Federal Government Training Fire Fighters To Spy On US Citizens

[BoyAlley]

It was revealed last week that firefighters are being trained to not only keep an eye out for illegal materials in the course of their duties, but even to report back any expression of discontent with the government.

A year ago, Homeland Security gave security clearances to nine New York City fire chiefs and began sharing intelligence with them. Even before that, fire department personnel were being taught "to identify material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities" and were also "told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States."

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Homela...ic _1129.html

Shit like this makes me discontent with the United States, fills me with hostile feelings, and doesn't make me want to be very cooperative with anyone.

Shove that up your firehoses.

[BoyAlley]

Keith Olbermann is a true American:

Keith Olbermann raised the alarm about the program on his show Wednesday, noting that "if the information-sharing program works in New York, the department says it will extend it to other major metropolitan areas, unless we stop them." He then asked Mike German, a former FBI agent who is now with the ACLU, "This program seems to be turning [firefighters], essentially, into legally protected domestic spies, does it not?"

"That's the entire intent," German replied, noting the serious legal issues involved. "There is actually still a fourth amendment," he pointed out, "and what makes a firefighter's search reasonable is that it's done to prevent a fire. If now firefighters are going in with this secondary purpose, that end run around the fourth amendment won't work, and it's likely that they will find themselves in legal trouble."

[dav3]

Wasting tax dollars on this program will do absolutely no good in protecting our country from 'terrorists'.

[Makaveli]

You live in a Police State. Get used to it.

Rage - "Freedom? Yeeeeeeeeeeah Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!!!!!!!!!!"

[Why]

iv been hostile towards the us government for years. doesnt mean im a terrorist.

[who]

Honestly, complaining doesn't help. And there's only going to be an increasing number of things to complain about. Get out of U.S.A. if you don't like it. And if you DO like it -you're seriously fucked up.

U.S.A. is fucked.

[IllTestYourGirls]

more and more reason to vote Ron Paul

[LiveDose]

1@9*8%4.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Homela...ic _1129.html

Shit like this makes me discontent with the United States, fills me with hostile feelings, and doesn't make me want to be very cooperative with anyone.

Shove that up your firehoses.

then get the fuck out.

how utterly ridiculous that *this* is your objection.

[OG LennyT]

I would move out of country if I were you.

[Makaveli]

Canada love homo's come on over guy...

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by Makaveli

You live in a Police State. Get used to it.

Rage - "Freedom? Yeeeeeeeeeeah Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!!!!!!!!!!"

What does the billboard say come n play come n play forget about the movement!

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

then get the fuck out.

how utterly ridiculous that *this* is your objection.

then get the fuck out.


how utterly ridiculous that *this* is your objection.

[Phoenix]

report your neighbour it is your civic duty

be proud of your america

wow...i know no one from the usa was taught any history growing up...but that is exactly how it started in germany

fascism is in

[Makaveli]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3ueEfRXZCVA Enjoy

[SifuE]

saw that video a while back, tried to tell people about it.. it is insane,,

[D]

Be sure to voice your opinion at the ballot box as able.

Write your representatives.

Get involved in organizations such as the ACLU if you're not already involved.

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by D

Be sure to voice your opinion at the ballot box as able.

Write your representatives.

Get involved in organizations such as the ACLU if you're not already involved.

Done done and DONE!

I'm very active in politics, with both my time and my money, have been since I turned 18.

I think this "if you don't like it leave it" attitude expressed by so many in here is just ridiculous. I'm more of a "if you don't like it work to change it" kind of guy.

I love my country, I just don't love the things that have been done to it over the past 8 years.

[Makaveli]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Honestly, if you believe that video there is something wrong with you.

Ok nobody if you say so..

[D]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Done done and DONE!

I'm very active in politics, with both my time and my money, have been since I turned 18.

I think this "if you don't like it leave it" attitude expressed by so many in here is just ridiculous. I'm more of a "if you don't like it work to change it" kind of guy.

I love my country, I just don't love the things that have been done to it over the past 8 years.

"Love it or leave it" has to be one of the most Anti-American directions for its citizenry to go... yet, here we are.

Hopefully, we'll be through the thick of it inside the next 2 years.

Thanks for the link, btw.

[The Judge]

you can only blame the camel fuckers for that

[Makaveli]

Originally Posted by The Judge

you can only blame the camel fuckers for that

They're not the ones slowly taking away your freedom ya stooge. Com'on open your eyes for just a minute to whats really going on.

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by Makaveli

They're not the ones slowly taking away your freedom ya stooge. Com'on open your eyes for just a minute to whats really going on.

The guy has a confederate flag in his sig. Enough said.

[Sly]

I understand where you're coming from... but my question is this... if a firefighter goes into an apartment to put out a fire and sees materials for making bombs and other mass deadly weapons... don't they have a responsibility to report these things? Shouldn't these things create alarm? Shouldn't they be investigated?

You seriously want people to turn their heads the other way instead of taking a little action and seeing what the deal is? Why? So in five years when there is another big disaster everyone can say "those firefighters should have seen those bombs, why didn't they stop them?!"

If a firefighter came into my house and saw a bomb sitting on my table and said nothing... wow, I don't think I would want them being a firefighter.

[The Judge]

aren't firefighters a popular gay theme like policemen, soldiers etc. ?

