Lets count the ways Glock's are the worst handguns

[DirtyDanza]

1. They will explode in your hand
2. Cheap trashy guns
3. They are a (6 o clock shot)


let me explain a 6 o clock to the people that don't know about shooting..

when firearms makers make the weapons each weapon is set up to shoot either

POA or 6 o clock


poa (point of aim) is what you want if you do not have any gun experience at all because where you point that front sight your round will soon follow

now Glock is a 6 o clock

lets see if I can explain it ok picture a target with the ovals... now say you want to hit your 10 ring... ok in order to hit that 10 ring you need to aim your front sight down at the 6 o clock to hit the center? make sense?

why do gun makers do this?

well I dunno personally I carry both but I have been shooting long long time....


but let me explain the signifagance of this....

POA guns are better guns and cost more most of the time.. you can find cheap ones but get a good one... HK I reccomend for anybody because hands down HK is the best handguns you can carry if your not going to rock a 1911... if 1911 is your thing then you need to snag a kimber or a SA

now picture yourself in a situation where the only deadly force shot you can take is a small area say 1 inch by 1 inch... now to hit that with a 6 o clock I don't care how good you are it's all luck.... now with POA you can hit it all day long....

ever wonder why you never see glock in pistol comp? thats why... it's a really shitty gun and is made super cheap....

I would carry a squirt gun before I carried a glock to save my life... at least I can fill the squirt gun with something to slow the suspect down... glock your lucky to get that round off when you need it...


in this order is the guns to buy


1. HK USP : hands down the best handgun in the world... I like the 40 cal myself but 45 is alright as well... never a 9mm it WILL NOT stop a human being that is intent on killing you

2. Springfield XD : I carry the sub-compact again in a .40 round why? best one shot stop round out....

3. Kimber : the ultra carry is a very nice "carry" gun for anybody.. and that I got in a 45 I do not like the 45 round because it's a very slow round all under 1000fps so you can acutually see the round comming out the gun.. it's more of a knock down rather than a one shot stop gun


4. Sig 229r : I do not have one but for girls this is a great gun.. it's in between a service model and a sub compact with a 3.63 barrel...


I hope this helps on peopple wanting to buy guns....


I will wait a bit then I will post some stats on why a 9mm is a sissy round and you will not stop a human being with it

[MikeVega]

Last time i was in Detroit with Pete we I shot the HK 45 and a Sig. before that the only handguns I've shot were Glocks ( 9 & 40 ) . I was amazed at how much better both guns felt then the Glocks. I didn't know about 6/poa but i knew it was easier to hit the target.

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by MikeVega

Last time i was in Detroit with Pete we I shot the HK 45 and a Sig. before that the only handguns I've shot were Glocks ( 9 & 40 ) . I was amazed at how much better both guns felt then the Glocks. I didn't know about 6/poa but i knew it was easier to hit the target.

yeah.... I had an old schooler explain to me long long time ago..

you either buy a piece of shit like glock or you buy a work of art like HK...


reason LE uses glock is Glock gives LE a super discount on glocks... the glock you pay 500 for cops pay 150 for... so they carry cheap guns because most cops are not gun guys there people looking for a job

[Far-L]

I used to shoot a Glock and loved it. Never jammed. Certainly never blew up. I had tighter groupings with it than any berreta or other similar 9mm or .40. I shot the HKs and liked them but for the weight and the money i still preferred the glock.

But what do I know - I haven't been to the range in years.

[V_RocKs]

I fully expected to see HK in your sig...

Thanks for the tips... I am looking into buying a gun and this will definitely steer me away from a Glock.

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

I fully expected to see HK in your sig...

Thanks for the tips... I am looking into buying a gun and this will definitely steer me away from a Glock.

acutually right now as we speak I got my XD sub compact in an IWB holster at 4 o clock


next I will give a lesson on the proper draw of a weapon from a CCW holster....



but my HK is right next to me.... bout to go to breakfast so I got my subcompact on me... I am known to conceal my full size though all the time.....

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I used to shoot a Glock and loved it. Never jammed. Certainly never blew up. I had tighter groupings with it than any berreta or other similar 9mm or .40. I shot the HKs and liked them but for the weight and the money i still preferred the glock.

