Affiliate Traffic and Paysite SEO [biz related]

[FightThisPatent]

I posted up on my recent xbiz blog on this topic of "Affiliate Traffic and Paysite SEO"

For those who need cliff notes:

Sponsor programs should be using good SEO techniques to capture SE traffic that doesn't require a PPS or revshare of the acquired members, that can lead to higher earnings.


My observations of paysites, is so many are not doing the SEO things like adding in META keywords and descriptions, etc.

Are paysites not doing this because they feel it might take away from affiliates? Or does it mean the web designers aren't doing their job? Or paysites not paying attention to their own SE strategies?

Do you think as an affiliate, its fair game for a paysite to try and get their own SE traffic? To submit to TGP/MGP sites? To submit videos to peer-sharing sites?

My summary is:

By diversifying traffic sources, Sponsors could gain additional revenue that would help to offset their marketing and operational costs, in addition to maybe turning down or turning off that shave function - the greedier ones will just keep it going.



thoughts?

Fight the after shave!

[TurboAngel]

It's nice to see ya, I haven't seen you around in a bit.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by TurboAngel

It's nice to see ya, I haven't seen you around in a bit.

Nothing to "fight" right now LOL



Fight the Fight!

[FightThisPatent]

Link to my blog entry:
http://www.xbiz.com/blogs/blog.php?catid=59#23274

Fight the link challenged!

[TurboAngel]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

Nothing to "fight" right now LOL



Fight the Fight!

You still should come around more often hun!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by TurboAngel

You still should come around more often hun!

well, here i am

your thoughts on the thread topic?


Fight the inquiring minds want to know!

[Stephen McTowelie]

Well gotta say i ve noticed this too it does seem that its a web design issue and the lack of metas etc is down to lazy web designers

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Stephen McTowelie

Well gotta say i ve noticed this too it does seem that its a web design issue and the lack of metas etc is down to lazy web designers

That's sad then... since adding in meta keywords and descriptions is easy work for the designer to do and little things like these inclusions would help with SE stuff.

So does this mean paysite owners aren't watching the store?

case in point, a gigacash program (picking them out of the air, there are so many to choose from), spot checking through the list, and no meta tags on first page, or second page: http://www.clubstrawberry.com


Fight the lights on but no one is home!

[Kevin Marx]

getting my site worked on over the next week or two. SEO is just as important as everything else.

Do I think it's fair game for me as the site owner to get my own traffic???? LOL.. not to be rude, but it's more my responsibility than the affiliates. I love affiliates, they are great, they help to make the world go round... but if I can't sell my own product, that means I am leaving it up to you. I am a little to much of a control freak to leave my success up to other people.

Besides, any sale I get by myself is a revenue share I don't have to split with someone else. It is a business after all. I am perfectly happy to work with affiliates and make them money (because in turn, they make me money as well), but I have a resposibility to my product to do what I can to make it grow and keep it successful.... that includes SEO, posting my own TGP/MGP for traffic, etc etc.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Kevin-SFBucks

getting my site worked on over the next week or two. SEO is just as important as everything else.

thanks for posting up from a paysite owner point of view. i did check out your site, and you are just as guilty as other paysites for not doing the simple SEO stuff

Site looks great already, i am sure the new design will shine even more (and include the META headers).


Fight the under construction!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Kevin-SFBucks

..... but I have a resposibility to my product to do what I can to make it grow and keep it successful.... that includes SEO, posting my own TGP/MGP for traffic, etc etc.

WIth new peer/social sharing sites like pornotube, xtube, etc...it seems that paysites have an opportunity to get 'free' traffic, by giving away 'free' content, by submitting to these kinds of places.

Sponsors have the advantage of (usually) having the 2257 documentation.. so if these sharing sites ask for it (which they should), sponsors can deliver.. and potentially get traffic for giving away content that they have the ability to do so (ie. referring to the fact that many have exlcusive content or shoot their own content, that they don't have a licensing issue).

I am referring to these xxxxxxxtube kind of sites as being surfer traffic aggregators.. where through word of mouth, etc.. surfers will find the websites and be able to view the content.

So with some watermarking and/or backlinks from the aggregator website, these kinds of sites could prove to be more 'free' traffic in addition to search engines.

Youtube has been doing alot of cleanup in regards to copyright infringements, but probably 2257 cleanup is due..

