Why is Fisting Illegal?

[teenytricia]

Did congress have a session on this one? I would like to read the transcripts on that..

[dropped9]

i dunno, but fistingjesus.com is for sale...

[The Ghost]

Are you asking why it's considered illegal in the U.S.? My history is a bit rusty but it goes back to the community standards law. The old school guys used to say if you can't defend it in a court room with a jury with 10 women on it, (librarians/school teachers/mormon housewives) you're best not producing it in the first place (in the U.S.)

[teenytricia]

Ghost, so then it is illegal only where it is not accepted? i thought it was illegal like sex with a minor is illegal.

[Scott McD]

All chicks like a good fisting every now and again...

[Angie77]

I never knew it was illegal?

[zeruel]

maybe because it really hurts bad... i don't wanna experience that...

[sweetpurple04]

I heard it was and I think it is.. I remember sweet having lots of problems with that way back.. you old timers know what I am talking about.. today I am not sure what is up with fisting.

[gornyhuy]

Because this country is full of fucking retards.

[gornyhuy]

Ironically, fucking retards on camera is perfectly legal. ;)

[Gerco]

Show me an actual law saying its illegal. ANY law. would be a hard fight for any court as fisting is a fairly normal sex act in the gay/lesbian community. A LOT of hetro people enjoy it also. Stupid fucking thing if you ask me. Who is to tell you that you can't have a fist in you, you can take a toy the size of a buick, but a fist is bad... whatever. it's your fucking hole, if you want to have it filled with a fist and you enjoy that, then fuck anyone who doesn't like it, it's your body.

[royaljelly2]

yeah that's the thing, you cannot tell people what the can or cannot do to themselves so long as its consentual. this is about personal preference. who's to say that it's not okay to do? stupid....yet deficating on someone is legal. weird.

[Twisted Dave]

Originally Posted by Gerco

Show me an actual law saying its illegal. ANY law. would be a hard fight for any court as fisting is a fairly normal sex act in the gay/lesbian community. A LOT of hetro people enjoy it also. Stupid fucking thing if you ask me. Who is to tell you that you can't have a fist in you, you can take a toy the size of a buick, but a fist is bad... whatever. it's your fucking hole, if you want to have it filled with a fist and you enjoy that, then fuck anyone who doesn't like it, it's your body.

Agreed.

Not that I'm into fisting ... but no matter what ... your body is your body.

[picaso]

it is illegal ?

[After Shock Media]

Techically in US case history fisting has come up before with a win for free speach. Look up US vs Robert Mapplethorpe. One of his photos from the trial was a man fisting another man. Each piece had to be taken as an individual item of obscenity and not as a whole (like it should).

[After Shock Media]

By the way I am not endorsing it nor saying it is or is not illegal as anyone in this business should know by now everything we do is legal until a jury of our peers, stacked against us, in an area of the country where it is most suitable for prosecution tells you that it is or is not.

There are no hard set rules, no handbooks, nadda. You do not know if you have broken the law until well it is time for an appeal. Yet that doesn't matter to the Feds anyways since they know you can beat the rap but not the ride, AKA they have all the money and resources of the US Government and you only have a finite amount of it. So they will just bankrupt you and try you in public.

[nico-t]

because the US is the freeest country in the world

[Michaelious]

Probably cos it can damage the viagina or ass

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by Michaelious

Probably cos it can damage the viagina or ass

Technically it sort of does fall under torture. Though if someone is willing then it really isnt, yet well land of the free to be put on trial and all.

[tony286]

Fisting is real enough they arrested seymour butts and he pleaded out. Fisting its considered obscene,if your looking for a law in the books you wont find it.They want to keep that shit really really vague so they can use it against us also giving a list of what you can do and cant would be saying porn is alright to do never happen. If you live in the US, its not a matter of whether its fair or not. Its do you have the money to fight them in court if the answer is no its best to stay away from it.

[ExtremeBank_Adam]

Seymore Butts did accept a lesser plea, BUT he was able to continue manufacturing the fisting version of the video (Tampa Tushy Fest 2) as long as he produced a non-fisting version.

There are no laws saying that fisting is illegal... please show me a law where fisting is considered obscene.

