6 more canadians soldiers killed in Afganistan

[Jman]

Is that how we keep the peace, with our soldiers getting killed

[BT]

draft dodgers

[aico]

Canada has soldiers? Why?

[BT]

fucking afghans are a bunch of sand nizzles

[Bryan G]

Originally Posted by aico

Canada has soldiers? Why?

God here we go again

[who]

Sad

[SilkyJohnson]

Originally Posted by aico

Canada has soldiers? Why?

Originally Posted by Platinum Bryan

God here we go again

[Dirty Dane]

Soldiers get killed in war. Thats a fact.

[DatingGold]

that sucks

[SilentKnight]

Another sad day for Canadians.

[Spunky]

Get our troops out of there..this is too many

[yys]

Originally Posted by Spunky

Get our troops out of there..this is too many

I doubt you would find one person who actually has their life on the line over there who would agree with you.

[TheLegacy]

waiting to hear the comparison vs. american soldiers killed

too much for too long

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by yys

I doubt you would find one person who actually has their life on the line over there who would agree with you.

based on your vast knowledge ?????

[yys]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

based on your vast knowledge ?????

Why don't you head on over here http://army.ca/forums/ and find out for yourself.

I'm sure they will take quite kindly to you.

[Spunky]

Our troops are very brave men/women but this is getting ridiculous.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by yys

Why don't you head on over here http://army.ca/forums/ and find out for yourself.

I'm sure they will take quite kindly to you.

Of course they are supportive of their friends. They've been trained to obey orders and respect the decisions of their commanders. I'm sure that they aren't being told that they are keeping the peace in Iraq so Haliburton can make a few billion dollars, or so Exxon can get some cheaper oil.

It's also difficult for them to get an honest view of the war. The US military for instance bans their soldiers from going to websites with actual opinions.

[yys]

Here's a video of the the operation the soldiers that died today were coming back from.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0H0O7JJKUb8


and here is a Canadian soldiers personal observations on the political realities of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan

The "Taliban" are not an Afghan culture to begin with. They are a culture of religious extremism, and more to the point they aren't Afghan to begin with because many of the "Taliban" are not Afghans, but nationals from Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc. They are a product of the madrassas, not Afghanistan. They can't pull off a nation based on religious extremism back home (think of their aims as The Free State Project in reverse), but up until now Afghanistan has been ripe for the picking.

In short, those who complain about our interfering with "their culture" are in fact complaining about Canada interdicting a brutal invading culture made up of many people just as foreign to Afghanistan as Canadians. The difference is Canadians hope to give native Afghans a foundation for survival and growth and then leave; the Taliban intend to build nothing other than a base for religious extremism without government interference, and they have no intention of ever leaving unless driven out. Nor do they intend to allow Afghanis the right to live based on their prior culture - it will be culture as dictated by the Taliban or a brutal death.

Various "pundits" keep commenting on how the Taliban are gathering strength, particularly when they mention the Northern Alliance. They sell this as evidence of Afghans increasingly supporting the Taliban.

This is nonsense. The difference is, of course, that the Northern Alliance is almost entirely Afghanis. The Taliban don't draw only from Afghanis after they get their asses kicked time and time again and get slaughtered by the score. They send out the call to every wannabe Muslim extremist in the world to come fight for them in their attempt to win Afghan back as a base for their Muslim extremism (and the actual Afghan Muslim population be damn3d). And so, the madrassas in Pakistan and elsewhere send more fighters brainwashed from childhood to fight and die in the name of their twisted version of Allah (and once again, the Afghan Muslims be damn3d). Claiming that the products of madrassas in foreign countries coming to fight with the Taliban in Afghanistan is evidence of Afghanis turning to support the Taliban is ridiculous.

On the one hand, this constant influx of brutal Muslim fanatics makes progress in Afghanistan much slower than it could be. On the other hand, if all those happy to murder and slaughter in the name of the Taliban's version of Allah want to travel to Afghanistan to concentrate themselves in an environment like Afghanistan, it certainly makes the Three "F"s Of Land Combat much easier to attain. A better situation for us, although hard on Afghanis. On the other hand, they're going to come anyways, especially if the Taliban win in the end, and they'll slaughter and enslave Afghan Muslims anyways, so they aren't any worse off and foreign assistance is only the real hope of a decent future they have.

In the end, it comes down to the Genovese syndrome, I suppose. At what point do people start feeling there is a basic human obligation to defend others against evil? Many people felt it wasn't our problem when the Nazi Party was slaughtering Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, etc. That attitude hasn't stopped since: witness Yugo, Rwanda, the Congo, etc. If they or their family ain't bleedin' then it ain't their problem. For different people there's a different boundary: not a few people would see your wife being rap3d or beaten and go "Not my wife; not my problem". Others of course would be outraged and wonder by someone should be so callous and feel they had no business interfering.