There is no question the abundance of 'free porn' out there, that makes it harder for affiliates to get a sale.. with conversion numbers getting higher (ie. 1:1000+)... surfers are wanting more before they buy.

The more successful affiliates are buying their traffic and playing the money game of numbers.

Since the cost of being an affiliate webmaster is relatively low, i don't predict any lowering of affiliates, if anything, i see it potentially growing more so, but it means more with have to look at this as a marketing hobby and lower the expectations of quitting the day job, to sit back and make money on the net.



Fight the placing of tiny ads at the back of the internet!

[pornguy]

Funny that you talk about this. Epic Cash is in the process of working on the SE aspects of our sites. the tricky part is that there are so many tours.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by pornguy

Funny that you talk about this. Epic Cash is in the process of working on the SE aspects of our sites. the tricky part is that there are so many tours.

one thing that i see alot is the affiliate links are going to a central domain... where in the link is the affiliate ID, and then the site ID.. and the script then redirects to the right domain.

one major SEO factor is the backlinking... so a website like epicbooty.com's affilaite links will help with the backlinking points for google pagerank.

(noticed that home page of epicbooty.com doesn't have meta tags, but that's probalby what you will be addressing soon... and part of the point of this thread is to bring attention to this marketing error i see on many paysites).

Other sites that link to a common domain, will not get the backlinking benefits and to a Search Engine, the paysite will look like an orphan with no linking relationships.

Some affiliates will use internal redirection, where instead of linking to the paysite, they redirect internally. This is usually done to track clicks on their side.. but can also be done to not benefit the paysite.. since backlinks from the affiliate link helps the paysite.

Where this strategy might backfire on the affiliate, is now their site doesn't show any external linking relationships.. which is also a factor in SE ranking.

So for those programs that do have affiliate links to the paysite, and are doing good SEO things like meta tags, you could be benefitting from some SE traffic.


Fight the redirection!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by pornguy

...the tricky part is that there are so many tours.

just need to write perl script to walk through your directory tree and scan tour page for the META tags. if not present, add them in. if they are there, replace with new stuff.

this kind of script will be useful to make global changes.. including things like adding in ASACP's Restricted to Adults label (link) so that its easy to add in new HEAD elements.

I use the approach to manage 5,000 virtual host domains with my perl scripts that creates the pages, so when i need to do an update, i recompile all the sites, and the new information is put in.. whether it be new design or header/footer or SEO information.

I know so many were doing hardcoding and creating the static pages by hand, but the move using programming and automation will greatly cut down on headaches and allow for faster rollout of changes.

You may not be able to count on the web designer to deliver you tours with the SEO elements in.. This same script could add on additional footer information, and additional SEO verbiage beyond the graphics on a page that help with SEO.


Fight the scripts kiddies!


ps. if you have a large portfolio of adult or mainstream domains (ie over 100), hit me up on icq to chat about monetizing those domains for you, rather than leaving them in parked status.

[FightThisPatent]

Fight the lunchtime bump!

[Cyndalie]

*whistling while she works*

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Cyndalie

*whistling while she works*

LOL.. that would be like preaching to the choir Ms. SEO Guru herself.

I just did a spot check of the 12clicks cash program sites.. and i do see you have your Meta tags in place...

U getting SE joins?


Fight the whistleblower!

[TheDoc]

Their is a good reason why paysites don't do it. Some should, some shouldn't, not all can and not all should.

SE paysites are different sites than affiliate traffic driven sites. Adding in title and description tags will make the sites rank better but it isn't going to give them more or better rankings, past crap. A site that converts for the SE's probably isn't going to do so well on TGP traffic, word marketing is why.

Also, to really benefit from these changes, affiliate programs have to use the right type of linking codes, get webmasters to link with proper anchor text, adjust hosted galleries to feed in keyword cones and link correctly too.

It's amazing how little the tour has to do with it - when the back of the network is setup correctly.

So, why don't paysites do it? Because for years it hasn't made a difference. And it only does when the entire network adjusts for SEO. Which means, it may not be affiliate traffic friendly.

[TheDoc]

Title/desc tags doesn't mean they aren't targeting the SE's either, it means they aren't working Google, and with the lack of page text on most tours, it isn't going to help much anyway.

Yahoo eats up paysites rather well due the broken linking structure and mass backlink to a page with little care for the anchor text. MSN too.

