Azoy? · 03-26-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

i think he was making a thread but was in the wrong window.

dont be so harsh on jumping the gun there buddy.

as for the topic in hand, legally there is nothing wrong i dont think, but its pretty gay that it happens.

check my other posting. i apologized as i was brought to the attention of something in particular but he never made me or the rest of the board aware of it in advance when he posted that comment.

Domain Distribution · 03-26-2007, 08:59 AM

If you have nothing to do. don't do it here.

Matt 26z · 03-26-2007, 09:50 AM

If the client comes up with the new and unique ideas behind the script, then the programmer has claim to only the code itself. That is, how the concept was implemented in general, the design... but not what the script actually does. The programmer may not be able to resell it to other clients.

Here is a similar real world analogy.

Let's say I come up with a new invention on paper, but I am totally clueless on how to build it. We'll say it's the first ever lampshade. So I walk into a factory and say, "My concept is to wrap some form of material around a lightbulb that attaches to the lamp with wire, make it happen." They design it's specific look and decide what materials to use.

Can they patent my idea just because they were the first ones to implement it into a working model? Absolutely not. Without a prior agreement, does that mean I can take their design and mass produce my idea in their form? Again, no.

There is only one concept, but there could be 10,000 different designs. So what we've got here is a script (one design) that the programmer owns, but he can't sell again because the client owns the concept. On the other hand if the client also wanted to resell the script (or make it freeware), he would need to have the programmer sign off all rights to his design of the concept (the code in this case).

The client could get a patent on his idea and then sue the programmer for resale profits he is making off it. I don't know if a patent is even needed. Maybe someone here knows for sure.

LadyMischief · 03-26-2007, 09:55 AM

Actually if it was your concept and your script, it was a work for hire and you own the rights to it. If you were to patent the script, your name would be on the patent as it was your concept.

LadyMischief · 03-26-2007, 09:55 AM

Let this be a lesson always have programmers sign NDA's etc.

JDog · 03-26-2007, 10:01 AM

Well did you sign a contract to give you exclusive rights yourself? It's like myself, when I do some custom work, I have a exclusive price (which is usually way, way more expensive) or a non-exclusive (I keep all the rights and can reuse or resale the product if I like). Of course when I do the resale it'll be cheaper than what I charged the person, but they should know that already.

That's my option I give to all of th people I work with. Exclusive or not, right from the get-go.

TampaToker · 03-26-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

You could always really undercut him and release it GPL being it's a word press script. That would make his script sales pretty much worthless, so he likely wouldn't make any more money from it.

I was just gonna post that

WarChild · 03-26-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Actually if it was your concept and your script, it was a work for hire and you own the rights to it. If you were to patent the script, your name would be on the patent as it was your concept.

It doesn't meet the requirments to qualify as a "work for hire" under the US copyright law definition of "work for hire". See earlier in thread.

fris · 03-26-2007, 10:55 AM

god spacedog is a tool

crockett · 03-26-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ismokeblunts

i don't want to hype things too far out of proportion. the script itself is nothing overly unique. it's not a mind shattering breakthrough in technology or anything. basically it is a gallery builder/thumbcropper/image viewer rolled into one with a few seo tpe functions, it works within wordpress and pumps out galleries pretty well. i'd say it's safe to say that it blows arylia out of the water, but i never used arylia that much. i am just pissed that other people are now going to be able to purchase a script i thought would be exclusive and unique to my network, at a fraction of the cost i paid for it.

i'm out on this thread for now, i have work to do (installing my soon to be public script on another new blog actually, woot). the issue has been layed out and i understand where i stand now, the lesson has been learnt, hopefully someone else learns something from my mistake. and if anyone decides its something they want to purchase on release day, you know where to find me, lol

I've talked to a few guys about building that exact same script. So it's not a overly unique idea. Main reason I never did it, is because of the same issue you are going through now.

I figured as soon as I paid to have it written they would turn around and release it themselves and I'd be SOL. My deal is I wanted the resale rights for the script I had written, so 9 times out of 10 if you go to a coder asking for that.. They will just take the idea and do it for themselves.

Back when I first started in this biz I talked to a programer about a idea I had. He tells me it would cost too much and he wasn't interested. About a year later this same guy is teamed up with another guy and they released a service that was loosely based on the idea I talked to him about.

