Conference With Judge Miller Re: 2257

This is 1 reason to be a part of the FSC. For those of you who aren't, joining is only helping your future!
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On Wednesday, April 25th in Colorado, Federal District Court Judge Walker Miller held a status conference with the Free Speech Coalition and Government attorneys. The conference was requested by FSC attorneys, in cooperation with government litigators after Judge Miller?s ruling of March 30, 2007 dismissing some causes of action and allowing others to proceed in light of the Adam Walsh Act amendments to 18 U.S.C. § 2257 enacted on July 27, 2006.

Result of the status conference:
We are awaiting the Court?s minute order. Upon issuance of that Order, it will be posted on our website along with attorney comments. It is expected that the Judge will dissolve portions of the preliminary injunction which ordered the Government not to inspect secondary producers. That does not mean that inspections of secondaries are likely in the foreseeable future.

What Does This Mean For Secondary Producers?
Our litigation team has stated the following: ?We have no reason to anticipate imminent inspections of secondary producers. The reasoning underlying Judge Miller?s preliminary injunction remains valid; that is, prior to July 27, 2006, there was no statutory authority for record-keeping by secondary producers. We are awaiting regulations which will announce the Department of Justice?s position on what secondary producers? responsibilities are under the July 27, 2006 amendments.?

FSC Board Chair and First Amendment attorney Jeffrey J. Douglas adds, ?We are all confident that no court would allow a retroactive obligation to be placed upon secondary producers for which there was no lawful authority when they acquired the images. Furthermore, until the new regulations are finalized, how can any secondary know what their obligations are? For instance, they cannot comply with the regulations applicable to primary producers ? actual inspection of the original ID is impossible for a secondary producer.?

Should there be any indication that the Government is claiming such authority, the Free Speech Coalition will immediately seek another court order. FSC will provide regular updates on the status of 2257 as the case unfolds through our weekly XPRESS newsletter, e-mail alerts and posting on our websites.

[Humpy Leftnut]

Anyone mind telling me what the Adam Walsh business is? I think I missed that..

As for us, we've played it super safe as a secondary producer on both my sites, and it's KILLING us.

Not killing the sales, but killing the options for the future. I find myself with competitors who have ignored 2257 altogether, some who have made small changes, we made vast changes, and I wish we could just go back to how it used to be.

I'm not able to do at least 4 things i want to because of 2257 complications.

[billybathgate]

thanks shermsshack keep us updated

[Humpy Leftnut]

For example our screenshots!

http://www.pornsumer.com/sites/hands-on-hardcore/

We use stars like this. Apparently this does 0 for us, and we're still breaking 2257! But at least we tried. Alexa just posts them hardcore. Some of our competitors just post them hardcore. I wish I could, then I wouldn't have to do them all manually.

I wish I could post screenshots of the members area, as some sites do. But what, more stars, all over the place? Fuck it.

Really not sure what to do here.

[pornguy]

Adam Walsh thing is about using the murder of his child to move his own political gains. he does not give a shit one way or the other, as long as he is getting paid.

they paid him to use the name.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

For example our screenshots!

http://www.pornsumer.com/sites/hands-on-hardcore/

We use stars like this. Apparently this does 0 for us, and we're still breaking 2257! But at least we tried. Alexa just posts them hardcore. Some of our competitors just post them hardcore. I wish I could, then I wouldn't have to do them all manually.

I wish I could post screenshots of the members area, as some sites do. But what, more stars, all over the place? Fuck it.

Really not sure what to do here.

If they get the law the way that they want it, even that photo will require you to have 2257.

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

For example our screenshots!

http://www.pornsumer.com/sites/hands-on-hardcore/

We use stars like this. Apparently this does 0 for us, and we're still breaking 2257! But at least we tried. Alexa just posts them hardcore. Some of our competitors just post them hardcore. I wish I could, then I wouldn't have to do them all manually.

I wish I could post screenshots of the members area, as some sites do. But what, more stars, all over the place? Fuck it.

Really not sure what to do here.

The new regs would make that even necessary for 2257 docs....Editing a h/c image is still seen as a h/c image by law.

[Humpy Leftnut]

Exactly. So now I'm to the point where it's like, fuck it? Just post it anyways? Move hosting outside of the USA and be done with it.

