GFY is dying a slow death [proofs] - GoFuckYourself.com

Dennis Rodman · 06-08-2008, 05:27 AM

Traffic is waaaaaaay down. Sad actually.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...ckyourself.com

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...etails/gfy.com

Tat2Jr · 06-08-2008, 05:29 AM

Too bad the right people aren't the ones leaving.

Klen · 06-08-2008, 05:30 AM

No kidding?People moving to mainstream from adult so they dont have need anymore to post here.

notoldschool · 06-08-2008, 05:32 AM

Fucking tube sites.

Klen · 06-08-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Fucking tube sites.

Tehnicly it is their fault

teomaxxx · 06-08-2008, 06:25 AM

I remember when I came to GFY, the thread without any reply would move out of the front page in less then half hour. Now it stays on front page for at least 1 or 2 hours sometimes....

Electric Lights · 06-08-2008, 06:29 AM

GFY has jumped the shark.

All the people that matter are now posting at the new board. (sorry cant post url)

notoldschool · 06-08-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric Lights

GFY has jumped the shark.

All the people that matter are now posting at the new board. (sorry cant post url)

Like u would know.

GetSCORECash · 06-08-2008, 06:44 AM

traffic is down in general for all the boards.

IllTestYourGirls · 06-08-2008, 06:51 AM

message boards are so 1990s. They are behind the times and need to adapt to the new tube sites. There should be video responses that can be uploaded by the user.

peeperpimp · 06-08-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Like u would know.

Actually he's right we've moved on, (not necessarily to main stream eghter) I myself still come back here and there, atleast to post trade opportunities. (in tradeing section)

But for the most part I'm somewhere else,...

This board was the shit back when... but all these neewbies ruined it with there trade spammings,, rediculous Dramatic BS Crap, among alot of other things...

The sad part (imo) is that GFY can see whats going on and doesn't even give a fuck,..

Just yesterday, I discovered some retard tried to take over one of my tradeing threads to use as his own in order to gain expusre for his own shit,, I guess cause the fucker was too lazy to start his own thread or figured he'd get more signups using one of mine since alot more ppl where actually checking it out, heh.

Whatever, I wish all you the best of luck\, Im sure I'll see sum of you posting around here and there...

Peace out c'ya around

Jman · 06-08-2008, 07:40 AM

People like DirtyF, Metaman, and other dumb fucks are killing this place.

I use to love it around here, great posts, great piss match by REAL webmasters.

Oh well, as long as they don't migrate to the other place I hang out for now it's all good.

And if GFY ever clean house then I'll surely come back and post more here as well.

Robbie · 06-08-2008, 08:26 AM

Hey guys...I'm confused. GFY was originally supposed to be for people who are actually IN the adult business. There aren't that many of us. So if you see huge Alexa stats that means one thing: SURFERS and "Civilians" that have no business here anyway. And in my opinion it has always hurt us to have them here reading about how the business really works...or in the case of a lot of guys on here: doesn't work. I'm pretty sure Alexa ratings don't have much to do with GFY's purpose or mission. Unless I'm missing something that you guys can point me to. I would think that there shouldn't have ever been more than a couple of hundred people on here...and that's about 100 more that I know are real players. So I would actually take declining Alexa ratings as a good thing because it means the surfers have finally gotten tired of laughing at our drama and are moving on. Won't affect the real business that goes on here I don't think.

minddust · 06-08-2008, 08:51 AM

Welcome, minddust.
You last visited: 05-10-2008 at 08:50 PM

...and I don't think I missed something.

Marky333 · 06-08-2008, 09:49 AM

no more webmasters out there ... :P

TheSenator · 06-08-2008, 10:06 AM

All the advertising on GFY has definitely turned me off. I would rather see adult affiliate programs spend their money more wisely on their affiliates rather than on skinning. Or a post about an affiliate program without all the reps chiming in because they really don't know much as I do. I am in the biz already 9 years deep. Can't complain and GFY will still be a force.

RedShoe · 06-08-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Hey guys...I'm confused. GFY was originally supposed to be for people who are actually IN the adult business. There aren't that many of us. So if you see huge Alexa stats that means one thing: SURFERS and "Civilians" that have no business here anyway. And in my opinion it has always hurt us to have them here reading about how the business really works...or in the case of a lot of guys on here: doesn't work. I'm pretty sure Alexa ratings don't have much to do with GFY's purpose or mission. Unless I'm missing something that you guys can point me to. I would think that there shouldn't have ever been more than a couple of hundred people on here...and that's about 100 more that I know are real players. So I would actually take declining Alexa ratings as a good thing because it means the surfers have finally gotten tired of laughing at our drama and are moving on. Won't affect the real business that goes on here I don't think.