[D]

I doubt it's illegal on the federal level.

Even with the current administration/regime in power, this sounds like someothing that would be reserved for state and local laws, and not federal oversight.

[Extreme John]

I believe that in Tampa where Seymour filmed that particular scene it is considered Illegal, again i could be VERY wrong, because as said above and in most cases you wont find most of it in books because it makes it easier to fuck you in the end.

[NKYKev]

There is no law explicitly making it illegal, but it is definitely one of the acts that most prosecutors will consider as obscene - regardless of the fact that an even larger object could be inserted into someone and not be prosecuted. But since Visa and Mastercard have refused to process any content depicting it in the US since the DOJ listed it as an act it considered obscene, it might as well be illegal.

[Gerco]

http://stason.org/TULARC/sex-relatio...ed-States.html

interesting read.

[NKYKev]

Originally Posted by D

I doubt it's illegal on the federal level.

Even with the current administration/regime in power, this sounds like someothing that would be reserved for state and local laws, and not federal oversight.

Tell that to this guy. Bringing obscenity prosecutions is within federal jurisdiction
if they choose to do so.

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Technically it sort of does fall under torture. Though if someone is willing then it really isnt, yet well land of the free to be put on trial and all.

If it's done properly, it shouldn't be ANYTHING like torture. Women I know that've tried it consider it one of the most PLEASUREABLE acts.

[Drake]

Because many sex laws were created by sexually repressed religious deviants who wanted to outlaw the things they enjoyed doing most, for show.

[Connor]

Hey guys... this thread has a LOT of information that is misleading, and it's a good example of why it's a bad idea to get legal info from a message board... ANY industry message board. Anyone who is concerned about this topic should speak with an attorney... and ask about obscenity. Some posters here seem to have a grasp on this topic, others seem to be a bit confused. But... I'd hate to think people either a) censor themselves when they don't have to, or b) don't play it safe enough because they think there's no risk in what they're doing when there is...

Sorry to get all serious on GFY, but when it comes to legal topics like this... I do take that shit seriously.

[CurrentlySober]

I like ANAL fisting...

I like poo

[MediaGuy]

The illegality of fisting is a myth that started after the Meese commission report on pornography came out and the industry was worried about rampant prosecutions.

Adult industry lawyer Paul Cambria tried to "help" by coming up with his "Cambria List" of things NOT to shoot so that the US administration would refrain from prosecutions.

On this list was fisting, among other things such as interracial sex.

In fact it was Cambria who came up with the "rule of thumb", ie. not inserting the thumb with the four fingers to avoid having it called fisting.

None of the items on Cambria's list, many of which have since grown into siginificant niches within the industry, have been brought to court or successfully prosecuted - over even the supreme court ruled "community standards" interpretation, which is becoming more impossible to maintain with every passing case.

Actually if you aren't sure what niches are out there and would like a good run-down, Cambria's list is probably still rock-solid, check it out:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...g/cambria.html

[polle54]

How the fuck would you define fisting as illigal???

It is illigal to put your whole fist in a womans vagina and sell the pictures for commercial use???

LOL LOL LOL

No way it's illigal

[Gerco]

You know, I've said it before and I'm saying it again. I'm sick of all this crap. Until there is something in print on the law books that specifically states what I'm doing is unlawful they can go fuck themselves. prosecute me to bankruptcy... bring it on. Sound like tough talk, not really. My living was made off it, without it I'm bankrupt anyways. Pulling all fisting would in effect shut me down, with no fanfare and little more than another empty page on the net. Prosecute me and at least I would go out fighting for what I believe is right and I would get a little public attention to it at the same time. I understand that this is a battle I may have to someday face, but ya know what? I'll face it. I really have nothing that they could take away from me... my freedom you say, maybe, but right now I live day to day worrying about how every bills going to be paid, worrying that those I love have enough to eat... Who's going to remember me in 2 years... 5 years, 50? If I become a footnote in some law book at least I leave a "little" history behind.

And this talking about crying to your attorney all the time... what the fuck do you THINK they are going to tell you? Attorneys are there to make money. They are interpreting what is law. They are trying to read between the lines,and unless something is in black and white, there is nothing that they can tell you for 100% certain.