Later this service was sold to another company for big money. So I learned my lesson about talking to people in this industry about ideas unless I know them well or trust them.

IMO your best bet is to always look outside the industry for any of this sort of programing, or best yet look locally. This will cut down the chances of them being able to steal your idea and market it, as they won't have a very good idea on who to market it to.

GTS Mark · 03-26-2007, 11:24 AM

I would sue the living shit out of the guy, obviously if he's doing programming work for hire he obviously doesn't have much of a leg to stand on financially.

When he has to go hire a lawyer for $300+ an hour things will become very real all of a sudden.

Don't let this guy get away with this or he will be doing it to one of us next.

My 2 cents

DH

gideongallery · 03-27-2007, 12:51 PM

i am surprised how many people have gotten this so wrong

Quote:

A work created by an employee within the scope of employment or a work commissioned an author under contract. With a work for hire, the author and copyright owner of a work is the person who pays for it, not the person who creates it. The premise of this principle is that a business that authorizes and pays for a work owns the rights to the work. There are two distinct ways that a work will be classified as “made for hire.”

the work is created by an employee within the scope of employment; or
the work is commissioned, is the subject of a written agreement, or falls within a special group of categories (a contribution to a collective work, a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, a translation, a supplementary work, a compilation, an atlas, an instructional text, a test, or as answer material for a test).

spacedog drinkingHARDEST you need to get new lawyers because they really don't know what they are talking about

Matt 26z · 03-27-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

i am surprised how many people have gotten this so wrong

And I am surprised how many people think this hinges on how you define work for hire. There was a unique idea behind this script, and it wasn't the programmer who conceived it. So this goes far beyond work for hire arguments.

JMM · 03-27-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Non Compete's and Non Disclosure's would have resolved this...
WG

Actually, not. A work for hire agreement would have resolved this.

Absent a work for hire agreement, the programmer owns the code and can do whatever he wants with it.

Does he have a website, maybe the work for hire is incorporated in something published on the site?

At any rate, you should disclose who this programmer is so that others do not fall victim to his shady business practices.

JMM · 03-27-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

If the client comes up with the new and unique ideas behind the script, then the programmer has claim to only the code itself. That is, how the concept was implemented in general, the design... but not what the script actually does. The programmer may not be able to resell it to other clients.

Here is a similar real world analogy.

Let's say I come up with a new invention on paper, but I am totally clueless on how to build it. We'll say it's the first ever lampshade. So I walk into a factory and say, "My concept is to wrap some form of material around a lightbulb that attaches to the lamp with wire, make it happen." They design it's specific look and decide what materials to use.

Can they patent my idea just because they were the first ones to implement it into a working model? Absolutely not. Without a prior agreement, does that mean I can take their design and mass produce my idea in their form? Again, no.

There is only one concept, but there could be 10,000 different designs. So what we've got here is a script (one design) that the programmer owns, but he can't sell again because the client owns the concept. On the other hand if the client also wanted to resell the script (or make it freeware), he would need to have the programmer sign off all rights to his design of the concept (the code in this case).

The client could get a patent on his idea and then sue the programmer for resale profits he is making off it. I don't know if a patent is even needed. Maybe someone here knows for sure.

The issue here is not patent, it is copyright.

Yes, he could file for a patent on the idea, and maybe get issued a patent, and then 5 years from now and $100,000 later sue the programmer and spend another $100,000 to get a worthless judgment.

The problem here is that under the law, the programmer owns the copyright. A work for hire agreement would have resolved this. The relationship here is one of independent contractor, not employee, so there is no ownership of the rights by the guy who hired the programmer.

And will everyone stop saying NDA. NDA's have nothing to do with this.

JMM · 03-27-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

And I am surprised how many people think this hinges on how you define work for hire. There was a unique idea behind this script, and it wasn't the programmer who conceived it. So this goes far beyond work for hire arguments.

It doesn't matter. Absent a work for hire agreement, or any other written contract, the programmer owns the code, period.

zibril · 03-27-2007, 02:01 PM

wtf !!!!

dig420 · 03-27-2007, 03:18 PM

talk to a lawyer. You own the software. Don't listen to these clowns.

