Re-post - Anyone else think it may be time for a depression?

[After Shock Media]

I just posted this in one of the automobile threads. "I am starting to welcome the idea of another depression. I am beginning to think it may be the only thing that can reboot the economy and the mindset of many. Yes it would also suck for me, I can swallow my medicine though."

Got me curious so I made this thread. Anyone else getting the same feeling? Do you think we should continue bailouts for the automakers, banks, airlines, etc. Or just let the cards finally land where they must?

PS if you live outside of the US, your thoughts also would matter. It would effect you all as well like it did before. If you are just a typical US hater, or well a conspiracy nut - not sure what to say.

[NinjaSteve]

There's change coming! Didn't you see the Obama speech?

[Mr Pheer]

I'm not feeling depressed.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by NinjaSteve

There's change coming! Didn't you see the Obama speech?

Nothing to do with him. He may help and may be the right leader for such an event anyways. We do need some personal responsibility and willingness to help each other. If we did hit a depression we would need someone that could inspire people anyways.

This really is not a political thread. Would end up with same shit no matter what.

[halfpint]

No i dont think another depression is on the way but I think the UK is going into reccession, We now have more unemployment, more companys filing for liquidation and more people loosing thier houses. I remember the 80's when a similar thing happened but give it a few years and it will sort it self out, it always does.

[Paul Markham]

The world is certainly going into a recession, it might become a depression in time. We've had 40 years of rampant consumerism in the belief that building retail was the right way. Yes building a mall so people can buy coffee makers and shirts made by cheap labor in the Far East is just the way to build an economy.

No it's a way to get the electorate fooled into thinking you're doing it just right so they r- elect you.

I just heard on the news Ford and General Motors are on the brink. How does that feel? You can drive to get your dole money in your cheap imported car made by some low paid worker in the Far East.

But still some believe the people who got us into this crap are the ones we trust to get us out. They will get themselves out of it and fuck the rest of us.

[mynameisjim]

Remember in the early 90's, it was recession time but a few years later the internet boom came and everyone was rich. I worked in an office and 99% of the people were trading stocks when they should of been working. High school drop outs who knew how to load Windows 95 were given cushy IT jobs. Times were great and the government paid off their debts with all the added tax revenue.

Then it busted and everyone thought we were headed for a recession, but the housing boom came. Everyone was flipping houses, their own houses doubled in value and then refinanced and spent the extra cash, even in normal towns houses were up 70%, not to mention the hot areas. Everyone was rich again.

It busted and now here we are. Something else will come along and there will be another boom..............then another bust. It's just the way it is now.

[KillerK]

I think we really need religion at this time, that is the problem.

[2012]

[After Shock Media]

Not predicting one. Just a let shit fall as it must idea.
I realize some of the biggest businesses have come out of very bad financial times.

Guess simple way to put it. Should we let the automakers, and anyone else who requests a bailout just fend for themselves. Even if it would potentially fuck up the economy.

[2012]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Not predicting one. Just a let shit fall as it must idea.
I realize some of the biggest businesses have come out of very bad financial times.

Guess simple way to put it. Should we let the automakers, and anyone else who requests a bailout just fend for themselves. Even if it would potentially fuck up the economy.

Maybe I'm crazy but ... if your business is fucked ... Something better comes along to replace it? What your failing business is replaced with is something that is obviously successful thereby stimulating everyone's fucking economy? Didn't most people learn this concept as a youth playing monopoly? I love how they get us all talking about common sense like it's a new idea ?

[kane]

Call me crazy, but taking everything people have from them in a depression and having them build it back up from scratch doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by kane

Call me crazy, but taking everything people have from them in a depression and having them build it back up from scratch doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Nobody would be taking everything people have from them. Well unless they do not own it or can not pay for it. Sure some retirement accounts would be lost, people would loose stuff from job loss. Shit would hurt and hit the fan. On flip side - constant bail outs would also hurt everyone.

PS I have no doubt I may have the more crazy thought.

[2012]

Originally Posted by kane

Call me crazy, but taking everything people have from them in a depression and having them build it back up from scratch doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

[Blingbaby]

Here's the real solution for your artificial economy:

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by Blingbaby

Here's the real solution for your artificial economy:

A cgi screen shot?

And sure, we all have artificial economies.

[grumpy]

you are already in it. Only takes some nerve to admit it.

[kane]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Nobody would be taking everything people have from them. Well unless they do not own it or can not pay for it. Sure some retirement accounts would be lost, people would loose stuff from job loss. Shit would hurt and hit the fan. On flip side - constant bail outs would also hurt everyone.

PS I have no doubt I may have the more crazy thought.

I agree that bailout after bailout can and very well may dig us deeper and deeper in a hole. As for a depression not taking everything from people, well, I have a lot of friends that have pretty good jobs and make a pretty good living. None of them own their homes outright. They all have purchased homes, but none of them own them. If they lose their jobs they will lose their homes and cars (although a few of them have cars that are paid for). Debt for homes and cars is just the reality of the modern world. 95% of the population can't come up with the 200K+ that the average house costs these days.

Once that type of ball gets rolling it will be very hard to stop. Just look at what is happening. A bunch of people bought houses they can't afford and now it has sent the world into a tailspin. When the people who are actually paying for their homes start losing their jobs and homes the tailspin will turn into a full on death roll.

A depression would mean unemployment of around 20% that means we are out of business because those that remain with jobs will be hording their money and spending it on things that are needed or saving it under their mattress in case they too lose their job. I would think that today there would be even higher unemployment than the first depression because so few people actually work in jobs that produce a needed commodity. Farming is all machine done and huge farms can operate with just a few workers. Transportation is the same way as is most manufacturing jobs (what manufacturing jobs there are still left in the US) many stores would go under and there could be a very long and ugly time. I don't think that just some people would lose their retirement, I think a huge number of people would as most people's retirements are in some kind of investment related fund and those would bottom out.

Sure some good could come of it. Maybe we would turn ourselves around and go back to being a country that manufactures something that we actually sell to other countries and maybe we would usher in an era of responsible spending and wise credit choices. But I doubt it. Without a strong protectionist stance we can't compete with third world countries when it comes to manufacturing products. I think we could create a lot of new jobs if we focus on energy independence and those would be lasting jobs that can't be outsourced, but I think ultimately what would happen is we would eventually come out of it and within a handful of years we would be right back to living beyond our means and creating debt and if we are going to end up there anyway I don't see the need for going through the pain of a depression to get there.

I guess, in the end, I don't have a whole lot of faith in my fellow countrymen to spend wisely and create a sound future so a lesson would not be learned.

[Tat2Jr]

I think a good hard recession would be good for the country to get its priorities back on track, but a full-on depression.... no. That would suck balls.

I'm not sure about the automotive bailouts. Seems the money might be better spent on infrastructure, technology, and things that will bring long term jobs not short bursts. I think we're past quick fixes, and in for the long haul.

[jollyperv]

Honestly, fuck these American auto companies. No amount of bailout money will change the fact that they make inferior products that consistently disappoint and really aren't worth a shit to your average person. How long can a business continue on the same fucking path of failure?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The world is certainly going into a recession, it might become a depression in time. We've had 40 years of rampant consumerism in the belief that building retail was the right way. Yes building a mall so people can buy coffee makers and shirts made by cheap labor in the Far East is just the way to build an economy.

No it's a way to get the electorate fooled into thinking you're doing it just right so they r- elect you.

I just heard on the news Ford and General Motors are on the brink. How does that feel? You can drive to get your dole money in your cheap imported car made by some low paid worker in the Far East.

But still some believe the people who got us into this crap are the ones we trust to get us out. They will get themselves out of it and fuck the rest of us.

historically speaking the 'middle class' is a relatively new phenomena. maybe a short lived phenomena?

[Ethersync]

We need to allow the companies and people that made bad and/or irresponsible or outright fraudulent decisions FAIL.

Bailing them out at the expense of those that play by the rules is setting a terrible precedent. No lessons will be learned from this mess except that if you fuck up bad enough the government will be there to fix things for you.

All these bailouts are doing nothing, but guaranteeing we see a depression.

The problems we are seeing now are all due to cheap and easy credit. When money and credit is too easy to get there is always malinvestment. People/companies invest in things they would otherwise never invest it. The governments of the world seem to believe, unless they have ulterior motives, that this problem can be solved by cheaper money and easier credit. This makes absolutely no sense at all.

The fact is FDR did the same kind of bailout crap in the 30s which prolonged the agony of the first Great Depression. Now are on course to make that depression look like a warm up compared to what is likely just around the corner...

On November 15th there is a big central bankers meeting. All the central bankers of the world are getting together to discuss how to solve this problem on a global level. Nothing good will come of this meeting...

Make as much money as you can and be a stingy bastard when it comes to spending it. If you don't have, in cash, enough money to support you for at least 3 months you are going to be fucked. Ideally it should be more like 6 months.

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

But still some believe the people who got us into this crap are the ones we trust to get us out. They will get themselves out of it and fuck the rest of us.

That is exactly what is happening...

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Got me curious so I made this thread. Anyone else getting the same feeling? Do you think we should continue bailouts for the automakers, banks, airlines, etc. Or just let the cards finally land where they must?

From where I stand - I say no to the bailouts.

We can't continue throwing money at greed. The bubble was bound to burst sooner or later.

The reality is...in a manufacturing-turned-consumer based society - the money just isn't there any longer.

Bailouts are nothing more than a short-term, short-sighted bandaid that will change nothing in the long run. The greed will still be there.

[Violetta]

i'd love a depression!

[cherrylula]

What constitutes a depression?

How do we know we're not already in one?

I don't listen to what they tell us.

[GetSCORECash]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

cheap imported car made by some low paid worker in the Far East.

Most Toyota and Honda vehicles sold in the US, are made in the USA. Honda in particular makes such great cars in the USA, they have imported cars into Japan from the US.

One detail, about Japanese companies... They only take home, back to Japan, $2,000 per car, the rest of the money per vehicle is spent in the US, be it Dealers, workers, and plants.

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Bailing them out at the expense of those that play by the rules is setting a terrible precedent.

It already has. Didn't you see the resort AIG had set apart to rest. Tell me when was the last time you or your company staff, went on such a trip.

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

We can't continue throwing money at greed.

Or incompetence.

[ninavain]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

Remember in the early 90's, it was recession time but a few years later the internet boom came and everyone was rich. I worked in an office and 99% of the people were trading stocks when they should of been working. High school drop outs who knew how to load Windows 95 were given cushy IT jobs. Times were great and the government paid off their debts with all the added tax revenue.

Then it busted and everyone thought we were headed for a recession, but the housing boom came. Everyone was flipping houses, their own houses doubled in value and then refinanced and spent the extra cash, even in normal towns houses were up 70%, not to mention the hot areas. Everyone was rich again.

It busted and now here we are. Something else will come along and there will be another boom..............then another bust. It's just the way it is now.

I don't remeber the FED bailing everyone out each week. That is the difference here and it's not good. We are printing more and more money, without anyone spending. I think this is our last BOOM

[tony286]

I was listening to a program,they dont bail out the car companies. They fail millions will be added to the unemployment rolls. You got to remember its not just the plant and offices.Its the dealers, parts makers the towns where the plants are. So you look at all of that its a shit load of people. I think if they do bail them out, all executives should have to take a very sharp cut in pay.

[Doctor Dre]

I think the point of the buyout is not to save the compagnies, but to get some time to rebound. For the US to be once again on top of the technological world.

Obama is going to launch an apollo project on energy developpement. He wants the US auto markers to start producing electric and alternative energy cars before the rest of the world. So that's why the gov is probably going to save them.

Wind, ocean, solar, geothermal power.

Basicly regaining the technology edge over the world.

[IllTestYourGirls]

We needed a recession back in 2002 but Bush did not want one. So they pumped tons of money into the economy. Now we may be facing a hyperinflation depression. The drop in wall st wont be seen in main st for another year or two. Sadly the pain has just begun. All these bail outs, all these inflation packages (stimulus packages) will only cause more pain in the long run.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by tony404

I was listening to a program,they dont bail out the car companies. They fail millions will be added to the unemployment rolls. You got to remember its not just the plant and offices.Its the dealers, parts makers the towns where the plants are. So you look at all of that its a shit load of people. I think if they do bail them out, all executives should have to take a very sharp cut in pay.

Someone will buy the car companies if they go under, dont be foolish. If you give them the money they are going to fire people anyway and they will still fail. Who the fuck are they going to sell the cars to?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

Remember in the early 90's, it was recession time but a few years later the internet boom came and everyone was rich. I worked in an office and 99% of the people were trading stocks when they should of been working. High school drop outs who knew how to load Windows 95 were given cushy IT jobs. Times were great and the government paid off their debts with all the added tax revenue.

Then it busted and everyone thought we were headed for a recession, but the housing boom came. Everyone was flipping houses, their own houses doubled in value and then refinanced and spent the extra cash, even in normal towns houses were up 70%, not to mention the hot areas. Everyone was rich again.

It busted and now here we are. Something else will come along and there will be another boom..............then another bust. It's just the way it is now.

Every 10 years like clockwork tootsie....

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by tony404

I was listening to a program,they dont bail out the car companies. They fail millions will be added to the unemployment rolls. You got to remember its not just the plant and offices.Its the dealers, parts makers the towns where the plants are. So you look at all of that its a shit load of people. I think if they do bail them out, all executives should have to take a very sharp cut in pay.

Very damn aware that it would kill a whole slew of jobs just related to autos. Parts makers, dealers, ad companies, etc. Think some said around 2.5 to 3 million people laid off or unemployed.

If and when they get bailed out (yes I am sure they will be). I personally think not only executives should take a sharp pay cut. So should nearly everyone else, even the pensions and stuff for retired people. I am one of those that not only blames the auto companies, the exec's, but also the unions. Speaking of which I would also desire that the government force the union out if they took the bailout money.

[Barefootsies]

[NaughtyRob]

I see things going back on the upswing already in the past month or so.

[Z]

I absolutely believe that the US will go into a deep depression, 20's style. The rest of the world will feel the effects, many of those countries suffering recessions and other economic ripples.

I also believe that there is a world war coming, either to prevent the depression, lessen its effects or because of it. If you look back through history, big wars are always related to big economic swings, just like this one.