(VIDEO) How important are ethics in adult?

[Doug of Montreal]

Adult Insights Ep 21 Video

Are ethics important in adult? Everyone says yes... or at least most do at least while they have a camera pointed at them. Some, though, suggest that there's a grey area that is acceptable to operate in. Where do you draw the line? Would crossing it really affect your business? We hear thoughts from Monty from AVN, Jay D from CrazyShit.com, Kevsh, Avalanche from CherryPimps, Monica from HotMovies, Rob Waters from LiveBucks, SheDevil from Think Pink Online, HoneLynn from High Def Riches and Vegas Ken from The Best Porn.

Some faves:
Kevsh: "Any publicity is good publicity...the examples are numerous of where bad publicity has helped companies."
Avalanche: "People have no problem taking money and screwing people over."
Monica: "It's good to be aware of the other side... even if you don't employ them, you can see what you can do to take advantage of what other people are doing."

SponsorsList sends special thanks to Yappo Dollars for their support.

How important are ethics in adult??

[CarlosTheGaucho]

After recent experience I would dare to say it's actually a competitive advantage..

Although it hurts.

[tony286]

another home run Doug

[Jens Van Assterdam]

Can i borrow Monica for the weekend?

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

After recent experience I would dare to say it's actually a competitive advantage..

Really? That's too bad. Maybe there's a plus side to come out of this that you just haven't seen yet.. :S

(I'm all about the positive spin, even if it means chasing rainbows at night)

[Casa Nova]

Ethics are definitely huge in this industry, you either have it or not. If you have to say something is on the border, it's just to make you feel better about what you did. The people with ethics and morality will go further in this industry in the long run... but at the same time we have a different set of ethics then most people outside the industry, but we know the general limits.

Great episode!

[Joe BrainCash]

Originally Posted by Jens Van Assterdam

Can i borrow Monica for the weekend?

Get in the line buddy.

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by Casa Nova

The people with ethics and morality will go further in this industry in the long run...

Wait, there are people looking to stay for the long-run?

:P

[GetSCORECash]

Good post Doug!

[Doug of Montreal]

Cheers Erasmo... nothing like some quality "ethics" conversation to stir the soul. hehe

[mozadek]

Ethics in adult!?!? Don't be ridiculous.

[Casa Nova]

Originally Posted by mozadek

Ethics in adult!?!? Don't be ridiculous.

lol, maybe morality then? haha

[seeric]

I'm keeping mine. Whether or not I don't get as far ahead or not.

I guarantee it makes me more money in the long run. Guaranteed.

[MichaelP]

Originally Posted by mozadek

Ethics in adult!?!? Don't be ridiculous.

mozadek
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 96

Words of Wisdom ?

I am sure that with your long run experience in our industry you can enlight us all about your theory.....

[seeric]

Originally Posted by Casa Nova

Ethics are definitely huge in this industry, you either have it or not. If you have to say something is on the border, it's just to make you feel better about what you did. The people with ethics and morality will go further in this industry in the long run... but at the same time we have a different set of ethics then most people outside the industry, but we know the general limits.

Great episode!

With all due respect to you Casa, you're just a baby in this business. Don't believe everything or anything for that matter about what you hear from people who you "think" may have ethics. I have seen some of the posts that you've put in some threads over the last year on certain people, just in general saying they are great guys, great people when in fact they are scumbags. You wouldn't believe half of the shit that some of these "stand up guys" do if I told you.

One thing that you will learn over time is the game is played behind the scenes, not on these boards. You can't go around outing everyone when you want to. You can pick certain things to kick people in the nuts about, but behind the scenes is where the real dirt is. Some people get to see it, some don't. You've learned a lot in short period of time, but you haven't even cracked the surface on the ethics of many people you think you may know.

You're a good kid and I think you'll go far, just know that when you say someone is a "stand up guy", they may actually not be.


Much Love.

[MichaelP]

Nice Post and Interview Doug BTW

[DamageX]

Interesting topic, especially considering the big banners for JuggCash on the page.

[seeric]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Interesting topic, especially considering the big banners for JuggCash on the page.

See what I mean. LOL.

the lines cross too many places to not do biz with people. if you didnt do bizness with anyone that had some shady in them how would anyone make any money? sad but true.

no offense to doug, but i thought that was a funny post you just made.

[seeric]

damage you missed chris hansen ripped image and cartooned in the webcashmaker banner or whatever the name is. lol.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

See what I mean. LOL.

the lines cross too many places to not do biz with people. if you didnt do bizness with anyone that had some shady in them how would anyone make any money? sad but true.

no offense to doug, but i thought that was a funny post you just made.

