Ghost Cash / Butterfly Bucks / CCBill - What's up? - GoFuckYourself.com

Socks · 07-16-2008, 11:40 AM

The billing madness continues.. I'm not quite sure what's happening here, no drama, just wanna understand what's going on.

http://www.thainee.com/join/

Says $29.95 you charge for monthly memberships in the design. I double checked with Tussinee, same price.

I click the top link, and it wants to charge me $32.95 Canadian. So I click the US Flag, and it wants to charge me $31.24 USD, not $29.95.

My reviewer is from Europe, and on his join page in USD it says $45.38 USD!!

Looks like it's $29.95 in EUROS if you're from Europe, and if you want to pay in USD, you have to pay $45.38?

So a few things..

1> Is the price $29.95 or $31.24?
2> Why are European customers getting gauged this way?

Note: $100 USD is worth $99.77 today I saw, so Canadians are getting screwed too ($32.95 VS $31.24), customer gets billed more, and none of us see a penny of this extra money btw.

cybermike · 07-16-2008, 01:23 PM

Looks like they need to fix their design.. but of course you will see the extra money.. I see regional billing income all the time

Socks · 07-16-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybermike

Looks like they need to fix their design.. but of course you will see the extra money.. I see regional billing income all the time

Sure, I'm not concerned about the extra bit coming to me, I'm more concerned about what's happening with their euro traffic? Why should a european customer pay 50% more for the same product?

And why would they? They're not stupid, they know their money is worth more right now, so this must be driving away europeans in droves?

commonsense · 07-16-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

Sure, I'm not concerned about the extra bit coming to me, I'm more concerned about what's happening with their euro traffic? Why should a european customer pay 50% more for the same product?

And why would they? They're not stupid, they know their money is worth more right now, so this must be driving away europeans in droves?

Sounds like the regional billing is working EXACTLY like it should be. They should change that pre join page but doubt it's slowing down EU customers in the slightest. I don't see a change in my stats for them, except making more money on some sales

commonsense · 07-16-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

Sure, I'm not concerned about the extra bit coming to me, I'm more concerned about what's happening with their euro traffic? Why should a european customer pay 50% more for the same product?

And why would they? They're not stupid, they know their money is worth more right now, so this must be driving away europeans in droves?

is this this the first time you've seen regional billing?

Horny Alf · 07-16-2008, 01:46 PM

Yes, we are currently using CCBill's regional pricing. CCBill shows certain area's payment options in their own currency, as you noted CA and EU are part of this plan. Since we implemented the regional pricing our sales have increased in those regions. As an affiliate you will benefit from these sales as you still get 50% of the final sale and rebills in the amount that CCBill collects.

heymatty · 07-16-2008, 01:48 PM

I love regional billing

Socks · 07-16-2008, 01:50 PM

Commonsense, be honest...

It's a CCBill program, did you seriously just login to CCBill, find them in your list, do a massive date range, and compare years to figure out your stats for them? hehe

If you did, thanks.. But I doubt it!

And maybe you're right, maybe Europeans are clueless, never watch the news, are swimming in money and haven't noticed the same thing they used to buy now costs 50% more (when they should be getting a deal)..

Arrr? I don't understand why european customers are being taxed, and how it can be good for business?

If the logic is that 35% of people will care and not buy, but 65% either won't notice or won't care and still buy at 50% more, and in the end we're making more money... Then doesn't the same logic apply to all countries?

Horny Alf · 07-16-2008, 01:56 PM

Also most sales for EU carry a 19% VAT ( Value Added Tax ) so EU customers are happy to pay more if they are not paying the VAT.

commonsense · 07-16-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

Commonsense, be honest...

It's a CCBill program, did you seriously just login to CCBill, find them in your list, do a massive date range, and compare years to figure out your stats for them? hehe

If you did, thanks.. But I doubt it!

I don't need to log in to the ccbill admin to know that, the email with the larger amounts are enough.

commonsense · 07-16-2008, 01:59 PM

It doesn't cost them 50% more, unless they base their normal everyday life on the dollar. There have been no less than 100 threads on GFY about regional billing, what it is, programs announcing it etc. Fuck, didn't you start one 3 days ago asking everyone to add it?

