I need to vent --- about a fucked up deal

[CXA]

Five weeks ago today, I was contacted by a guy --- let's call him Larry --- from one of the BIG BOYS of the porn world. Everyone of you reading this would recognize the company name.

They wanted to buy my site and hire me to help them build their own version of the site. In fact, they had contacted me looking to buy my site 3 months earlier in Vegas.

While this company is HUGE in the porn world, they are total unknowns in the escort world which is my specialty.

Everything was going fine. We were in total agreement about just about every aspect of the deal ... until we started talking about the money. Larry and I went back and forth and we got closer and closer. We spoke just about every day for anywhere from 30 min to two hours.

When Larry first contacted me I was working on some deals that got started at the Phoenix Forum. The deal with Larry was moving along so smoothly that I told Larry that I was shelving those other deals in favor of the one with him --- BIG MISTAKE.

Then he introduces me to one of his partners in the deal --- lets call him Moe. Moe was a bit of a dick but we were able to find common ground on a few key areas. I caught him in a couple of lies regarding not-too-important things and that should have set off the alarm bells. But, I wanted the deal to go through so I didn't make any fuss about the lies.

The biggest mistake I made was to express my desire to wrap this up quickly because I could use the money for another project I'm working on. I knew that telling them about this would weaken my negotiating posture but it was honest and I thought I was dealing with someone with some integrity. Another mistake.

Larry and Moe had a third partner. The boss. The money-guy in the organization. We'll call him The Big Cheese. I had heard many stories about Cheese. He has a pretty good reputation -- or so I've heard.

All along Larry kept promising me that he knew Cheese for 20 years and that all we needed was to work out the deal between us and that Moe & Cheese go along with his recommendation. That turned out to me The Mother of all Lies in this little drama.

The deal is getting worse and worse for me every time I talk to them. We finally arrived at a deal I wasn't particularly thrilled with, but it was a door-opener with Cheese's company. So we all get on a conference call. Moe, Larry, Cheese --- and me. Then Moe cuts loose with 'revised deal' that was LESS THAN HALF of what I thought we were already agreed.

While Moe is butt-fucking me without any lube, Larry is being the biggest weasel. It was like the 20+ hours of negotiation and discussion never happened. He was lying through his teeth about promises and statements he had made.

Every step along the way I documented every assertion I made regarding traffic, revenues, SEO, etc. However no one could explain to me how they arrived at this INSULTING offer. Moe tried throwing some BS at me but I had done my homework and his partial answer made no sense whatsoever.

By their own admission, Moe and Larry had not given Cheese much of the details. They only had given him the briefest summary and I suspect that even that was a distorted version of the real deal. Cheese gives me some story about how the "finance department" had come up with the numbers. Yeah .. And I believe in Santa Clause, too.

LET ME BE CLEAR ABOUT SOMETHING: I'm not upset because a deal fell apart. Deals fall apart all the time. What I AM PISSED ABOUT is that these guys wasted 5 weeks of my life -- time I could have spent pursuing the other options I had. They all lied to me. They took what should have been a medium-sized "bargaining chip" that a business man -- with scruples -- could use to get a few extra percentage points in his favor and blew it up to a sledge-hammer to try to low-ball me.

HAPPY FOOT-NOTE When the final nail was hammered into the deal today, I reached out to a couple of competitors of the Three Stooges. One of them is interested in the deal on it's own merits and if we give the Stooges a major dose of competition than that's icing on the cake.

Thanx for reading this. I feel better already just having written it.

[XPays]

condensed version please

[Iron Fist]

Sucks.. but greed is a painful teacher.

[TheSenator]

Yeah...whatever....

[DBS.US]

Originally Posted by XPays

condensed version please

The biggest mistake I made was to express my desire to wrap this up quickly because I could use the money for another project I'm working on. I knew that telling them about this would weaken my negotiating posture but it was honest and I thought I was dealing with someone with some integrity. Another mistake.

[XPays]

Originally Posted by DBS.US

The biggest mistake I made was to express my desire to wrap this up quickly because I could use the money for another project I'm working on. I knew that telling them about this would weaken my negotiating posture but it was honest and I thought I was dealing with someone with some integrity. Another mistake.

stay honest- do not look back. shit happens for a reason

[Spunky]

Call it a learning experience

[F-U-Jimmy]

I like cheese but this cheese sounds as though its gone off !!

Usually when something like this happens a better deal comes along shortly after

[Jim_Gunn]

Your biggest mistake was talking to these jokers for hours and hours every day for weeks on end. I don't care how complicated the deal supposedly is. After a few hors of discussion, you agree on terms, you fax them a contract, you go through or two revisions at most and then either they sign it or they don't. Anything more than that is a waste of time and means they aren't serious.

[ppixel01]

fucked up is always on the way, point is.. we better be care full choosing our partner

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Never count the money until it is in your hand and you will never be dissappointed again.. Also..
Money talks, bull shit walks..

Never blew any one off on a deal because you think you closed it with someone else.. Wait untill you have the money...

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by XPays

condensed version please

Why, I oughta...



