When did the word Liberal become a dirty word?

[kane]

I was watching Fox News last night and they had on people that support each of the final three candidates for president. So the McCain guy says that McCain would not try to convince the people that Obama is something he is not, but that he would call him a liberal.

When they asked the Obama supporter if he would run as a liberal he wouldn't answer. When asked if he was a liberal he wouldn't answer. It suddenly seems like being a liberal is a horrible thing.

I consider myself an independent. I am more conservative on economic ideas (old school conservative where you spend wisely and balance the budget, not modern conservative where you spend everything then go into debt and spend some more), but I am pretty liberal socially. I think gay people should be allowed to get married, pot should be legal (even though I wouldn't smoke it more than maybe once a year) and the government should have no control over what people watch, listen to or read.

I understand that some people seem to think being liberal means you will raise taxes and give it all away to people on welfare, but that is not the case, some of the largest welfare reform came while we had a democrat in the white house.

So I wonder when did the word liberal become a dirty word? I would think if a person said, "I am a liberal and this is what I stand for." And laid out their agenda, people would see it is not, traditionally, that different from old school conservatism in many aspects.

[spanky part 2]

Liberal = Patriot

[IllTestYourGirls]

liberalism is far from old school conservatism but very close to neo-con. And to answer your question Clinton made it a dirty word. He set back the democratic party 8 years.

[D]

Oddly enough, about the same time that Fox "News" developed.

[kane]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

liberalism is far from old school conservatism but very close to neo-con. And to answer your question Clinton made it a dirty word. He set back the democratic party 8 years.

Well, here is part of the definition of liberism, "Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government."

Old school conservatives want less government, more power for state and local governments, more individual freedom, following the laws and free markets. It seems like they are not too far off from each other in many ways.

It seems like todays conservatives are more neocon's because they think the main way to stimulate the economy is to cut taxes, the don't seem to care how big or intrusive the government gets, they want us to have a global influence and they want to push their moral values on society.

[kane]

Originally Posted by D

Oddly enough, about the same time that Fox "News" developed.

The other day a friend of mine and I were talking about the presidential election. He is a republican and a conservative and I asked him why he hated Obama and he said, "he is a liberal." I said, "How?" He said, "He will raise my taxes." I said, "He claims he is going to cut taxes for all but the top 2%, he may not do that, but that is what he claims. How do you know he will raise your taxes?" He replies, "because he is a liberal." I ask him to show me some of these evil liberal things he has done and he had no reply. I then joked that the one thing the republican party had done brilliantly is turn the word liberal into a slam.

Liberal is the new hahahahahaha.

He just shrugged and said he may not even vote this election because he doesn't like McCain either.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Ill agree with you if you are using that definition of liberalism. And that is exactly why it has become a dirty word. The powers to be, both dem and rep want bigger government and that means less power in the peoples hands.

[spanky part 2]

Our founding fathers were all liberals in their day.

They fought against the establishment, and thank god they did.

These days they would be called unpatriotic by the republicans.

[notoldschool]

The problem is the low intelligence level in this country makes our citizens easy to control with media. Think about why our school systems suck and we are even behind even some third world coutries in teaching our young.

Ever wonder why they dont teach American students about the stock market at anytime during their education? 9.75 out of 10 high school graduates have no clue what makes the stock market go up or down, and thats what we base our economy on. laughable.

[theking]

Originally Posted by kane

I was watching Fox News last night and they had on people that support each of the final three candidates for president. So the McCain guy says that McCain would not try to convince the people that Obama is something he is not, but that he would call him a liberal.

When they asked the Obama supporter if he would run as a liberal he wouldn't answer. When asked if he was a liberal he wouldn't answer. It suddenly seems like being a liberal is a horrible thing.

I consider myself an independent. I am more conservative on economic ideas (old school conservative where you spend wisely and balance the budget, not modern conservative where you spend everything then go into debt and spend some more), but I am pretty liberal socially. I think gay people should be allowed to get married, pot should be legal (even though I wouldn't smoke it more than maybe once a year) and the government should have no control over what people watch, listen to or read.