Well, well well. Looks like we got us a 'thinker'.

Go away, we don't like your kind here.

DatingGold · 06-08-2008, 10:18 AM

Once traffic gets lower, advertisers will start dropping off. Then they will care and by then it's probably too late.

I noticed it was alot slower than it used to be last night. Threads weren't moving at all.

seeandsee · 06-08-2008, 10:24 AM

Looks like people are doing biz all day long

DaLord · 06-08-2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DatingGold

Once traffic gets lower, advertisers will start dropping off. Then they will care and by then it's probably too late.

I noticed it was alot slower than it used to be last night. Threads weren't moving at all.

When I sold Adult Webmaster Land years ago things were going really well. No sure what happened but boards need to be taken care of or they'll die

GFY will never be the same if they don't start cleaning up soon.

Mike

Miguel T · 06-08-2008, 10:38 AM

The problem is the tube sites.

JFK · 06-08-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbsolutePorn

The problem is the tube sites.

what? You get free drama there ?

Jim_Gunn · 06-08-2008, 10:42 AM

There is still a lot of industry people posting here and some business to be done, although there are a whole crew of wing nuts that I have no clue who they are or what they do also.

crockett · 06-08-2008, 10:46 AM

It's what happens when they fail to moderate the board. Instead of kicking out the useless trolls they let the tolls run off all the legit people.

tony286 · 06-08-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Hey guys...I'm confused. GFY was originally supposed to be for people who are actually IN the adult business. There aren't that many of us. So if you see huge Alexa stats that means one thing: SURFERS and "Civilians" that have no business here anyway. And in my opinion it has always hurt us to have them here reading about how the business really works...or in the case of a lot of guys on here: doesn't work. I'm pretty sure Alexa ratings don't have much to do with GFY's purpose or mission. Unless I'm missing something that you guys can point me to. I would think that there shouldn't have ever been more than a couple of hundred people on here...and that's about 100 more that I know are real players. So I would actually take declining Alexa ratings as a good thing because it means the surfers have finally gotten tired of laughing at our drama and are moving on. Won't affect the real business that goes on here I don't think.

good point Robbie, I look forward to meeting you at the atlanta forum.

nikki99 · 06-08-2008, 11:45 AM

I blame tube sites too

Wilbo · 06-08-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric Lights

GFY has jumped the shark.

All the people that matter are now posting at the new board. (sorry cant post url)

Give us newbs a hint. What other board?

woj · 06-08-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Fucking tube sites.

pornask · 06-08-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean-Francois

People like DirtyF, Metaman, and other dumb fucks are killing this place.

I use to love it around here, great posts, great piss match by REAL webmasters.

Oh well, as long as they don't migrate to the other place I hang out for now it's all good.

And if GFY ever clean house then I'll surely come back and post more here as well.

Actually, it was when Franck stopped posting regularly when the stats started going down. During his reign the stats were sky high.

Tuga · 06-08-2008, 12:06 PM

Alexa changed the way it works recently and penalized webmaster sites because it's a lot more likely webmasters have the toolbar installed. That's the only reason GFY was so high on the ranks anyway.

Tuga · 06-08-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Fucking tube sites.

The only reason I came back to GFY was because I started a tube site

eightmotives · 06-08-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Hey guys...I'm confused. GFY was originally supposed to be for people who are actually IN the adult business. There aren't that many of us. So if you see huge Alexa stats that means one thing: SURFERS and "Civilians" that have no business here anyway. And in my opinion it has always hurt us to have them here reading about how the business really works...or in the case of a lot of guys on here: doesn't work. I'm pretty sure Alexa ratings don't have much to do with GFY's purpose or mission. Unless I'm missing something that you guys can point me to. I would think that there shouldn't have ever been more than a couple of hundred people on here...and that's about 100 more that I know are real players. So I would actually take declining Alexa ratings as a good thing because it means the surfers have finally gotten tired of laughing at our drama and are moving on. Won't affect the real business that goes on here I don't think.

Very well put. Plus there's only so much you can talk about on the board. Every topic seems to get covered multiple times here. What do you expect? Enjoy the board as a way to network and hang out.