What kills me is they won't go after Google or Alexa or the other big mainstream sites either, when they don't even go the trouble of censoring their screenshots at all.

In fact I heard that their argument would be that they're done automatically, and there's too many for them to really do themselves by hand.. Maybe I'll set it up auto and claim the same, if asked?

I don't know.. I've proven I will jump through hoops. I took down over 10,000 images on June 23rd or whatever, that FIRST day.. And replaced them with softcore images, to the best of my ability to judge what's hardcore.. I'm sure I failed in hundreds of instances, but meh I tried.

[Humpy Leftnut]

Hey as a secondary affiliate, maybe we could get an "industry standard" letter that I give to sponsors to sign, stating they'll hand over documents if needbe for legal reasons only? I think I'd feel safe enough like that.. But again, what the fuck do I know? In all the times I've asked our lawyers, I usually get something like "depends on how much risk you want to take" and the amount of risk is NEVER NONE.

[StickyGreen]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

Exactly. So now I'm to the point where it's like, fuck it? Just post it anyways? Move hosting outside of the USA and be done with it.

What kills me is they won't go after Google or Alexa or the other big mainstream sites either, when they don't even go the trouble of censoring their screenshots at all.

In fact I heard that their argument would be that they're done automatically, and there's too many for them to really do themselves by hand.. Maybe I'll set it up auto and claim the same, if asked?

I don't know.. I've proven I will jump through hoops. I took down over 10,000 images on June 23rd or whatever, that FIRST day.. And replaced them with softcore images, to the best of my ability to judge what's hardcore.. I'm sure I failed in hundreds of instances, but meh I tried.

For the millionth time, it doesn't matter where you host. If you are an American citizen, especially if you are currently living here, then you need to obey the laws...

[Humpy Leftnut]

Ahhh thanks.. Canadian anyways, but I do have a US company that needs to be careful!

[tony286]

good to hear they are keeping up the good fight

Originally Posted by tony404

good to hear they are keeping up the good fight

Very true. Some thought they were going to lay down.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

Anyone mind telling me what the Adam Walsh business is? I think I missed that..

As for us, we've played it super safe as a secondary producer on both my sites, and it's KILLING us.

Not killing the sales, but killing the options for the future. I find myself with competitors who have ignored 2257 altogether, some who have made small changes, we made vast changes, and I wish we could just go back to how it used to be.

I'm not able to do at least 4 things i want to because of 2257 complications.

Yeah it sucks for those of us in the US because we have to compete with people who are under no obligation to abide by 2257. The US government thinks they do, but who cares. What can they do to non-US violators? NOTHING. This is the only business that the government doesn't care if other countries have an unfair advatage. In any other business the government is up in arms screaming at the WTO about unfairness.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

For the millionth time, it doesn't matter where you host. If you are an American citizen, especially if you are currently living here, then you need to obey the laws...

You are right on that ... and this coming from a " foreign " host....

If you are in the US, hosting outside only gives you, as an advantage, that he site could not be closed down as easely as in the USA. FBI would have to be " embedded " with the local police forces to serve a warrant, otherwise the sites stays up .... ( in respect to 2257 ).

If you are not in the USA, you would be pretty dumb to host in the USA and expose yourself to the penalties of these paper pusher laws... wake up!

Now you can choose a US host that has boxes in a foreign DC , that bills in US currency and that its corp is in the USa ( do the maths yourself ), or one that the boxes are in a foreign DC, charges in foreign currency and that its corp is in a foreign country....

[suesheboy]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

We use stars like this. Apparently this does 0 for us, and we're still breaking 2257!

Not only doesn't that work, you just admitted knowledge of your own guilt in a public forum.

Not too bright dude.

Comply with the laws or remove any questionable content.

As for me I am selling my adult domains (see sig) and kissing the paysite end of this biz good bye.

(toys still rock!)

[MrPinks]

I'm in the same boat as you. It sucks.

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

Anyone mind telling me what the Adam Walsh business is? I think I missed that..

As for us, we've played it super safe as a secondary producer on both my sites, and it's KILLING us.

Not killing the sales, but killing the options for the future. I find myself with competitors who have ignored 2257 altogether, some who have made small changes, we made vast changes, and I wish we could just go back to how it used to be.

I'm not able to do at least 4 things i want to because of 2257 complications.