Alot of people have died or been wounded in Iraq...

[DatingGold]

and I still dont know why..

[L-Pink]

So we can have 95$ barrel oil?

[spunkmaster]

30 times more have died in the US from staph infections in the hospital
during this time and 25 times more have drowned in swimming pools.

The death rate in Iraq is lower then any major city in the USA
and military deaths overall have been just slightly higher the last five years
and we're at war !

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they deserved to die. I served over 20 years myself but we signed up to fight and death is what we know we signed up for if it came to that so these GIs weren't forced in to anything so stop crying for them.....

If you really care send 50 care packages to our troops and salute them !

[pr0]

because in the next 20 years, those who control the oil will control the world

bush took a shot at it....but we lost already

now we're just sticking around long enough to corrupt the new govt

we hope....

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Iraq was a no brainer dude.
The only ones gettin wasted are the ones blowing themselves up or trying to attack US Army Personnel.

In short they are killing themselves.

Iraq is not a war, it is a slaughter house for idiots.

[spunkmaster]

$90 oil has zero to do with Iraq.

High oil prices are because China and India are sucking up
more then the US and Europe right now and there's a worldwide
shortage on getting oil refined !

Evan Iran has to import refned oil now because they can't refine enough !

[spunkmaster]

Originally Posted by pr0

because in the next 20 years, those who control the oil will control the world

bush took a shot at it....but we lost already

now we're just sticking around long enough to corrupt the new govt

we hope....

In less then 10 years the US won't need oil anymore !

They have fuel cells now that will run a house for a
year and a car for 10 years !

[GreyWolf]

Hard to remain "calm" on the subject DG - but a small group of people just happen to be very greedy and wanted power - very selfish people who acted over and about the power they were entrusted with and not in the interests of those who gave them that power. They considered themselves 'superior' and assembled a small wolf pack of other nations to made it look less than rape. But sure - it was a gangbang and little to do with Saddam Hussein.

It would probably be hard to explain that to a person who had their family wiped out or a small girl with one leg or a refugee mother sitting in a desert camp holding her child already dead from "baby blues". (Dunno if you ever saw that footage of the mother - she was already in shock and had no clue her child was dead). Are these the 'enemy'?? Na.. innocent people.

OK.. far more died in Iraq, but.. there are also the people on the opposite side - they were sent to Iraq under a tissue of lies on the orders of a C-in-C of one country or another. They paid the price of the greed and ambitions of others. Kinda very sad.

Got not one ounce of sympathy for anyone who played a role in the instigation of the 'attempted rape' (the rape of assets will never really happen) - they are even worse than those who commit terrorist acts such as happened on 9/11, because they killed many more innocent people, abused both the forces under their command and the trust they were given. Would have no hesitation on watching the death penality be imposed on these people - they are the scum of the human species.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

In less then 10 years the US won't need oil anymore !

They have fuel cells now that will run a house for a
year and a car for 10 years !

More and more energy alternatives will become ECONOMICALLY VIABLE the longer oil stays expensive. If anything, this recent surge in oil prices might trigger the END of oil as the world's main source of energy.

It's funny how ECONOMICS works--the moment something becomes expensive, alternatives and substitutes are found. If the market dynamics are right, a tipping point is reached and the old standard product is a relic of the past.

Examples: whale oil, baleen corsets, etc etc.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

More and more energy alternatives will become ECONOMICALLY VIABLE the longer oil stays expensive. If anything, this recent surge in oil prices might trigger the END of oil as the world's main source of energy.

It's funny how ECONOMICS works--the moment something becomes expensive, alternatives and substitutes are found. If the market dynamics are right, a tipping point is reached and the old standard product is a relic of the past.

Examples: whale oil, baleen corsets, etc etc.

whale oil!!!!

[papill0n]

Originally Posted by DatingGold

and I still dont know why..

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by pr0

whale oil!!!!

Yep, whale oil was the main source of lighting oil in the late 1800s. Whale species almost disappeared........ until petroleum-based kerosene came into vogue. As the whales got scarcer, prices climbed up so a cheaper alternative was found.

I see the same thing happening to petroleum. It's high price will bring about its end.

Source: Leviathan: The History of Whaling in America by Eric Jay Dolin

[GreyWolf]

The map of the percentage oil consumpton Ben?

Ironic that only 5% of the world population are so self-indulged that they feel a need to consume 25% of oil resources, yet, sadly, cannot even manage to have a sustainable economic system and have the need to still borrow from others - then kill others to accquire more oil.

That is awesome and seriously sad.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Yep, whale oil was the main source of lighting oil in the late 1800s. Whale species almost disappeared........ until petroleum-based kerosene came into vogue. As the whales got scarcer, prices climbed up so a cheaper alternative was found.

I see the same thing happening to petroleum. It's high price will bring about its end.

Source: Leviathan: The History of Whaling in America by Eric Jay Dolin

yea only you didn't need to buy a $20,000 device to burn the newer oil

you just swapped out the existing tank with the new shit

i think its somewhat different, but i feel ya in general, once oil hits $10 a gallon...we're looking at a rapid switchover

[GreyWolf]

*lol* Another typical GFY thread .... DG asks about people in Iraq and wondering....

So... the thread starts from the second message onwards about "self" and "how we can get oil or a replacement". How fucking disgusting and self-centred.

[JamesK]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

The death rate in Iraq is lower then any major city in the USA and military deaths overall have been just slightly higher the last five years and we're at war !

True, but the death rate of a city includes old people who die naturally and also sick people. The soldiers are young and fit and die for no good reason. Sure, they might be brave people and I respect them for serving their country, but Iraq was in my opinion one big mistake.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

*lol* Another typical GFY thread .... DG asks about people in Iraq and wondering....

So... the thread starts from the second message onwards about "self" and "how we can get oil or a replacement". How fucking disgusting and self-centred.

That's what makes online conversations particularly interesting. It is often nonlinear and fragmentary which, for me at least, is interesting and informative as many other side topics are discussed.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by JamesK

True, but the death rate of a city includes old people who die naturally and also sick people. The soldiers are young and fit and die for no good reason. Sure, they might be brave people and I respect them for serving their country, but Iraq was in my opinion one big mistake.

Agree James - cities in the US or anywhere else, have nothing to do with bombing and killing people.

[papill0n]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

The map of the percentage oil consumpton Ben?

Ironic that only 5% of the world population are so self-indulged that they feel a need to consume 25% of oil resources, yet, sadly, cannot even manage to have a sustainable economic system and have the need to still borrow from others - then kill others to accquire more oil.

That is awesome and seriously sad.

Oh yeah it doesn't have a title LOL sorry about that!

Yeah GreyWolf that is indeed a map of relative oil consumption per country.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

So in summary...

America takes 25% of the worlds Oil while more then 1/2 of it has no idea how to utilise Oil while another 1/4 composed of veritable nations that are either "Modern and Industrialisd" or just becomming "Modern and Industrialised" use Oil in an industrial manor.

Unfortunatly most of the Oil consumed by the United States is actually resold and delivered abroad for Textiles, Plastics, and other various material products that other nations require to industrialise. Though the oil is resold it is reconstituted for vital materials other nations require.

Looks like America made a pretty good bet on Iraq.
To bad other nations of the world can not..

A: Get there shit together.
B: See the value in creating a peaceful Middle East.
C: Sideline everything and hope for hand outs as America set's the pace for the rest of the world.
D: Wine about the declining American Dollar as the world globalises from American investment which is paid in full with blood.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

So in summary...

America takes 25% of the worlds Oil while more then 1/2 of it has no idea how to utilise Oil while another 1/4 composed of veritable nations that are either "Modern and Industrialisd" or just becomming "Modern and Industrialised" use Oil in an industrial manor.

Unfortunatly most of the Oil consumed by the United States is actually resold and delivered abroad for Textiles, Plastics, and other various material products that other nations require to industrialise. Though the oil is resold it is reconstituted for vital materials other nations require.

Looks like America made a pretty good bet on Iraq.
To bad other nations of the world can not..

A: Get there shit together.
B: See the value in creating a peaceful Middle East.
C: Sideline everything and hope for hand outs as America set's the pace for the rest of the world.
D: Wine about the declining American Dollar as the world globalises from American investment which is paid in full with blood.

Awesome conclusions - tho crap

In comparison with, at least, most other nations, the US is the largest waster of oil, especially with only 5% population. It is not accurate to say most oil "is actually resold and delivered abroad" - very little is. The US uses 21mill/barrels/day. Approx 30% is used on industry and around 3% in power plants. The remainder is used for transport.

In practice, 67%, or over 14 million barrels/day is burned thru exhaust systems. If and when, (prob next week), oil costs $100/barrel, we are talking of $1.4 bill/day on mainly personal transport. No nation on earth consumes/wastes that level of oil (pro rata population).

It is obviously not possible to just wipe off 67% and call it "saved", but sure is possible to reduce that consumption from 67% down to 40-45% at least. At 40%, that is a saving (assuming $100 again, which is likely to go higher) of $835mill/day. That is $835mill/day which does not have to be borrowed from other nations (where the current borrowing is over $10bill/day).

Just checked other main consumers - US uses 21mill barrels, the second main consumer is China with 6.9 mill barrels - and most of that is consumed to create wealth. The third nation is Japan, where they use 5.4mill barrels.

And... a note on Japan and a comparison with the US. Pro rata population with the US, Japan would only use 12.6 mill/barrels/day if it's population matched that of the US. It sure makes you wonder how the US manages to squander the difference between 21 mill barrels and 12.6 mill barrels - a difference of 40%.

So.. forget other nations They can afford to pay for their oil and don't waste it. The US has to borrow to buy oil - then pay interest on these loans. So - "get your shit together" Get in line with the rest of the world else the US will be totally economically screwed - time is running out - fairly quickly.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben

Oh yeah it doesn't have a title LOL sorry about that!

Yeah GreyWolf that is indeed a map of relative oil consumption per country.

Hehe - thanks Ben

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

$90 oil has zero to do with Iraq.

High oil prices are because China and India are sucking up
more then the US and Europe right now and there's a worldwide
shortage on getting oil refined !

Evan Iran has to import refned oil now because they can't refine enough !

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

And... a note on Japan and a comparison with the US. Pro rata population with the US, Japan would only use 12.6 mill/barrels/day if it's population matched that of the US. It sure makes you wonder how the US manages to squander the difference between 21 mill barrels and 12.6 mill barrels - a difference of 40%.

Japan is slightly smaller than the state of California and their population density is way higher than the US. It takes a lot of fuel to move goods and people around a landmass the size of the US.

Plus the GDP of the US is almost three times higher than the GDP of Japan. They're not achieving that kind of economic productivity by burning wood.

Besides, the US isn't even the highest consumer of oil per capita - they are the 17th highest - just above Canada. Luxembourg for example consumes almost twice as much oil per capita than the US.

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

30 times more have died in the US from staph infections in the hospital
during this time and 25 times more have drowned in swimming pools.

The death rate in Iraq is lower then any major city in the USA
and military deaths overall have been just slightly higher the last five years
and we're at war !

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they deserved to die. I served over 20 years myself but we signed up to fight and death is what we know we signed up for if it came to that so these GIs weren't forced in to anything so stop crying for them.....

If you really care send 50 care packages to our troops and salute them !

The point we are moaning is that they are dieing for their country, they are dieing for NOTHING and dieing on a pack of lies.

[polle54]

well....

I bet you can multiply the number by 10 if they did nothing and Saddam continued to kill his own people....

Still there's a lot of thing which could be done better during this war and the technical terms we went to war on was of course bogus but I think everyone new that already then.

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by polle54

well....

I bet you can multiply the number by 10 if they did nothing and Saddam continued to kill his own people....

Still there's a lot of thing which could be done better during this war and the technical terms we went to war on was of course bogus but I think everyone new that already then.

