Why selling porn has never been harder.

[Paul Markham]

I was having dinner with a veteran porn producer who maintains people will jerk off to anything. Like me he started shooting porn when the consumers choice was very limited and people would jerk off to anything they could find.

Todays porn consumer is spoilt for choice. Never before has there been so many options to satisfy their demand. They can go to thousands of paysites, freesites, Tubes and Torrents to satisfy their need. There are forums where they talk and debate over their favourite niche, star, porn, etc. They can go to Tube sites where thousands of viewers score the scenes so the best is at the top. There has never been a bigger supply of porn and never been a more knowledgeable consumer of porn. Especially the guys who buy. These are the experts we have to sell to.

Get it wrong and they will not buy, con them into buying and they will form the opinion that paying for porn is not a wise move. Many have already done that.

This business is under attack from the inside, we have pissed off the very people we rely on for our income. Those that buy porn. Today they don't have to take what we dish out. Nothing like it was in the past. From 1977 to 1990 they bought anything they could get their hands on. On the Internet up until 2000 they bought anything they could find. 2008 is a lot tougher, shooting and selling porn has never been tougher.

[Paul Markham]

Now you can all start telling me how wrong and clueless I am. Just look at the Alexa stats on any site and then on the Tube sites.

[fuzzylogic]

now who's gonna be the first to find a new way to push or market porn to the masses?

[Martin]

Hey Paul, how many other programs do you promote besides your own?

[bloggingseo]

His threads are usually not worth reading..

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Martin

Hey Paul, how many other programs do you promote besides your own?

There are some very very good sites and we all know them. I'm generalising and it's foolish to say the industry is supplying the customer well because 10% of the sites do. You might think it's 20$ and others might think it's 5%. The problem is not what we think. it's what the guy with his credit card thinks that really matters.

This market sells a highly consumable product. We are all reliant on each other for the opinion the buying consumer has of us overall.

Replies from people like bloggingseo show the problem. Say nothing and no point in reading them. Pity is if he had anything to contribute he should. Was porn easier to get in 1988 than 2008, was the porn consumer then spoilt for choice and he's not now, was he more knowledgeable than todays consumer?

Come on bloggingseo where did I get it wrong?

[eMonk]

sounds like you need to switch your game up.

[Shamus McFamous]

Originally Posted by bloggingseo

His threads are usually not worth reading..

His threads are always an exercise in futility. He's the only guy who can write a 3-4 paragraph post that doesn't say anything.

Paul... really. I hope you didn't just have this epiphany. You have been planning for this day for a long time correct? If not let me say you are "clueless"

[d-null]

you are right though, things have changed alot from the days when teenage guys would try to find a girlie mag or maybe a place that would sell them one as they got older to nowadays where nearly every high school and college kid has seen 2girls1cup and pretty much anything else there is to stumble across on the net before they've even gotten out of school and thought about spending any money on anything like that.

[the content guy]

eMonk, that shaking vagina is still disgusting.

Paul, I agree and disagree with you at the same time. True, back in 1997 I could sell shit content on a stick and everybody bought. In todays market you have two separate groups, those who pay and those who don't. In summary, the free surfers will get off on the tube sites and paysite tour pages, the other zillion porn addicts will continue to sign up with their respective niche sites, and NICHE is the key word. As long as you can provide fresh niche content you will never be at a lack for consumers. Amen.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I was having dinner with a veteran porn producer who maintains people will jerk off to anything. Like me he started shooting porn when the consumers choice was very limited and people would jerk off to anything they could find.

Todays porn consumer is spoilt for choice. Never before has there been so many options to satisfy their demand. They can go to thousands of paysites, freesites, Tubes and Torrents to satisfy their need. There are forums where they talk and debate over their favourite niche, star, porn, etc. They can go to Tube sites where thousands of viewers score the scenes so the best is at the top. There has never been a bigger supply of porn and never been a more knowledgeable consumer of porn. Especially the guys who buy. These are the experts we have to sell to.

Get it wrong and they will not buy, con them into buying and they will form the opinion that paying for porn is not a wise move. Many have already done that.