ADG

[DBS.US]

[GAMEFINEST]

learned the hard way

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

Your biggest mistake was talking to these jokers for hours and hours every day for weeks on end. I don't care how complicated the deal supposedly is. After a few hors of discussion, you agree on terms, you fax them a contract, you go through or two revisions at most and then either they sign it or they don't. Anything more than that is a waste of time and means they aren't serious.

yep and as my boss used to say time kills all deals.

[CXA]

Great replies. I felt better just writing it but you guys have really helped me put this all into perspective. Thanx

Lemons into Lemonade

[pornpf69]

who are the new guys?
I am really curious about them...

[CXA]

This is ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY HYSTERICAL.

As I said in the original post, this company is HUGE. It is well known that they are in "Merger & Acquisition Mode". Obviously, this was a good thing. It gave credibility to the whole process. They wouldn't be wasting their time unless they were serious.

From the beginning Larry and Moe had told me that I was just one of many sites they wanted to scoop up. No one else had actually sold to them yet. I was going to be the first.

Well, on the first conference call with all Three Stooges -- there were two calls over 3 days -- Mr. Cheese himself is trying to justify the LOW-BALL offer I had just heard from Moe. Cheese tells me that even though I didn't think the offer was a good one it was more than they had budgeted for.

Cheese himself tells me about his Merger & Acquisition budget. He shared wih me the figure they had budgeted for ALL THEIR ACQUISITIONS.

When I heard the number -- from Cheese's mouth -- I totally cracked up -- on the inside. I'm glad we weren't on a video-conference call.

Are you ready for this?
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Are you sitting down?
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Can you use a good laugh?
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Well here it comes
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The TOTAL BUDGET for buying active and profitable escort sites is:
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$15,000
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That is not a typo.
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Fifteen Thousand Dollars is the TOTAL that Cheese SAYS he originally budgeted for buying sites all over the country.
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Cheese's companies are worth many millions of dollars. I have to assume that Cheese is a pretty smart guy to achieve the success he's gotten.
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So, I figure that the $15K figure was a lie in a pathetic attempt to justify the butt-fucking I was getting.

To add insult to injury, they first low-ball me BIG TIME then insult me even further with this bullshit story about how I'm getting a good price compared to their budget.
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I had been "stewing" about that aspect of the melt-down for the last couple of days. But now I'm just laughing at the whole thing.
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Thanx again everyone. I can move forward now.

[CXA]

Originally Posted by pornpf69

who are the new guys?
I am really curious about them...

What new guys?

If you're asking about the real identity of the Three Stooges I'll have to decline.

They're not new. In fact they've been in the internet porn biz since the beginning.

[Nicky]

Fuck, cliff notes??

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

Your biggest mistake was talking to these jokers for hours and hours every day for weeks on end. I don't care how complicated the deal supposedly is. After a few hors of discussion, you agree on terms, you fax them a contract, you go through or two revisions at most and then either they sign it or they don't. Anything more than that is a waste of time and means they aren't serious.

Exactly.

In some of the biggest deals I have ever done, from content, to selling sites off for $XX,XXX the deals were reached in a very short period of time. Some are 'recognized names' around here, but I can honestly tell you that they are in the shadows despite being "the BIG BOYS" who are in every fucking thread, or in the middle of the dramas.

I have talked to the "BIG BOYS" over content, and many other deals over the years. Not all of them, but enough to have hit the 75% of the most recognized names. I can tell you this...

Mostl claim to have "more chiefs they need to check with" before agreeing to terms. Also they will spend countless hours measuring e-penis about 'what they think it's worth' versus years of numbers showing otherwise. They also try and get it for a song, and get you to agree to some of the most unrealistic terms I've ever heard.

Like exclusive rights for a few thousand dollars, with permission to resale. Yeah right bitch.

If you've been in this industry for any serious length of time, and know a thing or two, you'll find a lot, again not all, of people in this business live up to every, slimy, greasy, stereotype we've all heard.

More over, you'll find a lot of these companies who claim they are rolling wit PHAT, mad dollas, and big pimpin' in their mansions with the bikini clad woman licking their lambos in the drive way are bullshit.

You have a few kingpins, and most of those you do not hear about or see on the boards anymore. You have some mid-high level players, and I would bet good cash money that the vast majority VISIBLE on the board in this industry 'full time' are between $24-50k annual.

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Nicky

Fuck, cliff notes??

This guy wanted to sell his sites to this company and he was not patient and tried to hustle the hustler...









1.3 of your yearly revenue is all sites are worth right now...





This summer is the time to either sell or hold....
Your choice....



1.3....











I am buying myself!

[IntenseJerry]

Originally Posted by Spunky

Call it a learning experience

Just learn from it, or it will cost you more down the line...

[CXA]

Hey BF,

Excellent points. I've heard them all before but you did a great job sewing them together.

I run the biggest escort site in Florida. Started it in 1999.

On one hand, I'm no "newbie" to the adult biz. But it's less than I year since I opened shop in the porn side of town so in that respect I'm still wet behind the ears.

[CXA]

Jon Clark,

Not Patient???? This took 5 weeks. Everyone else is saying it dragged out much longer than necessary.