You sir, are an idiot


"His own people" you reffer to, are the same people that the Turks are dropping bombs on right now, these "his own people" caused trouble to saddam for years and years (the PKK). And this is all beside the point that the USA encouraged saddam to do it.

Nothing personal against you, i just hate it when people use that excuse "if saddam was still there, more people would be dieing"

Go back to school

[Shok]

by far the most annoying poster on this board is GreyWolf


Every thread you post the same bullshit.

1. No matter how hard you try, no one thinks you are smarter than anyone else

2. No one gives a fuck

3. Saying 10,000 times only makes you more annoying

[polle54]

Originally Posted by buzzy

You sir, are an idiot


"His own people" you reffer to, are the same people that the Turks are dropping bombs on right now, these "his own people" caused trouble to saddam for years and years (the PKK). And this is all beside the point that the USA encouraged saddam to do it.

Nothing personal against you, i just hate it when people use that excuse "if saddam was still there, more people would be dieing"

Go back to school

Should I go back to school?????

You better read up on how many people Saddam killed.

Please explain to me why you embrace those mass murders that Saddam executed like no one else. He oppressed his people in a manner almost inexplainable.

I am not saying Bush cares - and I doubt that he does.

But don't call me uneducated or an idiot.

I just hate when it people can't see a situation from more than one side....

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by Shok

by far the most annoying poster on this board is GreyWolf


Every thread you post the same bullshit.

1. No matter how hard you try, no one thinks you are smarter than anyone else

2. No one gives a fuck

3. Saying 10,000 times only makes you more annoying

Yea what an annoying fuck. No sure why these idiots feel the need to hang out on a webmaster board spouting their propaganda all day. Isn't there a Code Pink or ANSWER rally somewhere they should be at? Fucking morons.

[polle54]

one of many:

On March 16, 1988 Iraqi troops, on orders from Saddam to stop a Kurdish uprising, attacked the Kurdish town of Halabjah with a mix of poison gas and nerve agents killing 5,000 people, mostly women and children.

[Phoenix]

im liking Grey Wolf

keep posting

[Paul Markham]

What ever you say about Saddam and he was evil, corrupt and criminal. However he held the country together and stopped them from killing each other. Iraq is not Texas or England, it's country and people that's very backward, have little problem killing anyone they don't like. They don't really care if the get killed in doing it.

Not we have Shiites killing Sunnis, the Kurds are killing Turks and Turkey is being told to swallow it. And the Muslims kill more Muslims than they do Westerners. They also condemn themselves and their country to staying in the Dark Ages.

They don't care. The Mullahs tell them to stay in the Dark Ages and they swallow it.

[sumphatpimp]

if you blow yourself up you can have 10,000 virgins.
what's a virgin?

[Paul Markham]

From here erols.com

Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979-2003): 300 000
Human Rights Watch: "twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule ... murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis" [http://www.hrw.org/wr2k4/3.htm]
8/9 Dec. 2003 AP: Total murders

New survey estimates 61,000 residents of Baghdad executed by Saddam.
US Government estimates a total of 300,000 murders
180,000 Kurds k. in Anfal
60,000 Shiites in 1991
50,000 misc. others executed

From here washingtonpost.com

A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.

And we are spending billions for it, Iran is doing what it likes with nuclear power and the whole area is less stable. Good one Bush and Blair.

[polle54]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

From here erols.com



From here washingtonpost.com



And we are spending billions for it, Iran is doing what it likes with nuclear power and the whole area is less stable. Good one Bush and Blair.

damn that some wild numbers by the Washington Post... I hope that's not true... I lack some more sources for this story I kinda a doubt the way they got to that number...

Anyhow all I am saying... what Saddam did to keep this from happening was not okay and it was not right... it may have saved some lives but it never justifies killing 5000 children and women and 250.000 others for that matter...

The means to the goal was not okay....

Anyhow it's a tough issue... because I do not support the Iraq war per say. I am just casting light on some of the aspects that may count towards a war since the contrary seemed to be the essence of this thread.