I understand that some people seem to think being liberal means you will raise taxes and give it all away to people on welfare, but that is not the case, some of the largest welfare reform came while we had a democrat in the white house.

So I wonder when did the word liberal become a dirty word? I would think if a person said, "I am a liberal and this is what I stand for." And laid out their agenda, people would see it is not, traditionally, that different from old school conservatism in many aspects.

When liberalism began to do away with traditional values...and basically began to mean that anything goes. The South for example used to be overwhelmingly Democrat and now it is overwhelmingly Republican...because as many of them say...I did not leave the Democrat party the Democrat party left me.

My political stance is that of a moderate (middle of the road) with moderate liberal leanings. I have zero use for the far left (ultra liberals) and zero use for the far right (ultra conservatives).

[TSGlider]

I recall it happening around the time Dukakis was running against Bush in '88.

[tony286]

Let me tell you why its a dirty word.When the neocons started doing talk radio,they needed a us against them theme to gather audience share. The word liberal became the word they used. It was like it's us against them and this made people think liberals were less American and they started to vote against their own interests. Like when I hear someone making 40K talking about they are going to raise my taxes and they think the bush tax cut was meant for them. I want to laugh in their faces.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by theking

When liberalism began to do away with traditional values...and basically began to mean that anything goes. The South for example used to be overwhelmingly Democrat and now it is overwhelmingly Republican...because as many of them say...I did not leave the Democrat party the Democrat party left me.

Traditional values like slavery, segregation, and not allowing women to vote? Or the traditional values of allowing husbands to beat their wives? Please do tell what you mean by "traditional values".

[kane]

Originally Posted by tony404

Let me tell you why its a dirty word.When the neocons started doing talk radio,they needed a us against them theme to gather audience share. The word liberal became the word they used. It was like it's us against them and this made people think liberals were less American and they started to vote against their own interests. Like when I hear someone making 40K talking about they are going to raise my taxes and they think the bush tax cut was meant for them. I want to laugh in their faces.

My buddy is that guy. He was going off about having is taxes raised. I told him, "You realize you don't make enough money to really get much of the bush tax cut right?" He disagreed. He makes pretty good money and has a good job and has made about the same every year for the last 10 years. We pulled out his tax returns from before the bush tax cut and those from after. It looks like this massive tax cut he is afraid of losing amounts to around $400 a year. I'm not saying $400 is nothing, it is a good amount of money, but when it represents about .7% of your income it is not that big of amount.

[kane]

Originally Posted by theking

When liberalism began to do away with traditional values...and basically began to mean that anything goes. The South for example used to be overwhelmingly Democrat and now it is overwhelmingly Republican...because as many of them say...I did not leave the Democrat party the Democrat party left me.

My political stance is that of a moderate (middle of the road) with moderate liberal leanings. I have zero use for the far left (ultra liberals) and zero use for the far right (ultra conservatives).

I think one of the reasons for the switch is that the republicans became the party of god and guns. Many people in the south are in the bible belt and they are hardcore Christians and they only thing they love more then god is bombing other countries and shooting guns.

They convinced the southerners that the democrats would take their guns, destroy the military, shut down the church and turn their kids gay.

[theking]

Originally Posted by tony404

Let me tell you why its a dirty word.When the neocons started doing talk radio,they needed a us against them theme to gather audience share. The word liberal became the word they used. It was like it's us against them and this made people think liberals were less American and they started to vote against their own interests. Like when I hear someone making 40K talking about they are going to raise my taxes and they think the bush tax cut was meant for them. I want to laugh in their faces.

It became a dirty word when more and more ultra liberals (anything goes) began taking more and more control of the Democrat party. It used to be that the Democrat party was more in favor of social programs and the working man and the Republicans did not favor social programs as much and was for business over the working man. Also the Democrats were less inclined to spend heavily on defense than the Republicans. Their values were basically the same otherwise but as the ultral liberals (anything goes) began to take more and more control of the Democrat party and withdrew from more and more traditional values that is when Liberal became a dirty word and turned the South from a Democrat stronghold to a Republican stronghold. I tend to think of Liberal since it is now associated with ultra liberal as being a dirty word...even though I have moderate liberal leanings.