I guess it just depends on what your moral tolerance for slaughter is. And perhaps for some, a belief that one should not interfere unless one can do it absolutely perfectly with a guarantee of not a single slip or mishap while doing so. No accidental deaths, no friendly fire incidents, nothing:
everything perfect and beyond criticism from beginning to end.

Canadian troops are heavily behind this because many of them or their fireteam partners have had the educational opportunity of uncovering mass graves in Yugo and Rwanda - that tends to be a life altering experience that many who blithely claim we should just let them go at it haven't had. Guys don't go over there for the love of war and because they enjoy being away from their wives and family for a year, living in an environment that kicks the ass of those raised in North America, along with the bonus opportunity of possibly getting maimed or killed. They go because they know they can make a difference and the guys coming back are telling them they have seen they're making a difference.

I would still have more confidence in those who want us out of there if they would volunteer to go over to Afghanistan before we leave and individually explain to all the women in positions of authority, elected individuals from small city councils on up, etc why leaving them to be slaughtered by the Taliban was a more moral road to take. Given Taliban Jack's professed support for equality and rights for women, perhaps he could just focus on explaining to Afghan women why he supports them being thrown out of schools, ordered back into burkhas, and stripped of just about every right that women in Canada take for granted. Not to mention a regular procession of stoning, hangings, and female heads being blown off in assorted soccer stadiums...
the regular beatings in the streets for a bewildering number of offences is simply pour encouragez les autres...

It's easy to talk about deserting people to the mercy of murderous thugs, whether you argue that on the basis of "culture", or use instances of failure during the mission, or the fact we aren't acting similarly in Chad, Dafur (like we have the troops...) or whatever as the excuse. It's quite another after you've been someplace like Yugo or Rwanda and had to personally look people in the eyes while telling them that you're leaving them to their fate because your countrymen safe back home said that's what you had to do. There's another life altering experience for you that most of the "withdraw!" folks are going to be incredibly fortunate enough to never have to experience. Lucky them.

Sadly Mark, in the end I believe we are going to fail in Afghanistan. Not because we couldn't defeat the Taliban in any manner of war they chose to fight - because we can. Not because we couldn't win hearts and minds - because we can. And not because we couldn't rebuild the infrastructure of the country to the point of self sufficiency and create an Afghan Army capable of kicking the Taliban's ass - because we can do that too.

We are going to fail in Afghanistan for the same reasons that the US quickly failed in Vietnam right after the overwhelming and crushing defeat they handed Giap, the North Vietnamese, and the Viet Cong during Tet. The US slaughtered the NVA, practically wiped out the Viet Cong - and promptly lost the war. We are going to fail for the same reasons: the naysayers and the optics won't look right to Canadians who want a quick, clean, bloodless victory in Afghanistan. Of course, there is no such thing as a quick, clean, bloodless victory any time you have to resort to force of arms to accomplish something, and many Canadians these days simply refuse to accept that. They want the mythical Canadian in a blue beret, who blows his whistle and everyone stops fighting and goes home. The world doesn't work that way.

[yys]

continued

We are going to fail for the same reasons we have the kind of gun control we have and many of the other shortcomings in Canadian society: Canadians are scared of their own shadow and anything that might be "icky". If it might require doing or experiencing unpleasant things, then better to play the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" game.

So eventually, it will become a political liability to remain in Afghanistan. We'll leave and instead just give money to Doctors Without Borders, Amnesty International, etc. They'll take the money and, ultimately, accomplish SFA. The UN will continue waggling their fingers no matter what the Taliban do (and what else could the UN do with Canada and others bugging out?).

The Taliban won't quit killing women, those who won't pray, etc no matter what Amnesty International does. The torture and beatings won't stop.
Doctors Without Borders isn't going to fight for women's rights to medical help when the Taliban tell them men don't deal with women who aren't their wives. And, good folks though they are, they ain't gonna stick around once a few of their folks get capped - they just don't stick around in situations like that.

At the same time, our leaving will tell the Taliban that we have neither the heart nor spine to stand up to them, and they'll take that as a sign they can spread the madrassas and their peculiar views on Islam further and further. Anyone who thinks our sacrificing Afghanistan to the Taliban is going to solve either the Muslim or Christian world's problems with murderous Muslim extremists is dreaming in technicolor. Sooner or later we will be looking at the Taliban over gunsights again... and the next time may well be much closer to home, in an environment where they're much more difficult to deal with.