Many do target Google, I have some sites built to target google and others for yahoo. Some keywords in Yahoo have more US searches with less bounce rates.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

Sponsor programs should be using good SEO techniques to capture SE traffic that doesn't require a PPS or revshare of the acquired members, that can lead to higher earnings.


My observations of paysites, is so many are not doing the SEO things like adding in META keywords and descriptions, etc.

Are paysites not doing this because they feel it might take away from affiliates? Or does it mean the web designers aren't doing their job? Or paysites not paying attention to their own SE strategies?

thoughts?

Trust me when I say I have spoken to many programs regarding their SEO, or lack thereof, and an overwhelming number of them give me the same response: "We don't want to compete with our affiliates."

Personally, this is a thought process that I never could grasp from a business perspective. I suspect that it has more to do with a lack of knowledge on proper SEO technique, and just figure it is cheaper to pay affiliates than to hire someone that does know SEO (or to train someone to do SEO).

I think T3 has proven the basic fear of the unknown. They would rather spend thousands on dinner and drinks than a fraction of that on good tools.

[Kevsh]

I'm not sure I'm reading you correctly but since so many posts in this thread are talking about META tags ... Let me state that the absence or inclusion of META tags on a site (sponsor or otherwise) is not any indication of whether they consider SEO important!

Otherwise, I agree with the idea that sponsors should be working hard at SEO - it's just about insane not to! Consider the cost of paying affiliates vs. SEO work and it's a no-brainer. It's almost free traffic and far more targeted (and therefore likely to convert) vs. 90% of what your affiliates offer.

I know that some affiliates disagree with this philosophy because they feel the sponsor is competing with them for traffic. Affiliates that have this mindset are probably that ones that register sapphicerotica.us, ravenrileynude.biz, etc. etc. - i.e. their motives are clear

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Stephen McTowelie

Well gotta say i ve noticed this too it does seem that its a web design issue and the lack of metas etc is down to lazy web designers

Why would you put the responsibility of Meta tags on designers? Hell, you still have a ton of them that think FLASH is the end all, be all of design when it is a proven fact that it is the absolute worst when it comes to SEO?

[TheDoc]

Affiliate programs should add in better title and desc tags and some body text, that all relates. This will help you get better targeted phrase words very quickly, I call this 33% SEO.

A paysite may already get 1000 hits a day from the SE's, make this adjustments, get 1300 - then they will probably come back down to 1000. Reason is, they went from a YAHOO SEO style to a GOOGLE style...

So, the 33% seo rule didn't really make them anymore money, so they give up. This is where most are, they have put in good title/desc before, with little to no difference. So why continue?

The key isn't the tours, the key is the entire damn affiliate program structure, from the linking codes, internal linking, to how they are linking too, to how they build hosted galleries, does every hosted gallery have a unique title/desc/body text, every tour page, every promo page? Do galleries use anchor text - do graphic links use title tags?

And pure SEO paysites does not convert affiliate traffic very well. Don't we create custom adword landing pages to target words, for conversions? Wouldn't it makes since this would affect affiliate traffic too?

Don't be too quick to push all your sponsors to follow the SEO route.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

So, why don't paysites do it? Because for years it hasn't made a difference. And it only does when the entire network adjusts for SEO. Which means, it may not be affiliate traffic friendly.

i'm not following you here....

we both agree, it takes like 0 effort to atleast do some basic SEO coding of a page.

and that traffic received is still a potential for the surfer to join...

how is it any different than if any affiliate attracted that SE surfer and then the surfer clicked to the paysite?

I can understand the point about maybe that surfer is now more "qualified" (which is what i preach), but if a surfer types in search terms, and a paysite comes up because their site matches those keywords due their website content, then the surfer is qualified to view/visit that website.

SE traffic is free... and by doing simple SEO stuff, you can only benefit. Doing nothing, you don't even get the chance.

Now, if you believe that an affiliate will not promote a sponsor due them applying SEO techniques.. that would be interesting to hear more about.


Fight the nonqualified traffic!

[Cyndalie]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

LOL.. that would be like preaching to the choir Ms. SEO Guru herself.

I just did a spot check of the 12clicks cash program sites.. and i do see you have your Meta tags in place...

U getting SE joins?


Fight the whistleblower!

Don't make me gag you!


