bump - Jupiter= Stupider Hosting with NaviShit...

Terrible hosting service stay away!!!

:mad:

Tony,

Very sage advice, but let me add some stuff from someone has been in hosting for a long time as well. Back in the day when hosting was really growing we (BBN/Genuity) changed out terms often for numerous reasons. . First off , when the contract reads 12 months , with only a month to month auto renewal the company is only allowed to project revenue for 13 Months, when the contract is 1 year auto renew you can actually project that as much as 2 yrs revenue to the street. (Back when such things mattered) I know that we , because of our competitive environment , did not do an auto renew mainly because our goal was to reach out to our customers one quarter prior to try to get them to commit to a higher level or more services. The risk with any contract especially during the Internet explosion was that the companies we were dealing with were all about getting sites up fast and then once they were up if they did not gte results they would try to cancel only a few months in , this is after we negotiated lease terms on equipment , which was not cheap at the time, and already committed man hours to expedite delivery of the site for them. In these cases we would commonly pursue relief for the entire terms of the contract , if only to recover our HW investment.
Now since you have no leverage here , since you fully intend not to move forward with this provider, collecting as much as possible is their only recourse. Once they add as much "fees" as they can, the next step is to tack on Legal fees once it gets coded as a 7 or 14 (collection codes) for Legal action , In this case the attorney now gets 1/3 of whatever is recovered and the company has written off the debt. In these cases the Attorney will usually approach with a settlement .50 on the dollar or something. If you can cut a good deal you may want to consider it, because in court it really looks like they got you, and the terms will absolutely hold up in court even if it was a week, or a day, does not matter, a deadline is a deadline.

I couldn't advise Tony's recommendations more ,just thought you'd want another view.

Jupiter went to shits after they sold to NaviSite

Navisite sucks bad service and bad support ect ect. :321GFY

Never EVER! even if i have to drop a line and a server
in my bedroom to host...i will NOT host at NAVISITE AGAIN

I see two sides here. First, to get in the right frame of mind consider
a punter who signs up for a monthly recurring membership at your site.
Let's say you have really unique content and charge $60 / month.
The punter joins on Oct 1st, then on January 5th he says he wants
to cancel and he does not want to be charged for the rest of January.
He didn't cancel before the January bill was due, so he has to pay
for January, right? (You might be nice and refund him, but you don't
have to.)

Under the contract you posted and said you signed, you signed up for
an annually recurring deal, just like the punter you signs up for a monthly
recurring deal. You contract runs for a year from oct. 22nd each year.
According to what you just said your contract runs for a year from Oct. 22nd
each year and you owe them. You signed a contract the recurred yearly.
You didn't cancel before it renewed, so you had another one year contract.
That's the contract you signed. This is why we don't sign year long
contracts.

That said, the question is DAMAGES - by breaking your year long
contract, how much did you cause them to lose? Most places have
specific laws about leasing real estate such as homes and apartments
for a year. They say that although you have a one year lease, if you
break that contract the law limits the damages. Typically if you
break your lease you owe 1 1/2 month's rent, or until the apartment
is rented to a new tenant. Rental contracts often call for more, saying
you owe for the whole year, but the law says otherwise. Why? Because
the landlord can rent that apartment (or server) to someone else, thereby
recouping some of the money they lost when you broke the contract.
In fact, they have a legal duty to try to rent it out or otherwise limit their
damages. Were you to go to court, you could bring up the question of
damages, asking how much Jupiter actually lost when you left, assuming
they rented that server out to someone else as soon as practicable.
You could say that we need to look to the statutes for a guideline as
to reasonable damages, then ask the judge to take judicial notice of
the laws limiting damages regarding broken leases. Reasonably, you
could be expected to compensate Jupiter in an amount equal to 1-2
months of fees since you broke the contract.

