Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell (Post 15221343)

Nice thought but completely invalid here. next.

:warning

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell (Post 15221338)

STOP







Do I have your attention yet?






Seriously, you as the reader, are you here for kicks or to get business done? :helpme





If you've got any interest in this thread or subject, take 5 minutes to read my post.






I could probably rant here for pages but since the attention span here on GFY is shorter all the time I'll do my best to be brief. I've already engaged my legal counsel several times on behalf of friends and clients regarding Jupiter Hosting (NaviSite) and their contract for providing service. Before I share my thoughts, however, I need to bitch at every single one of you for some minutes....

It's not the Wild West. It never was. You all just drink too much at the tradeshows and have been spoiled by the prevalent informality of our industry over the last ten years. One way or another, many of you who were spoiled pre-contract kind of got what you paid for in the long run.

Even if you are hypothetically the recipient of bad service with NaviSite, you have precarious cancellation rights.

This is just business. The contract that was executed by hundreds uses standard terminology, clauses, fees, penalties and limitations of your rights. Contracts are no different from any carrier, data center or other hosting company that has clients execute such agreements. Don't believe me? Read what you might have signed from Cavecreek, National Net, Equinix, Switch and Data, Cogent, Level3 - any contract whatsoever for hosting, bandwidth or co-location service from anywhere. Although there might be some slight variances, any contract worth a sh!t will AT LEAST include the following:

1) A requirement that formal notice be provided within X days of renewal.
2) An automatic renewal for successive periods, typically 12 months at a time, if notice is not properly given as required.
3) That any cancellation does not relieve you from the full liability of the contract. By my observance, about half of the agreements out there actually accelerate the damages/fees to being immediately due.

......and much, much more.

They have all of the rights, that is the purpose to having a contract executed. Are you all blind? Jupiter was bundled for sale with a valuation based on it's assets, liabilities and contracts in place for continued service. This is why there were excellent promotions at the time which required a 2 year term contract - it increased Ray's multiple (the valuation). And good for Ray, seriously, all of you who were friends with him at the time should be pleased that he had a successful exit. Shame on you for suggesting he did a bad thing - you signed the contract and furthermore, he had no way of knowing how the new owner would truly handle service and support post-sale.

Suggesting this is Ray's fault is NO DIFFERENT or less absurd than a minor's parent bitching at you for what their kids are surfing online in their home. Personal responsibility, people. Dude wanted to retire or move on, good for him, this is how business evolves.

You didn't read what you signed, perhaps you never do. If this is the instance that learns you the life and business lesson which helps you on some future business decision, great. Let's at least make the glass half full here, everyone needs to learn this business lesson. There's no 'bro' club when it comes to contracts. When you sign, the paper (unless properly disputed legally) is the final word and if terms aren't met then you're OWNED. All contracts worth a sh!t immediately make void/null any previous or future verbal agreements and will establish themselves as the deal authority.

NaviSite is a 100+ million dollar business. Yes you have been turned over to a real lawyer. Before it got to them, it was at a real collection agency which likely put it on your credit report. As previously mentioned in this thread, they are counting on a default judgement or to win in a court of law. What? You don't think a lawyer will do an hours work on the phone in advance and take 2 hours out of his day for a brief court appearance to make a few K? LOL By virtue of the fact that you are already this far along in the process you have already been reduced to statistics and probabilities - totally worth their time.

Everyone's first response to something like this should be to contact an attorney if they don't plan on paying the bill due to either hardship or disagreement.



OK, now that I've brow beat all of you - just know that it's out of love. Here is what else I have to say:

1) Hands down, based upon what I have been told, NaviSite *may* have abusive collections practices. I've had stories recanted to me of people who were sworn at, hung up on, threatened inappropriately.

2) It *may* be a common practice to obfuscate the cancellation process. I say may, but I've already worked with several people where this has been by all appearances true. I have had multiple clients given the run-around. One of which even gave proper notice on one server prior to the 45 days and then a short while later on the other two servers and was STILL coerced into paying for future service where it was clearly not reasonable.

3) If you are not in arrears with NaviSite and are a co-location customer you HAVE THE RIGHT to have your equipment shipped to another host. Contractually, you're still on the hook for your term but if you're exiting don't allow them to falsely suggest otherwise. (I also watched this scenario play out).

4) There might be some instances where they DO NOT HAVE PAPERWORK. I strongly suggest that even if you have maintained a copy of your contract that it not be shared. They have been known to be in pursuit of some debts for which they have no documentation on file.