[The Judge]

Yeah but if it wasn't for them and other children of the devil from the same continent America today would still be an innocent country like it was meant to be.

Originally Posted by Makaveli

They're not the ones slowly taking away your freedom ya stooge. Com'on open your eyes for just a minute to whats really going on.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Sly

I understand where you're coming from... but my question is this... if a firefighter goes into an apartment to put out a fire and sees materials for making bombs and other mass deadly weapons... don't they have a responsibility to report these things? Shouldn't these things create alarm? Shouldn't they be investigated?

You seriously want people to turn their heads the other way instead of taking a little action and seeing what the deal is? Why? So in five years when there is another big disaster everyone can say "those firefighters should have seen those bombs, why didn't they stop them?!"

If a firefighter came into my house and saw a bomb sitting on my table and said nothing... wow, I don't think I would want them being a firefighter.

thats all fine and dandy..plans for making bombs should be reported by everyone


but soon..it will be this person is odd..i think they are terrorist

it will expand from there

[Poontank]

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

report your neighbour it is your civic duty

be proud of your america

wow...i know no one from the usa was taught any history growing up...but that is exactly how it started in germany

fascism is in

listen tard... thats not "exactly how it started in germany" - we didn't just lose world war 1, we didnt just see a monarchy collapse, we didn't just have the military revolt against the government, we dont have communists, socialists, fascists and 50 other parties violently competing for political power, we are not a weak state with a weak government and weak and innefective leader, wrestling with a totally devistated post-war economy, we are not quietly laying the groundwork for the massive extermination of jews and all the other insane shit that happened in germany at the time that created the environment that enabled Hitler to ascend to power and do achieve what he did.

you don't have be a history expert to understand that.

the only comparison that can be made is that there are alwayss the same misguided idiots making irrelevant, over-sensational comparisons to further their own agendas because they think their brand of isanity and idiocy is "right"

i think arguing and debate is necessary for a healthy democracy.

i just hate the idiocy that the arguments are based on.

as i get older, i realize the horrible truth of politics...

Democracy = Lowest Common Denominator. thank you for playing, idiots.

[sumphatpimp]

if you were not stealing fire hoses and jamming them up your ass they wouldn't be interested in you. at first the firemen thought this was kind of funny, but now it has gotten serious and cost some big money to replace all those hoses.
give back those hoses you are hoarding.
and why the hell do you want to jam fire hoses up your ass?

[kmanrox]

my opinion is that it's OK... its every citizen's duty to protect its country, i'd think it especially someone whose very job it is to protect its citizens would be on the lookout for terrorist(ic) activity.

[DaddyHalbucks]

I have been pretty impressed with the level of professionalism in most federal agencies.

Local and state agencies is another matter..

Still, I don't want the Feds running health care and I have no faith that they can solve all social problems. All social problems will never be solved no matter how big you grow the government.

Nevertheless, keeping a heads up for terrorists is a good idea. I don't see how this infringes on civil liberties.

[dready]

Firemen can go into any house without a warrant. Very convenient.

Reminds me of 'Fahrenheit 451' by Ray Bradbury.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

I have been pretty impressed with the level of professionalism in most federal agencies.

Local and state agencies is another matter..

Still, I don't want the Feds running health care and I have no faith that they can solve all social problems. All social problems will never be solved no matter how big you grow the government.

Nevertheless, keeping a heads up for terrorists is a good idea. I don't see how this infringes on civil liberties.

the issue of dealing with terrorism is an interesting issue, particularly for those who are more motivated by politics and paranoia, rather than finding practical solutions to practical problems.

they seem (by their arguments) to want both absolute privacy AND absolute security. Afterall, big government, patriot act, guantanomo etc etc etc or violently opposed to, but they can agree that they need protection and security OR... of course there are those who throw in the "those who would trade their freedom for security deserve neither" remark as if that means anything in the real world... and that we are not really talking about degrees and implies that government should always be at a huge dissadvantage to terrorists and criminals so everyone can feel more comfortable that no one see's their library history or how many soft core porns they ordered on cable.

so... what is the best answer? how many dead children are acceptable because someone ignored something they happened to notice might be suspicious behavior but didn't report it? how many WTC's should be blown up because we "shouldn't judge" others or "profile" criminals? How many planes should be hijacked because we can't single out terrorists or certain nationalities, religions etc for security screening have to have a totally fair and random process that doesn't offend anyone's sensibilities?

what i think is a very interesting issue that NEVER comes up is that deep down, we have all decided that there is such a thing as "acceptable losses" or "acceptable collateral damage" ... we can accept the idea that a certain amount of carnage and death will occur and we are very willing to accept that in order to protect what we precieve to be our "rights" while outwardly arguing differently.

if you don't do everything humanly possible to protect people from events you know will occur... from people you know are trying to comitt acts of terrorism, are you killing them? are you a murderer? we tell ourselves we're not of course... but where is the line? its all very gray and horrid to even think about.. so gray and so horrid that we like to distract ourselves with the specifics of the argument like "what NY fire department was told to do" so we can ignore the bigger picture of "how many people might be brutally murdered if they failed to recognize the signs and prevent something that could have been prevented" without having to confront the brutal realities, sacrifices and compromises that MUST be made.