This business is under attack from the inside, we have pissed off the very people we rely on for our income. Those that buy porn. Today they don't have to take what we dish out. Nothing like it was in the past. From 1977 to 1990 they bought anything they could get their hands on. On the Internet up until 2000 they bought anything they could find. 2008 is a lot tougher, shooting and selling porn has never been tougher.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Now you can all start telling me how wrong and clueless I am. Just look at the Alexa stats on any site and then on the Tube sites.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There are some very very good sites and we all know them. I'm generalising and it's foolish to say the industry is supplying the customer well because 10% of the sites do. You might think it's 20$ and others might think it's 5%. The problem is not what we think. it's what the guy with his credit card thinks that really matters.

This market sells a highly consumable product. We are all reliant on each other for the opinion the buying consumer has of us overall.

Replies from people like bloggingseo show the problem. Say nothing and no point in reading them. Pity is if he had anything to contribute he should. Was porn easier to get in 1988 than 2008, was the porn consumer then spoilt for choice and he's not now, was he more knowledgeable than todays consumer?

Come on bloggingseo where did I get it wrong?

STFU...you win already!!!



ADG

[StickyGreen]

The restaurant at the end of the universe is the shit...

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

its obvious why its a difficult sell now, its not one reason, its a multitude.

[papill0n]

So many words so little meaning.

[Penny24Seven]

you could have wrote this thread 5 years ago and just took out the tube part LOL

[CunningStunt]

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben

So many words so little meaning.

This gig has been getting progressively harder every year.

As many say on here, adapt or die.

You're still here mark, so am I, so are others. We must be doing something right, other than that blogseo twat who obvously works in macdonalds or something and has no websites.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by jetjet

you are right though, things have changed alot from the days when teenage guys would try to find a girlie mag or maybe a place that would sell them one as they got older to nowadays where nearly every high school and college kid has seen 2girls1cup and pretty much anything else there is to stumble across on the net before they've even gotten out of school and thought about spending any money on anything like that.

Yes today kids of 15 who don't have credit cards, will jerk off to anything and think the Internet is a free resource they can do anything on teaches them what is good porn and what is bad porn. Those who are interested in porn.

We need to either close down the access to free porn or rethink our marketing.

Paul, I agree and disagree with you at the same time. True, back in 1997 I could sell shit content on a stick and everybody bought. In todays market you have two separate groups, those who pay and those who don't. In summary, the free surfers will get off on the tube sites and paysite tour pages, the other zillion porn addicts will continue to sign up with their respective niche sites, and NICHE is the key word. As long as you can provide fresh niche content you will never be at a lack for consumers. Amen.

Agreed 66%. LOL

Three groups. Those who will pay, those who will not pay and those who did pay and would pay again if we win them back. Do this and you effect the profitability of the guys who are hurting us.

You also need to change it to QUALITY NICHE is the key word. So many think that if they put a girl in socks and pigtails they have a teen site. The problem is none of those are guys buying porn. So many still think this business is about sending traffic to a site filled with content that anyone can shoot. It was back in the old days.

Yes it was so easy in 1980.

[QUOTE=RageCash-Ben So many words so little meaning.[/QUOTE]

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben

So many words so little meaning.

So few words and so little to say. Didn't you sell to hahaha?

Originally Posted by Brian837

you could have wrote this thread 5 years ago and just took out the tube part LOL

Then why did we not take notice?

[papill0n]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So few words and so little to say. Didn't you sell to hahaha?

You are boring and an imbecile.

[fris]

crazy old man didnt take his meds tonight

[biskoppen]

The ones to blame is the programs who buys their traffic and the big programs who's content is used on the tube sites but they're too fucking lazy to do something about

[faxxaff]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I was having dinner with a veteran porn producer who maintains people will jerk off to anything. Like me he started shooting porn when the consumers choice was very limited and people would jerk off to anything they could find.

Todays porn consumer is spoilt for choice. Never before has there been so many options to satisfy their demand. They can go to thousands of paysites, freesites, Tubes and Torrents to satisfy their need. There are forums where they talk and debate over their favourite niche, star, porn, etc. They can go to Tube sites where thousands of viewers score the scenes so the best is at the top. There has never been a bigger supply of porn and never been a more knowledgeable consumer of porn. Especially the guys who buy. These are the experts we have to sell to.

Get it wrong and they will not buy, con them into buying and they will form the opinion that paying for porn is not a wise move. Many have already done that.