Oh, I agree. I got a shitlist on my board and if I were to divide the industry in black and white, according to shady practices, my shitlist would be full. Hmmm, there's an idea, I bet Google would love those threads.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

damage you missed chris hansen ripped image and cartooned in the webcashmaker banner or whatever the name is. lol.

Actually, I believe that one is allowed, since it can be considered "artistic parody" or something like that. Not saying they still can't be sued over it though.

[seeric]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Oh, I agree. I got a shitlist on my board and if I were to divide the industry in black and white, according to shady practices, my shitlist would be full. Hmmm, there's an idea, I bet Google would love those threads.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Casa Nova

The people with ethics and morality will go further in this industry in the long run...

100% False.

Some of the biggest dirt bags in the history of mankind reside at the top levels of this industry and the means of which of how they got there often involved some criminal activity or other.

Cool guys yeah some of them but none the less some are the most unethical fuck heads you never met. I think Ethics has very little to do with this industry. If it's legal or technically legal there is no moral about a decision.

It could be spam, UBE, Dialers, Shaving, Shooting 18 year old girls with braces on thier birth day's. It oculd be stealing traffic, jacking traffic, stealing content outright, You name it, it has been done. So clearly what is ethic? Ethic is nothing more than a matter of comfort and some have more and some have less of it.

I were to deem myself as ethical I seriously doubt I would have been in this business as long as I have.

[seeric]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

100% False.

Some of the biggest dirt bags in the history of mankind reside at the top levels of this industry and the means of which of how they got there often involved some criminal activity or other.

Cool guys yeah some of them but none the less some are the most unethical fuck heads you never met. I think Ethics has very little to do with this industry. If it's legal or technically legal there is no moral about a decision.

It could be spam, UBE, Dialers, Shaving, Shooting 18 year old girls with braces on thier birth day's. It oculd be stealing traffic, jacking traffic, stealing content outright, You name it, it has been done. So clearly what is ethic? Ethic is nothing more than a matter of comfort and some have more and some have less of it.

I were to deem myself as ethical I seriously doubt I would have been in this business as long as I have.

He's new M. When I first started in late 98 I thought everyone was my friend and full of awesomeness too. That's why I wrote what I did to him. He will learn.

Notice how I said that my ethics will get ME personally farther. Trustworthy people are hard to find. In the long run they find nice homes. As for shadies, well they are what they are. Man if I could spew some of the shit I know after the last year of investigation and talking to people, oh boy oh boy. Not would it rock some people, it would be just flat RUDE!

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

100% False.

So far...

Eventually, this industry MIGHT get cleaned up, although I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. But just like any industry which matures, it WILL consolidate, get more regulated (from without or from within) and entry barriers will creep up. Plus, if porn gets more and more mainstream (which I believe it will), more eyes will be on the industry and the people in it as others would see it more as a legitimate business, instead of the devil's offsprings trying to tempt good Christians into sinning.

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Eventually, this industry MIGHT get cleaned up, although I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. If porn gets more and more mainstream... people in it as others would see it more as a legitimate business, instead of the devil's offsprings trying to tempt good Christians into sinning.

I'd like to imagine that that's true, but we'll all be dead and gone before the industry gets turned into "perfomance art" and accepted at that level. Also, there would have to be no more "good Christians" left to be tempted... and without the good Christians, would we have anyone left to sell to?

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

With all due respect to you Casa, you're just a baby in this business. Don't believe everything or anything for that matter about what you hear from people who you "think" may have ethics. I have seen some of the posts that you've put in some threads over the last year on certain people, just in general saying they are great guys, great people when in fact they are scumbags. You wouldn't believe half of the shit that some of these "stand up guys" do if I told you.

One thing that you will learn over time is the game is played behind the scenes, not on these boards. You can't go around outing everyone when you want to. You can pick certain things to kick people in the nuts about, but behind the scenes is where the real dirt is. Some people get to see it, some don't. You've learned a lot in short period of time, but you haven't even cracked the surface on the ethics of many people you think you may know.

You're a good kid and I think you'll go far, just know that when you say someone is a "stand up guy", they may actually not be.


Much Love.

Good post

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

the lines cross too many places to not do biz with people. if you didnt do bizness with anyone that had some shady in them how would anyone make any money?

That's so true. If you took everyone out who has done shady business, be it something as simple as SEO spam or things much worse, methinks GFY would be a ghost town...

And you're also bang on about the need to watch out for the "stand up guys" you think you know, in this business or any other. People are a lot different than they appear on the boards or what you see of them at conferences. Adult brings special kind of magic to the mix, though.

