Canada is official no longer a democracy.

[[db]]

Officially, the thread title should say.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7765206.stm

So, the Prime Minister of Canada today suspended Parliament because he was going to lose a vote of confidence on Monday.

I'm sure a lot of Americans don't really understand this, but Europeans will. The Parliament is the foundation of, well, Parliamentary democracies. They don't vote for a president like in the USA, they vote for members of paliament, and the prime minister serves as the leader of paliament until he loses a confidence vote.

In Canada they have now shut down the parliament to keep the Prime Minister in power. Unprecedented in Canadian history.

This is essentially the equivalent of an American president suspending the presidential elections.

[Fletch XXX]

Rally round tha family!

[[db]]

...and who is responsible for allowing this? The Queen of England, if you can believe that.

Canada has got to free itself from colonialism already.

[pocketkangaroo]

What is a "no confidence" vote? I'm confused by that part.

[JFK]

You know what ? I agree with the decision, I did NOT vote for the ndp the liberals or the Bloc to govern. FUCK them all and their manipulations. Canada is not in the same shape as the US. Bailouts are not needed in the same way.
FUCK GM and all the rest of the companies who have been riding the wave of good times and now are whining for help. Its free enterprise, get with the times be competetive.

[crockett]

Do you need us to come up there and liberate you? We have lots of guns and bombs down here..

[Spunky]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

Rally round tha family!

With pockets full of shells

[[db]]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

What is a "no confidence" vote? I'm confused by that part.

It's a vote in Parliament, if the government loses it means they have lost the support of Parliament and their government has been defeated. After this happens there is either a general federal election, or the opposition can attempt to put together a coalition government.


Wikipedia can explain it better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_Confidence

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by [db]

...and who is responsible for allowing this? The Queen of England, if you can believe that.

Canada has got to free itself from colonialism already.

We did, in 1982.

[the Shemp]

dont we get a day off on Camilla's birthday?

[[db]]

Originally Posted by JFK

You know what ? I agree with the decision, I did NOT vote for the ndp the liberals or the Bloc to govern.

Then you disagree with your form of government.

62% of Canadians voted for those parties. The fact that you voted for conservatives should be irrelevant if you believe in democracy in Canada. The conservatives do not have a majority government, they do not have a mandate to govern on their own, and that is what they are trying to do.

Originally Posted by JFK

FUCK them all and their manipulations.

What manipulations? This is how parliaments work. If he can't survive a confidence vote, his government falls. Right now he has suspended our elected government so he doesn't have to face a confidence motion. Don't you remember junior high civics class?

I fail to see the manipulation, except on the part of Stephen Harper. He is now officially dictator of Canada. The elected opposition has been denied its right.

Don't tell me you live in Alberta and believe conservative propaganda? Stephen Harper attempted the same thing in 2004 with the Bloc Quebecois so don't give me any of that bullshit.

[iMind]

I think the whole thing is amazing.

Don't get me wrong, no matter who's in power, they're all crooked.
I hate harper.. but he's playing a smart game the whole way through this.

He's gonna get an election, ANOTHER election.. Pure genius really.

[[db]]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

We did, in 1982.

yeah that's why she decided today that the Parliament should be suspended to allow Stephen Harper to remain in power! At who's pleasure does the Governor General serve, if you're so free of the "motherland"?

[[db]]

Originally Posted by iMind

I think the whole thing is amazing.

Don't get me wrong, no matter who's in power, they're all crooked.
I hate harper.. but he's playing a smart game the whole way through this.

He's gonna get an election, ANOTHER election.. Pure genius really.

I agree that all the leaders are crooks, but once you remove the democratic element to government you are entering dangerous ground.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by [db]

Don't tell me you live in Alberta and believe conservative propaganda? Stephen Harper attempted the same thing in 2004 with the Bloc Quebecois so don't give me any of that bullshit.

You guys can keep saying this, fact is it wasn't a formal agreement, no papers were signed and it was at a time when the liberals were caught STEALING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars.

This coalition is trying to pin an "economic crisis" which doesn't exist BTW on harper..
I've always liked Layton, but after this all, I think he's just as power hungry as Harper.

This whole thing is like watching a hockey game, when you don't like either team.. doesn't mean you won't see some amazing plays.. and Harper is proving he's smarter than I ever thought he was.