Socks · 07-16-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

is this this the first time you've seen regional billing?

No, I even have a billing site with regional billing on, so I see sales come in in Euros, CAD, etc etc.. But it's the first time I've seen vastly different rates for different countries/zones

So now as a review site, how am I supposed to tell my customers how much a site costs? I guess I need to check all CCBill sites with a European proxy or something? Ugh

commonsense · 07-16-2008, 02:05 PM

Sorry it wasn't you.. it was someone named 'sortie'

http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/840927-suggest-log-ccbill-click-yes.html

Socks · 07-16-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horny Alf

Also most sales for EU carry a 19% VAT ( Value Added Tax ) so EU customers are happy to pay more if they are not paying the VAT.

Interesting point..

As for the US prices, is the design just not reflective of a change in price on your sites?

commonsense · 07-16-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

No, I even have a billing site with regional billing on, so I see sales come in in Euros, CAD, etc etc.. But it's the first time I've seen vastly different rates for different countries/zones

So now as a review site, how am I supposed to tell my customers how much a site costs? I guess I need to check all CCBill sites with a European proxy or something? Ugh

Yeah you're right, it does fuck things up for reviewers... unless there's something to geo target the price on the review as well

Socks · 07-16-2008, 02:08 PM

Anyways people I'm not bitching moaning whining none of it.. I had a simple issue here.. My reviewer was trying to get something done, and we write our prices in US Dollars. He is from Europe, and so I told him to click the US flag to get the US rates. He clicked it, and it said $45.. Since the design didn't match, and what I see is different from he sees, it was a bit of confusion.

I'm still not convinced all this regional billing stuff is such great news for webmasters. I think we're getting bamboozled honestly.

Even Ron from CCBill doesn't know where the extras in currency conversion go, and it can be upwards of 5%.. Customer gets charged 5% more, and we don't get any of that 5%.. CCBill says they get none of the 5% either, that "banks in the middle" get it.. Maybe, but it's far from proof. And since it makes the price of the memberships go UP, that can only drive people away. I don't see how anyone could argue against that fact.

Horny Alf · 07-16-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

Interesting point..

As for the US prices, is the design just not reflective of a change in price on your sites?

Thanks for pointing that out, when we implemented the regional billing we did not see a change in sales and did not think to change the join page to reflect regional billing. We will sort that out right away.

The Ghost · 07-16-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

Anyways people I'm not bitching moaning whining none of it.. I had a simple issue here.. My reviewer was trying to get something done, and we write our prices in US Dollars. He is from Europe, and so I told him to click the US flag to get the US rates. He clicked it, and it said $45.. Since the design didn't match, and what I see is different from he sees, it was a bit of confusion.

I'm still not convinced all this regional billing stuff is such great news for webmasters. I think we're getting bamboozled honestly.

Even Ron from CCBill doesn't know where the extras in currency conversion go, and it can be upwards of 5%.. Customer gets charged 5% more, and we don't get any of that 5%.. CCBill says they get none of the 5% either, that "banks in the middle" get it.. Maybe, but it's far from proof. And since it makes the price of the memberships go UP, that can only drive people away. I don't see how anyone could argue against that fact.

In my experience as I've raised prices sales have increased. With exclusive niched sites it's totally possible. I'd imagine guys would pay $50 a month easy to watch Thainee get pounded.

Socks · 07-16-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ghost

In my experience as I've raised prices sales have increased. With exclusive niched sites it's totally possible. I'd imagine guys would pay $50 a month easy to watch Thainee get pounded.

I agree, but in the sentence you bolded, I'm talking about the banks or ccbill raising your prices, not you!!! :P

If affects you more than me!

Re-read carefully.

Hey to clear this up, since I'm from Canada..

Is the price actually $29.95 still in USD?

I used to be able to click the US flag, and get the actual US price.. Since I'm seeing $31.24 I have to assume that's not your new price..

