How high does gas how to go before the government has to subsidize it at the pump?

[tony286]

I was thinking about this today, gas goes 7 -8 bucks a gallon. People wont make enough to cover the basics. Now for most of us this isn't a problem but there are alot more making less.The median income in this country is 48k. I was thinking if you say well they will have to be paid more, than cost of goods go way up and people cant buy again.
Will the government have to subsidize gas at the pump til there are truly viable energy options for the general public? Your thoughts?

[crockett]

They would give incentives to buy fuel efficient cars b4 they would subsidize fuel.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by crockett

They would give incentives to buy fuel efficient cars b4 they would subsidize fuel.

That doesnt help someone making 10 bucks an hour. I was sitting at a stoplight by a busy intersection and I started looking at all the places of business in the area. The avg employee probably makes 8-9 bucks a hour.I was thinking how are these people going to function? Where I live we have shit public transportation.

[Sosa]

if they cared they would have done something by now.

[crockett]

They don't care about someone making $10/hr. The Govt subsidizes the rich not the poor, same reason people were getting those big ass tax cuts when buying $50k hummers.

[brandonstills]

I doubt the gov't would do that. I was living in Russia and watched the Ruble go from 6 Rubles to the dollar to 28. Almost 500% inflation in 2 years. Most people's incomes did not go up, most of them stayed the same. This is nowhere near as bad as that.

More likely people will change their lives. Have you seen the movie The End of Suburbia? I think they make a lot of good points. People will simply arrange their lives so they drive less.

Most likely the problem will be solved/mitigated by cleaner more efficient technologies. Better efficiency, electric/hybrid, solar for recharging, etc.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by tony404

That doesnt help someone making 10 bucks an hour. I was sitting at a stoplight by a busy intersection and I started looking at all the places of business in the area. The avg employee probably makes 8-9 bucks a hour.I was thinking how are these people going to function? Where I live we have shit public transportation.

Listen it's supply and demand. If the government say had price controls and said gas couldn't be over $2 a gallon no one would reduce their useage or buy better fuel efficient cars. This would reduce the supply even faster and eventually you have shortages and rationing and long lines. And if you think this can't happen you wern't around in the 1970's

the optimal thing is to have cars that don't run on gas. This is along way off. It'll be at least 25 years before you have say 80% of the cars on the road using cars that don't use any gas. I will be at least 15 years before you get 80% of the cars on the road being hybrids, electric or other non gas using cars.

[IllTestYourGirls]

if people believe the bullshit line that it is supply and demand why the hell would anyone want to subsidize??? Are you trying to bankrupt the fucking country?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

if people believe the bullshit line that it is supply and demand why the hell would anyone want to subsidize??? Are you trying to bankrupt the fucking country?

I dont believe its supply and demand.

[bhutocracy]

Nah fuel subsidies should never be considered... Besides distorting market signals given that the US will probably never introduce a carbon tax on gas, high prices will just have to do.

It would be better to put the trillion dollars a subsidy would cost into public transport infrastructure. And really given the capital expense of trains etc The first stop should probably be an ass load of buses.

[After Shock Media]

The median household income stats are BS anyways and very inflated. Also Tony you should check the state minimum wage charts. $10.00 an hour is lucky for many.

[Evil Chris]

They have subsidized for decades already, and continue to.
If they didn't we'd have been paying these prices years ago just like in the EU.

[96ukssob]

gov't wont subsidize fuel because it isnt a necessity, unlike housing. you can use public transportation, its available and inexpensive. sure it sucks and most of the people on the buses smell, but its an OPTION. They have more than likely put a price ceiling and even floors (to minimize monopolies) on fuel costs, but wont go much further than that.

i think the gov't not stepping in to lower fuel costs is hurting the economy even worse. people arent traveling because the price of gas is so high, therefore, many areas like the beaches have to raise rates to cover the loss and all that does is drive people away that could normally afford it, to not be able to with the increase in gas + hotel rates.

some families have a set budget for vacations and other things, so when the rates go up for theme parks, hotels, and other stuff, they cant spend the money and just keep it in their savings account where they earn less interest per year than the inflation of a dollar.

IMO, this is doing nothing but segregating the social economic classes even further apart.

[woj]

Is it really necessary to bitch about gas prices every single day? even if it goes to $10/gallon, people will carpool, take a bike to work, take public transportation, they'll improvise and they will make it work...

[GetSCORECash]

$10.00 an hour?

You need to work the night shift at McDonalds to make $7.00 an hour. Assistant Nurses, make 7.25 an hour, with benifits. $8.00 if they have been working at a hospital for a while.

Day Care workers, make less then $10.00. Security Guards, SuperMarket Cashiers, the list goes on and on of people who earn $7.00 or less. These people are not able to pay $4.00 a gallon of gas.

They will soon need to apply for government assistance to survive.

I'm sure they may pay a bit more outside of South Florida, but not that much for these types of jobs.

[Elli]

I don't think they should subsidize fuel. Food stamps, sure. Low cost housing, sure. But fuel? SHould the government pay because you'd rather live 25 miles away from your job instead of within cycling distance?

[bringer]

http://environment.about.com/od/foss...streetcars.htm

[cognitos]

If you sell something that everyone wants, then the price will go up. Simple economics.

The biggest threat to the US consumer is not the market price of oil -- but the currency used to purchase it. If Iran were to change all of it's oil sales to the Euro, which they may well do -- then the devaluation of the USD would be quite large. If Venezuela were to do the same, it would be good night Vienna for the greenback. The only reason the dollar is kept at it's artificially high level is because there is such demand for it for petro chemical transactions. Iran made $70Bn in oil sales from March 07 to March 08. Venezuela's sales wer in the region of $100Bn. Remove the need for about $170Bn USD from the global money markets, and you will start to see super-inflation in the US, coupled with a devaluation of the USD. The cost of a gallon of oil would go up even further. As more countries needed more USD to buy oil, they would change to the Euro which would compound the problem creating even further devaluation and higher inflation.

Much of the above explains why American governments are so keen to have the governments of Iran and Venezuela removed. The last straw for Saddam in Iraq was his decision to change oil exports to the Euro. It is better to have total chaos and endless war in Baghdad, Tehran, Caracas than to lose the petro dollar.

[nosey]

[tony286]

Originally Posted by SCORE-Cash

$10.00 an hour?

You need to work the night shift at McDonalds to make $7.00 an hour. Assistant Nurses, make 7.25 an hour, with benifits. $8.00 if they have been working at a hospital for a while.

Day Care workers, make less then $10.00. Security Guards, SuperMarket Cashiers, the list goes on and on of people who earn $7.00 or less. These people are not able to pay $4.00 a gallon of gas.

They will soon need to apply for government assistance to survive.

I'm sure they may pay a bit more outside of South Florida, but not that much for these types of jobs.

I agree, we are going to have to pay one way or another. Also use public transportation sounds good but alot of places simply dont have it. In NYC if you knew the subways and buses you could get very close to where you wanted to go in the 5 boroughs. In atlanta alot of places you dont have a car, you are fucked. The reason they live there is its cheaper to live. Where my wife is from in WI, again you dont drive you are fucked.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Elli

I don't think they should subsidize fuel. Food stamps, sure. Low cost housing, sure. But fuel? SHould the government pay because you'd rather live 25 miles away from your job instead of within cycling distance?

Usually it costs much more to live closer to work. You're going to tell all those people your fucked? Desperate broke people that's the seeds of revolution.

[bringer]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...pStories_ssi_5
interesting.

Originally Posted by Elli

I don't think they should subsidize fuel. Food stamps, sure. Low cost housing, sure. But fuel? SHould the government pay because you'd rather live 25 miles away from your job instead of within cycling distance?

If people live in large cities, than living near their job often isn't an option, as housing near city hubs are much more expensive. Sure a lot of the wealthy live in the suburbs for views of cities, etc... but a lot of families are unable to live in the city due to costs. Also, crime can play an important factor as well. In Canada, it might be safe for a woman or child to walk to the store or anywhere else, but in a city like Vegas or LA, it's not for the most part.

There are many factors when a person chooses to live in the suburbs, and it's not often always because that was their ideal situation.

[seeric]

will never happen.

it would only be fair though. we subsidize their bullshit wars, hookers at political conventions, expensive trips to exotic islands for "morale and welfare", etc etc.

seems it would be a fair trade.

not gonna happen though.

[fuzebox]

By "subsidize" you mean "tax it less" right?