[theking]

Originally Posted by kane

I think one of the reasons for the switch is that the republicans became the party of god and guns. Many people in the south are in the bible belt and they are hardcore Christians and they only thing they love more then god is bombing other countries and shooting guns.

They convinced the southerners that the democrats would take their guns, destroy the military, shut down the church and turn their kids gay.

It was not the Republicans that caused the switch as both parties had basically the same traditional values. It was the movement of ultra liberals (anything goes) into the Democrat party which do not have the same traditional values as the old Democrat liberals and the Republcans had...so as the ultra liberals took greater and greater control of the Democrat party the Democrats (who were always known as the more Liberal party) began to switch over to the Republican party. The Democrats of old were equally the party of "god and guns".

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by theking

It was not the Republicans that caused the switch as both parties had basically the same traditional values. It was the movement of ultra liberals (anything goes) into the Democrat party which do not have the same traditional values as the old Democrat liberals and the Republcans had...so as the ultra liberals took greater and greater control of the Democrat party the Democrats (who were always known as the more Liberal party) began to switch over to the Republican party. The Democrats of old were equally the party of "god and guns".

Please tell me what "traditional values" have been lost? You keep saying "anything goes" but I've yet to hear what that "anything" is. Do you mean freedom for blacks, voting for women, free speech type anything goes or something else that I'm missing?

[theking]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Please tell me what "traditional values" have been lost? You keep saying "anything goes" but I've yet to hear what that "anything" is. Do you mean freedom for blacks, voting for women, free speech type anything goes or something else that I'm missing?

If you do not know what ultral liberals push and the difference between them and liberals...and if you do not know what the difference is between conservatives and ultra conservatives and if you do not know what traditional values were held by the Democrats of fifty years ago and what traditional values of Republicans were held fifty years ago and what values both parties hold today...you do not know much...sport...and I do not care to take the time nor do I have the inclination to educate you.

I personally believe that you do know and just want to play...well sport...find another playmate.

[kane]

Originally Posted by theking

If you do not know what ultral liberals push and the difference between them and liberals...and if you do not know what the difference is between conservatives and ultra conservatives and if you do not know what traditional values were held by the Democrats of fifty years ago and what traditional values of Republicans were held fifty years ago and what values both parties hold today...you do not know much...sport...and I do not care to take the time nor do I have the inclination to educate you.

I personally believe that you do know and just want to play...well sport...find another playmate.

I think he was looking for some examples of when the "anything goes" types started taking over. what did they do that started giving the dems a bad name among the southerners?

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by theking

If you do not know what ultral liberals push and the difference between them and liberals...and if you do not know what the difference is between conservatives and ultra conservatives and if you do not know what traditional values were held by the Democrats of fifty years ago and what traditional values of Republicans were held fifty years ago and what values both parties hold today...you do not know much...sport...and I do not care to take the time nor do I have the inclination to educate you.

I personally believe that you do know and just want to play...well sport...find another playmate.

I'm being serious and not trying to play any game. I really don't know what "traditional value" liberals have taken away from society. I've heard the talking point before about how liberals are destroying our values, but I've never heard what values they are destroying.

I'm not a liberal or conservative, pretty much down the middle. If they are doing something that is hurting our country, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise it seems like a talking point with no substance behind it.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kane

I think he was looking for some examples of when the "anything goes" types started taking over. what did they do that started giving the dems a bad name among the southerners?

Exactly. He said they had an "anything goes" attitude and I'd like to know what that means. I'm only 28 years old so I can't really compare how I grew up to a previous generation.

[Mutt]

the connotation given to the tag 'liberal' is a political boat anchor now - score one for the right. you've seen those campaign ads where they play the sinister music and the deep voiced voice guy warns 'Bill Douglas voted for the law that let 900 child molestesr free to roam your neighborhoods. Bill Thomas is a liberal' Perception is reality - they indeed have made the word 'liberal' a dirty word, it means you're soft on crime, pro-deviant behaviour, anti-business, pro taxes, pro welfare for lazy minorities etc etc . The public are morons. There's good reason candidates in the center and to the left tiptoe around the word these days.