So we we bail and run home with our tails between our legs - not beaten by the Taliban but by our moral and political cowardice - and therefore add another chapter of history about how it is supposedly impossible to win in Afghanistan, when we should be adding a chapter that discusses how political expediency and moral cowardice make failure inevitable. People will write "told ya so" books for years about the "invincible Taliban" and how fighting in Afghanistan is foolhardy. Others will add those books to their libraries as proof of the invincible Taliban. Meanwhile, all the stuff that doesn't make the news like a ramp ceremony does - like a well dug by Canadians that provides clean drinking water and thus prevents dozens of kids dying year in and year out from contaminated wells - won't happen any further. And so, THAT death toll (which far outstrips the accidental deaths caused by Canadians), simply goes on, and on, and on, year in, year out...

But cheer up, it won't make the news, no Canadians were killed while these kids died. Voila! Success! Everybody's happy!"

[/QUOTE]

[yys]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Of course they are supportive of their friends. They've been trained to obey orders and respect the decisions of their commanders. I'm sure that they aren't being told that they are keeping the peace in Iraq so Haliburton can make a few billion dollars, or so Exxon can get some cheaper oil.

It's also difficult for them to get an honest view of the war. The US military for instance bans their soldiers from going to websites with actual opinions.

lol we are not even in Iraq but I can see how you might confuse the two.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by yys

lol we are not even in Iraq but I can see how you might confuse the two.

to Chretien for that ...

[wizhard]

Originally Posted by BT

draft dodgers

They dodged the draft yet still ended up in the dust of Afganistan .......

Is that standard for Canadian citizens ??????

[geeknik]

It's war. It happens and they knew the risks when they enlisted.

[techtony]

sorry to hear, we are next to an army post, so I have a few friends who have given their life for country.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by geeknik

It's war. It happens and they knew the risks when they enlisted.

That is very true .... for Americans enlisting ...

Canadian Army has in recent years only been used for peace-keeping missions.
The Afghan mission started as peace-keeping, but turned to combat when the US left the theatre.

[AtlantisCash]

Originally Posted by BT

fucking afghans are a bunch of sand nizzles

do You think they will wellcome You with roses because You ocupide there country?

this is a war and the fact is Your fat ass cowardly soldiers also will die, if You don't know than i m sorry for You little Canadian/American kiddy boy go and play with toys

[J. Falcon]

Originally Posted by aico

Canada has soldiers? Why?

To fight for FREEDOM just like those good ol Americans!

[J. Falcon]

Originally Posted by BT

fucking afghans are a bunch of sand nizzles

And I guess it's perfectly fine to drop bombs on their cities and kill their innocent, as long as you're LIBERATING them right? It must be a sin to fight back.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Spunky

Get our troops out of there..this is too many

YES, get them out NOW !!!!!! This totally pisses me off Total and utter waste of innocent lives, just so Harper can ride the coat tails of idiot GW

[Jman]

Originally Posted by JFK

YES, get them out NOW !!!!!! This totally pisses me off Total and utter waste of innocent lives, just so Harper can ride the coat tails of idiot GW

I bet you all the old people who voted for him are now regretting their move. Must be hard to see your children and grand children die like that.

[Vick!]

Originally Posted by JMan

Is that how we keep the peace, with our soldiers getting killed

Who said you to send your fucking soldiers there?

[Vick!]

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

And I guess it's perfectly fine to drop bombs on their cities and kill their innocent, as long as you're LIBERATING them right? It must be a sin to fight back.

These lamer will learn only when someone with more power will try to LIBERATE them, very same way.

jeez, when will the world learn.

[Vick!]

Originally Posted by yys

and here is a Canadian soldiers personal observations on the political realities of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan

Go to some library and read history of Afghanistan during 1979-1989

Want some lines from wikipedia?

The Soviet Union supported the government while the rebels found support from a variety of sources including the United States, Pakistan and other Muslim nations in the context of the Cold War.

All the funds, bombs, guns and bullets were provided by USA and Muslims from different countries were brain-washed to save their "brother" Muslim country Afghanistan.


When Russian invades Afghanistan and Afghans and other Muslim guys fight back, they are heroes and was backed by all the funds and war needs.

But when USA invades Afghanistan and Afghans and other Muslim guys fight back, they are terrorists.

what a fucking shameful hypocrisy.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by JMan

Is that how we keep the peace, with our soldiers getting killed

I don't understand this comment. Unlike the vast majority of our missions, we are not there to "keep the peace". We're there to assist with rebuilding and protecting the country that we helped "liberate".

This isn't going to be a popular opinion, but now that many years have passed since 9/11, I view the invasion of Afghanistan a lot differently then I did back then. Back then I was quite happy that we supported the US in going in after Bin Ladin and throwing out the Taliban. But in hindsite, it was the heat of the moment and although the Taliban weren't exactly choir boys, their repression etc. isn't much different than a hell of a lot of our "friends" in that area of the world.... We supported the US completely in invading a nation and overthrowing it's government. So as far as I'm concerned, we broke it, we own it and we need to stay and help fix it... as long as Iraq is the primary focus for most everyone else, I think we all have a chance of rebuilding Afghanistan and should stay there and see it thru. Yes the costs are high, but I'm proud of what our military is doing and I'm especially proud of all the "behind the scenes" stuff Canada is doing. We are more key to the rebuilding of that country than most people know about.