Legalisticly, another question is the transferability of the contract.
Is Jupiter a corporation and did you have a contract with that corporation?
If so, the fact that the corporation has new stockholders doesn't effect
your contract. On the other hand, if their was no corporation, your contract
may have actually been with Lensman and the others. The deal was that
those guys would provide hosting with their own level of professionalism
and you may not have to accept the substitution of hosting by some other
people who provide the service with a different level of professionalism.
You don't have a contract with the new owners and they old contract
may not be transferable - unless the contract says it's with Jupiter Inc.

Even if it is a deal with Jupiter Inc., you have another way to go. If I sign a
record contract with Madonna's Management, Inc., to have Madonna do
an album, they can't have Miley Cyrus do the album instead. I signed up
for a album by Madonna, and one by Cyrus isn't the same. If you had regular
contact with Jupiter staff ad had them do work beyond just housing the server,
ad if the new owners got rid of all the old staff, they may have been the ones
to break the contract. Your deal was to have hosting like the old Jupiter
provided, with Bobby the Super Tech managing your server or whatever.
When they got rid of the good staff and had Cluless Curtis trying to admin
your server, they were the ones who didn't hold up their end of the deal.

The main point, though, is that you signed a contract which renewed yearly
and you didn't cancel it before it renewed, so now you owe them some
reasonable amount of money unless they somehow violated the deal first.
That's why you don't sign year long contracts for things that can be done
monthly. The only reason I can see that a host would insist on a year long
contract is because they already know you'll probably want to leave after a
couple months. (Unless of course you're leasing specialized hardware that
they have to buy specially for you, in which case a year is reasonable but
it shouldn't renew). That, I think, is the root cause of the problem - you
screwed up by signing a yearly renewing contract and they aren't being
nice about letting you out of the deal. They may be being unreasonable if
$5,000 is more than two month's hosting costs, but you gt yourself into it
by signing the yearly contract, then more so by not paying attention to
when you could cancel.

I put the last site we did, for a local non-profit, on Phatservers because they have
no set up fee and no contract. The other hosts who offered low monthly price packages
had a set up which made them more expensive that Phat and had a contract so if we
weren't happy we were screwed. Plus Phatservers has always given us wonderful customer
service. Working with dozens of Phatservers clients, some haven't been as happy
with the set up time, which is weird because after you're set up their tech support
is super quick.

Brian....

While most of your points are valid I think they are not on target in this case. First, projecting revenues "to the street" is not grounds for damages so no court is going to honor that as a legitimate proof of damages.

In the first term of a contract the company has many expenses that it plans to recoup during the course of the contract and hope to make a little money too. Like you said above, if the customer just ups and cancels for no reason then it stands to cause "damage" to the company for all of the money that was invested in the contract and the company has a right to sue for "damages". The official term is "liquidated damages". The contract term that we are discussing in this thread was fulfilled not once, not twice, but three times through the auto-renewal phase and, according to the customer, no more money was invested in hardware on this account prior to the original contract execution. Any judge with half common sense is going to look at this and call the damages that the company is suing for "punitive" and not "liquidated". Punitive damages in most states are not allowed in contract disputes...I know Georgia is one....not sure about California.

Again, let me reiterate....it is fun pretending to be a lawyer but Boneprone (the OP) should absolutely not take my advice and should speak directly to an attorney to decide what is best for his specific case.


--T

Thank you.

Yep. I think this is something everyone can agree on here.

However I have been tempted to call the Attorney that is after me and say hey lets make this disappear. What will you settle on. And then be done. Would save me some personal attorney fees if thats pretty much all he will be doing for me anyhow.

If this guy is willing to settle on 50% he may be just as willing to do that with me as he would my attorney correct?

Its time for damage control here for me and to minimize the $$ loss. For it looks like it will be a loss either way.

UPDATE:

It looks like they are willing to do a 50% settlement.
This is coming from Navisite directly. Not attorneys.

Should I just settle? Or does anyone think that hiring an attorney to battle/settle it with their local attorney that is here threating me is the way to go.