[Mutt]

'anything goes' means blacks drinking out of the same water fountain as whites, gays in the military, seperation of Church and State, dogs and cats living together ..........

[theking]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Exactly. He said they had an "anything goes" attitude and I'd like to know what that means. I'm only 28 years old so I can't really compare how I grew up to a previous generation.

As I stated...the South used to be a stronghold for Democrats (Democrats were the overwhelming majority nationally now the gap is not very large)...they were very religious...had strong family values...strong ties to traditional holidays...were gun loving...and very patriotic...my country right or wrong types.

Ultra liberalism began its movement in the '60's...reduced sexual inhibitions...increased use of drugs...hippies...yippies...peaceniks...tree huggers...etc. Disrespect for religion...disrespect of marriage...disrespect of family...disrespect of government...disrespect for virtually everything considered to be establishment...including patriotism...traditional holidays...etc. Ultra liberals began to push the gays agenda...love not guns...legalized drugs...etc.

As I stated before some Democrats (liberals of the time) now say they did not leave the Democrat party...the party left them...thus the closing gap between the number of Democrats and Republicans today and because of ultra liberals becoming more and more in control of the Democrat party liberal over the years has become a dirty word amongst Democrats of old and Republicans.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by theking

Ultra liberalism began its movement in the '60's...reduced sexual inhibitions...increased use of drugs...hippies...yippies...peaceniks...tree huggers...etc. Disrespect for religion...disrespect of marriage...disrespect of family...disrespect of government...disrespect for virtually everything considered to be establishment...including patriotism...traditional holidays...etc. Ultra liberals began to push the gays agenda...love not guns...legalized drugs...etc.

I don't think any of the "values" you stated have changed. Maybe people are more vocal about it which makes conservatives uncomfortable, but they were still happening.

Reduced Sexual Inhibitions - Sex was more prominent in the earlier part of our country's history. Sex workers ruled the streets and it was a huge business. Brothels were legal and commonplace in many communities. Slave owners routinely raped their slaves with no consequences. There were little to no age restrictions on sex or marriage and you'd often have 12 year old girls thrust into marriages with older men. If those are the "traditional values" that we've lost, I'm glad. Over the past decades, we've seen sex education in schools rise, contraceptives become prominent (they used to be illegal in "traditional" times), and age of consent laws raised. Prostitution is illegal just about everywhere as well as having sex with underage girls/boys. I don't see how our country has gone backwards in regards to sex.

Drugs - I don't think it has changed much. Opium based drugs have always been prominent in US culture. Maybe it is considered more accepted, but there has always been an element in society. Lets also not forget that it was a "conservative administration" that helped spread crack throughout the country (read up on Iran-Contra). I also don't get how conservatives are the ones boasting about freedom all the time yet are so concerned about giving the freedom to a person to do what he wants with his own body.

Marriage - If you're trying to point out higher divorce rates, you have to look at how a "traditional marriage" worked. Women weren't even allowed to have credit in a marriage until the 70's, they weren't allowed to vote a little farther back and property was impossible to come by. They were also given little to no rights in court and would be left without their children and any income after divorce. Men could beat and rape their wives with no consequences. Women couldn't use contraceptives till the 70's (yes it was illegal), and also against the law for interracial marriages to exist. You weren't allowed to file for a divorce unless you could prove that your husband/wife commited a sin or crime. I actually think marriage has come a long way from the "traditional" times.

Disrespect of Religion - I don't think this is disrespect, it's just a factor of less and less people being religious. Those with religious affiliation is dropping at staggering rates as people become educated on science, evolution, etc. I think it's ignorant to say the country is worse because people don't believe in Jesus. Many people want a separation between Church and State so that their kids aren't taught bullshit like Creationism in school.