I'm gonna leave it at that, I posted for 5 hours on facebook about this last night and don't have it in me today

[[db]]

Originally Posted by crockett

Do you need us to come up there and liberate you? We have lots of guns and bombs down here..

If we were talking about a country in Latin America, Africa, or south east Asia, and the government were a left wing one, Canada would already be facing sanctions, etc.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by [db]

I agree that all the leaders are crooks, but once you remove the democratic element to government you are entering dangerous ground.

he's delayed it.. that's all.

You know they can vote the minute Parliment is back in right?
Or did he take that away too? LOL!

You clearly have no understanding of what happened today, it's a COOLING OFF period, that's all.

Nothing undemocratic about it

He's giving them a few weeks to make the coalition look even more power hungry and stupid .. like it is.

[iMind]

[db]

Do you live in Quebec by chance?

[[db]]

Originally Posted by iMind

You guys can keep saying this, fact is it wasn't a formal agreement, no papers were signed and it was at a time when the liberals were caught STEALING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars.

This coalition is trying to pin an "economic crisis" which doesn't exist BTW on harper..
I've always liked Layton, but after this all, I think he's just as power hungry as Harper.

This whole thing is like watching a hockey game, when you don't like either team.. doesn't mean you won't see some amazing plays.. and Harper is proving he's smarter than I ever thought he was.

I'm gonna leave it at that, I posted for 5 hours on facebook about this last night and don't have it in me today

The surrounding situation (economic crisis, sponsorship scandal, etc) is irrelevant to me. The opposition wanting to defeat a government is nothing new or special. What is different about this situation is that the PM has succeeded in effectively neutralizing the last election by declaring himself king. It's sad that a lot of people seem to think this is as important as something as irrelevant as a hockey game. Right now Canada is governed by Saddam Hussein in a sweater.

[sysk]

Shit... I can't wait to see Harper get pwned

[iMind]

Originally Posted by [db]

The surrounding situation (economic crisis, sponsorship scandal, etc) is irrelevant to me. The opposition wanting to defeat a government is nothing new or special. What is different about this situation is that the government has succeeded in effectively neutralizing the last election and declaring himself king. It's sad that a lot of people seem to think this is as important as something as irrelevant as a hockey game. Right now Canada is governed by Saddam Hussein in a sweater.

You're an idiot..

Sorry man, but you are.

He's ajurned the house for a month, you know he can for UP TO A YEAR right ?
maybe he should have

If you can't see the coalition is out for nothing but power, and willing to jump in bed with separatists, you have a very fucked point of view.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by [db]

yeah that's why she decided today that the Parliament should be suspended to allow Stephen Harper to remain in power! At who's pleasure does the Governor General serve, if you're so free of the "motherland"?

Did you even read it?

Also, the governor general gave the nod to Harper's plan, not the queen. Aside from all the jibber-jabber about what the queen's role is she is basically a figurhead only. But who knows, maybe you're right and the Governor General of Canada has her on speed dial and rang her up to get permission.

Maybe she's in her favorite 5. :D

[iMind]

For the record.. I support the NPD.
Harper is just the guy playing a smarter game.
that's a FACT.

he's making the coalition look retarded.. despite what the liberal media is saying, talk to the PEOPLE.

A coalition will not happen, we're gonna see another election and the outcome will be a majority LANDSLIDE for the conservatives..

The first majority in decades.. Harper is going down in history as one of the greatest Canadian political minds ever, you watch and see.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Did you even read it?

Also, the governor general gave the nod to Harper's plan, not the queen. Aside from all the jibber-jabber about what the queen's role is she is basically a figurhead only. But who knows, maybe you're right and the Governor General of Canada has her on speed dial and rang her up to get permission.

Maybe she's in her favorite 5. :D

Don't bother with this guy haha .. he's not in the 137 club, and it's VERY clear.

[CDSmith]

The Canada Act 1982 (1982 c. 11) is an Act of Parliament passed by the British Parliament that severed all remaining legislative dependence of Canada on the United Kingdom, in a process known as "patriation".

Seems pretty clear to me.

[madm1k3]

I was kinda interested in the coalition till stephane dion became leader, that guys is such a loser, i hate harper but Dion is a terrible alternative

[JamesK]

That's like, totally cool.

[iMind]

Okay, one more post on this and I'm gonna avoid this thread, cause I could go all night haha.