JMM · 03-27-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

talk to a lawyer. You own the software. Don't listen to these clowns.

Sorry Dig..you are wrong.

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/con...3874347-1.html

GigoloMason · 03-27-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quantum-x

This is complete bs, really.

You're right, NDAs should have been signed - but NDAs don't hold up in court.

That's not really true. Reason non competes\disclosures tend to not hold up is because so many people write them poorly, and try to make the scope WAY to broad. If you keep it very specific and write it correctly it will be enforceable.

WarChild · 03-27-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

talk to a lawyer. You own the software. Don't listen to these clowns.

The Copyright laws clearly say otherwise. You can read them yourself, it's pretty straight forward.

Jace · 03-27-2007, 03:51 PM

Personally, if it were me, I would package that bitch up and spread it around EVERYWHERE FOR FREE

everywhere you can find throw it out there, torrent sites, usenet, forums, etc....send it to china and back

JMM · 03-27-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigoloMason

That's not really true. Reason non competes\disclosures tend to not hold up is because so many people write them poorly, and try to make the scope WAY to broad. If you keep it very specific and write it correctly it will be enforceable.

My god you people are confused.

NDA's often do hold up in court.

Non-compete's usually don't, at least not as they are written.

HOWEVER, this situation has absolutely nothing to do with NDA's or Non-compete's.

This issue is about copyright. The issue would be addressed in a WORK FOR HIRE AGREEMENT, not a NDA or Non-compete.

Ugggggg.

GigoloMason · 03-27-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMM

My god you people are confused.

NDA's often do hold up in court.

Non-compete's usually don't, at least not as they are written.

Nice to know you felt the need to restate what I just said.

Quote:

This issue is about copyright. The issue would be addressed in a WORK FOR HIRE AGREEMENT, not a NDA or Non-compete.

Ugggggg.

I'm sorry at what point did I you get the impression that was talking about this guy's problem? I was responding to one comment specifically regarding non-competes\disclosures.

Can you just not read, or did you actually have a point? Speaking of confused.

Guess we know what bus you rode to school.

nestle · 03-27-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ismokeblunts

i paid a fair price to cover the time spent working on the project. i assume that when i pay for something like that, that it is mine afterwards.

Don't mean to put it so harshly but... assumptions are the mother of all fuckups. Yes, you did pay him for his time to develop this but in the end, he did develop it. It is his work. Any freelancer you hire as a contractor, there should have been a contract by both of you stating the terms of the work.

Companies that hire freelancers like this (or even temporary part-timers) have contracts primarily for categorizing the product of the contractor's work as "work made for hire". This is to prevent the contractor from taking the work he produced while he was hired. Without this, the contractor has his or her right to get up, take everything he produced during the time and leave with it without a trace of their work.

Search google for "work made for hire". There are plenty of info about it.

gideongallery · 04-01-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

And I am surprised how many people think this hinges on how you define work for hire. There was a unique idea behind this script, and it wasn't the programmer who conceived it. So this goes far beyond work for hire arguments.

if he can prove it is an unique idea then he would have get a patent, and then sue. That would cost him 100k+ or more.

With what he has now, he is SOL.

03-25-2007, 09:32 PM	#51
Furious_Female Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Upstate, New York Posts: 8,187	50 shady programmers __________________ Skype: j3nn.com ICQ 160370494 My current favorite high-converting sponsor: CrakRevenue

03-25-2007, 10:58 PM	#55
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	Bodies 0f 9/11 victims used to fill potholes whoops edit __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com Last edited by SmokeyTheBear; 03-25-2007 at 10:59 PM..

03-26-2007, 08:06 AM	#59
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	That sucks.. You should try to get a %, what I would do. Since we do NATS stuff, clients will come to us with a big head wanting a full custom project. Once we layout a 20-30k price tag, most back off. But what we have done is a build on project idea. You come in, pay $5k - get the $30k scripts and we add to it each time someone buys in, and everyone gets the upgrade. Otherwise if someone is going to make money on your idea, get a %! __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

03-26-2007, 08:17 AM	#62
blazin Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,781	You should of come to an agreement with him beforehand.. seriously. My company has done development work for large organisations and we always insist on keeping the intellectual property. __________________ I don't endorse a god damn thing......

