Big Oil Tax Breaks

[spanky part 2]

Does big oil deserve tax breaks. President Bush and the republicans think so.

http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_...=ap-d8v2tung2&

Exxon-Mobil made the largest profit of any US company EVER last year. $42 billion. That's $1331 a second for all those keeping score.

Absolutely ridiculous that these fuckers get any tax breaks. They should be charged with war profiteering.

[pocketkangaroo]

They own the government so they can get what they want.

[spanky part 2]

We need to vote out everyone of the senators and reps that voted against this bill.

I am so sick of this shit in this country. You can't even buy a car that gets good gas mileage unless it is a hybrid. It's bullshit. We have gone backwards with fuel economy.

[D Ghost]

of course Bush and the republicans do, they are dumb fucks

[marketsmart]

i believe that congress either passed or has on the floor a bill to tax big oil an additional 18 billion... of course this will just get passed on to the pump...

[spanky part 2]

I'm sick of the media not covering this shit. Nothing on the news about it at all.

[Gouge]

Capitalism at its best

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by Gouge

Capitalism at its best

You are a fucking idiot. If it was capitalism they wouldn't have any tax breaks.

Go back to high school.

[tony286]

Isnt it interesting the GFY right wingers are very quiet in this thread.

[JakeR]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6313..._editors_picks

Conclusion: In other words, just one corporation (Exxon Mobil) pays as much in taxes ($27 billion) annually as the entire bottom 50% of individual taxpayers, which is 65,000,000 people! Further, the tax rate for the bottom 50% is only 3% of adjusted gross income ($27.4 billion / $922 billion), and the tax rate for Exxon was 41% in 2006 ($67.4 billion in taxable income, $27.9 billion in taxes).

[spanky part 2]

:::::::crickets:::::::::::

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by JakeR

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6313..._editors_picks

Gee a site about oil and gas companies (sponsored by oil and gas companies) saying that is saying an oil and gas company pays high taxes.

Another fucking brilliant post

[Kard63]

It was a tax increase.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by JakeR

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6313..._editors_picks

I agree with the arguments that the rich cover too much of the poor's taxes. But shouldn't these tax breaks be for everyone? Why does Exxon get a tax break but not other companies? Why is their business treated differently than mine? Shouldn't we all be on a level playing field?

[spanky part 2]

from the ceo

?The Corporation distributed a total of $35.6 billion to shareholders in 2007 through dividends and share purchases to reduce shares outstanding, up $3.0 billion from 2006.
?ExxonMobil?s fourth quarter earnings excluding special items were a record $11,660 million, up 18% from the fourth quarter of 2006. Higher crude oil and natural gas realizations and gains on asset sales were partly offset by lower chemical margins.?

[spunkmaster]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i believe that congress either passed or has on the floor a bill to tax big oil an additional 18 billion... of course this will just get passed on to the pump...

The idiots don't understand that any tax increase on oil companies is a tax on everyone who uses oil, gas and even plastics etc..

48% of all Americans own oil stock so it's a double whammy !

And for the record ExxonMobile had 10% profit but Starbucks had a 42% profit. The reason the numbers are so high is because they are the largest company in the world !

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I agree with the arguments that the rich cover too much of the poor's taxes. But shouldn't these tax breaks be for everyone? Why does Exxon get a tax break but not other companies? Why is their business treated differently than mine? Shouldn't we all be on a level playing field?

I don't care how much they are paying. They made $42 billion profit. That's not before taxes, that's profit. They don't deserve ANY tax breaks. We are getting fucked every day, and they don't give a shit. Doesn't matter that they have screwed up the economy beyond belief. It's all about making obscene profits at the expense of the country and the kids that are dead in Iraq to protect their interests.

The only reason the numbers on the economy have looked better in the past couple of years before this one, is because the Bush admin had a little * after the inflation numbers that said "excluding oil and gas."

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

The idiots don't understand that any tax increase on oil companies is a tax on everyone who uses oil, gas and even plastics etc..

48% of all Americans own oil stock so it's a double whammy !

And for the record ExxonMobile had 10% profit but Starbucks had a 42% profit. The reason the numbers are so high is because they are the largest company in the world !

Why have oil prices nearly doubled since they received massive tax breaks years ago? Using your philosophy, shouldn't gas prices have gone down?

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

The idiots don't understand that any tax increase on oil companies is a tax on everyone who uses oil, gas and even plastics etc..

48% of all Americans own oil stock so it's a double whammy !

And for the record ExxonMobile had 10% profit but Starbucks had a 42% profit. The reason the numbers are so high is because they are the largest company in the world !

Typical republican scare tactic. It's not a tax increase you idiot, it's taking away a tax break for exploration. When you are making the largest profit of any US company in the history of the US, you can pay for your own fucking exploration.

BTW I don't need starbucks to get to work and to go to the store. I don't give a fuck about the stock holders either.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

I don't care how much they are paying. They made $42 billion profit. That's not before taxes, that's profit. They don't deserve ANY tax breaks. We are getting fucked every day, and they don't give a shit. Doesn't matter that they have screwed up the economy beyond belief. It's all about making obscene profits at the expense of the country and the kids that are dead in Iraq to protect their interests.

The only reason the numbers on the economy have looked better in the past couple of years before this one, is because the Bush admin had a little * after the inflation numbers that said "excluding oil and gas."

"They" aren't a couple people sitting in a board room smoking cigars. "They" are hundreds of thousands of shareholders. If you have an IRA/401K, mutual fund, etc, you probably own a piece of Exxon.

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

You are a fucking idiot. If it was capitalism they wouldn't have any tax breaks.

Go back to high school.

Your reply is proof positive as to why you dont understand the Federal Renewable Energy Legislation and how it relates to the tax breaks and incentives that won bipartisan support since 2001.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by Gouge

Your reply is proof positive as to why you dont understand the Federal Renewable Energy Legislation and how it relates to the tax breaks and incentives that won bipartisan support since 2001.

2001 oil was $25-30 a barrel. Keep up with current events there sparky.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

"They" aren't a couple people sitting in a board room smoking cigars. "They" are hundreds of thousands of shareholders. If you have an IRA/401K, mutual fund, etc, you probably own a piece of Exxon.

This is from 2004
"Exxon Mobil is sending retiring CEO and chair, Lee Raymond, off to his golden years with one of the most lavish exit packages in history, a bonanza worth an estimated $398 million total, according to news reports last week."

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

This is from 2004
"Exxon Mobil is sending retiring CEO and chair, Lee Raymond, off to his golden years with one of the most lavish exit packages in history, a bonanza worth an estimated $398 million total, according to news reports last week."

It's still a public company. If people don't like how they are run, they can sell their stock. He made shareholders a fuckload of money, why would he not be compensated for it? I'm more concerned with companies that lose a ton of money and end up giving their CEO's billions in compensation.

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

2001 oil was $25-30 a barrel. Keep up with current events there sparky.

The Federal Renewable Energy Legislation and how it relates to the tax breaks and incentives is current events and something you obviously know nothing about and dont even know how to argue a position. The bipartisan support since 2001 relates to the some 13 open ended bills that have passed through the Senate and House since then that you also know nothing about or you would have brought them up yourself and argued a point.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by Gouge

The Federal Renewable Energy Legislation and how it relates to the tax breaks and incentives is current events and something you obviously know nothing about and dont even know how to argue a position. The bipartisan support since 2001 relates to the some 13 open ended bills that have passed through the Senate and House since then that you also know nothing about or you would have brought them up yourself and argued a point.

So let me get this straight. You think it is a good idea to give the company that is making the largest profit in US history a tax break?

Tell me that's not what your saying.