Gay agenda - I don't really get what this "agenda" is. Is it to be treated like every other human being in this country? To get the same rights others have? The only thing I've noticed over the years are that gay people are more comfortable with being open about their sexuality. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

I am just having a hard time seeing how any of these issues have really changed much. Maybe they are talked about more openly, but they've always been apart of this country. Things like marriage and sex have come a long way over the years in my opinion.

I don't know what kind of "traditional values" you feel are missing. These "ultra-liberals" ended slavery, segregation, and sedition acts. They gave rights of voting and property ownership to blacks and women. It seems to me that "traditional values" would be having white men control every aspect of the country. I think this country has come a long way over the years. We have equal rights for all genders, races, and social classes. If that is what is considered an "ultra-liberal" idea, I guess I'm in that boat.

[Porn Farmer]

Traditional Values

Discriminate against other races
Discriminate against gays
Discriminate against women
Discriminate against other nationalities
Encourage mindless nationalism and blind faith in religion

[12clicks]

for me it was when liberals started to decide how much a succesfull person should be happy with and when they decided they knew best on who should recieved a tax cut.
you see, evenwhen I was poor I knew that you should not punish success and I resented the liberals thinking I was dumb enough to buy into their "evil rich" mantra.
Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is not right just because we can get the uneducated rabble to vote for it.

[Anonymous_Producer]

I believe those are traditional "GOP" values they are

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Traditional Values

Discriminate against other races
Discriminate against gays
Discriminate against women
Discriminate against other nationalities
Encourage mindless nationalism and blind faith in religion

[Tat2Jr]

Originally Posted by kane

I consider myself an independent. I am more conservative on economic ideas (old school conservative where you spend wisely and balance the budget, not modern conservative where you spend everything then go into debt and spend some more), but I am pretty liberal socially. I think gay people should be allowed to get married, pot should be legal (even though I wouldn't smoke it more than maybe once a year) and the government should have no control over what people watch, listen to or read.

You are not an independent. You are a libertarian, and there isn't anything wrong with that! Don't hide behind the lame independent label.
http://www.lp.org/

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Perception is reality - they indeed have made the word 'liberal' a dirty word, it means you're soft on crime, pro-deviant behaviour, anti-business, pro taxes, pro welfare for lazy minorities etc

No, actually reality is percieved for what it is and your description avpcebis pretty accurate of the liberal politition

[tony286]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

No, actually reality is percieved for what it is and your description avpcebis pretty accurate of the liberal politition

No its not the liberal position, you are very smart no way you believe that bullshit. pro-deviant behaviour? I think the right has a very firm grasp on that from chatting about sexual things with underage pages to playing footsie in the mens room. lol
Also 93 world trade center the guy who masterminded was caught and is rotting in jail. 911 bin laden is free and your boy W said wanted dead or alive.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

for me it was when liberals started to decide how much a succesfull person should be happy with and when they decided they knew best on who should recieved a tax cut.
you see, evenwhen I was poor I knew that you should not punish success and I resented the liberals thinking I was dumb enough to buy into their "evil rich" mantra.
Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is not right just because we can get the uneducated rabble to vote for it.

I agree with that. I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal. I'm against many of the liberal policies that reach out to re-distribute the wealth.

But when theKing talks about "traditional values" and taxes, he's wrong. "Traditional taxes" were at nearly 94% for the wealthiest people and well above what we pay now. Nixon is the one that signed in the Alternative Minimum Tax, while both Nixon and Ford raised taxes on Capital Gains. While conservatives have a better stance on taxes now, their history is not strong on this issue.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

for me it was when liberals started to decide how much a succesfull person should be happy with and when they decided they knew best on who should recieved a tax cut.
you see, evenwhen I was poor I knew that you should not punish success and I resented the liberals thinking I was dumb enough to buy into their "evil rich" mantra.
Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is not right just because we can get the uneducated rabble to vote for it.

You always talk about how rich and well off you are. It makes me laugh, as well off people don't have to talk about it.

Admit it you are just one of those guys who wants to play rich and think if you say you are a republican people will think you are.

If you look at the demographics, democrats on the whole are more educated and well off than republicans. Sorry to break the news to you, but you are on the redneck poor side of things.