It's like if you've ever been in any crisis. You bond with those random people around you, fighting for a common goal. However, had that crisis never occurred, you would never had had the desire to do as much as hold the door open for some of them. This industry seems a lot like that. We catch a lot of flack for doing what we do, so there seems to be this instinctive bonding that goes on. Personally, I enjoy it, but you have to see a lot of it for what it is: we're all trapped together so we are just making the best of it.

[Hell House Vic]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

With all due respect to you Casa, you're just a baby in this business. Don't believe everything or anything for that matter about what you hear from people who you "think" may have ethics. I have seen some of the posts that you've put in some threads over the last year on certain people, just in general saying they are great guys, great people when in fact they are scumbags. You wouldn't believe half of the shit that some of these "stand up guys" do if I told you.

One thing that you will learn over time is the game is played behind the scenes, not on these boards. You can't go around outing everyone when you want to. You can pick certain things to kick people in the nuts about, but behind the scenes is where the real dirt is. Some people get to see it, some don't. You've learned a lot in short period of time, but you haven't even cracked the surface on the ethics of many people you think you may know.

You're a good kid and I think you'll go far, just know that when you say someone is a "stand up guy", they may actually not be.


Much Love.

That was a good post, senor.

However... I am SOOOOOOOO ethical it hurts.

[Supz]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Ethic is nothing more than a matter of comfort and some have more and some have less of it.

This seems to sum it up for me, I havent been in this industry for a long time. And i still have other business outside the adult world. But ethics and business are hard to put in the same sentence. I worked in a corporate environment for a long time, for public companies, and i've never met as many back stabbers and liars in my life as i did there, with people trying to work there way up the food chain. Having the different levels of comfort that AlienQ talks about is the nature of the beast. Part of being human i guess.

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by Kick Ass Vic

However... I am SOOOOOOOO ethical it hurts.

Yeah, but you look bad-ass, so it evens out ;)

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by supzdotcom

But ethics and business are hard to put in the same sentence.

But why is that? Do we make business bad or does business make us bad? I'd like to think we're fundamentally good as a whole, but methinks it's us making business bad.

[Tom_PM]

It's all about where YOU draw the line personally, no industry draws that line for you.

To put it another way, if someone screwed you blatantly and laughed about it in public, would you blame the industry that they were in?

Car dealer? (all crooks?)
Plumber? (all crooks?)
Doctor? (all quacks?)

You get the idea. Ethics are entirely personal, not dependant on an industry.
IMHO plus

[Honez]

Originally Posted by Doug of Montreal

That's so true. If you took everyone out who has done shady business, be it something as simple as SEO spam or things much worse, methinks GFY would be a ghost town...

And you're also bang on about the need to watch out for the "stand up guys" you think you know, in this business or any other. People are a lot different than they appear on the boards or what you see of them at conferences. Adult brings special kind of magic to the mix, though.

It's like if you've ever been in any crisis. You bond with those random people around you, fighting for a common goal. However, had that crisis never occurred, you would never had had the desire to do as much as hold the door open for some of them. This industry seems a lot like that. We catch a lot of flack for doing what we do, so there seems to be this instinctive bonding that goes on. Personally, I enjoy it, but you have to see a lot of it for what it is: we're all trapped together so we are just making the best of it.

Very well said

[Hell House Vic]

Originally Posted by Doug of Montreal

Yeah, but you look bad-ass, so it evens out ;)

you rule.
but are you saying i look like a cheater?
ha!
i guess it could be the "pirate" in me.

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by Honez

Very well said

And having said that, being "trapped" with you is a true pleasure! ;)

[Casa Nova]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

With all due respect to you Casa, you're just a baby in this business. Don't believe everything or anything for that matter about what you hear from people who you "think" may have ethics. I have seen some of the posts that you've put in some threads over the last year on certain people, just in general saying they are great guys, great people when in fact they are scumbags. You wouldn't believe half of the shit that some of these "stand up guys" do if I told you.

One thing that you will learn over time is the game is played behind the scenes, not on these boards. You can't go around outing everyone when you want to. You can pick certain things to kick people in the nuts about, but behind the scenes is where the real dirt is. Some people get to see it, some don't. You've learned a lot in short period of time, but you haven't even cracked the surface on the ethics of many people you think you may know.

You're a good kid and I think you'll go far, just know that when you say someone is a "stand up guy", they may actually not be.


Much Love.