[tony286]

I dont understand people defending Exxon.They must like being fucked or like the idea of paying 5 bucks a gallon. lol

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

It's still a public company. If people don't like how they are run, they can sell their stock. He made shareholders a fuckload of money, why would he not be compensated for it? I'm more concerned with companies that lose a ton of money and end up giving their CEO's billions in compensation.

So they should get a tax break then?

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

So let me get this straight. You think it is a good idea to give the company that is making the largest profit in US history a tax break?

Tell me that's not what your saying.

Your so hung up on the catch phrases of "Tax Break" and "Big Oil" that no matter what anyone says your going to argue with them. Mainly because your not educated on the issues and until that happens its pointless to try and carry on an debate over an issue you know nothing about.

Read about the F.R.E.L. Bills, read and understand the incentives and pressure it puts on the Oil companies then come back and form a position on the subject.

[helic0pter]

Tax breaks for Big Oil is just plain ridiculous. Fuck bush and fuck bush's cronies. Most of the top people in our country have direct ties to Big Oil from before they came to power (Condi, Cheney, and Bush to name a few) so they are helping out there friends and themselves and screwing over everyone else.

This administration has made so much money for Big Oil and companies like Haliburton and Blackwater it's absolutely insane and they will be handsomely compensated once they are out of office by all of these companies and they know it.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by Gouge

Your so hung up on the catch phrases of "Tax Break" and "Big Oil" that no matter what anyone says your going to argue with them. Mainly because your not educated on the issues and until that happens its pointless to try and carry on an debate over an issue you know nothing about.

Read about the F.R.E.L. Bills, read and understand the incentives and pressure it puts on the Oil companies then come back and form a position on the subject.

You are so hung up on points in a bill that you can't seem to see the big picture. Every bill has tons of stuff that is good, and stuff that is shitty. Yes there are tax breaks for alternate energy, but they tax breaks they are taking away are for the exploration of more oil.

You still haven't answered the simple question? Do you think they should keep their tax breaks?

I know I can't keep up with your superior brain, but try and appease me.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Does big oil deserve tax breaks. President Bush and the republicans think so.

http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_...=ap-d8v2tung2&

Exxon-Mobil made the largest profit of any US company EVER last year. $42 billion. That's $1331 a second for all those keeping score.

Exxon's profits after taxes on that was only 10%. Not atypical for a public company.

[ADL Colin]

OK, I am looking at XOM.

Earnings before taxes. 66313
Income taxes. 27113
So that is 41%

Not sure what tax credits there are on the other side. Anyone know what that brings their effective tax rate to? 35% 37%? I dunno.

Exxon alone pays more in taxes than the bottom 50% of all taxpayers in America.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Not sure what tax credits there are on the other side. Anyone know what that brings their effective tax rate to? 35% 37%? I dunno.

So the tax breaks would have totaled $17 billion over 10 years spread out over all companies. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say XOM would have received 1/3 of these breaks. So $566 million/year. For a company that paid $27 billion in taxes. It's really neither here or there. It's not going to hurt XOM to remove the breaks. It wasn't a tremendous help either. 5.4 billion shares outstanding. An extra 10 cents per share on a stock trading at about $90/share.

The bigger question is what kind of effect the tax had on smaller companies and I have no idea.

[ADL Colin]

The UK gives tax breaks to their oil companies. 75% of the taxes paid by the top 74 UK companies came from oil companies

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by tony404

I dont understand people defending Exxon.They must like being fucked or like the idea of paying 5 bucks a gallon. lol

Tony, I don't get your point. How will increasing the taxes on an energy company's profits decrease prices at the pump? Or similarly, how will removing a tax break decrease profits at the pump?

Also, higher prices at the pump don't always equate to higher profits for the energy companies. The large integrated energy companies have a mixture of profits from exploration, refining margins and sales. A pretty complicated mix. Watch the "crack spread". This is the refining margin which is only $8.31 NYMEX right now. Lowest it has been in over a year. This will really have an effect on a company like Conoco Phillips.

Why not defend Exxon? What has Exxon done wrong? XOM isn't controlling the price per barrel or the price at the pump. XOM is exploring for petrol products, refining them, shipping them, marketing them and selling them at market prices. They are a well-run company. A well-oiled machine.

[theking]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Tony, I don't get your point. How will increasing the taxes on an energy company's profits decrease prices at the pump? Or similarly, how will removing a tax break decrease profits at the pump?

Also, higher prices at the pump don't always equate to higher profits for the energy companies. The large integrated energy companies have a mixture of profits from exploration, refining margins and sales. A pretty complicated mix. Watch the "crack spread". This is the refining margin which is only $8.31 NYMEX right now. Lowest it has been in over a year. This will really have an effect on a company like Conoco Phillips.

Why not defend Exxon? What has Exxon done wrong? XOM isn't controlling the price per barrel or the price at the pump. XOM is exploring for petrol products, refining them, shipping them, marketing them and selling them at market prices. They are a well-run company. A well-oiled machine.

You are correct...tax breaks would not affect the price at the pumps (tax increases could very well affect the price at the pumps as the oil companies do not operate at a large profit margin)...in addition I am all for tax breaks...specifically for any R&D done by the oil companies...as it will be they that develop alternative energy as they know that oil is a finite resource and will be dwindling in exponential leaps as "3rd world nations" increase their use of oil. In addition when adjusted for inflation gas prices are not much different then they have ever been.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

This is from 2004
"Exxon Mobil is sending retiring CEO and chair, Lee Raymond, off to his golden years with one of the most lavish exit packages in history, a bonanza worth an estimated $398 million total, according to news reports last week."

ADG

[V_RocKs]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

They own the government so they can get what they want.

If only the average American knew how right you are.

[V_RocKs]

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Increasing taxes on energy companies means more money in the government's hands and more money available for military spending. Is that your point?

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

If only the average American knew how right you are.

So the Exxon Mobil shareholders own the government? Well, buy shares of Exxon Mobil then.

[theking]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

So the Exxon Mobil shareholders own the government? Well, buy shares of Exxon Mobil then.

Shareholders are people and it is the people that own the government...and every two years...four years and six years elect...or reelect the people they choose to represent them in government. Some complain about special interest lobbies...but the people are the largest group of lobbiests. They can and should be lobbying their elected representatives on a regular basis. Government for the people and by the people.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Tony, I don't get your point. How will increasing the taxes on an energy company's profits decrease prices at the pump? Or similarly, how will removing a tax break decrease profits at the pump?

Also, higher prices at the pump don't always equate to higher profits for the energy companies. The large integrated energy companies have a mixture of profits from exploration, refining margins and sales. A pretty complicated mix. Watch the "crack spread". This is the refining margin which is only $8.31 NYMEX right now. Lowest it has been in over a year. This will really have an effect on a company like Conoco Phillips.

Why not defend Exxon? What has Exxon done wrong? XOM isn't controlling the price per barrel or the price at the pump. XOM is exploring for petrol products, refining them, shipping them, marketing them and selling them at market prices. They are a well-run company. A well-oiled machine.

Exxon is manipulating the price of oil and gas. They own the oil being pumped, the company that is pumping it, the company that is shipping it, the pipes that are sending it, the refineries that are making the gas, the trucks that are carrying it, and the stations that are putting it in your tank.

Just because they have all these companies with different names, doesn't mean they aren't controlling and manipulating the market.

Why is it that a new refinery hasn't been built in well over 20+ years? Every time the price of gas goes up it is because of not enough refineries, or a refinery is down for maintenance.

They also use the price of a barrel of oil. Even though they are pumping it themselves. Just because they can sell it on the open market for $100 doesn't mean that it costs them any more to pump.