[theking]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I don't think any of the "values" you stated have changed. Maybe people are more vocal about it which makes conservatives uncomfortable, but they were still happening.

Reduced Sexual Inhibitions - Sex was more prominent in the earlier part of our country's history. Sex workers ruled the streets and it was a huge business. Brothels were legal and commonplace in many communities. Slave owners routinely raped their slaves with no consequences. There were little to no age restrictions on sex or marriage and you'd often have 12 year old girls thrust into marriages with older men. If those are the "traditional values" that we've lost, I'm glad. Over the past decades, we've seen sex education in schools rise, contraceptives become prominent (they used to be illegal in "traditional" times), and age of consent laws raised. Prostitution is illegal just about everywhere as well as having sex with underage girls/boys. I don't see how our country has gone backwards in regards to sex.

Drugs - I don't think it has changed much. Opium based drugs have always been prominent in US culture. Maybe it is considered more accepted, but there has always been an element in society. Lets also not forget that it was a "conservative administration" that helped spread crack throughout the country (read up on Iran-Contra). I also don't get how conservatives are the ones boasting about freedom all the time yet are so concerned about giving the freedom to a person to do what he wants with his own body.

Marriage - If you're trying to point out higher divorce rates, you have to look at how a "traditional marriage" worked. Women weren't even allowed to have credit in a marriage until the 70's, they weren't allowed to vote a little farther back and property was impossible to come by. They were also given little to no rights in court and would be left without their children and any income after divorce. Men could beat and rape their wives with no consequences. Women couldn't use contraceptives till the 70's (yes it was illegal), and also against the law for interracial marriages to exist. You weren't allowed to file for a divorce unless you could prove that your husband/wife commited a sin or crime. I actually think marriage has come a long way from the "traditional" times.

Disrespect of Religion - I don't think this is disrespect, it's just a factor of less and less people being religious. Those with religious affiliation is dropping at staggering rates as people become educated on science, evolution, etc. I think it's ignorant to say the country is worse because people don't believe in Jesus. Many people want a separation between Church and State so that their kids aren't taught bullshit like Creationism in school.

Gay agenda - I don't really get what this "agenda" is. Is it to be treated like every other human being in this country? To get the same rights others have? The only thing I've noticed over the years are that gay people are more comfortable with being open about their sexuality. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

I am just having a hard time seeing how any of these issues have really changed much. Maybe they are talked about more openly, but they've always been apart of this country. Things like marriage and sex have come a long way over the years in my opinion.

I don't know what kind of "traditional values" you feel are missing. These "ultra-liberals" ended slavery, segregation, and sedition acts. They gave rights of voting and property ownership to blacks and women. It seems to me that "traditional values" would be having white men control every aspect of the country. I think this country has come a long way over the years. We have equal rights for all genders, races, and social classes. If that is what is considered an "ultra-liberal" idea, I guess I'm in that boat.

I explained to you why the number of Republicans are closing the gap between it and the number of Democrats (Liberals of the past) and why the South is no longer a Democrat stonghold...and why Liberal is now considered to be a dirty word by Democrats of old and Republicans...but as I stated you just wanted to play games. Ultra liberals did not exist until around fifty years ago.

[nation-x]

I post on perspectives.com and for the most part I identify with "liberals". Reading the republican only board is a lesson in bigotry.

[Dirty Dane]

I'm dirty and liberal

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

You always talk about how rich and well off you are. It makes me laugh, as well off people don't have to talk about it.

Admit it you are just one of those guys who wants to play rich and think if you say you are a republican people will think you are.

If you look at the demographics, democrats on the whole are more educated and well off than republicans. Sorry to break the news to you, but you are on the redneck poor side of things.

Wow, what a shocking display of a failed education.
don't hate me for paying taxes, hate yourself for failing

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Wow, what a shocking display of a failed education.
don't hate me for paying taxes, hate yourself for failing

I'm sure you do pay your taxes. McDonalds normally take it out for you.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

I'm sure you do pay your taxes. McDonalds normally take it out for you.

haha, get your posts on now, chump. Monday and the sad reality of your real life are only hours away. :

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

haha, get your posts on now, chump. Monday and the sad reality of your real life are only hours away. :

Ya, my life on monday sucks. Going into my photo studio, and telling my employees what I want done this week. Shooting on location in the desert on tuesday, so monday does kinda suck in comparison. BTW I don't shoot porn either, doesn't pay enough, just models with their clothes on. How many employees do you have again???????