But what do I know - I haven't been to the range in years.

most Jams are caused by shooting "limp wristed" ive jammed my hk shooting left handed 1 handed before but that was my fault for shooting limp wristed

thats why murphys law says if you carry a gun you always carry an extra mag because most jams can be cured by a quick drop of primary mag breech your mag clear your jam and drop new mag in your back in buisness within a second and a half....

[bushwacker]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

acutually right now as we speak I got my XD sub compact in an IWB holster at 4 o clock


next I will give a lesson on the proper draw of a weapon from a CCW holster....



but my HK is right next to me.... bout to go to breakfast so I got my subcompact on me... I am known to conceal my full size though all the time.....

Do you always carry a weapon?

[Validus]

Um. I am quite happy with my Glock, thank you very much!

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by bushwacker

Do you always carry a weapon?

of course.....

[crockett]

If you don't have a gun and need the one that's pointed at you, this is how you get it.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/825472... u_m_pistola/

[DirtyDanza]

ther is 1 plus about a glock that I forgot to mention....



ok say you carry a glock 22 for yor primary and a 27 for your backup


now say someone shoots that primary out your hand or you have a malfunction with it...

well the mags are compatible down not up... so a fullsize mag from a g22 will fit the 23 and 27 but will stick out the bottom.... so in essence you can have your little g27 with a full size mag in

make sence? but a g27 mag will not fit the 22


thats the only and I mean ONLY plus about a glock....


and like the post above


really and truley it's personal prefrence.. you need to depend on that weapon to save your life one day you must feel good about it... those who are brought up on glock feel good about it because they don't know anything else... and by all means if you feel good about it then carry it..

but I like odds im from vegas I like to play the odds... and odds say that when you need your weapon that a glock will malfunction more so than the makes I said above... I don't want that chance.....

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by crockett

If you don't have a gun and need the one that's pointed at you, this is how you get it.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/825472... u_m_pistola/

nice vid, we were taught tottally different...


we were taught to lean into the gun.. and snap it out.... if I can get my buddy to roll over later ill make a little vid of how to properly draw from 4 o clock then how to disarm a gun when it's on your forehead at execution style

[Validus]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

nice vid, we were taught tottally different...


we were taught to lean into the gun.. and snap it out.... if I can get my buddy to roll over later ill make a little vid of how to properly draw from 4 o clock then how to disarm a gun when it's on your forehead at execution style

No way would I ever grab a gun like that!

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by Validus

No way would I ever grab a gun like that!

bottom line is the trigger has to be pulled for any gun to go off....


I have never in my life seen a gun just go off... and if anyone tells you it has thats bullshit...


I will load up any gun and throw it on the ground as hard as I can then pick it back up and fire it...


remember this the best gun saftey is keep your fucking finger off the trigger bottom line..... I have no safteys on any gun of mine... my saftey is my trigger... if you remember this.. you will never have an accident

[Validus]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

bottom line is the trigger has to be pulled for any gun to go off....


I have never in my life seen a gun just go off... and if anyone tells you it has thats bullshit...


I will load up any gun and throw it on the ground as hard as I can then pick it back up and fire it...


remember this the best gun saftey is keep your fucking finger off the trigger bottom line..... I have no safteys on any gun of mine... my saftey is my trigger... if you remember this.. you will never have an accident

Well point is if he pulls the trigger while your hand is on the sled. enjoy!

I learned to control the wrist... just like disarming somebody with a knife.

Thats how the rcmp does it anyhow...

[fris]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=17l60xMrbjg

[WarChild]

My god are you ever a tool. Every post you make just makes you looking fucking dumb.

[Validus]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LKe50...elated&search=

That is very similar to how I learned it.

[pornguy]

Lethal Tupperware.

[pr0]

fuck handguns

AK-47



For when you absolutely, positively, gotta kill EVERY mother fucker in the room.......Accept no substitute

[DaddyHalbucks]

If you have small hands, Glock grips are kinda big.

[mikesouth]

Glock is to handguns as McDonalds is to fine food

Id sooner shoot a sling shot

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by pr0

fuck handguns

AK-47



For when you absolutely, positively, gotta kill EVERY mother fucker in the room.......Accept no substitute

now were talking....