My favorite part of watching this is how they were planning a coalition the whole time, from the SECOND harper lost the election, and tried to use a constitutional rule to TRY to overthrow him, but they he uses a constitutional rule to delay it .. and he's a dictator suddenly, that argument is fucked.

They played their play, he played back.. and is gonna beat them at their own game.

Fact is BOTH the liberals and the NDP promised to work with his government and were LYING to the people, they've been on this since the day they LOST the election.

You can all argue that 62% of the people didn't vote for the conservatives...blah blah blah
Well what's the percentage that didn't vote NDP? or didn't vote liberal?

And let's not even get into the BILLION dollars that will be transfered immediately to Quebec if the coalition goes through, while they all sit on their podiums and cry about the 300 MILLION dollars to fund another election ( which it won't be.. not like they need to campaign all that much this time )
Idiots..

Just to clarify my comment above, anyone that says he's blocking the confidence vote is fucked.. he blocked NOTHING, he's DELAYING it.. and they've already said they're gonna keep pushing no matter what he does.. they look like a bunch of power hungry losers haha.

Keep in mind, I vote NPD.. Well, till this week anyway.

[CDSmith]

We need to get a pair of giant wiperblades from Canadian Tire and clear off the whole lot of them---conservatives, libs, ndp'ers, bloc-heads---all of them, and let the green party take over.

The marijuana party can be the opposition.

[the Shemp]

Harper tried to cozy up to the Block Q when he was in opposition...that was okay then, but now the other parties trying to do the same thing are "traitors to Canada" ...

[[db]]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Did you even read it?

Also, the governor general gave the nod to Harper's plan, not the queen. Aside from all the jibber-jabber about what the queen's role is she is basically a figurhead only. But who knows, maybe you're right and the Governor General of Canada has her on speed dial and rang her up to get permission.

Maybe she's in her favorite 5. :D

The governor general serves at the Queen's pleasure and is in regular contact with the queen. I guess you failed 8th grade.

[[db]]

Originally Posted by the Shemp

Harper tried to cozy up to the Block Q when he was in opposition...that was okay then, but now the other parties trying to do the same thing are "traitors to Canada" ...

Exactly, the hypocrisy from this government is unbelievable.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by [db]

The governor general serves at the Queen's pleasure and is in regular contact with the queen. I guess you failed 8th grade.

It's a formality only. Do some reading instead of making yourself look foolish.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by the Shemp

Harper tried to cozy up to the Block Q when he was in opposition...that was okay then, but now the other parties trying to do the same thing are "traitors to Canada" ...

Shemp, normally your posts are on base, but that's irrelevant.

You know that harper was in DISCUSSIONs in 2004 with the bloc only to overthrow the liberals when they were CAUGHT RED HANDED funneling millions of dollars to their OWN party? and then rejected the idea as "Unworkable" ?

there's HUGE fucking difference ..

must resist this thread but I can't help it.

[[db]]

Originally Posted by iMind

A coalition will not happen, we're gonna see another election and the outcome will be a majority LANDSLIDE for the conservatives..

Clearly nonsense, Harper has peaked. Not a single person who has yet to vote for him will ever start. The 62% of people in Canada who voted against him last time will never vote for him.

He has no shot of a majority, and this debacle has only hurt him.

[[db]]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Seems pretty clear to me.

I don't understand how someone who lives in Canada can be confused about the role of the governor general...??!

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by [db]

I don't understand how someone who lives in Canada can be confused about the role of the governor general...??!

I'm not, but you clearly are if you think the queen is the primary decision maker in Canada's government.

Again, read the link I gave you. I even quoted the part about our independance from the UK in post 25 in this very thread. You're just not paying attention.

I have to go study for that 8th grade mid-term now...

[iMind]

Originally Posted by [db]

Clearly nonsense, Harper has peaked. Not a single person who has yet to vote for him will ever start. The 62% of people in Canada who voted against him last time will never vote for him.

He has no shot of a majority, and this debacle has only hurt him.

LOL, quebec city?

Where do you live.. I need to know

[donkevlar]

Harper was that kid who threw the monopoly board across the room half way through the game because he was losing.

Also, he is Satan.

And his name is an anagram of "rheapr"... coincidence?

[[db]]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

It's a formality only. Do some reading instead of making yourself look foolish.

I don't agree. The governor general is a ridiculous position. She represents the Queen, is in regular contact with the queen, has basically veto power over the PM, and is what? A TV journalist?

I say scrap the entire office and forget about the goddamn commonwealth once and for all.