Then take my son to his basketball game on weds. Probably drop my kids with the parents on friday and then take my wife out for a night on the town. Lemme guess, you have to clean up your basement apt in your parents house on friday, cuz mommy won't let you go out until your room is cleaned

Yep my life sucks. I wish I was rich like you with your huge 12clicks porn empire. Who are you again? Oh yeah, everyone knows you on gfy as 12 clicks. You are a superstar dude, and my hero.

[dav3]

labels are retarded

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Ya, my life on monday sucks. Going into my photo studio, and telling my employees what I want done this week. Shooting on location in the desert on tuesday, so monday does kinda suck in comparison. BTW I don't shoot porn either, doesn't pay enough, just models with their clothes on. How many employees do you have again???????

Then take my son to his basketball game on weds. Probably drop my kids with the parents on friday and then take my wife out for a night on the town. Lemme guess, you have to clean up your basement apt in your parents house on friday, cuz mommy won't let you go out until your room is cleaned

Yep my life sucks. I wish I was rich like you with your huge 12clicks porn empire. Who are you again? Oh yeah, everyone knows you on gfy as 12 clicks. You are a superstar dude, and my hero.

Tell us any fantasy you'd like us to believe. Middle aged picture takers always *did* have a chip on their. Its cute to watch.

[tiger]

I have noticed that too. It has been going on for quite a while.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Tell us any fantasy you'd like us to believe. Middle aged picture takers always *did* have a chip on their. Its cute to watch.

Lmao picture takers. Just shows what you know. Keep building your avs and tgp sites dude. 12clicks that must mean something......the amount of se traffic you get a day?

You still didn't answer how many employees you have. Mom and dad and your cat don't count. Me I have 5 -2 studio managers,2 photographers, and one assistant. Not sure if you count my 2 agents as employees. Probably not, as they rep other photographers too.

[D Ghost]

o BOY! you're mentally ill

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Lmao picture takers. Just shows what you know. Keep building your avs and tgp sites dude. 12clicks that must mean something......the amount of se traffic you get a day?

You still didn't answer how many employees you have. Mom and dad and your cat don't count. Me I have 5 -2 studio managers,2 photographers, and one assistant. Not sure if you count my 2 agents as employees. Probably not, as they rep other photographers too.

son, perhaps if spanky part 1 wasn't a failure in our biz, you'd have a clue about who I am. Sadly, you're just a misguided failed picture taker who, while crying sour grapes about porn, can't seem to just go away.
now you run along and take your pictures.

[ADL Colin]

It shows effective branding/positioning on the part of conservatives. Nixon used it somewhat effectively to label his opponents. Bush I hammered Dukakis with it. Rush Limbaugh really helped to popularize it with a large conservative audience in the early 90s.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

son, perhaps if spanky part 1 wasn't a failure in our biz, you'd have a clue about who I am. Sadly, you're just a misguided failed picture taker who, while crying sour grapes about porn, can't seem to just go away.
now you run along and take your pictures.

Yep failure. You got it dreamer. Keep building your tgp2 sites, while the smart ones made their money and are out. Keep dreaming with your shitty little 12click banner on gfy. Self portrait? Gay dreams you have every night? I've seen pics of you with your Vanilla Ice look. You might wanna hire out for some graphics next time. If you need help finding someone give a shout.

Off to take my shitty pictures, actually I'm not shooting today my employees are.


Have a great day wondering how to make money even though those bad tube sites are stealing your 12 clicks of traffic. Did you know that pic sites don't sell very well anymore? That's my tip of the day for you.

[The Demon]

Classical Liberalism is what this country was founded on, and it is NOT modern liberalism, but more modern conservatism. Liberal is more in common with "hippie" than Patriot.