This business is under attack from the inside, we have pissed off the very people we rely on for our income. Those that buy porn. Today they don't have to take what we dish out. Nothing like it was in the past. From 1977 to 1990 they bought anything they could get their hands on. On the Internet up until 2000 they bought anything they could find. 2008 is a lot tougher, shooting and selling porn has never been tougher.

I disagree respectfully. Selling porn today is much easier than it has ever been. The internet is growing so every day more and more people have access to porn who have never had before. Production costs have gone way down due to technical innovation. No more film that needs to be developed and no more need to invest 100k$ in a drum scanner to get good scans. All you need is a internet server and some equipment to start publishing a website and make money.

Let's look back 20 years:

.... film and photo equipment was much more expensive than today!
.... processing and scanning was expensive!
.... production like printing of magazines or post production of movies was expensive!
.... distribution was expensive. retail sex shops and newsstands together with wholesale would take 50% of a product.

Looks like porn production was a hobby for rich people not to long ago ....and very difficult to break into for newbies.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by bloggingseo

His threads are usually not worth reading..

show us some intresting threads you have posted.

[john_63]

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben

You are boring and an imbecile.

And you could not run your own site so sold it to hahaha. That says a lot. You have a big mouth flaming me, but it seems you're not so bright. I'm still running sites and expending them.

I disagree respectfully. Selling porn today is much easier than it has ever been. The internet is growing so every day more and more people have access to porn who have never had before. Production costs have gone way down due to technical innovation. No more film that needs to be developed and no more need to invest 100k$ in a drum scanner to get good scans. All you need is a internet server and some equipment to start publishing a website and make money.

Let's look back 20 years:

.... film and photo equipment was much more expensive than today!
.... processing and scanning was expensive!
.... production like printing of magazines or post production of movies was expensive!
.... distribution was expensive. retail sex shops and newsstands together with wholesale would take 50% of a product.

Looks like porn production was a hobby for rich people not to long ago ....and very difficult to break into for newbies.

With respect. *kisses* I was talking about SELLING you're talking about producing. All the things you listed made it harder to produce, which made it easier to sell. Production is easier, selling is tougher.

Let's look back 20 years:

[I].... film and photo equipment was much more expensive than today!
.... processing and scanning was expensive!
.... production like printing of magazines or post production of movies was expensive![/i}
Which kept the idiots out who thought it was point and shoot.
If you could produce it the money was good and it was easy to sell.

.... distribution was expensive. retail sex shops and newsstands together with wholesale would take 50% of a product.

On magazine the retail took way more than 50% a lot more. The money for the publishers was in advertising and it was real money. A magazine was in profit before it was even thought about by the editor. The prebooked advertising space had put it in profit. I know I used to advertise with them.

Most of the time everything everyone posts is from their own experiences, skills and knowledge. I found production a bit of a stumbling block and was never a good photographer. I'm a pornographer. Others will have different experiences, skills and knowledge and see the situation differently.

[xmas13]

Value finds buyers. ))

[xmas13]

Too many people want to produce money not value, losing their competitive edge and going bankrupt in the process.

[xmas13]

Anyway, for starters, learn how to run a small business.

http://search.smallbusinessschool.org/

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by xmas13

Too many people want to produce money not value, losing their competitive edge and going bankrupt in the process.

Very true. A lot of the people who came to porn see it as easy. It was in the 70s to 90s if you could produce it and risk a knock on the door from Mr Plod.

[wyldblyss]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We need to either close down the access to free porn or rethink our marketing.

Ok, you first. Make sure all your webmasters don't get free content to promote your site. Take all nudity off your tour and FHG's etc. Then take back all of the tube content you have been giving away to tube sites. Then in 6 months come back and tell us how you alone have changed the way people surf for porn.

Really Paul, you talk about taking away access to fee porn like it is possible. It is NOT possible, so stop whining about it and adapt to it. It is like world peace, people think it is a very nice idea, but not everyone cooperates.

[Bhunter]

This whole thread makes no sence.

So many words, so little deeds.

[xentech]

I simply cannot compete with those magic join links.