I remember hearing this long time ago...


"if you sent me to another planet and said pick one gun to take with you I'd pick the AK"

... AK is to long guns as Mac is to computers it just works all the time..


you know how the afghanies clean their ak's

they take a sock tie a knot at the end of it.. dip it in used motor oil and run it through and they consider that clean...

ive NEVER had an ak jam on me NEVER... I have seen people smash the bend em... pick em up from being buried in the sand, sitting in the river, you name it and the ak always works... it's so simple of a gun but it has a shitload of power behind it...
the 7.62x39 is a great round...

I just picked up an old Mosin Nagant m44 from Big5 yesterday that is a 7.62x54 old heavy fucker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin-Nagant

let me tell you... I will shoot one of my Barrett's all day long not getting sore... I didn't even finish my 5 rounds without a charlie horse in my right shoulder....

fucker is old and solid and very fun to shoot... I think there dead on for about 600yds that round that is.... fun round to shoot if you get a chance go get one from big5 they are bangin em out for under 100 bucks.....


it's just under the 300 mag in size the 300 if im not mistaken is like a 7.62x 62 or 67 I can't remember off the top of my head but a great gun to drop a full size game such as bear or 8pt or above deer...

[jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

never a 9mm it WILL NOT stop a human being that is intent on killing you

I will wait a bit then I will post some stats on why a 9mm is a sissy round and you will not stop a human being with it

By you saying a 9mm will not stop a human being I seriously have doubts you even own a gun.

I have an idea. How about you let me shoot you with a 9mm or no how about a .22, just a single shot, after I have fired you are allowed to return fire with any caliber you choose.

I don't care who you are, a 9mm will kill you just the same as a .45 or .44 mag or whatever else you want to shoot. A fatal shot is a fatal shot. 9mm in self defense range (3-10 feet) will go right through bone and tissue, more so then some other rounds even.

"Knock down power" is BS, unless your shooting a cannon ball at the guy they will not be blown back through the air like the movies. All that matters is shot placement, I'll take a single well placed 9mm shot to a dozen spray and pray .45 rounds.
Not to mention the ability to make accurate follow up shots is important, most people using firearms for self defense are not properly trained to use the firearm. At the range I see all the time people shooting rapid and only the first shot even hits the paper, .40 is probably the worst round for this as its generally the most snappy.

And I am sure you will say some story about how your friends brothers wifes sisters friends mom shot some guy 10 times with a 9mm and he still kept coming at her, and thats why 9mm sucks...
I have friends that have spent a lot of time in Iraq and have seen guys shoot back at them after having limbs blown off and being shot with humvee mounted .50 machine guns.

Again I will say shot placement > caliber every time.

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Glock is to handguns as McDonalds is to fine food

Id sooner shoot a sling shot

hahahahaha thats a good one.... me too Id rather have a squirt gun....

[jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

ive NEVER had an ak jam on me NEVER... I have seen people smash the bend em... pick em up from being buried in the sand, sitting in the river, you name it and the ak always works... it's so simple of a gun but it has a shitload of power behind it...
the 7.62x39 is a great round...

fucker is old and solid and very fun to shoot... I think there dead on for about 600yds that round that is.... fun round to shoot if you get a chance go get one from big5 they are bangin em out for under 100 bucks.....

Ak's will always shoot, just dont try and hit something smaller then a barn door.
The power of the round is great, but its accuracy is shit, I was trying to hit a 4x8 peice of plywood at 100 yards, took almost 30 rounds befor I hit it. Now this wasn't a new AK, but it would be typical of what you would find over in the sandbox.

7.62x54 is an ok round as is the 7.62x39, both are cheap and make a loud bang, but I wouldnt pick either to hunt with or to shoot competition with.


For long guns I like my 22-250, and my 338 lupa.
Although for hunting I would probably go 300 win mag or the never go wrong round of the 30-06.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

a 1911... if 1911 is your thing then you need to snag a kimber or a SA

that 's me, I'm a 1911 guy. have the SA. -bmb

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

Ak's will always shoot, just dont try and hit something smaller then a barn door.
The power of the round is great, but its accuracy is shit, I was trying to hit a 4x8 peice of plywood at 100 yards, took almost 30 rounds befor I hit it. Now this wasn't a new AK, but it would be typical of what you would find over in the sandbox.

