The Secret and Belief in Astrology

[ADL Colin]

Just curious ...

[Dirty F]

It's really simple. If you believe in astrology you aren't one of the brightest.

[Juicy D. Links]

i am a taurus , i am a bull

[Scott McD]

It's all BS !!

[Dirty F]

From a thread i made a while back:

I bet 75% or more people believe in zodiac signs crap. Some more than others. A good bunch reads that shit everyday in magazines for weak minded people.

Now that alone should make you feel really stupid already but it gets even better:

(Skip this part if you are mentally challenged and read the bottom)
The Earth's rotation on its axis has caused the Earth's shape to diverge from a sphere, and has caused the Earth's equatorial regions to bulge out, in the same way that a skater's skirt spreads outward as she spins rapidly on the ice. Because the Earth's equator is tilted with respect to the orbital plane of the Earth around the Sun, the so-called Ecliptic plane, the Earth's equatorial bulge is also tilted with respect of the plane along which the Sun and Moon travel. The Moon and the Sun exert a gravitational "tug" on the Earth's equatorial bulge, trying to pull the Earth's equatorial region to be aligned with the Ecliptic plane. This tug, along with the rotational motion of the Earth on its axis, the revolution of the Earth around the Sun, and the revolution of the Moon about the Earth, cause the Earth to wobble about its axis of rotation, similar to the motion of a spinning top. This motion is called Precession. An extension of the Earth's axis out into space traces out a conical figure with a time cycle or period of 26,000 years. Figure 3 below shows a schematic of the Earth's precession. The Earth's precession implies that although Polaris is currently the star above our North pole, in about 13,000 years Vega will become our North star; only, after yet another 13,000 years, will our North pole will once again point towards Polaris.

= basically saying that your zodiac sign is NOT your zodiac sign. They all moved one over time because of the earth changing positions as explained above.

So you think you are a libra? Well you're not. So all that shit you read daily about libra's in your stupid little magazine doesn't apply to you but you always thought it did. All your actions you try to justify by saying "i'm a libra" is bullshit. The real dumb people even only date with someone who fits their sign...well again, it's bullshit because you are not the sign you think you are and neither is the person you date.

Now this really should make you feel stupid as fuck. But ofcourse as most people do, you will ignore it and read that shit again tomorrow.

Congrats idiots

[D]

Astrology = man's early attempt at understanding the heavens, and gave the farmers something to recollect a change in the seasons by. The entire area of study is based on the illusions generated in the sky by our position in the galaxy.

That said, I do believe that the power of suggestion is exceptionally strong as it affects the human mind. Probably why astrology and things like "The Secret" are so successful. If we tell ourselves something will happen, and believe in it, the chances of that thing happening (especially if we had control over that something happening to begin with) have gone up at least exponentially.

[D]

So I can't state simply whether I believe or I don't believe... because that'd be an oversimplification.

I might not believe in the tenets of astrology, but I do believe in it's psychological powers. The Secret, on the other hand, seems to explicitly state that it's a mind-over-matter kind of thing... so maybe I can safely say I believe in it... even if I don't believe it to be the most effecient way to go about accomplishing things.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by D

at least exponentially.

hmmmmmmmmmm

[Stephen McTowelie]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

From a thread i made a while back:

I bet 75% or more people believe in zodiac signs crap. Some more than others. A good bunch reads that shit everyday in magazines for weak minded people.

Now that alone should make you feel really stupid already but it gets even better:

(Skip this part if you are mentally challenged and read the bottom)
The Earth's rotation on its axis has caused the Earth's shape to diverge from a sphere, and has caused the Earth's equatorial regions to bulge out, in the same way that a skater's skirt spreads outward as she spins rapidly on the ice. Because the Earth's equator is tilted with respect to the orbital plane of the Earth around the Sun, the so-called Ecliptic plane, the Earth's equatorial bulge is also tilted with respect of the plane along which the Sun and Moon travel. The Moon and the Sun exert a gravitational "tug" on the Earth's equatorial bulge, trying to pull the Earth's equatorial region to be aligned with the Ecliptic plane. This tug, along with the rotational motion of the Earth on its axis, the revolution of the Earth around the Sun, and the revolution of the Moon about the Earth, cause the Earth to wobble about its axis of rotation, similar to the motion of a spinning top. This motion is called Precession. An extension of the Earth's axis out into space traces out a conical figure with a time cycle or period of 26,000 years. Figure 3 below shows a schematic of the Earth's precession. The Earth's precession implies that although Polaris is currently the star above our North pole, in about 13,000 years Vega will become our North star; only, after yet another 13,000 years, will our North pole will once again point towards Polaris.

= basically saying that your zodiac sign is NOT your zodiac sign. They all moved one over time because of the earth changing positions as explained above.

So you think you are a libra? Well you're not. So all that shit you read daily about libra's in your stupid little magazine doesn't apply to you but you always thought it did. All your actions you try to justify by saying "i'm a libra" is bullshit. The real dumb people even only date with someone who fits their sign...well again, it's bullshit because you are not the sign you think you are and neither is the person you date.

Now this really should make you feel stupid as fuck. But ofcourse as most people do, you will ignore it and read that shit again tomorrow.

Congrats idiots

This is what i tell been telling people (mostly girls ) for ages but they'll never listen you guys should know this already didn't your evangelicals invent creationism lol

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by Stephen McTowelie

This is what i tell been telling people (mostly girls ) for ages but they'll never listen you guys should know this already didn't your evangelicals invent creationism lol

They will just ignore it, just like (mostly women) who read this thread. They dont care and they dont want to know.

[Trixie]

I don't believe either of them are true and of course they're laughable from a rational perspective BUT they do "work" if they make people more reflective and feel empowered. It's fun to suspend disbelief and pretend, especially if it makes you happier.

[Hell House Vic]

eastern astology, particularly vedic sidereal astrology - lunar based, is fascinating. people who think it's "magic" just haven't really been exposed to it. It's all math.

Saying that the unknown is "laughable from a rational perspective" shows a huge ego and dogmatic version of rationality. After all, at the base of the scienific method is an acceptance that we can never know for sure about anything. Science propaganda is a new religion that is not scientific at all, and completely discards this basic truth - which allows people to conclusively dismiss what they don't understand - an EXTREMELY unscientific approach to life.

[BoyAlley]

People who believe in astrology are almost as stupid as people that believe in Jesus.

[ADL Colin]

Small poll but interesting so far

[Hell House Vic]

Originally Posted by Stephen McTowelie

This is what i tell been telling people (mostly girls ) for ages but they'll never listen you guys should know this already didn't your evangelicals invent creationism lol

just because most people have a limited and superficial nderstanding of astrology doesn't mean astrology itself is limited and superfiscial. most people have a limited, and superfiscial understanding of physics, right?

first of all 13,000 years is a long time. safe to say she'll be a libra till she dies.

secondly, what you are dealing with is simply a mathematical calculation of the orbits of the moon, sun and planets based on your latitude and longitude and time of birth - from which the location of those planets can be foreknown at anypoint in the future - over long periods of history, these planets have been observed to have psychological effects upon human beings... extrapolating this, if you know the location of the planets at a future date (which you can by math and astronomy) then you can estimate the psychological influences upon that person at that future date.

if you are apt to laugh at moon, sun, and planets exterting a psychological effect - remember that you are already saying that the same sun moon and planets is going to have such an effect on the planet that it's going to twist it all around and change it's polestar. and remember menstrual cycles.

for god sake, remember menstrual cycles! and tides.. etc.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

i am a taurus , i am a bull

actually none of us are actually our signs anymore....the heavens have shifted/moved enough since the creation of the zodiac chart

also there were originally 13 on the chart

interesting shit i pick up watching documentaries all day while i work

p.s. the secret is as real as you think it is......astrology would also be as real as you think it is (power wise) i suppose

[pr0]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

People who believe in astrology are almost as stupid as people that believe in Jesus.

I think its pretty obvious historically that jesus in fact existed. I think the stupid ones are the ones who fell for the whole "son of god" thing

[MattO]

When someone who's into Astrology asks you what sign you are, tell them the wrong one.

Guaranteed they'll tell how they knew that was your sign and they'll go on about all the qualities you have that follow the sign you told them you were.

When people ask my sign I say I'm a Feces with Uranus rising. Because it's all shit.

[pr0]

if you're into astrology & shit, check out episodes of "the universe"

http://www.eztv.it/frontpage.php


booyah......

ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiip peace, im out

[needlive]

Maybe the things you read do not apply to you but I have to say that many times similar things have happened to me.

Call me stupid but I think is a nice thing.

Btw "the secret" is hidden goal or ...?

[fusionx]

What's the deal with "The Secret"? I watched that trailer but never really understood what "The Secret" is supposed to be...

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

The Earth's rotation on its axis has caused the Earth's shape to diverge from a sphere, and has caused the Earth's equatorial regions to bulge out, in the same way that a skater's skirt spreads outward as she spins rapidly on the ice. Because the Earth's equator is tilted with respect to the orbital plane of the Earth around the Sun, the so-called Ecliptic plane, the Earth's equatorial bulge is also tilted with respect of the plane along which the Sun and Moon travel. The Moon and the Sun exert a gravitational "tug" on the Earth's equatorial bulge, trying to pull the Earth's equatorial region to be aligned with the Ecliptic plane. This tug, along with the rotational motion of the Earth on its axis, the revolution of the Earth around the Sun, and the revolution of the Moon about the Earth, cause the Earth to wobble about its axis of rotation, similar to the motion of a spinning top. This motion is called Precession. An extension of the Earth's axis out into space traces out a conical figure with a time cycle or period of 26,000 years. Figure 3 below shows a schematic of the Earth's precession. The Earth's precession implies that although Polaris is currently the star above our North pole, in about 13,000 years Vega will become our North star; only, after yet another 13,000 years, will our North pole will once again point towards Polaris.

= basically saying that your zodiac sign is NOT your zodiac sign. They all moved one over time because of the earth changing positions as explained above.

wow, did you really type all that by yourself? or did you copy/paste it from somewhere else?

LAWDS MERCY!
I agree with Ze Boy Alley

[CaptainHowdy]

I don't know which of both is worse... On the bright side, astrology can get you laid.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

wow, did you really type all that by yourself? or did you copy/paste it from somewhere else?

Thats a copy and paste. My english isnt good enough to type something like that.

[$5 submissions]

I used to read tarot cards a while back. A lot of it can be explained by two belief systems 1) everything happens for a reason 2) all people/all situations fall into 'archetypes'. The 'random' spread of the cards is explained by 1) and the meaning of the cards is explained by 2). It's 99% psychology. I never thought there's any 'magic' to it. I've predicted guys getting married 6 to 9 months before they even met the person they eventually married. I've predicted some awful things that came to pass too.

I've since left all that stuff behind and no longer believe in it. The power of the human mind and collective mind is too awesome to fuck with. Just live your life one day at a time and enjoy your time here to the fullest.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I just want to be able to shoot lightening bolts out of my hands.

[DigitalDruid]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I just want to be able to shoot lightening bolts out of my hands.

Thats easy, Just use the force

[CurrentlySober]

i like poo

[xroach]

i'm agnostic about astrology but two things i find interesting are

you can see the effect of the moon's gravitational pull every low and high tide, humans are 60-80% water (depending on age, gender)

all life (energy) on the earth originated from the sun

[OMG Jim]

Originally Posted by Kick Ass Vic

.... over long periods of history, these planets have been observed to have psychological effects upon human beings... extrapolating this, if you know the location of the planets at a future date (which you can by math and astronomy) then you can estimate the psychological influences upon that person at that future date.

Interesting read Vic. Can you expound more on both the psychological effects and influences that the planets have on human beings?

Also do you think that these effects are in any way similar or related to the study of Biorhythms which many people believe are inherent cycles in humans which regulate memory, ambition, coordination, endurance, temperament, emotions, and much more?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[D]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

hmmmmmmmmmm

Was that a questioning "hmm" or a deep thought "hmm?"

[Jace]

the secret isn't anything special, it is common sense

if you are nice, you will have nice things happen

if you are an asshole, you won't get very far

there, now you don't have to watch the movie

[sexyclicks]

what about that 13th star/sign scientists discovered like a decade ago?
Like I mean it exists, it's there, it's not a joke, but the astrology freaks just keep ignoring it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by D

Was that a questioning "hmm" or a deep thought "hmm?"

The odds go up "at least exponentially"? Maybe you meant that figuratively.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by sexyclicks

what about that 13th star/sign scientists discovered like a decade ago?
Like I mean it exists, it's there, it's not a joke, but the astrology freaks just keep ignoring it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus

That's my sign, December 9th, and I always answer that just for kicks. Not discovered a decade ago. Described thousands of years ago. Also, you can't discover a constellation. You define it. They are just a grouping of stars that appear close together in our two dimensional view and happen to look like whatever it is the viewer thinks it looks like.

[D]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

The odds go up "at least exponentially"? Maybe you meant that figuratively.

Nope... what I said is what I meant.

Systems of equations can expand faster than "exponentially."

Faster than exponential growths include doubly exponential (e.g. y^(e^x)), etc. and hyperbolically (the fastest form of growth we currently conceive of, I believe - typically used when dealing with matters of infinity and positive-feedback systems, such as black holes and what-not).

I think if you tell yourself something that you can affect is going to happen - the chances of that occurrence actually happening when compared to the suggestion not being there are at least squared (increased exponentially) and at most a mathematical near-certainty (increased hyperbolically).

Hope that clears what I meant up for you.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by D

Nope... what I said is what I meant.

Systems of equations can expand faster than "exponentially."

Faster than exponential growths include doubly exponential (e.g. y^(e^x)), etc. and hyperbolically (the fastest form of growth we currently conceive of, I believe - typically used when dealing with matters of infinity and positive-feedback systems, such as black holes and what-not).

I think if you tell yourself something that you can affect is going to happen - the chances of that occurrence actually happening when compared to the suggestion not being there are at least squared (increased exponentially) and at most a mathematical near-certainty (increased hyperbolically).

Hope that clears what I meant up for you.

Yes I know they CAN. I have a degree in physics. just don't understand why you would make such a strong mathematical claim about something difficult to quantify. "Did he really think he was going to succeed or did he just say it would"?

Also. what do you mean by your example?
"I think if you tell yourself something that you can affect is going to happen - the chances of that occurrence actually happening when compared to the suggestion not being there are at least squared" So if there is a 50/50 chance of me hitting a free throw normally then you have .5/.5 = 1. You square that and still get 1.

But I think you mean the chances of the event NOT happening are squared. So a 50/50 free throw shooter has a 1/2 chance of missing. Square that and you get 1/4 which is the new chance of missing. So you could will yourself into being a 75% free throw shooter instead of 50%. I find that difficult to believe. There are NBA players who practice thousands and thousands of free throws for a decade and don't improve that much. Lack of envisioning their success?

And so a 50% free throw shooter can become 75% purely through willpower? And then a 75% free throw shooter could become a 94% shooter?

And this is the MINIMUM improvement one might make? They might approach
100% certainty of making a free throw if they believe they can?

It just ignores all kinds of limitations. How well do I have to envision my being able to dunk a basketball in order to actually do it? The only time I ever dunked a basketball I was sleeping.

[ADL Colin]

D, what kind of examples would you give to back up your claim?I find the idea interesting. BTW, I do believe you can improve your odds of success with belief. Just nowhere near the claims of the producers of "the secret" nor " at least exponentially"

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by Jace

the secret isn't anything special, it is common sense

if you are nice, you will have nice things happen

if you are an asshole, you won't get very far

WARNING: These rules have no bearing on success in online porn

[D]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Yes I know they CAN. I have a degree in physics. just don't understand why you would make such a strong mathematical claim about something difficult to quantify. "Did he really think he was going to succeed or did he just say it would"?

Also. what do you mean by your example?
"I think if you tell yourself something that you can affect is going to happen - the chances of that occurrence actually happening when compared to the suggestion not being there are at least squared" So if there is a 50/50 chance of me hitting a free throw normally then you have .5/.5 = 1. You square that and still get 1.

But I think you mean the chances of the event NOT happening are squared. So a 50/50 free throw shooter has a 1/2 chance of missing. Square that and you get 1/4 which is the new chance of missing. So you could will yourself into being a 75% free throw shooter instead of 50%. I find that difficult to believe. There are NBA players who practice thousands and thousands of free throws for a decade and don't improve that much. Lack of envisioning their success?

And so a 50% free throw shooter can become 75% purely through willpower? And then a 75% free throw shooter could become a 94% shooter?

And this is the MINIMUM improvement one might make? They might approach
100% certainty of making a free throw if they believe they can?

It just ignores all kinds of limitations. How well do I have to envision my being able to dunk a basketball in order to actually do it? The only time I ever dunked a basketball I was sleeping.

Forgot you were a physics guy.

On the math for a moment - I think I misused the concept of "chance"... I was speaking from the perspective of growth in achievement to a task over time, and not the actual probability from instance to instance... not really "figuratively" - but I can see now where you were coming from, and yeah - it's in the same ballpark.

Insofar as the psychological stuff - you're thinking much too acutely for my philosophy on the matter. You're thinking "a 50% free throw shooter can become 75%," and I'm thinking "a 50% free throw shooter can increase his percentage" (though maybe Shaq is the exception to that rule )

I don't, personally, follow the principals in "The Secret" or astrology, myself... but I do recognize that the power of suggestion - whether we harness the power ourselves (As "The Secret" seems to suggest), or we let it have a more passive effect on us in merely participating in another's belief (such as in Astrology... or - even more generally - most "religions," in my opinion)... and, in that sense, I believe in the power of both "The Secret" and astrology. That's the unifying thread between the two ideas. The raw power that I feel both principals feed on: Belief.

The impetus in any course of action we take is first the thought of committing that course of action. In the paradigm of not having that driving force - where then the driving force is introduced - the growth in the chance of success at completing that course of action is at least exponential.

And that's all I really meant.

Of course, there's no chance at success if one does not choose to actually "make it happen." Wishing won't make it so.

But belief is, in itself, an action... and has the power to both cause one's feet to move without noticing it, and to see things that might not completely exist.... and sometimes - that's all you need to complete some action.

[Mistah Charlie]

Dude, what is up with you today? How many threads did you start?! Suddenly have a lot of time on our hands? Tired of making money?

[ADL Colin]

D, I think maybe we're in close to the same place on it really - though you believe in a stronger version

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by Mistah Charlie

Dude, what is up with you today? How many threads did you start?! Suddenly have a lot of time on our hands? Tired of making money?

Sagittarius' post more at the end of February in leap years