(Yes, of course we are)

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

So, the 33% seo rule didn't really make them anymore money, so they give up. This is where most are, they have put in good title/desc before, with little to no difference. So why continue?

if it doesn't hurt, but can only help. that's why you do it. Once a title, or META tags are in, they require no work. I have never heard of doing such things that penalized any search engine ranking opportunities. So why continue? because it doesn't hurt and just leaves potential traffic out there for someone else.

Sponsors can utilize the exact same techniques as affiliates to gain SE traffic.. affiliate's traffic isn't any "better" than ones that come direct from SE.

What i am taking from your observations, is that sponsor programs are essentially giving up their marketing responsibilities to affiliate system.

Kevin posted in here that he should/would be trying to get as much traffic to his sites.. and i agree.. as a business owner one should.... but it seems its easier (and no work) to let the affiliates be the ones that buy traffic, that use multiple websites as doorways, etc, etc, etc....

The business concern is much like any other situation of putting your eggs in one traffic basket.

Sponsors should be concerned when you hear affiliates who turn into paysites... they took the time to aggregate the traffic to them to fan out, but then decide to funnel to themselves.

The cost for content is much lower along with bandwidth.. and with traffic, the last component in the formula for success.

So affiliates will do what is in their best interest to make money which is to become a paysite themselves.. likewise with sponsor programs, i thnk they shoujld push to diversifying their traffic.

Shaving has been written off as almost an accepted practice because it allows for a sponsor to stay in business, instead of being a victim of success of conversion and the failure for retention.... flipside, many would argue that if they couldn't rebill, then they probably deserved to fail and shaving is just a subsidary crutch to cheat along as life support.

There is certainly more to SEO than just titles and META tags.. but its not to me the big black mystery that so many claim it to be.. and it was an interesting observation as i go through affiliate programs, to see so many who don't include some basic SEO elements, that could help them get additional 'free' traffic.


Fight the apathy!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Cyndalie

Don't make me gag you!


(Yes, of course we are)

That can't be.. according to TheDoc... that traffic doesn't convert

or even better heard at webmaster access couple of years ago at a traffic panel (the one where i had those plastic hats for audience participation) "there's no money in SEO". (yes, wired guy was laughing)

speaking of gagging, does 12clicks appear as a stunt double on any of your content photo shoots ?



Fight the paparazzi!

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

i'm not following you here....

we both agree, it takes like 0 effort to atleast do some basic SEO coding of a page.

and that traffic received is still a potential for the surfer to join...

SE traffic is free... and by doing simple SEO stuff, you can only benefit. Doing nothing, you don't even get the chance.

The thing is, not having desc or what the "standard" of optimization is, doesn't mean your site isn't optimized - it means they aren't google friendly. Bad tours with even a small amount of text and just a title tag can make great yahoo & msn sites.

how is it any different than if any affiliate attracted that SE surfer and then the surfer clicked to the paysite?

I can understand the point about maybe that surfer is now more "qualified" (which is what i preach), but if a surfer types in search terms, and a paysite comes up because their site matches those keywords due their website content, then the surfer is qualified to view/visit that website.

We create custom land pages for search engines, we pull in the keyword phrases to insert into the pages, our ads / title tags included targeted keywords.. All these factors produce higher click and sales rates.

With this, also goes with the bounce/exit rate of keywords. Words that work well with porn surfers may have a very high bounce rate on search engines.

This is how people end up making so much money from SEO/Adwords, ect.

Now, if you believe that an affiliate will not promote a sponsor due them applying SEO techniques.. that would be interesting to hear more about.

Fight the nonqualified traffic!

No paysite/affiliate network that I have seen, within adult, is setup with full SEO in mind. Do I think Webmasters would use it, Yes! Would they continue, Nope! Most Webmasters wouldn't be able to convert the tours.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

That can't be.. according to TheDoc... that traffic doesn't convert

or even better heard at webmaster access couple of years ago at a traffic panel (the one where i had those plastic hats for audience participation) "there's no money in SEO". (yes, wired guy was laughing)

Fight the paparazzi!

"that traffic doesn't convert".. Please don't insert words out of context, if you are unsure of the meaning, then ask.

Their is no money in seo, most people should stick to what they already make money on. (this has been blogged about many times) It has been proven getting seo bug can draw away from other income streams, and seo is not a perm marketing solution unless your life is dedicated to it.

And please re frame from talking about any show in this industry and seo, it makes me laugh.

Fight the hypocrisy!