Tjeezers · 06-08-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eightmotives

Very well put. Plus there's only so much you can talk about on the board. Every topic seems to get covered multiple times here. What do you expect? Enjoy the board as a way to network and hang out.

How can you network with free sex surfers and part time webmasters and program owners that are on shows all the time networking with other programs to shoot affiliates in the foot?

2012 · 06-08-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Rodman

Traffic is waaaaaaay down. Sad actually.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...ckyourself.com

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...etails/gfy.com

trip out

Ron Bennett · 06-08-2008, 01:59 PM

Alexa stats are a very rough estimate, and not necessarily reflective of any reality.

With that said, GFY posting activity appears to be much less than it used to be - less new threads; not moving down as fast.

While there are many reasons for the GFY slowdown, the biggest, in my view, is the excitement is gone - several years ago, on-line adult was the hot money making thing in which anyone with an internet connection and some free time could earn lots of $$$. Those days are gone, and hence so are many of those type of folks.

On-line adult business has not only changed considerably, but has consolidated quite a bit with many folks selling out to rivals, mergers of companies, etc.

GFY should either become smaller and more focused to productive folks in the adult business; perhaps becomes members only.

Or go the other direction and branch out into mainstream ... GFY owns gfy.com, so they could potentially brand the acronym to mean something else or even nothing; develop and promote another site here for discussion / promotion of mainstream programs.

Bottom line, as many have mentioned already, GFY should do something or otherwise risk these forums becoming irrelevant / obsolete in the near future.

Ron

baddog · 06-08-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

All the advertising on GFY has definitely turned me off. I would rather see adult affiliate programs spend their money more wisely on their affiliates rather than on skinning.

hmmm, like take the $25k and split it among existing affiliates? So, if a program had a mere 500 affiliates you would each get $50.

I am guessing you had something different in mind. Hint please.

bringer · 06-08-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

All the advertising on GFY has definitely turned me off.

you dont LOVE mousing over a banner and having a foghorn wake the neighbors at 2am? cops at the door are awesome!

the Shemp · 06-08-2008, 02:16 PM

too much free porn ....

Tuga · 06-08-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Shemp

too much free porn ....

That line is as old as your join date

LivePornBlog · 06-08-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringer

you dont LOVE mousing over a banner and having a foghorn wake the neighbors at 2am? cops at the door are awesome!

lol yah, but how loud do you keep your speakers at?

baddog · 06-08-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringer

you dont LOVE mousing over a banner and having a foghorn wake the neighbors at 2am? cops at the door are awesome!

Just move your van further away.

bringer · 06-08-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Just move your van further away.

its already down by the river. any further and id be floating.

qxm · 06-08-2008, 03:04 PM

the board is having less traffic? .... interesting, I find this to be good news ....

bringer · 06-08-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivePornBlog

lol yah, but how loud do you keep your speakers at?

normal volume i guess. i was listening to that angry german kid screaming at counterstrike on youtube before the horn hit. kid wasnt loud but the horn vibrated the wall.

escorpio · 06-08-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Shemp

too much free porn ....

I have toomuchfreeporn.com for sale. Great name for a tube site.

baddog · 06-08-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringer

its already down by the river. any further and id be floating.

At least there would be no noise complaints . . . other than the possible screaming emanating from it.

Sly · 06-08-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

hmmm, like take the $25k and split it among existing affiliates? So, if a program had a mere 500 affiliates you would each get $50.

I am guessing you had something different in mind. Hint please.

No, he is saying instead of spending that $25k on a skin... spend it on new sites,more updates, more affiliate tools, etc.

I find it kind of disappointing that the owners and creators of the board really don't actively participate anymore.

crockett · 06-08-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Hey guys...I'm confused. GFY was originally supposed to be for people who are actually IN the adult business. There aren't that many of us. So if you see huge Alexa stats that means one thing: SURFERS and "Civilians" that have no business here anyway. And in my opinion it has always hurt us to have them here reading about how the business really works...or in the case of a lot of guys on here: doesn't work. I'm pretty sure Alexa ratings don't have much to do with GFY's purpose or mission. Unless I'm missing something that you guys can point me to. I would think that there shouldn't have ever been more than a couple of hundred people on here...and that's about 100 more that I know are real players. So I would actually take declining Alexa ratings as a good thing because it means the surfers have finally gotten tired of laughing at our drama and are moving on. Won't affect the real business that goes on here I don't think.