I am SO fucking glad we didn't support the US in Iraq.. If Harper or ANY Canadian official ever want to try and support the US in Iraq, I swear I would be yelling very loud for them to be thrown out. But we were a part of what's happened in Afghanistan and need to take responsibility for it.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by Vick!

Who said you to send your fucking soldiers there?

English or frenche please ?

[J. Falcon]

Does anybody still believe the U.S: invaded Irak and Afganistan to "liberate" them?

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

Does anybody still believe the U.S: invaded Irak and Afganistan to "liberate" them?

sure ....

[J. Falcon]

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by yys

I doubt you would find one person who actually has their life on the line over there who would agree with you.

Obviously you need to sign up tomorrow and get some experience before offering to speak for everyone.

[yys]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

Obviously you need to sign up tomorrow and get some experience before offering to speak for everyone.

Like I mentioned to another poster on here.

Head on over to http://army.ca/forums/ and read a bit. Maybe start a thread with a title like "Pull our troops out now" because it is exactly these people you are prepossessing to speak for. It will give you a good idea whether people who are actually serving agree with you or not. I'm sure you will find they are much more knowledgeable about the topic then anyone you will find posting in this thread.

BTW, I have a relative presently serving, a friend going over and oh yeah one of the dead yesterday was a friend of that friend; due to leave for home in 2 days. So I'd say I already have some experience as to how the troops feel. How about you? Know anyone serving over there?

Does anyone else in this thread know anyone who is serving?

[AtlantisCash]

You creating blood, tears and various bad human crimes where else you go; Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and so on only GOD knows where else You will go and do the same thing.

fuck outa middle east we don't want you here, we don't want liberation, stop lieing people, You greedy bastards came here only for sucking middle east's resources like a vampire...

You killing randomly innocent people, some of You bad ass psiko soldiers raping women and Some of you guys only wrighting your shitty openions behind of the keyboard wile You eating Your fast food and You are heros when it comes to Muslims, because only Muslims are bad, Muslims are terrorists, but You are not for killing their innocent people, raping their ladys, being reason some of them becomes sex slaves sadly right?

take Your ass from middle east, take Your ass from Asia and where ever You desire to liberate, stop spoiling people's culture/tradition/moral other wise when the day come, You could be liberating someone by who more powerful than you

[yys]

Originally Posted by AtlantisCash

You creating blood, tears and various bad human crimes where else you go; Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and so on only GOD knows where else You will go and do the same thing.

fuck outa middle east we don't want you here, we don't want liberation, stop lieing people, You greedy bastards came here only for sucking middle east's resources like a vampire...

You killing randomly innocent people, some of You bad ass psiko soldiers raping women and Some of you guys only wrighting your shitty openions behind of the keyboard wile You eating Your fast food and You are heros when it comes to Muslims, because only Muslims are bad, Muslims are terrorists, but You are not for killing their innocent people, raping their ladys, being reason some of them becomes sex slaves sadly right?

take Your ass from middle east, take Your ass from Asia and where ever You desire to liberate, stop spoiling people's culture/tradition/moral other wise when the day come, You could be liberating someone by who more powerful than you

hahahha
Yes we are in Afghanistan to rape and pillage you're muslim brothers and sisters.

Next we're going to come for you in Turkey. Tell your Mom we look forward to meeting her. What color burqa does she like?

[Vick!]

Originally Posted by yys

hahahha
Yes we are in Afghanistan to rape and pillage you're muslim brothers and sisters.

Next we're going to come for you in Turkey. Tell your Mom we look forward to meeting her. What color burqa does she like?

Care about YOUR mom first, who is already 'meeting' some blacks while you post on GFY.
After you are done with her, then think of other peoples' moms. Bastards.

[Validus]

I understand that there is a need for peacekeeping, I suppose our troops but not the mission.

We went there to do peace keeping, now we are doing combat missions. What?

Lets just send them food, teach them, give them technology… or something. Another way to help them.

I think we need to get Canadian troops out of Afghanistan. We aren’t a hostile country, it just doesn’t fit our image.

[VestatheVixen]

This is so sad and I hope once the dems win the presidency because they will I hope they bring our boys and girls back home.

[Bryan G]

Originally Posted by AtlantisCash

do You think they will wellcome You with roses because You ocupide there country?

this is a war and the fact is Your fat ass cowardly soldiers also will die, if You don't know than i m sorry for You little Canadian/American kiddy boy go and play with toys

Its THEIR not there, learn to speak english tard.

[Validus]

Originally Posted by Platinum Bryan

Its THEIR not there, learn to speak english tard.

LOL... too funny