Who the fuck am I? Nobody, your fucking nobody also, be it fisting, pissing, blowjobs, missionary sex whatever, the sooner you get it though your heads that the entire Porn industry is under constant attack and no matter what part of it you may be involved in, in the end we are all in this equal.

Ok, that's enough rant for now... go back to your regularly scheduled "would you hit this" threads.

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by MediaGuy

The illegality of fisting is a myth that started after the Meese commission report on pornography came out and the industry was worried about rampant prosecutions.

Adult industry lawyer Paul Cambria tried to "help" by coming up with his "Cambria List" of things NOT to shoot so that the US administration would refrain from prosecutions.

On this list was fisting, among other things such as interracial sex.

In fact it was Cambria who came up with the "rule of thumb", ie. not inserting the thumb with the four fingers to avoid having it called fisting.

None of the items on Cambria's list, many of which have since grown into siginificant niches within the industry, have been brought to court or successfully prosecuted - over even the supreme court ruled "community standards" interpretation, which is becoming more impossible to maintain with every passing case.

Actually if you aren't sure what niches are out there and would like a good run-down, Cambria's list is probably still rock-solid, check it out:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...g/cambria.html

It's kinda scary that these things are included in this list imo...

-No facials (bodyshots are OK if shot is not nasty)

-No squirting

-No girls sharing same dildo (in mouth or pussy)

-Toys are OK if shot is not nasty

-No hands from 2 different people fingering same girl

-No male/male penetration

-No transsexuals

-No bi-sex

-No black men-white women themes

And can someone define "Nasty" for me?? WTF?

[SykkBoy]

um are you talking about the act or filming/photography/publishing of the act?

[MediaGuy]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

um are you talking about the act or filming/photography/publishing of the act?

In the context of this board/business, the filming/photography/publishing is what we're talking about...

[JP-pornshooter]

Originally Posted by Connor

Hey guys... this thread has a LOT of information that is misleading, and it's a good example of why it's a bad idea to get legal info from a message board... ANY industry message board. Anyone who is concerned about this topic should speak with an attorney... and ask about obscenity. Some posters here seem to have a grasp on this topic, others seem to be a bit confused. But... I'd hate to think people either a) censor themselves when they don't have to, or b) don't play it safe enough because they think there's no risk in what they're doing when there is...

Sorry to get all serious on GFY, but when it comes to legal topics like this... I do take that shit seriously.

i strongly disagree.. many on GFY have or know others who have gone thru legal problems in one way or another, and often there are lawyers on the board also who will chime in with their perspective.

obscenity is a cloudy/grey area, fisting could be construed as obscene and would then be considered illegal, but if you are willing to go to trial and can prove that fisting is not obscene, then it would be legal..

the forum is a great place to discuss these issues. But everyone should ofcourse also consult their own legal counsil.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Actually, I've never put an entire fist inside someone's junk. Just not one of those things I have been curious enough to try.

Besides, I think it would be awkward if you couldn't extract your fist...I mean, who do you call - the Fire Department?

ADG

[emichele20]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Actually, I've never put an entire fist inside someone's junk. Just not one of those things I have been curious enough to try.

Besides, I think it would be awkward if you couldn't extract your fist...I mean, who do you call - the Fire Department?

ADG

[Tom_PM]

lol funny pic. I was going to jump in and refer you to the Cambria List as well.

And agree that the grey-area stuff is frustrating when you're trying to make a business in adult. Make it black and white, and everyone knows where they stand. Much easier.

[Violetta]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

All chicks like a good fisting every now and again...

or not... lol

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Gerco

You know, I've said it before and I'm saying it again. I'm sick of all this crap. Until there is something in print on the law books that specifically states what I'm doing is unlawful they can go fuck themselves. prosecute me to bankruptcy... bring it on. Sound like tough talk, not really. My living was made off it, without it I'm bankrupt anyways. Pulling all fisting would in effect shut me down, with no fanfare and little more than another empty page on the net. Prosecute me and at least I would go out fighting for what I believe is right and I would get a little public attention to it at the same time. I understand that this is a battle I may have to someday face, but ya know what? I'll face it. I really have nothing that they could take away from me... my freedom you say, maybe, but right now I live day to day worrying about how every bills going to be paid, worrying that those I love have enough to eat... Who's going to remember me in 2 years... 5 years, 50? If I become a footnote in some law book at least I leave a "little" history behind.

And this talking about crying to your attorney all the time... what the fuck do you THINK they are going to tell you? Attorneys are there to make money. They are interpreting what is law. They are trying to read between the lines,and unless something is in black and white, there is nothing that they can tell you for 100% certain.

Who the fuck am I? Nobody, your fucking nobody also, be it fisting, pissing, blowjobs, missionary sex whatever, the sooner you get it though your heads that the entire Porn industry is under constant attack and no matter what part of it you may be involved in, in the end we are all in this equal.

Ok, that's enough rant for now... go back to your regularly scheduled "would you hit this" threads.

Heh... you think the consequences of getting targeted ends with bankruptcy? I hope others don't think that's true too. The consequences for being convicted of distributing obscenity are potentially MUCH more severe than just financial ruin, although that too is definitely a possibility.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by JP-pornshooter

i strongly disagree.. many on GFY have or know others who have gone thru legal problems in one way or another, and often there are lawyers on the board also who will chime in with their perspective.

obscenity is a cloudy/grey area, fisting could be construed as obscene and would then be considered illegal, but if you are willing to go to trial and can prove that fisting is not obscene, then it would be legal..

the forum is a great place to discuss these issues. But everyone should ofcourse also consult their own legal counsil.

Well... knock yourself out then, don't know what to say. But the problem I see is that already there is so much misinformation in this thread... if someone makes the mistake of taking some of this for fact, the consequences could be anything from unfortunate to extremely severe.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

lol funny pic. I was going to jump in and refer you to the Cambria List as well.

And agree that the grey-area stuff is frustrating when you're trying to make a business in adult. Make it black and white, and everyone knows where they stand. Much easier.

They want it grey easier to fuck you with it.Wouldn't be great if there was a list it would be very cut and dry but that will never happen. The government was going to regulate the movie industry then they self regulated and that saved them from that. That will never happen in porn, I also think since people dont see people getting arrested every day they assume its safe but its not its more like a evil lottery.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Connor

Well... knock yourself out then, don't know what to say. But the problem I see is that already there is so much misinformation in this thread... if someone makes the mistake of taking some of this for fact, the consequences could be anything from unfortunate to extremely severe.

If you speak to any usa lawyer they are going to tell you, you are playing with fire.

[GAMEFINEST]

i guess its not ...

[Gerco]

Originally Posted by Connor

Heh... you think the consequences of getting targeted ends with bankruptcy? I hope others don't think that's true too. The consequences for being convicted of distributing obscenity are potentially MUCH more severe than just financial ruin, although that too is definitely a possibility.

Where did I say anything like that? I know exactly what COULD happen... so what. It's the chance I have to take for the only option I've been given. My choice. And, until it's definitively stated on the books that what I'm doing is wrong, then what I'm doing IS NOT WRONG.

How is it that fingering at all is even ok... what the fucks the difference between 1 finger... 4 5 8... it's all part of your hand. It's all doing the same thing. Just because party "A" has a bigger hole than party "B" and needs a little more in it, they should be put away... thats the logic here... or lack of. Willing consensual adults, enjoying their body in a way that pleases them should be left the fuck alone... go after some Actual criminals and quit trying to make a criminal out of someone thats not.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by teenytricia

Did congress have a session on this one? I would like to read the transcripts on that..

fisting pic

[DaddyHalbucks]

Because it is an abominable and detestable crime against nature.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by teenytricia

Ghost, so then it is illegal only where it is not accepted? i thought it was illegal like sex with a minor is illegal.

It does not need USC 22355 subsection 433(b) to declare "You shalt not fist. The penalty upon conviction for fisting is a maximum of 20 years imprisonment or $400,000 fine."

Welcome to the adult industry "Anything" can be illegal if a prosecutor elects to introduce charges of obscenity and a jury convict on that basis.

If you perhaps "don't feel good" at the prospect of showing twelve upstanding members of your local community a series of fisting videos and asking them whether they think they are obscene or not - maybe there is a problem