Brad Mitchell

Originally Posted by onlymovies (Post 15221375)

Being "friends" in this business with people adds a new layer to a business deal. It brings the contract to a new level. Sure it's business and sure the contact can state anything it wants..no matter how silly it is.

But the fact remains that if there's a clause in the contact that I will need to pay 1 year worth of fucking hosting after I cancel, i expect to told up front. I would think something THAT significant is BEYOND the fine print for a "friend."

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221378)

Sorry I cant put it in such well spoken words as Brad did. But this is just shit plain and simple.

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221209)

Even the old Jupiter guys. Shit Im pissed but I dont think they meant for this to happen. Not to me anyhow. We go back way too far...

Originally Posted by BusterBunny (Post 15221397)

you had me til this...hopefully you would be angry if it happened to anyone not just you...i wish you luck tho:thumbsup

Originally Posted by darksoul (Post 15221410)

Hey man,
I've been in a similar situation and got it worked out.
This was with a phone company and this was the time when I learned that
most contracts have this auto renewal clause and the x days termination notice
and they can fuck you for it if they want to.
The way out was the "abusive terms" each Consumer Protection Act has.
Basically a lot of the terms in a contract are abusive and you can dispute that in court
if necessary and have them turned in your favour.
Just read up on the existing laws, it will be entertaining and you'll learn a lot.
What I did was select a few points in the contract which I considered abusive and told them that
"I find the following terms abuse according to Customer Protection Act ...,
I consider this discussion closed and if you want to have this points proved in court just go ahead and send me the papers"
Funny thing is not only did they chilled down but they even paid me a month of service back.

Do not get scared about their tactics, thats what they do for a living.
As a good customer the courts will most of the times rule in your favour.

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221400)

I honestly dont think the old owners of Jupiter put this in the contract to shake clients down for cash if they wanted to leave. It had to be in there to protect them. From large clients etc from not paying them and leaving them without notice, etc. Not from someone like me with a single 10mpbs old p4 server.

Navisite just seems to be abusing this.

Originally Posted by BusterBunny (Post 15221414)

k u know i love you even tho i don't know ya (least i hope so)...but i just wanted to make sure the common man isn't expected to take the shaft while others reap the beni's...i consider you part of the bro club (whether true or not) and just wanna make sure you aren't mad cause you got out bro'd or some shit:winkwink:

Originally Posted by jscott (Post 15221421)

1, poppy,i love you, i know you were doing your job

2. Poppy, you promised me ddos protection, you said in your own words "you'll sleep well at night" (weeks after that i was awake for 3 days straight dealing with ddos attack, all my sites down etc)

3. U told me, "man we host gfy, deal with ddos always!" etc etc, earned my trust about that, and also thru friendship in person, i love you man, you're awesome guy!

But

after i seen the service was not there that i was promised, i contacted customer support at jupiter for almost one fucking year!! Asking if they could release me from contract, and i was never attended to, i think even now to this day nobody from jupiter/navisite ever replied to me about my concerns about getting out out of jupiter/navisite contract, i wanted out, and i had no reply, if i were to ask how is the weather, they'd tell me, but anything to do with getting my sites off their servers i had no reply

..................... Wait, im just getting started, i need a smoke................................



:disgust

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221420)

Honestly I dont know what the fuck you are talking about.
:eek7:eek7

Originally Posted by DollarKing (Post 15221430)

So now you are in the clear about the whole thing and realise you have to settle up after all so its a case of all's well that ends well and no hard feelings especially if a rep of jupiter asked you out for a few drinks and a laugh about it all.

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221428)

so with that said, how much are these mother fuckers trying to shake you down for??

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221413)

I doubt that. I signed a contract I didnt understand. And actually still dont. Its sooo vauge. But its a legal document.
I got OWNED.

Originally Posted by jscott (Post 15221445)

My last bill from them said I owed them approx $6,700, this is from a $300/month hosting plan, and I paid on time EVERY time.

I was warned that they'd suspend my hosting so ASAP I wanted to move my sites off their servers, I was given no help, no SSH, I had to move the sites over 1 by 1, via FTP, it was a LONG and shitty ass situation

I was trying to talk with them about arranging some kind of agreement, I pay x amount, get me FAR away from them and their shitty services, but then they'd only reply "pay now, pay now, pay now pay now pay now" blah blah blah

.....................

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221335)

Anyone know if this is a legit point?
Ill bring this up to my Attorney Next week.

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221443)

Not exactly....
But im not really that pissed at the old Jupiter.. Its the new... Navisite...