Why is it that I can't even buy a car that gets over 60mpg in this country when they have them in europe? Why was our energy policy with this admin done behind closed doors for the first time ever, and taken all the way to the supreme court to protect who was on the panel?

You guys are all fucking idiots defending these companies that are fucking up our economy. Would you defend the guy that raped you mother because he is a guy and was horny?

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Why is it that a new refinery hasn't been built in well over 20+ years? Every time the price of gas goes up it is because of not enough refineries, or a refinery is down for maintenance.

Why build more refineries when existing facilities can be expanded and new technology can improve capacity - all much cheaper?

Oil is a cyclical business. There was SPARE refining capacity in the US until 10 years ago. Since then refiners have been expanding their capacity at their existing facilities which is a hell of a lot cheaper than building new refineries. In those ten years expansion of existing facilities has added the equivalent capacity of building 10 new refineries. Why would you build a new refinery from the ground up and have to deal with all the NIMBA political attacks such plans always draw (class action suits always come up from new proposed refineries) when you can just expand existing facilities. Federal, state and local laws (environmental regulations) work against the building of new facilities. It can take 5 to 10 years to get approval to build a new refinery. It's like trying to build a nuclear power plant. There is an attempt for the past few years tp get permission to build a new refinery in South Dakota which is meeting a lot of local opposition and other redtape.

On top of all that refining margins (the crack spread) have been low the past decade.

Let's remember also that peak oil production in the US occurred in the 1970s.
We now import much more of our oil and that oil is being increasingly refined elsewhere. Refining capacity world-wide meets present demand. As demand increases existing faciities will be expanded and new faclities built but they will more than likely be built overseas than here in the US.

Meanwhile US companies ARE involved in the building of new refineries overseas where laws are more favorable and costs less prohibitive. Conoco has recently announced plans to build a refinery with Aramco. That will take 5 years from inception to production.

Even just expanding existing facilities can take 5 years because of pressure from environmental groups, local ordinance and fed and state laws.

[spanky part 2]

If what you say is true, then why does the price of gas go thru the roof when just one refinery goes offline for even a day.

I love people defending the oil industry. You must like $5 a gallon gas, because that's where it's going by the summer.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Why is it that a new refinery hasn't been built in well over 20+ years? Every time the price of gas goes up it is because of not enough refineries, or a refinery is down for maintenance.

It's 30+ years. And it's because of environmentalists, legislation that favours them and the NIMBY crowd.

Exxon is manipulating the price of oil and gas. They own the oil being pumped, the company that is pumping it, the company that is shipping it, the pipes that are sending it, the refineries that are making the gas, the trucks that are carrying it, and the stations that are putting it in your tank.

OPEC controls the price of crude, not Exxon. And they set it based on supply and demand. Economics 101.

You guys are all fucking idiots defending these companies that are fucking up our economy.

Face it - without these companies you wouldn't have an economy to fuck up.

Then you'd have to find something or someone else to blame for whatever perceived grievances you have.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

If what you say is true

.

What did I say that you are challenging?

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

I love people defending the oil industry. You must like $5 a gallon gas, because that's where it's going by the summer.

Aluminum, zinc and gold are near all time record highs. Are you angry at the mining industry?

Corn, wheat and spy prices are near record all time highs. Wheat and soybeans hit record highs this week actually. You are paying more for your groceries than ever before. Are you angry with farmers?

When the stock market hits record highs are you angry with the NYSE, AMEX and NASDAQ?

You are free to participate in the fortunes of any of these industries in the capital markets.

[kane]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

The idiots don't understand that any tax increase on oil companies is a tax on everyone who uses oil, gas and even plastics etc..

48% of all Americans own oil stock so it's a double whammy !

And for the record ExxonMobile had 10% profit but Starbucks had a 42% profit. The reason the numbers are so high is because they are the largest company in the world !

I'm curious where you get the number that 48% of people own oil stock. I know a lot of people do through their 401K's, but that seems a little bit high.