Also the offer was way less than the 1.3

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by CXA

Hey BF,

Excellent points. I've heard them all before but you did a great job sewing them together.

I run the biggest escort site in Florida. Started it in 1999.

On one hand, I'm no "newbie" to the adult biz. But it's less than I year since I opened shop in the porn side of town so in that respect I'm still wet behind the ears.

Contact me.. I can help you keep ownership and triple your revenue........................

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by CXA

Jon Clark,

Not Patient???? This took 5 weeks. Everyone else is saying it dragged out much longer than necessary.

Also the offer was way less than the 1.3

5 weeks... For sites you have worked on for years.... Jeez....





Takes awhile to get things in line for big deals....

You jumped the gun and wanted your payday faster then it was going to come and lost...




They would have paid 1.3...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Jon Clark

1.3 of your yearly revenue is all sites are worth right now...

This is an incomplete sentence. You left out the, "to YOU", at the end.

People do not need to sell for less that a site's worth (18-24 mo. depending on the site, and proof of rev, traffic, ref, members, etc). Just because one person offers you insulting 6-10-12 month offers doesn't mean you have to take it.

But if you are desperate, and they know it, then you are going to get taken advantage of. I've sold every online asset for what I wanted to get out of it. However, I was in a position to walk away.

Whether it was an insulting offer, wanting resale, re-licensing rights, unfair or bullshit 15-35% splits on cam/clip/vod.... whatever. I've even walked away at the last second because they changed the terms, or I did not like how they were trying to pay me. You get every worm trying to hustle you, and hit you with classics like, 'this is how we do business'. That's fine, but not how I do it. So I can walk away.

I know what a site, or internet property is worth, and I am willing to wait to get it and always have. Many, I've found in mainstream and adult, negotiate from positions of weakness. Needing money, and get a lot less that shit is worth. While I think it's complete bullshit myself, I guess you need to watch, "the Gambler", a few more times.

The lesson in this case is, for you, enter business deals from a position of strength. Not weakness (i.e. needing money). I completely agree with your position in this situation. I would have walked myself. I have no time for silly reindeer games. Regardless of the dollar amount.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by XPays

condensed version please

He thought he was selling something for one amount and they ended up low balling him.

He passed up other ops dealing with them.


I think.

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Have have admitted here that you got in a hurry... Where is the arguement..?

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by Jon Clark

This guy wanted to sell his sites to this company and he was not patient and tried to hustle the hustler...









1.3 of your yearly revenue is all sites are worth right now...





This summer is the time to either sell or hold....
Your choice....



1.3....











I am buying myself!

You directing this one at me??

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by CXA

Hey BF,

Excellent points. I've heard them all before but you did a great job sewing them together.

I run the biggest escort site in Florida. Started it in 1999.

On one hand, I'm no "newbie" to the adult biz. But it's less than I year since I opened shop in the porn side of town so in that respect I'm still wet behind the ears.

Hang in there chief. If you really want to get what it's worth. Sometimes it's best to wait it out.

I'll simply say that if you talk to a lot of the "BIG BOYS" at any point in time over the years in regards to negotiations (content, sites, services), you'll find a lot of the stories told on the boards are fairy tales to put it mildly. Most are broke as a joke.

Fortunately, if you do it enough. You can see the true grease balls coming out of the gate. Ready to low ball you with insulting offers, or try their pea brains mental challenge antics with a game of e-penis.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

1st of all you should have been talking to cheese and cheese only.

His monkeys found you sloshed you around because thats what monkeys do. Monkeys fuck everything up. Always talk to the guy with the wallet in this case Mr. Big Cheese.
You do this for many reasons.

1: The monkey's want to impress the big cheese infact they will fuck anything up to impress the Big Cheese including you.

2: You deal with Big Cheese because then you get to know him as a person and business partner. After the deal Big Cheese will respect you more for going to him for the deal and not go into with his monkeys that whisper stupid shit in his ear.

3: the monkeys do not even fucking matter, this game is all about Big Cheese first then monkeys later. If Cheese wants it, he get's it and the ordeal would have been short and sweet...

[baddog]

I would expect my commission to be a lot more than 15k. And 1.3 is not reality. If it were that easy.

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Nicky

You directing this one at me??

No not at all... And the company I suspected was not the one...

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by CXA

Jon Clark

Nice talk we had on the phone..




I am looking forward to the follow up...













Thread closed...


Nothing more to see here!

[vending_machine]

Is it just me or is there a pretty obvious answer to who this alleged company is?... Seems like a braindead monkey could connect the dots.

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by vending_machine

Is it just me or is there a pretty obvious answer to who this alleged company is?... Seems like a braindead monkey could connect the dots.

Actually...





It is not hahaha!

[CyberHustler]

Originally Posted by Jon Clark

Nice talk we had on the phone..




I am looking forward to the follow up...













Thread closed...


Nothing more to see here!

Good shit! If there is anybody that can get things going in the right direction for this guy, it is YOU!

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Good Luck to everyone all have a good night!

Jon Clark been bustin moves here and there lately.
I am gonna watch this guy.