So you have regional billing PLUS something else.. What is the something else that makes the Euros pay more, and the Canadians pay more etc, but not be able to pay in real US dollars?

Horny Alf · 07-16-2008, 02:28 PM

Yes the USD price is $29.95.

The areas that are affected by regional billing are:
U.K.
Japan
Europe
Canada
Australia

anyone in those areas will see 29.95 in THEIR currency

Socks · 07-16-2008, 02:35 PM

Ok this is officially one of the scariest things I've ever encountered in adult.. I can't even see US prices from Canada.. I have no idea what any CCBill site is charging anymore in the rates I record on my review sites.

I now need a US proxy.

Also I feel like if I don't explain this to my customers, I'm not being honest with them, and not doing my job as a review site owner.

Furthermore, today the USD and CAD are pretty much even. CCBill says $32.95 on a $29.95 membership.

That's THREE DOLLARS.

TEN PERCENT.

Of that $3, you get $0, I get $0.

We can split it and have a sand sandwich together. You bring the bread please.

commonsense · 07-16-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

Ok this is officially one of the scariest things I've ever encountered in adult.. I can't even see US prices from Canada.. I have no idea what any CCBill site is charging anymore in the rates I record on my review sites.

I now need a US proxy.

Also I feel like if I don't explain this to my customers, I'm not being honest with them, and not doing my job as a review site owner.

Furthermore, today the USD and CAD are pretty much even. CCBill says $32.95 on a $29.95 membership.

That's THREE DOLLARS.

TEN PERCENT.

Of that $3, you get $0, I get $0.

We can split it and have a sand sandwich together. You bring the bread please.

The regional billing has been going for a few months. Have you noticed a change in overall sales for ccbill programs? Not everyone is using it btw

Socks · 07-16-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commonsense

The regional billing has been going for a few months. Have you noticed a change in overall sales for ccbill programs? Not everyone is using it btw

If you have an idea on how to isolate this I'd be happy to run some reports there.. We promote probably 500+ sites through CCBill, so it's hard to narrow much down to one thing. Stats go back a long time though, I saw one guy we have has been rebilling for 52 months. ;) I'm not really a statswhore, can't say I've noticed anything, but again I'm not paying much attention.

I'm mostly concerned about the extra $3, which has nothing to do with this site in particular, but CCBill's regional billing in general. Thanks for posting that other thread I'm trying to get through it.

Plus I have no idea how I'm supposed to write the prices now, especially if they're not in a design at all.. tons of sites just link straight to ccbill's pages without mentioning the price.

JamesK · 07-16-2008, 02:56 PM

I think you forget the fact that europeans are used to paying euro's. I honestly believe only the most experienced surfers know that all paysites so far charged USD. I think only a very small percentage will notice it and the extra revenue from the majority of the foreign customers will make up for that.

07-16-2008, 11:40 AM	#1
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Ghost Cash / Butterfly Bucks / CCBill - What's up? The billing madness continues.. I'm not quite sure what's happening here, no drama, just wanna understand what's going on. http://www.thainee.com/join/ Says $29.95 you charge for monthly memberships in the design. I double checked with Tussinee, same price. I click the top link, and it wants to charge me $32.95 Canadian. So I click the US Flag, and it wants to charge me $31.24 USD, not $29.95. My reviewer is from Europe, and on his join page in USD it says $45.38 USD!! Looks like it's $29.95 in EUROS if you're from Europe, and if you want to pay in USD, you have to pay $45.38? So a few things.. 1> Is the price $29.95 or $31.24? 2> Why are European customers getting gauged this way? Note: $100 USD is worth $99.77 today I saw, so Canadians are getting screwed too ($32.95 VS $31.24), customer gets billed more, and none of us see a penny of this extra money btw. Last edited by Socks; 07-16-2008 at 11:41 AM..