7.62x54 is an ok round as is the 7.62x39, both are cheap and make a loud bang, but I wouldnt pick either to hunt with or to shoot competition with.


For long guns I like my 22-250, and my 338 lupa.
Although for hunting I would probably go 300 win mag or the never go wrong round of the 30-06.

yeah both very cheap rounds... I find I am better with the ak over my others... we shoot coleman propane tanks all day long first shot (lantern gas tanks)


I love the ak here are some stats

>> 7000 elevation, absolute drop (identical sight over bore)
_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 100 200 300 400 500 600 | YARDS
M855 0.324 3100 > -2.60 0.00 -1.64 -8.25 -20.73 -40.18 -67.97 | drop (inches)
XM193 0.243 3254 > -2.60 0.00 -1.45 -7.91 -20.62 -41.25 -72.00 | drop (inches)
115H 0.340 2650 > -2.60 -0.00 -3.21 -13.27 -31.44 -59.28 -98.71 | drop (inches)
7.62x39 Fed 0.289 2300 > -2.60 -0.00 -5.45 -20.81 -48.43 -91.27 -152.96 | drop (inches)

>> Wind deflection, 10mph 90 degree
M855 0.324 3100 > 0.00 0.68 2.80 6.55 12.12 19.76 29.75 | wind (inches)
XM193 0.243 3254 > 0.00 0.86 3.58 8.49 15.94 26.41 40.45 | wind (inches)
115H 0.340 2650 > 0.00 0.80 3.33 7.80 14.48 23.63 35.57 | wind (inches)
7.62x39 Fed 0.289 2300 > 0.00 1.17 4.91 11.61 21.69 35.54 53.44 | wind (inches)

>> Drop rate inches per yard
M855 0.324 3100 > 0.05 0.01 -0.04 -0.09 -0.16 -0.23 -0.32 | drop per yard (inches)
XM193 0.243 3254 > 0.04 0.01 -0.04 -0.09 -0.16 -0.25 -0.37 | drop per yard (inches)
115H 0.340 2650 > 0.05 -0.00 -0.06 -0.14 -0.23 -0.33 -0.46 | drop per yard (inches)
7.62x39 Fed 0.289 2300 > 0.06 -0.01 -0.10 -0.21 -0.35 -0.52 -0.72 | drop per yard (inches)

You can see how 7.62x39 is not that bad at all over alot of rounds that are out for long guns


I am with you


for hunting I like ether of the following

3030, 30-06, 300mag....


now for sniping human beings the .308 is the round which is back to the 7.62x54 again

my SA socom .308 is a bad mutherfucker... im drillin cantalope at 1000 meters 1100 yds all day long cold bore and all....


lets also not forget a nice smaller round for smaller game as well... there are alot of great small rounds that put the hurtin on fox's, rabbits, ect ect....


heres a funny thoght ..

all barretts have the ability to shoot down a helicopter with out working to hard... and there sold to civilians.... God Bless America... at least they give everyone a fair chance LOLOL

[Deej]

Im all about the pen guns!

when i get robbed i ask if they would like me to write them a check and shootem in the eye!!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Y2N7y...elated&search=

[jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

now for sniping human beings the .308 is the round which is back to the 7.62x54 again

my SA socom .308 is a bad mutherfucker... im drillin cantalope at 1000 meters 1100 yds all day long cold bore and all....


lets also not forget a nice smaller round for smaller game as well... there are alot of great small rounds that put the hurtin on fox's, rabbits, ect ect....


heres a funny thoght ..

all barretts have the ability to shoot down a helicopter with out working to hard... and there sold to civilians.... God Bless America... at least they give everyone a fair chance LOLOL

The .308 and 7.62x54 are not the same. The 308 is 7.62x51
The military is getting away from the .308 as the sniper round, 338 lupa and .50 are the new rounds of choice for the fact that they are much more reliably accurate over longer distances.

A cantelope at 1000 meters for a .308 is pretty good, as at that distance you are looking at 250+" of drop.
The 308 is really only effective to 800 yards, after that it drops way too much.

Actually I call BS, 1000 yards hitting something as small as a cantelope all day long with a 16" barrel and a .308. Just not going to happen even with hand loads.
Had you said 700 or even 800 yards I would have just said ok. But 1000+ yards your talking hand loads for sure, custom bases, and 20+" barrel.


That aside, the .223 is probably the best round for varmint and small game, as its cheap, accurate, and works great. I like my 22-250 for the velocity though, just hate how I go through a barrel every season.
The 338 lupa isnt nearly as fun as I would have though on small game, the 22-250 is much more entertaining. And 6 bucks a shot to kill gophers.... sucks.

[Validus]

a 9 mm will stop a guy... a .40 cal will stop him faster. Most police use 40 cal now... I got a Glock 22.

[jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Validus

a 9 mm will stop a guy... a .40 cal will stop him faster. Most police use 40 cal now... I got a Glock 22.

So your saying the slower velocity of the .40 will stop a guy faster then the quicker 9mm....
Explain.

[Digipimp]

clueless as usual

[smack]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

3. Kimber : the ultra carry is a very nice "carry" gun for anybody.. and that I got in a 45 I do not like the 45 round because it's a very slow round all under 1000fps so you can acutually see the round comming out the gun.. it's more of a knock down rather than a one shot stop gun

i have a kimber ultra carry II .45. amazing gun. one of the nicest i've ever shot. there are some .45 rounds though that go well over 1000 fp/s. glaser makes a real nice +P round with a polymer cap.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/powrball.htm

it gets good exit velocity. around 1225 fp/s, and the polymer cap helps mushroom the bullet more for even better energy transfer. that's what i carry.

the round certainly isn't as fast as a .40 or 9mm, but with a considerably higher speed than most .45 rounds, and improved energy transfer i think it's a great bullet.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

really and truley it's personal prefrence.. you need to depend on that weapon to save your life one day you must feel good about it... those who are brought up on glock feel good about it because they don't know anything else... and by all means if you feel good about it then carry it..

I agree that personal preference does make a huge difference. I wasn't brought up on Glock though, I tested just about every handgun available at the Beverly Hills range in LA before I went with the glock and that meant the best sigs, hk, berreta, desert eagle etc. (9mm, .40, .45, .50) available at the time.

I also used to have a chinese AK and a galil, uzi pistol, and some others - probably had the most fun cutting through things like engine blocks in the desert with my AK though.

[CIVMatt]

Anyone who just comes out and says Glocks are the worst handguns doesn't know shit about weapons, thats the dumbest thing I've ever read

[SifuE]

Buhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa You dont know shit!

[cykoe6]

I have to agree on the Glock. I had a Glock .40 cal and I hated the damn thing. I replaced it with a Beretta .40 and I love it. Never jams and hits what you are aiming at.

As far as AKs go they are best practical use firearm there is. I have only cleaned mine a few times over the yaers and it has never jammed once. If I could only have one gun that would be it. My second choice would be my Mossberg 12 gauge.

[Validus]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

So your saying the slower velocity of the .40 will stop a guy faster then the quicker 9mm....
Explain.

LOL... The hole is bigger... but I am not going to get into this!

Go Glock.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

nice vid, we were taught tottally different...


we were taught to lean into the gun.. and snap it out.... if I can get my buddy to roll over later ill make a little vid of how to properly draw from 4 o clock then how to disarm a gun when it's on your forehead at execution style

If you do it, throw it up on meta cafe as a director. Those kinda vids if good, get a lot of views.

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

The .308 and 7.62x54 are not the same. The 308 is 7.62x51
The military is getting away from the .308 as the sniper round, 338 lupa and .50 are the new rounds of choice for the fact that they are much more reliably accurate over longer distances.

A cantelope at 1000 meters for a .308 is pretty good, as at that distance you are looking at 250+" of drop.
The 308 is really only effective to 800 yards, after that it drops way too much.