I always like a good fight and I really dont like to be pushed around. If this were me 3 years ago Id tell up to stick it up their ass and fight em.

If I go hire an attorney to fight this, you think Ill be getting anything better than 50% - Attorney fees?

Id be intrested to know.

DEAL OR NO DEAL?

whats the 50% equal to?

Id tell em 25%

tell them you are black and to stop being racist agianst yoou and call the ACLU and call Al Shaprton also to show up and rally at there offices

Deal or No Deal.
They are willing to do 50%.

I want to hear some serious responses.

I have a meeting with an attorney tomorrow. I could avoid a lot of $$ talking with him and fighting this right here.

I can accept this shakedown. It sounds like a lot of the pros here are saying they have a case with this shitty contract. 50% may be a good DEAL.

DEAL OR NO DEAL?

Eep.. No but I am getting ripped on my hosting. I'm gonna cancel it now. Too bad I'll be losing my data.

screw them man...contract for hosting? please...its a service

if you dont like the service you should 100% be in the right to go elsewhere.

hell after 6 months the servers are paid for...maybe after 3...they sure dont replace them every 3 months.

oc3 and oxeo all the way

Agreed. In Most cases, as you said, the lawyer letter puts a stop to most of the nonesense.

From James Spiller at Navisite:

"I have talked to Navisite Controller, and he has approved a 50% settlement. That would be a payment of $4,413.65"

I'm didn't read through all 8 pages to see if anyone offered, but if you still need KC's digits hit me up on ICQ

I have them...

Do I fight or do I settle?

I just got an offer here people.

Since this is Money that they have already written off, there is no risk for them, anything they get from you is Gravy. Remember also that winning their case is half the battle, then they have to collect and garnish funds if necessary , which is no easy task. Your atty will usually ask for a retainer to fight this while their atty is working off a percentage of collected funds. I would definitely have a first meeting with him and get an estimate on his projected costs to fight this, and then just do the math. Also Counter Navasite at 25% and see what they say, if you can come to a reasonable settlement it may be worth avoiding the time and money suck of fighting it.

Make sure you get a letter from their accounting showing the settlement in full upon receipt of your funds.

Seems they easily changed there minds from the full amount and sinking lawyer on ya down to "Ok just give us 50%"

Id still get a lawyer and go after them if ya decide to settle obviously get shit in writing and so on

I think with a good lawyer you can pretty much tell em "Go fuck a goat "

:pimp

From the sound of this, I dont need an attorney. I need a Guido that runs one of those electronic shops in NY or a Chinaman from ChinaTown.

Looks like they are willing to barter.

One other thing. In most cases like this the atty fees to fight it and the settlement end up pretty much a wash. What determines who fights and who doesn't is how angry the defendant is. If they are really pissed they would rather give the money to the lawyer, if they are not that angry and just want to move on, they settle.

tell em you are poor and just had to pay money for a triple testicle implant and can only afford 1500 bucks right now , and that the hospitals are after ya in court and so on bla bla ..... also tell em to go fuck a goat

You said they'll take 50%. Did you offer 50% or did they?
If you offered 50% it'll be harder to take that offer back.
If they offered 50%, they'll probably settle for a little less.

You can probably walk away for 1.5 months + your attorney fees, depending
on your state if you might end up paying other fees for their collection expenses.
So find out what the attorney will charge you. Is 1.5 months plus your attorney
fees less than or close to 50%?

I dont see why they would be angry with me?
Its not like I started a thread on the Industry's Largest Message Board talking about this shit.:winkwink:

Only 4000 people have seen this so far.

They offered 50%.

4500.00

I just countered.

I said 2800.00

Is that fair? If they accept ill do it.

One more tip to make this easier for you to swallow if you decide to settle....

Once you two agree on a dollar figure then go back to them and tell them that you cant afford to pay it all at once and ask them to break it up into 3 payments. It makes it easier for you to pay since you feel deep down inside that you don't owe it anyway.