Jupiter did treat me real well. They were family. I had Free servers with them too..
This was the only paid one on contract.

They hooked me up and well. Navisite would have no part of that.

Originally Posted by mmcfadden (Post 15221425)

Originally Posted by BusterBunny (Post 15221467)

man dont say stuff like that...makes it seem like you are only mad cause you gotta pay instead of getting freebies that was my first point...in the end it's proly me getting the ban...again i'm on your side but geez

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221479)

Did I just sell you out?

Haaa!

Someone ban this guy. He just spoke out about the establishment.



Yeah im burned by the whole situation. But not as bad towards old Jupiter as I was a few hours ago.

I just want to fix this. Put it behind me. Learned from it. Hope people here did too.

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell (Post 15221338)

4) There might be some instances where they DO NOT HAVE PAPERWORK. I strongly suggest that even if you have maintained a copy of your contract that it not be shared. They have been known to be in pursuit of some debts for which they have no documentation on file.

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 15221548)

Damn... Lesson learned...

#1 - There is NO Bro club when it comes to business.
#2 - Get it in writing. And read your copy before signing.
#3 - Don't pick the Bro club food over the other food. The best food never touched a Bro's hand.

This is why I am month to month on hosting. It is also why I don't do very much business with friends.

Side Note: I have a guy trying to sell me a house right now. Hard selling. Dude, houses lost 16% of their value from May to Aug. From Sept to now it is 4%... do you know what that means? Things are turning around. You gotta buy now!

Bitch, 2009 is going to make the current housing market look good!

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 15221563)

If they are charging you for 1 year of hosting BP, you might as well keep the server up then and use the 10 megabits, but notify them in writing you are cancelling now.

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 15221561)

Brad you are an idiot

Webair, Righthosting, and OC3 do not have gay 1 year contracts.

I wanted to go with Jupiter because of Poppy, but the 1 year contract thing sucks, I got burned by that by Exodus back years ago. The only reason to lock clients to 1 year deals is because you feel they might find someone better. Most webmasters don't leave on price. They leave cause of poor service, reliablity, hardware...

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 15221116)

Really? What host are you using that is listed with the BBB?

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 15221218)

Unless they have actually served you with a lawsuit, I wouldn't worry about lawyers. They can run around claiming you owe money all they want, it doesn't matter. Until someone shows up at your door to serve you papers, legally they are owed nothing.

Now I'd also keep a check on your credit reports. If this does show up, immediately dispute the claim with the credit reporting agencies. They will then have to show proof that you owe the debt. This is not always easy for a collection agency as they have to go back to the hosting company and get the details. They only have 30 days to do this.

Other than that, just wait. If it's not on your credit report and you're not being sued, it's not a problem. If you are getting a lot of calls, tell them to stop calling you. By law they have to do so.

Don't let fuckers like this push you around.

Originally Posted by boneprone (Post 15221174)

What kind of Attorney do I need here.


People are telling me to lawyer up. Shit the only Attorney Ive ever worked with was a Criminal Defense Attorney.. He was expensive. And we went to trial and lost. (long story)

I dont think I need one of those guys. And I dont want to pay THOUSANDS for an attorney for this bullshit shakedown. (this is a shakedown no matter how you look at it)

What the process in getting an attorney? Last time I just asked around for who was the best. (it was to keep me out of jail)

This time I want something cheap. If im fighting over 9k, i dont want to pay 3k for an attorney.

What and how do I get one that can do the job for me?

Originally Posted by jcsike (Post 15222781)

dude, you signed the contract back in 2003, back when bandwidth prices were nothing. and the one year thing was pretty much standard, its not like now when everything is dirt cheap

pay what you owe and quit bitching

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 15221561)

Brad you are an idiot

Webair, Righthosting, and OC3 do not have gay 1 year contracts.

I wanted to go with Jupiter because of Poppy, but the 1 year contract thing sucks, I got burned by that by Exodus back years ago. The only reason to lock clients to 1 year deals is because you feel they might find someone better. Most webmasters don't leave on price. They leave cause of poor service, reliablity, hardware...

Originally Posted by fusionx (Post 15222766)

Any legit law firm will give you an hour consultation for free.

They'll review the contract and tell you what legal standing you have.

Then they'll explain your $$$ options. If there's a good chance for a counter suit your out of pocket would be less... etc..

I'd get off the board and get into a lawyer's office ASAP. The more you talk about it the more you expose yourself.

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links (Post 15222812)

idiot :2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents: