If you truly hate cross sales is this the way to stop them?

[Paul Markham]

And do we have the guts to try it?

The people doing these prechecked cross sales need to stay under the 1% CB limit. Some say they are constantly looking for new merchant accounts. If their CB gets bad then they're in trouble. With the normal rate they're flying close or over the 1%. Which also effects the bank they got a merchant account with.

So here's the idea. We form a group who will search out these sites, join up, let the cross sales go through and when it appears on our bill we complain to the bank and threaten to charge back. With the existing surfers charging back how many will it take to push these sponsors over the edge?

We get the whole charges canceled or charged back. Pointing out to the bank what these sites are doing is going to send up warning flags. They do not want to lose their ability to process a lot more than the sponsor. He can move to another bank, they can't move to another VISA.

OK shoot it down now.

[seeandsee]

Is using prechecked cross sales legal?

[Zyber]

Hi Paul, In theory it sounds like a good idea, but I'm afraid it would also hurt your own relationship with your bank. There is a limit how many times they want to let you chargeback, and you would flag yourself as a highrisk client.

Of course it would be nice if you could only harrash their merchant banks without involving your own bank.. :-)

[kane]

Is it legal to charge something that you know you are going to charge back?

[After Shock Media]

That sort of well sounds illegal. Like collusion or something.

Also why does everyone assume they are close to the CB threshold. I can speak from seeing actual stats as I am sure a few others can that many sites doing pre checks are not close to the 1.5 or 1%. No more so than many sites that do not have them at all.

[klaze]

If I do a chargeback on my visa card it can have a negative affect on me the next time I actually NEED a chargeback..

[GrouchyAdmin]

Well, I hope you never want to be able to live in the US again..

[stickyfingerz]

collusion, fraud, conspiracy to willfully damage someones business...

[Barefootsies]

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So here's the idea. We form a group who will search out these sites, join up, let the cross sales go through and when it appears on our bill we complain to the bank and threaten to charge back. With the existing sur

Amazing,

Originally Posted by seeandsee

Is using prechecked cross sales legal?

Yes.

Originally Posted by kane

Is it legal to charge something that you know you are going to charge back?

Doubt it.

[borked]

I really can't see how a pre-checked cross sale cannot be considered a deceptive practice. The user is joining your site, cos they got to the cc page through your site. If they want access to other sites, they'll tell you by checking the box. Pre-checking is either deceptive or it assumes the user wants access to some other site too.

Why not uncheck, then on cc submit, have a jscript alert asking them if they also want acces to site xyz. ie put the cross sale in their face and make sure they see they have other options... not that any processor offers that, but that is far more un-deceptive.

And prechecked cross sales below the submit button are just down right deceptive. Not sure if people still do that, but grrrr

[DBS.US]

Simple: If you don't like they way they do business, Just don't work with them.

[WiredGuy]

You realize what you're suggesting is credit card fraud? You knowingly are purchasing a service with the intent of charging back, even if you don't use the service, you're committing CC fraud.
WG

[CyberHustler]

[mynameisjim]

You can pretty much chargeback at will, that's my understanding.

Visa couldn't give two shits about issuing a chargeback.

First of all, they make money on it. Why do you think they don't do anything to stop CC fraud? They send out pre-approved applications by the truck load and the best fraud prevention they can think of is those shitty 3 digit codes on the back of each card. When there is fraud, the merchant gets stuck with the bill AND THE CHARGEBACK fee. It's costs Visa nothing, and in facts makes them money.

When I ran a mainstream merchant account, unless I had a fucking videotape of the customer taking delivery of the product, I couldn't fight a chargeback.

One guy actually charged back because my website said "orders are shipped within 24-48 hours". Well, his order arrived in 5 days but he thought it should ARRIVE in 24-48 hours. He did a chargeback, kept the merchandise, and got the refund. AND I PAID THE FEE!!

Plus, Visa doesn't tell you there is a dispute. They tell you there is a chargeback, then if you can't fight it, it becomes official. They don't even let you refund it to avoid the fee.

[Konda]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And do we have the guts to try it?


With the existing surfers charging back how many will it take to push these sponsors over the edge?

Well let's say a sponsor does 200 signups a day on his merchant account. With some banks in the EU you can have 1,5 or even 2% cb ratio (with visa). That means he can have 2-4 chargebacks a day. So you will need to do quite a lot of these to push a sponsor over the edge.

In addition this is illegal and won't work.

Basicall your post/idea is pretty retarded.

[Konda]

Oh and I forgot with most banks in the EU you can have 150 or 200 chargebacks before the chargeback % even counts... If you stay under 150 (visa) or 50 (mastercard) they don't even look at the chargeback % at all.

Also most big sponsors spread their transactions over multiple merchant accounts, so they will never hit these ratio's.

[grumpy]

cross sales are good, just market them properly