07-16-2008, 01:23 PM	#2
cybermike Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ny Posts: 4,113	Looks like they need to fix their design.. but of course you will see the extra money.. I see regional billing income all the time __________________ Hey surfers how about some The Best Porn Sites

07-16-2008, 01:48 PM	#7
heymatty Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scottsdale :) Posts: 2,188	I love regional billing __________________ Cashlantis ~ Black Book Cash

07-16-2008, 02:08 PM	#16
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Anyways people I'm not bitching moaning whining none of it.. I had a simple issue here.. My reviewer was trying to get something done, and we write our prices in US Dollars. He is from Europe, and so I told him to click the US flag to get the US rates. He clicked it, and it said $45.. Since the design didn't match, and what I see is different from he sees, it was a bit of confusion. I'm still not convinced all this regional billing stuff is such great news for webmasters. I think we're getting bamboozled honestly. Even Ron from CCBill doesn't know where the extras in currency conversion go, and it can be upwards of 5%.. Customer gets charged 5% more, and we don't get any of that 5%.. CCBill says they get none of the 5% either, that "banks in the middle" get it.. Maybe, but it's far from proof. And since it makes the price of the memberships go UP, that can only drive people away. I don't see how anyone could argue against that fact. Last edited by Socks; 07-16-2008 at 02:10 PM..

07-16-2008, 02:56 PM	#24
JamesK hi Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 16,731	I think you forget the fact that europeans are used to paying euro's. I honestly believe only the most experienced surfers know that all paysites so far charged USD. I think only a very small percentage will notice it and the extra revenue from the majority of the foreign customers will make up for that. __________________ M3Server - NATS Hosting

07-16-2008, 01:46 PM	#6
Horny Alf Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 863	Yes, we are currently using CCBill's regional pricing. CCBill shows certain area's payment options in their own currency, as you noted CA and EU are part of this plan. Since we implemented the regional pricing our sales have increased in those regions. As an affiliate you will benefit from these sales as you still get 50% of the final sale and rebills in the amount that CCBill collects.

07-16-2008, 01:50 PM	#8
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Commonsense, be honest... It's a CCBill program, did you seriously just login to CCBill, find them in your list, do a massive date range, and compare years to figure out your stats for them? hehe If you did, thanks.. But I doubt it! And maybe you're right, maybe Europeans are clueless, never watch the news, are swimming in money and haven't noticed the same thing they used to buy now costs 50% more (when they should be getting a deal).. Arrr? I don't understand why european customers are being taxed, and how it can be good for business? If the logic is that 35% of people will care and not buy, but 65% either won't notice or won't care and still buy at 50% more, and in the end we're making more money... Then doesn't the same logic apply to all countries?

07-16-2008, 01:56 PM	#9
Horny Alf Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 863	Also most sales for EU carry a 19% VAT ( Value Added Tax ) so EU customers are happy to pay more if they are not paying the VAT.

07-16-2008, 01:59 PM	#11
commonsense So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,790	It doesn't cost them 50% more, unless they base their normal everyday life on the dollar. There have been no less than 100 threads on GFY about regional billing, what it is, programs announcing it etc. Fuck, didn't you start one 3 days ago asking everyone to add it?

07-16-2008, 02:05 PM	#13
commonsense So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,790	Sorry it wasn't you.. it was someone named 'sortie' http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/840927-suggest-log-ccbill-click-yes.html

07-16-2008, 02:28 PM	#20
Horny Alf Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 863	Yes the USD price is $29.95. The areas that are affected by regional billing are: U.K. Japan Europe Canada Australia anyone in those areas will see 29.95 in THEIR currency

07-16-2008, 02:35 PM	#21
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Ok this is officially one of the scariest things I've ever encountered in adult.. I can't even see US prices from Canada.. I have no idea what any CCBill site is charging anymore in the rates I record on my review sites. I now need a US proxy. Also I feel like if I don't explain this to my customers, I'm not being honest with them, and not doing my job as a review site owner. Furthermore, today the USD and CAD are pretty much even. CCBill says $32.95 on a $29.95 membership. That's THREE DOLLARS. TEN PERCENT. Of that $3, you get $0, I get $0. We can split it and have a sand sandwich together. You bring the bread please.