Actually I call BS, 1000 yards hitting something as small as a cantelope all day long with a 16" barrel and a .308. Just not going to happen even with hand loads.
Had you said 700 or even 800 yards I would have just said ok. But 1000+ yards your talking hand loads for sure, custom bases, and 20+" barrel.


That aside, the .223 is probably the best round for varmint and small game, as its cheap, accurate, and works great. I like my 22-250 for the velocity though, just hate how I go through a barrel every season.
The 338 lupa isnt nearly as fun as I would have though on small game, the 22-250 is much more entertaining. And 6 bucks a shot to kill gophers.... sucks.

wow someone knows a bit about shooting distance...


yeah you have to watch for drop plus drift as well... it's not "that tough" of a shot for someone who's job was to shoot that distance but for the avg shooter it's a tough shot....

as for the 40 better than the 9mm let me pull my notes out be right back

[DBS.US]

My pick, H&K USP Tactical 40 with Gemtech Blackside Silencer

[DirtyDanza]

OK...



I there was an FBI shootout in the 80's in florida thats when the 40 came around... the rounds the FBI was using at the time were 9mm if I remember what they told us.. 2 agents were killed and 5 wounded


now


with any gunshot wound you have alot of factors that create the "stopping power"



Penetration
Expansion
mass retention
velocity
chamber pressure


then you got

strike velocity
strike energy
energy deposit
efficecency
crush cavity
stretch cavity

and a few more factors but we will focus on those for now....


the FBI found that around 12 inches was the min for penetration to be effictive


so basicly

what it boils down to is the .40 although slower ranging from 900-1200 fps had more one shot stop power because as you know a through and through is the easiest survived gunshot....

the biggest crush cavity from a 9mm is around 3.9 or so while the 40 produces a 6-6.9 crush cavity

what does that mean?


when the bullet hits there is trama to the surrounding tissue and inside the body that is not seen... bigger crush cavity more one shot stop....


now im not saying the 9 won't kill a human but you need to be carefull where you place that shot... head shot a fucking 22 will do the trick....

but center mass is what im talking here


the 9mm has an expansion to .55 the 40 to .72 on some +p loads which means begger fragment in the body to do the damage


the best one shot stop 9mm is about 84% from what I am reading now while 40cal is 97% on the 155 grain hydrashok I like a lighter bullet I do not shoot a 180 but I like a +p load myself


the 40 is a nice blend between the 9 mm and the 45

for a great one shot stop bullet

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by DBS.US

My pick, H&K USP Tactical 40 with Gemtech Blackside Silencer

great gun I hate the sights they always catch on my clothes when carry ccw.... throw some trijicon on there and yer set

[Digipimp]

if when discussing guns you have to consult shit posted on the internet, then you have no clue what you're talking about. let me check my notes equals googling gun sites. well then you sure know your way around some guns tough guy.

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by Digipimp

if when discussing guns you have to consult shit posted on the internet, then you have no clue what you're talking about. let me check my notes equals googling gun sites. well then you sure know your way around some guns tough guy.

you obvisouly know nothing of guns.....


my 3 year old will shoot straighter than you can see


and the only thing I googled real quick was the stats on the 762x39 about the drop....

now when you want to go to a range and show me how YOU shoot let me know ill provide you with alot of ammo to try to keep in in the 8 ring


there are great books that I reccomend everyone buy about handguns and hand gun stopping power

one is called street stoppers by Evan P. Marshall

great book


there was also a study in long long time ago called the strausberg goat test

which they shot live goats to see how long it took for the goat to drop ect ect then they took measurements...

fucking peta took that right away from us.....


now do your own reasearch and see where I am googling shit..... this if off the dome baby and if you want to go shooting during internext i will be happy to take ya with us....

[spunkmaster]

I know for a fact that the military got rid of the 9MM in Iraq and went to the .45 because they had to put 3 rounds in to stop a muzzy.

The .45 takes them down in one round !

[tedwinters]

Come on.. Kimber?
Kimber 1911 was good 10 years ago.. Now there's too much MIM...
Get a Les Baer, SVI, STI, Ed Brown Custom... the list goes on...

[GreyWolf]

DUH????

Why do people act like dumb tools and demonstrate their personality defects so obviously????