03-26-2007, 08:59 AM	#66
Domain Distribution Ask me about negative cash flow Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 539	If you have nothing to do. don't do it here. __________________ Artifical Intelligence AIM Bot ~ $199.00 [email protected] 238102273

03-25-2007, 10:09 PM	#54
quantum-x Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ICQ: 251425 Fr/Au/Ca Posts: 6,863	This is complete bs, really. You're right, NDAs should have been signed - but NDAs don't hold up in court. The fact of the matter is the guy is an arsehole. I've had similar projects: you go to a programmer with ideas, they code them or suddenly feel like they're owed a percentage. Good programmers with ethics and social skills are hard to find.

03-26-2007, 08:07 AM	#60
Klen Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Little Vienna Posts: 32,235	Well best way to avoid such problems is to create enterly new script with new code which do same thing.Of course then it still will be idea copy,but you cant prevent that unless you have patent on your idea.

03-26-2007, 09:50 AM	#67
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	If the client comes up with the new and unique ideas behind the script, then the programmer has claim to only the code itself. That is, how the concept was implemented in general, the design... but not what the script actually does. The programmer may not be able to resell it to other clients. Here is a similar real world analogy. Let's say I come up with a new invention on paper, but I am totally clueless on how to build it. We'll say it's the first ever lampshade. So I walk into a factory and say, "My concept is to wrap some form of material around a lightbulb that attaches to the lamp with wire, make it happen." They design it's specific look and decide what materials to use. Can they patent my idea just because they were the first ones to implement it into a working model? Absolutely not. Without a prior agreement, does that mean I can take their design and mass produce my idea in their form? Again, no. There is only one concept, but there could be 10,000 different designs. So what we've got here is a script (one design) that the programmer owns, but he can't sell again because the client owns the concept. On the other hand if the client also wanted to resell the script (or make it freeware), he would need to have the programmer sign off all rights to his design of the concept (the code in this case). The client could get a patent on his idea and then sue the programmer for resale profits he is making off it. I don't know if a patent is even needed. Maybe someone here knows for sure.

03-26-2007, 09:55 AM	#68
LadyMischief Orgasms N Such! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Ontario Posts: 18,135	Actually if it was your concept and your script, it was a work for hire and you own the rights to it. If you were to patent the script, your name would be on the patent as it was your concept. __________________ ICQ 3522039 Content Manager - orgasm.com [email protected]

03-26-2007, 10:01 AM	#70
JDog Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canby, OR Posts: 7,453	Well did you sign a contract to give you exclusive rights yourself? It's like myself, when I do some custom work, I have a exclusive price (which is usually way, way more expensive) or a non-exclusive (I keep all the rights and can reuse or resale the product if I like). Of course when I do the resale it'll be cheaper than what I charged the person, but they should know that already. That's my option I give to all of th people I work with. Exclusive or not, right from the get-go. __________________ NSCash now powering ReelProfits.com ALSO FEATURING: NSCash.com :: SoloDollars.com :: ReelProfits.com :: BiminiBucks.com :: VOD PROGRAMS COMING SOON: Greedy Bucks :: Vengeance Cash NOW OFFERING OVER 60 SITES CONTACT :: JAMES SMITH :: CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER :: ICQ (711385133)

03-26-2007, 10:55 AM	#73
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,359	god spacedog is a tool __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

03-26-2007, 11:24 AM	#75
GTS Mark Vrume Mark Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 20,912	I would sue the living shit out of the guy, obviously if he's doing programming work for hire he obviously doesn't have much of a leg to stand on financially. When he has to go hire a lawyer for $300+ an hour things will become very real all of a sudden. Don't let this guy get away with this or he will be doing it to one of us next. My 2 cents DH

03-27-2007, 02:01 PM	#81
zibril Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 731	wtf !!!!

03-27-2007, 03:18 PM	#82
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	talk to a lawyer. You own the software. Don't listen to these clowns.

03-27-2007, 03:51 PM	#86
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	Personally, if it were me, I would package that bitch up and spread it around EVERYWHERE FOR FREE everywhere you can find throw it out there, torrent sites, usenet, forums, etc....send it to china and back