Just a last option ;)


--T

Break 2800 into 3 payments? LOL.

Ok.

I hope they do go for 2800.00

I should be asking the Anal Hobbit for advice now.

It comes down to this... You either gave them notice or you didn't. The didn't is easy.

If you gave them notice on time, you tell them the contract is over, deal done.. and move on your way. Ignore them if needed, if they came after you it would open them up for legal problems that would end up paying you.

It's as simple as that.. You don't ever, pay for something that you didn't use, get, or agree on. No communication issues, email issues, or screwed up ICQ are excuses. Deal is done, it's done.

It's how trash companies try to make an extra dime when they have nothing else.. Don't let them win, don't give them a damn thing!

I would settle, because it will take a lot of time to sort this out - and in the end you will loose more...

Egomancer

tell them you will give them Itunes Gift cards instead of money

In terms of settlement, you need to ask yourself what you think an attorney can reasonably negotiate for you (not some pie in the sky idea where Navisite leaves you alone forever without collecting a dime because that's not going to happen....but the best deal a good negotiator would get you based on all the facts in play)
Then add to that number what you'll have to pay in attorney fees.

If that total number is more than the deal they're offering, you should take the deal.

FYI, get a full release in writing before sending them the funds. Should be a standard language form that the attorney has on hand that releases you from any further obligation to the company if you pay $X amount by X date.

DON'T send any money until you've received a letter like that signed by an officer of the company or their legal counsel. Otherwise the money you send could be considered a "payment towards the total you owe"

:2 cents:

Exactly.

In my experience a 50% settlement on a disputed debt -- especially one like this that's more-or-less legitimate -- is pretty standard. If you hire a lawyer, he'd be advising you to take it, pretty much without regard to the merits, because you're getting down into the territory where taking the settlement is cheaper than fighting.

I'd say, pay the man and move on with your campaign to make sure nobody in the business is ever again tempted to do business with these assholes.

yes...it is settled...jupiter hosting just fucked themselves in the ass...lol

I will pay them if they agree to my $$ terms.

$4,500.00 is just too much for me to swallow in shakedown money.
The Asian Gangster days are behind me and the personal principle alone on this wont allow me to do it. I think I would rather fight. Even if it ends up costing me a little more.

Ill keep you posted.
I hope they accept my 2800.00 offer. I do want to put this behind me.

Wow that sucks, move on over to NatNet babe.

;)

send them 3 pics of spiders with 7 legs

Whatever they offer, make sure you have it in wirting, not email. On paper. And make sure that they will not report it to the credit bureau as a bad debt.

Send them a drawing of a spider and tell them it is worth 5000.00 but you will accept a lower amount for the drawing in order to settle.

Totally fair; I was just making a prediction about what your lawyer may suggest based on common practice and the pure economics of the situation.

But sometimes, it's not just about the money. I have been there too. Sometimes you just gotta draw the line.

I do hope they take your $2800 offer.

BP, tbh if they suggested 50% from me, that'd pretty much just anger me, they have been nothing but headaches from me since I joined them so even half payment would be a HUGE ripoff to me (in my personal situation with them)

That is just me, but also I dont live in USA so it doesnt totally matter for me anyways I guess, but still, for my situation, if anybody owes anything, THEY should owe ME!

Just my :2 cents:

Nope I'm not

Dis is why i hosts wit da webair crew dey work wit you not against!

Great advice webair!


:thumbsup:pimp

Looks like they wanna play ball:

"The lowest we can go is $3500"
James P. Spiller
Supervisor of Credit / Collections

Whats my next move?

Like I said this had the feel of bartering in a chineese sweat shop

tell em , ok let me see cause i have to "borrow" money from my brother....

then come backa nd say I can only come up with 2500

then send a Goat to James P. Spiller with a note "fuck me" on it

seems they are hurting , over under on em being in biz is 6 months

http://www.childrensmuseum.org/cosmi.../jupiter_b.jpg

350