If less people meant more "quality" posters then your argument might hold true. However we have less and less quality posters and more and more lackies. The reason GFY is dying is because there are less quality posters to draw in new members.

So we end up with a bunch of useless posters whom pretty much do nothing but annoy legit webmasters. So now the board starts to die because the useless posters can't provide any real substance to keep real webmasters or attract new ones.

So in short less doesn't me it's better and there are actually thousands of real webmasters, so think only a few 100 is not true IMO.

papill0n · 06-08-2008, 04:21 PM

they need to install the duplicate ip hack

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 06-08-2008, 04:26 PM

the ridiculous banner stuffing and nonstop sponsored themes are surely annoying. i know it send me towards other forums. i still come back, but i'm sure it has pushed at least a few people away completely.

the lack of moderation is surely another key point affecting it. just wacth, and as traffic drops, and advertisers car eless and less to buy those $25k spots, they will care even less to moderate this shithole...

06-08-2008, 05:27 AM	#1
Dennis Rodman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,060	GFY is dying a slow death [proofs] Traffic is waaaaaaay down. Sad actually. http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...ckyourself.com http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...etails/gfy.com

06-08-2008, 05:29 AM	#2
Tat2Jr Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sunny California Posts: 4,882	Too bad the right people aren't the ones leaving. __________________ NICHE MONEY >> Ass Worship • Panties • Solo Teen • Pantyhose Serving up exclusive fetish sites since 1997!

06-08-2008, 05:32 AM	#4
notoldschool Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,687	Fucking tube sites. __________________ No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture. -- Learned Hand http://www.bjpenn.com

06-08-2008, 06:44 AM	#9
GetSCORECash Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 5,527	traffic is down in general for all the boards. __________________ \| skype: getscorecash \| ICQ: 59-271-063 \| New Sites: \| SCORELAND2 \| Roku Channel SCORETV.TV \| 60PLUSMILFS \| \| Big Tit Hooker \| Tits And Tugs \| Big Boobs POV \| Karla James \| \| Naughty Foot Jobs \| Linsey's World \| Busty Arianna Sinn \| Get SCORE Cash \|

06-08-2008, 06:51 AM	#10
IllTestYourGirls Ah My Balls Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under the gold leaf ICQ 388-454-421 Posts: 14,311	message boards are so 1990s. They are behind the times and need to adapt to the new tube sites. There should be video responses that can be uploaded by the user. __________________

06-08-2008, 05:30 AM	#3
Klen Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Little Vienna Posts: 32,235	No kidding?People moving to mainstream from adult so they dont have need anymore to post here.

06-08-2008, 06:25 AM	#6
teomaxxx Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,734	I remember when I came to GFY, the thread without any reply would move out of the front page in less then half hour. Now it stays on front page for at least 1 or 2 hours sometimes....

06-08-2008, 06:29 AM	#7
Electric Lights So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 224	GFY has jumped the shark. All the people that matter are now posting at the new board. (sorry cant post url)

06-08-2008, 07:40 AM	#12
Jman Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Canuckstikan Posts: 22,766	People like DirtyF, Metaman, and other dumb fucks are killing this place. I use to love it around here, great posts, great piss match by REAL webmasters. Oh well, as long as they don't migrate to the other place I hang out for now it's all good. And if GFY ever clean house then I'll surely come back and post more here as well. __________________ email: [email protected] Best AI Affiliate Program We also do WL at $0.00 upfront costs FantasyXXX.AI Teams: jean.francois.laverdiere TG: @jman1216

06-08-2008, 08:26 AM	#13
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	Hey guys...I'm confused. GFY was originally supposed to be for people who are actually IN the adult business. There aren't that many of us. So if you see huge Alexa stats that means one thing: SURFERS and "Civilians" that have no business here anyway. And in my opinion it has always hurt us to have them here reading about how the business really works...or in the case of a lot of guys on here: doesn't work. I'm pretty sure Alexa ratings don't have much to do with GFY's purpose or mission. Unless I'm missing something that you guys can point me to. I would think that there shouldn't have ever been more than a couple of hundred people on here...and that's about 100 more that I know are real players. So I would actually take declining Alexa ratings as a good thing because it means the surfers have finally gotten tired of laughing at our drama and are moving on. Won't affect the real business that goes on here I don't think. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

06-08-2008, 08:51 AM	#14
minddust Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,438	Welcome, minddust. You last visited: 05-10-2008 at 08:50 PM ...and I don't think I missed something.