[[db]]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I'm not, but you clearly are if you think the queen is the primary decision maker in Canada's government.

Again, read the link I gave you. I even quoted the part about our independance from the UK in post 25 in this very thread. You're just not paying attention.

I have to go study for that 8th grade mid-term now...

Where did I say anything about the Queen being the "primary decision maker in Canada's government"? The governor general is the queen's representative, and I think we should eliminate that position (or get rid of its ties to the monarch).

oh, and she is officially the head of state.

Canada is a colony. And now, one without an elected parliament.

Good stuff.

heil Harper

[BlueDude]

Harper days as PM will be over soon. Look, I admitted that I don't really like the far Left governing this country, but I think most people would agree that when the Liberal was in power this country seems to manage well even though the Liberal was corrupted (remeber that sponsor scandals??). Just look at the last 8 yrs in the US and comparing that with the last 6 years before Harper came to power, we were pretty well off.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by [db]

Where did I say anything about the Queen being the "primary decision maker in Canada's government"?

You've been dancing around it the whole thread, starting with your "Oh, and who is responsible for allowing this? The Queen" comment.

Originally Posted by [db]

The governor general is the queen's representative,

Yes, as a holdover formality. Like I said, she doesn't have to consult the queen before approving a prorogue of parlaiment.

Originally Posted by [db]

and I think we should eliminate that position (or get rid of its ties to the monarch).

That I agree with in full.

Originally Posted by [db]

oh, and she is officially the head of state.

Figurehead is the more accurate term.

Originally Posted by [db]

Canada is a colony. And now, one without an elected parliament.

Wrong on both counts, but I bet if you keep posting it enough it will eventually magically become true.

[pornask]

Originally Posted by Spunky

With pockets full of shells

fucking nice. Saw RATM in Vienna with Prodigy and Die Fantastiche Fier. Bad fucking ass

[the Shemp]

Originally Posted by iMind

Shemp, normally your posts are on base, but that's irrelevant.

You know that harper was in DISCUSSIONs in 2004 with the bloc only to overthrow the liberals when they were CAUGHT RED HANDED funneling millions of dollars to their OWN party? and then rejected the idea as "Unworkable" ?

there's HUGE fucking difference ..

must resist this thread but I can't help it.

its not irrelevant, Harper tried to use the Bloc to his advantage when it suited him...
just as he offered a terminally ill independent MP a life insurance policy, if he would vote with the conservatives... he is no less a weasel than the other politicians...

[onwebcam]

"Branches: Executive--Queen Elizabeth II (head of state represented by a governor general),"

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2089.htm


Procedures for Dissolution

The prime minister traditionally visits the governor general at Rideau Hall and submits an instrument of advice to the governor general recommending dissolution. An instrument of advice is a written document from the prime minister requesting that the governor general authorize a constitutional or legislative action of government. The signing of the documents normally takes place in the governor general’s study. When a dissolution is agreed to, the documents are signed in the following order:

1. The prime minister submits an instrument of advice to the governor general recommending the dissolution of Parliament by instrument under the Great Seal of Canada. The governor general signs the instrument indicating his or her approval.
2. The governor general signs a proclamation in the name of Her Majesty the Queen dissolving Parliament. (The deputy registrar general of Canada and the deputy attorney general of Canada sign the proclamation prior to its submission to the governor general.)
3. The governor general signs the minutes of a meeting of the Privy Council authorizing the issue of election writs fixing the polling day and the date of return of writs. Election writs authorize the conduct of elections in electoral districts.
4. The governor general signs a proclamation in the name of Her Majesty the Queen declaring that election writs are to be issued. (The deputy registrar general of Canada and the deputy attorney general of Canada sign the proclamation prior to its submission to the governor general.)
5. The prime minister submits an instrument of advice to the governor general for the issue of a proclamation for the pro forma summoning of a new Parliament. (Pro forma refers to the date that is set for the summoning of Parliament by the prime minister when dissolution is granted by the governor general. The date can be delayed further but it must always be at least a day after the date for the return of election writs.)
6. The governor general signs a proclamation in the name of Her Majesty the Queen for the pro forma summoning of a new Parliament. (The deputy registrar general of Canada and the deputy attorney general of Canada sign the proclamation prior to its submission to the governor general.)

Procedures after Dissolution

Immediately following the granting of dissolution of Parliament, the governor general informs Her Majesty the Queen of the dissolution and of the date set for the general election.