Thanks for the reply Airek, & no worries I take no offense to what you said. You're completely right, I have made bad judgments on some people. It is truly a learning curve but at the same time there are alot of people I can see through there bullshit. Even though I may say someone is a good guy on boards you must understand that I to am just trying to be the nice guy, even though I may not agree with someones ethics and ulterior motives that doesn't mean I'm going to completely stop talking to them saying they are good people etc. I can't judge someone completely on there past, though it is a reference point to be careful. I don't want to burn bridges with anyone "stand up guy" or not, because like you said, sometimes you have to deal with these people from a business standpoint.

Again thanks for the comments Airek, I am taking what you said and definitely keeping it in mind for the future. Add me to icq and we can talk sometime.

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

It's all about where YOU draw the line personally, no industry draws that line for you.

No, but our industry draws lines based around much different issues... much more entertaining, at least ;) Quacks are certainly the worst case of the three (err... four, including adult) but at least they have a code that they are supposed to live by. I didn't get a mantra when I signed up for this industry, but I think we could certainly use one.

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by Casa Nova

A lot of people I can see through there bullshit.

And this is a good point... what kind of sales rep would you be if you called it like you saw it? hahahaha... hahahaha! Oh, my sides! Needless to saY, you wouldn't last long.

Having said that, i appreciate all the flattery. It WILL get you traffic! :p

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by Kick Ass Vic

but are you saying i look like a cheater? i guess it could be the "pirate" in me.

Naw man, tiz a good look! Pirate on!

[Meloman]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

100% False.

Some of the biggest dirt bags in the history of mankind reside at the top levels of this industry and the means of which of how they got there often involved some criminal activity or other.

Cool guys yeah some of them but none the less some are the most unethical fuck heads you never met. I think Ethics has very little to do with this industry. If it's legal or technically legal there is no moral about a decision.

It could be spam, UBE, Dialers, Shaving, Shooting 18 year old girls with braces on thier birth day's. It oculd be stealing traffic, jacking traffic, stealing content outright, You name it, it has been done. So clearly what is ethic? Ethic is nothing more than a matter of comfort and some have more and some have less of it.

I were to deem myself as ethical I seriously doubt I would have been in this business as long as I have.

Agreed. But I think this can be said about any industry. The older I get the more I've realized that all humans are greedy animals period. We are all selfish and greedy, EVERYONE. It's simply that some of us are more greedy and selfish than others.

And the plain FACT is the greediest people with least morals and ethics make the most money period! Bill Gates stole the windows interface from Apple remember! If he would have though "hey apple is cool, I know steve personaly, i don't want to steal his ideas, lets be original"...Bill wouldn't have made Microsoft what it is today

If you make millions a year, you most likely are super agressive in bussiness and tend not to think of the consequences of your actions. "Make money today, deal with the repricusions when they come. Biz is biz. No one is friends in biz etc.". I've hard it all, and it's all true.

You want to be wealthy? Then you need to look at every company out there as you enemy, as your competition and feel from the inside out that you will do whatever it takes to beat them and not feel an ounce of guilt doing it.

Me personaly. If I started Microsfot, and if I happen to actually become friends with Steve Jobs...I would have NEVER been able to bring myself to flat out steal there interface. I would have tried to be original and not screw over my friends company...and that thinking would have let microsoft fall behind and apple win.

Me Personaly....I'm to damn nice....and therefore not "wealthy"...

[Mister E]

Originally Posted by Casa Nova

Thanks for the reply Airek, & no worries I take no offense to what you said. You're completely right, I have made bad judgments on some people. It is truly a learning curve but at the same time there are alot of people I can see through there bullshit. Even though I may say someone is a good guy on boards you must understand that I to am just trying to be the nice guy, even though I may not agree with someones ethics and ulterior motives that doesn't mean I'm going to completely stop talking to them saying they are good people etc. I can't judge someone completely on there past, though it is a reference point to be careful. I don't want to burn bridges with anyone "stand up guy" or not, because like you said, sometimes you have to deal with these people from a business standpoint.

Again thanks for the comments Airek, I am taking what you said and definitely keeping it in mind for the future. Add me to icq and we can talk sometime.

Casa, you are a genius in your own way. You are ethical. It's a provable fact.
Sometimes all it takes to find ethical people is kindness.

So, listen to 'their' comments and ask why cynics are cynical.

People want you to succeed, and may not realize ethics when acted out have no fiscal or attendant value.

I love this business. I had to be away from it to realize the creative juices flow here like no other business.

I'm sure nobody cares...here's a short list of amazing people I am proud to know, however marginally.