06-08-2008, 09:49 AM	#15
Marky333 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 974	no more webmasters out there ... :P

06-08-2008, 10:06 AM	#16
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,336	All the advertising on GFY has definitely turned me off. I would rather see adult affiliate programs spend their money more wisely on their affiliates rather than on skinning. Or a post about an affiliate program without all the reps chiming in because they really don't know much as I do. I am in the biz already 9 years deep. Can't complain and GFY will still be a force. __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

06-08-2008, 10:18 AM	#18
DatingGold $6 PER EMAIL JOiN Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 13,185	Once traffic gets lower, advertisers will start dropping off. Then they will care and by then it's probably too late. I noticed it was alot slower than it used to be last night. Threads weren't moving at all. __________________ 9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions! ADULT DATING - $100 PPS LIVE CAMS - $214 PPS WWW.DATINGGOLD.COM ICQ: 27442303

06-08-2008, 10:24 AM	#19
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	Looks like people are doing biz all day long __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

06-08-2008, 10:38 AM	#21
Miguel T ♦ Web Developer ♦ Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Full-Stack Developer Posts: 12,472	The problem is the tube sites. __________________ Full Stack Webdeveloper: HTML5/CSS3, jQuery, AJAX, ElevatedX, NATS, MechBunny, Wordpress

06-08-2008, 10:42 AM	#23
Jim_Gunn Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Where The Teens Are Posts: 5,702	There is still a lot of industry people posting here and some business to be done, although there are a whole crew of wing nuts that I have no clue who they are or what they do also.

06-08-2008, 10:46 AM	#24
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	It's what happens when they fail to moderate the board. Instead of kicking out the useless trolls they let the tolls run off all the legit people. __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

06-08-2008, 11:45 AM	#26
nikki99 Supermodel Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sodoma & Gomorra Posts: 22,895	I blame tube sites too __________________ SMC Revenue - Best Tgirl websites of the world now VR Non exclusive BIG Tranny/shemale Package for sale, full 2257 - hit me up skype: nikkimontero

06-08-2008, 12:06 PM	#30
Tuga Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal Posts: 7,678	Alexa changed the way it works recently and penalized webmaster sites because it's a lot more likely webmasters have the toolbar installed. That's the only reason GFY was so high on the ranks anyway. __________________ Go Fuck Yourself! ICQ 101411627

06-08-2008, 01:59 PM	#35
Ron Bennett Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,653	Alexa stats are a very rough estimate, and not necessarily reflective of any reality. With that said, GFY posting activity appears to be much less than it used to be - less new threads; not moving down as fast. While there are many reasons for the GFY slowdown, the biggest, in my view, is the excitement is gone - several years ago, on-line adult was the hot money making thing in which anyone with an internet connection and some free time could earn lots of $$$. Those days are gone, and hence so are many of those type of folks. On-line adult business has not only changed considerably, but has consolidated quite a bit with many folks selling out to rivals, mergers of companies, etc. GFY should either become smaller and more focused to productive folks in the adult business; perhaps becomes members only. Or go the other direction and branch out into mainstream ... GFY owns gfy.com, so they could potentially brand the acronym to mean something else or even nothing; develop and promote another site here for discussion / promotion of mainstream programs. Bottom line, as many have mentioned already, GFY should do something or otherwise risk these forums becoming irrelevant / obsolete in the near future. Ron __________________ Domagon - Website Management and Domain Name Sales

06-08-2008, 02:16 PM	#38
the Shemp congrats to the winners Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Echo Beach Posts: 10,891	too much free porn .... __________________ i use Vacares...so should you Submit your picture galleries to my site...Outlaw TGP

06-08-2008, 03:04 PM	#43
qxm Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NoHo Posts: 5,970	the board is having less traffic? .... interesting, I find this to be good news .... __________________ ICQ: 266990876

06-08-2008, 04:21 PM	#49
papill0n Unregistered Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 15,547	they need to install the duplicate ip hack

06-08-2008, 04:26 PM	#50
Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life (felis madjewicus) Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In Mom & Dad's Basement Posts: 20,368	the ridiculous banner stuffing and nonstop sponsored themes are surely annoying. i know it send me towards other forums. i still come back, but i'm sure it has pushed at least a few people away completely. the lack of moderation is surely another key point affecting it. just wacth, and as traffic drops, and advertisers car eless and less to buy those $25k spots, they will care even less to moderate this shithole...