Election writs for each of the 308 constituencies are then signed on behalf of the governor general by the Secretary to the Governor General who is the deputy to the governor general and by the chief electoral officer.

A minimum of 36 days is required by statute between the date of issuance of election writs and the polling day. The date for the return of writs should be at least 21 days after polling day.

Polling day cannot be earlier than the nearest Monday (or Tuesday, if Monday is a holiday) after the 36th day following dissolution and the proclamation of the writs.

[[db]]

Originally Posted by BlueDude

I think most people would agree that when the Liberal was in power this country seems to manage well even though the Liberal was corrupted (remeber that sponsor scandals??). Just look at the last 8 yrs in the US and comparing that with the last 6 years before Harper came to power, we were pretty well off.

I grudgingly agree.

Originally Posted by BlueDude

Harper days as PM will be over soon.

Hope you're right. I suspect he will lose the next election after this mess, but who knows. People have short attention spans. The CBC seems to be totally in bed with the guy.

[[db]]

onwebcam, you left out the best part:

"The governing party remains in office as long as it retains majority support in the House of Commons on major issues. "

Not any more!

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

"Branches: Executive--Queen Elizabeth II (head of state represented by a governor general),"

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2089.htm


Procedures for Dissolution

The prime minister traditionally visits the governor general at Rideau Hall and submits an instrument of advice to the governor general recommending dissolution. An instrument of advice is a written document from the prime minister requesting that the governor general authorize a constitutional or legislative action of government. The signing of the documents normally takes place in the governor general?s study. When a dissolution is agreed to, the documents are signed in the following order:

1. The prime minister submits an instrument of advice to the governor general recommending the dissolution of Parliament by instrument under the Great Seal of Canada. The governor general signs the instrument indicating his or her approval.
2. The governor general signs a proclamation in the name of Her Majesty the Queen dissolving Parliament. (The deputy registrar general of Canada and the deputy attorney general of Canada sign the proclamation prior to its submission to the governor general.)
3. The governor general signs the minutes of a meeting of the Privy Council authorizing the issue of election writs fixing the polling day and the date of return of writs. Election writs authorize the conduct of elections in electoral districts.
4. The governor general signs a proclamation in the name of Her Majesty the Queen declaring that election writs are to be issued. (The deputy registrar general of Canada and the deputy attorney general of Canada sign the proclamation prior to its submission to the governor general.)
5. The prime minister submits an instrument of advice to the governor general for the issue of a proclamation for the pro forma summoning of a new Parliament. (Pro forma refers to the date that is set for the summoning of Parliament by the prime minister when dissolution is granted by the governor general. The date can be delayed further but it must always be at least a day after the date for the return of election writs.)
6. The governor general signs a proclamation in the name of Her Majesty the Queen for the pro forma summoning of a new Parliament. (The deputy registrar general of Canada and the deputy attorney general of Canada sign the proclamation prior to its submission to the governor general.)

Procedures after Dissolution

Immediately following the granting of dissolution of Parliament, the governor general informs Her Majesty the Queen of the dissolution and of the date set for the general election.

Election writs for each of the 308 constituencies are then signed on behalf of the governor general by the Secretary to the Governor General who is the deputy to the governor general and by the chief electoral officer.

A minimum of 36 days is required by statute between the date of issuance of election writs and the polling day. The date for the return of writs should be at least 21 days after polling day.

Polling day cannot be earlier than the nearest Monday (or Tuesday, if Monday is a holiday) after the 36th day following dissolution and the proclamation of the writs.

Thank you. Just like I said, she's a formal figurehead. "in the name of" does not mean she's making command decisions and calling the shots. It means her formal representative the governor general is. He's saying Canada is still controlled by the UK. The 1982 act would indicate otherwise, which is all I'm really trying to get through to the guy.

No mention of speed dial in all that. I wonder if db will read it all though, it's a lot of words.

[CDSmith]

One other point, then I'm out for the night here...

Nothing that has happened lately is out of bounds or beyond the scope of the Canadian constitution. The move for a non-conficence vote, the move to form a coalition government, and Harper's move for a prorogue of parlaiment, ALL are legal according to the democratic process.

I'm less interested in crying fowl than I am just watching how all this plays out. Watching a usual parlaimentary debate is about as fun as watching paint dry with no alcohol in the house. Lately all things government have been *shock* INTERESTING.