[RayVega]

First of all, those of you who are flaming Paul for starting a conversation regarding a valid point about this industry should be ashamed of yourselves. Here's a guy who has been around for a long time. Agree or disagree, but for christ's sake show some respect. You guys show little intelligence and self respect by foolishly attacking a veteran in the biz. If you don't like his posts, get the hell out of the thread.

With that said, I think we all agree that the problem is that as technology advances, and the barrier of entry into the business is lowered, the market becomes saturated. When a market becomes saturated, prices drop and in this case the bottom end is free. Let's face it, the days of making money by putting porn (even high quality porn) on a webpage and charging for it are over. In my opinion, Porn must be unique for people to pay for it. It's only common sense that if people can get decent quality for free, they won't pay.

The only thing I can see safely selling into the future are the hardest sites to manage and to successfully create...solo girls sites, here's why. You have a model exclusive to you, People cannot see her anywhere else. You promote her as a personality, it's about the girl, not the act she's doing. You need to make people fall in love with her. Make her their virtual girlfriend. The reason people go see movies with Robert Denaro is that they cannot see him anywhere else and they like HIM. Tube sites and blogs are only trendy delivery systems for the same old porn and they fizzle out relatively quickly. And let's stop throwing the same old porn at different distribution outlets too, nobody is jerking off to their cell phone or ipod...it's still the same old porn.

Other than promoting a particular model, I don't see any niche that is safe forever. Even the reality model got tired and there are a million bangbus copies. Mixing entertainment with porn is one way, but let's face it, people buy porn because they want to jerk off, not laugh.

I say this from fifteen years of leadership and M & A work, and I've had to evaluate company models and industry trends many many times. The only type of porn I see lasting and continuing to be profitable is the FTV model, and that's if they present their girls with personality so they are not just another hot chick because they are a dime a dozen too. The moral of the story is that knowledge, money, and/or drive is not enough anymore, you have to be lucky enough to discover At least that it's my opinion.

[Shamus McFamous]

Originally Posted by RayVega

First of all, those of you who are flaming Paul for starting a conversation regarding a valid point about this industry should be ashamed of yourselves. Here's a guy who has been ....nough to discover At least that it's my opinion.

Paul's posts are akin to him being at the scene of a fire and running up to a fireman yelling there is a fire as the fireman is trying to put it out, all the while wearing a tshirt with his company name printed on it in case a camera crews happens to catch him in frame.

Pointless and dumb.

He gets no respect from me because he has been caught lying (magic join links) and his posts are quite often rantings regarding the obvious with no real substance or blatant spam covered up as a "news" or "informational" posts that also say nothing.

[Violetta]

the web is constantly changing!

[pornguy]

Ray Great post, and I agree with what you are saying.

Paul. Nice work. I know, as you know that a lot of what you are talking about us old news, but it is something that has not been solved, and it needs to be discussed.

FOr those of us that want to make more than a few sales a day, this is a topic that will be beat with a stick for a long time.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by Shamus McFamous

Paul's posts are akin to him being at the scene of a fire and running up to a fireman yelling there is a fire as the fireman is trying to put it out, all the while wearing a tshirt with his company name printed on it in case a camera crews happens to catch him in frame.

Pointless and dumb.

He gets no respect from me because he has been caught lying (magic join links) and his posts are quite often rantings regarding the obvious with no real substance or blatant spam covered up as a "news" or "informational" posts that also say nothing.

I totally respect your opinion. My point was simply that attacking a guy who brings a valid point (regardless of it's redundancy) just seems to be a bit of a poor reflection of the writer.

[Agent 488]

all media is going through the same upheaval and transitions. it puzzles me why the porn industry thinks it is somehow unique.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by Bhunter

This whole thread makes no sence.

So many words, so little deeds.

you my sir will never make it.

[BradM]

If everyone had magic join links things would be easy for them like they are for you.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

The restaurant at the end of the universe is the shit...

...

[DWB]

I am a producer / webmaster, and I am also (was) a porn consumer. I no longer pay for porn. I don't need to.

RedTube.com, YourFileHost.com and a few others give me all the free and daily updated porn I need.

It's a shame, and as a producer I know this is not a good state of the industry, but free porn is free porn. It doesn't even have to be high quality. In fact, the more amateur the better for me.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Rockatansky

the web is constantly changing!

Its not just the web.

[emjay]

Originally Posted by RageCash-Ben

So many words so little meaning.