Casa Nova (he's young, maybe a little naive but for real, GREAT score Slckstars)

RocHard (he makes all feel welcome, has an incredible respect for people and is kind)

Joel and M'Lady Treasure (the least conventional and most gorgeous couple in Bedrock)

Hot Monica (because she has no idea how gorgeous is her sunshine in this vacuous biz)


By the way, in many cases women get treated like shit in this biz, it seems to be profitable...

I guess I am an way too old ex punk Liberal but...

[Doug of Montreal]

Originally Posted by Mister E

By the way, in many cases women get treated like shit in this biz, it seems to be profitable...

And there is the worst offense, by far. It's so sad.

[seeric]

Casa will go far.

[brandonstills]

Ethics in a way is an alignment with higher natural law. Read "Power vs Force". Great book. In an area that is so rank with low ethics, having them is a strong competitive advantage.

One of the speakers made a point about making products you would actually use yourself. This does not seem to be the case right now and is a large part why amateur porn like youporn and clips4sale have become so popular.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Originally Posted by Doug of Montreal

Really? That's too bad. Maybe there's a plus side to come out of this that you just haven't seen yet.. :S

(I'm all about the positive spin, even if it means chasing rainbows at night)

I actually have to say that if I would compare myself 2 years ago and now, my view of the industry community went from idealised to sober..

[wanted]

if it converts it's ethical !

[brandonstills]

Originally Posted by Meloman

Agreed. But I think this can be said about any industry. The older I get the more I've realized that all humans are greedy animals period. We are all selfish and greedy, EVERYONE. It's simply that some of us are more greedy and selfish than others.

And the plain FACT is the greediest people with least morals and ethics make the most money period! Bill Gates stole the windows interface from Apple remember! If he would have though "hey apple is cool, I know steve personaly, i don't want to steal his ideas, lets be original"...Bill wouldn't have made Microsoft what it is today

If you make millions a year, you most likely are super agressive in bussiness and tend not to think of the consequences of your actions. "Make money today, deal with the repricusions when they come. Biz is biz. No one is friends in biz etc.". I've hard it all, and it's all true.

You want to be wealthy? Then you need to look at every company out there as you enemy, as your competition and feel from the inside out that you will do whatever it takes to beat them and not feel an ounce of guilt doing it.

Me personaly. If I started Microsfot, and if I happen to actually become friends with Steve Jobs...I would have NEVER been able to bring myself to flat out steal there interface. I would have tried to be original and not screw over my friends company...and that thinking would have let microsoft fall behind and apple win.

Me Personaly....I'm to damn nice....and therefore not "wealthy"...

HELLO! Apple stole the GUI concepts from Xerox. And the manner in which they did it was way more unethical than Microsoft. Microsoft gave to the people and opened things up to them. Why do you think they became so successful? Then power went to their head and they started becoming evil. Now look what happened to them. Nobody wants to use their product or develop for it, but they feel they have to so they do. They force their customers to do things they don't want to because they don't have a choice. Same with Apple and developers. Why do you think nobody develops for the Mac? Just look at the iPhone SDK. They have to approve all software that gets written, and they take a huge cut, and there's no way to install software on the phone unless it's authorized first by Apple.

Now look at Google and it's don't be evil philosophy. Give customers what they want. Customer is first, make money is secondary to that. Everyone at Microsoft wanted to work for Google. Customers started using google because they trusted the results. You know the rest of the story.

Being unethical may work for a time but your advantage will quickly disappear. In fact being ethical is a competitive advantage. You will gain customers, employees will want to work for you, and partners will want to work with you.

[Love Sex]

the actual word ethics is subjective to each person.

Lets just say 99.5% cant pull off a ex. megarotic piratebay type move, but in reality most would if they had the skills.

i surf the free stolen tube sites but i would never to business with them.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by brandonstills

HELLO! Apple stole the GUI concepts from Xerox. And the manner in which they did it was way more unethical than Microsoft. Microsoft gave to the people and opened things up to them. Why do you think they became so successful? Then power went to their head and they started becoming evil. Now look what happened to them. Nobody wants to use their product or develop for it, but they feel they have to so they do. They force their customers to do things they don't want to because they don't have a choice. Same with Apple and developers. Why do you think nobody develops for the Mac? Just look at the iPhone SDK. They have to approve all software that gets written, and they take a huge cut, and there's no way to install software on the phone unless it's authorized first by Apple.

Now look at Google and it's don't be evil philosophy. Give customers what they want. Customer is first, make money is secondary to that. Everyone at Microsoft wanted to work for Google. Customers started using google because they trusted the results. You know the rest of the story.

Being unethical may work for a time but your advantage will quickly disappear. In fact being ethical is a competitive advantage. You will gain customers, employees will want to work for you, and partners will want to work with you.

good points