Electric cars... questions

[tical]

Maybe I'm not following 100% but how hard is it to work on getting electric engines into new cars rather than making an entire new line of electric car like the chevy volt?

Throw an electric engine in a CTS or a mustang or a civic... wtf is taking so long, 95% of the car is already done!

it seriously cant take THAT long to make an electric engine that works... there are a few companies out already doing it - what gives?

[cgu]

there are a few companies that'll convert any car you give them, its 25k+ so lets say you minus out 10k for the existing engine cost, is someone really going to pay 15k extra for the electric engine option when you can just buy the gas version and spend 4k to offset the carbon emissions for the life of the car. (wild assumption on the cost to offset on my part)

You can get a lotus elise for 25k on ebay, convert it for 25k, and have a 50k car about the same as a 100k tesla... or you can just buy the Elise and offset the carbon emissions and be in an even better position.

Honda & Toyota found out that people won't pay more for a hybrid engine option (civic/accord/camry/highlander), but a car that is ONLY hybrid sells well (prius)

The only way we're going to see electric cars is by making zero emissions the law and forcing solar power on all homes where the 15 year loan cost on a solar/wind/geo system is break even of less than the homes current energy costs.

[tical]

damn, nice insight

would be nice to see that happen & reduce dependence on foreign resources

[mynameisjim]

Not sure what the big love for electric cars is all about. Right now, electricity equates to about $3/gallon gas. If everyone had an electric car the price of electricity would skyrocket making them crazy expensive to operate and not to mention your household electric bill would go up just as well.

Unless we plan on building hundreds of new power plants. But I know by me, when it gets really hot, there are all kinds of black outs and that's just from air conditioners. Imagine if every car was plugged in at night, the whole country would black out.

Can someone explain how having millions of electric cars won't cause the price of electricity to skyrocket.

[WiredGuy]

You don't want electric cars until the power grid can be upgraded. Most cities are already at capacity for power needs that charging their cars on the same grid would be too much. Hybrids is the first step, then let the government upgrade infrastructure for power and then it'll be time to roll out electric cars.
WG

[tical]

ahh i see... what about hydrogen?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by cgu

The only way we're going to see electric cars is by making zero emissions the law and forcing solar power on all homes where the 15 year loan cost on a solar/wind/geo system is break even of less than the homes current energy costs.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

You don't want electric cars until the power grid can be upgraded. Most cities are already at capacity for power needs that charging their cars on the same grid would be too much. Hybrids is the first step, then let the government upgrade infrastructure for power and then it'll be time to roll out electric cars.
WG

Most grids run under-capacity when people are sleeping. Hence why energy is usually discounted at those times. I can't remember the exact numbers, but the current grid can support 10's of millions of electric cars in daily use, long as they are set to charge on timers (as most people would to get discounted energy and it's just the most common sense time).

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_d...model_S_unveil

Tesla Model S. Being fully unveiled on March 26. Looks interesting.

[AgentCash]

I remember coming across a few small garages in California that would do the electric conversion for $4k-$8k. The main downfall right now is battery weight & capacity. You're looking at a range of 150 miles in the best case scenario. For most people that will do just fine, as they can rent a car for long trips.

No more oil changes, 2-3 cents per mile on your electric bill, not a bad deal for everyday drivers.

Originally Posted by AgentCash

I remember coming across a few small garages in California that would do the electric conversion for $4k-$8k. The main downfall right now is battery weight & capacity. You're looking at a range of 150 miles in the best case scenario. For most people that will do just fine, as they can rent a car for long trips.

No more oil changes, 2-3 cents per mile on your electric bill, not a bad deal for everyday drivers.

The problem with long travels could be solved by putting electric charging stations at the regular gas stations. Those power chargers can charge the electric car in 10 - 15 minutes.

[HomerSimpson]

Originally Posted by Gasper

The problem with long travels could be solved by putting electric charging stations at the regular gas stations. Those power chargers can charge the electric car in 10 - 15 minutes.

Yeah this could also be a good solution, since you need some rest every 200-300 miles, you could get something to eat, drink some coffee and rest before continuing the trip. This would probably even lower the number of accidents on the roads since drivers would be more relaxed...

[Gerco]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Kil...lectric_Car%3F

[Tom_PM]

Ideally you dont go electric until you are already solar, then you charge mostly free. Also dont forget that charging electric from home, even if you're on the grid.. the emissions around your family and self are cut. At least it'll be out of your neighborhood and thats a start.

Also consider that by paying up front for your solar/wind technology now, you are locking in your fuel costs! Find me one public utility that has not raised prices at every opportunity it's ever had in the past 50 yrs. Really cant do it. People say "ohh it'll take 10 years for it to "break even"". Well thats usually incorrectly based on todays energy prices, not EVER moving or changing, and also leaves off the fact that after you're even, you are free. When does your utility or gasoline supplier allow you to have it for free? Thats a fair comparison.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Im all for electric cars but one thing needs to be addressed. There is not enough electricity to charge the cars.

My idea is to have a "charging" doc that you can buy with the car that is basically a solar powered generator with a plug that you plug into your car. For the extra couple grand for the charging dock you would have a car that is 100% free to charge.

But governments can not tax as much as they can tax gas (40 cents to $1 a gallon or whatever your state has it at)

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by Chief

Most grids run under-capacity when people are sleeping. Hence why energy is usually discounted at those times. I can't remember the exact numbers, but the current grid can support 10's of millions of electric cars in daily use, long as they are set to charge on timers (as most people would to get discounted energy and it's just the most common sense time).

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_d...model_S_unveil

Tesla Model S. Being fully unveiled on March 26. Looks interesting.

Don't forget a lot of energy is still being produced by coal/oil or by other "dirty" means. The energy grid is definitely under utilized at night, but the idea of polluting with old technology isn't going to fly. The older energy producers need to convert to nuclear/hydro/wind before a major push to electric cars is done.
WG

[Odin]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Don't forget a lot of energy is still being produced by coal/oil or by other "dirty" means. The energy grid is definitely under utilized at night, but the idea of polluting with old technology isn't going to fly. The older energy producers need to convert to nuclear/hydro/wind before a major push to electric cars is done.
WG

This debate has been run over a million times to be honest. Whilst it is a true point, (and I don't have the exact numbers at hands, I suggest you check Tesla's website as they do) even the dirtiest methods of electricity generation (coal, etc) are much more efficient (by the nature of the size of their operations, the technology, etc) and cleaner than petroleum based automobiles. All the math, etc is out there though, but it is a non-issue to rely on coal as a stepping stone - as I said it's still a hell of a lot cleaner the using internal combustion engines.

[Tom_PM]

Also, the coal plant emissions are... at the coal plant, and not gasoline emmisions out of your tailpipe.

It's funny how we have "second hand smoke" laws, and yet right at the curb in even a small town there is just a fog of carcinogens masked by denial. The second hand smoke is so small as to be virtually immeasurable in such an environment. Just priorities really.

[jakethedog]

a thought I had regarding electricity cost sky rocketing would be to have solar power charging one or more banks of batteries at your home over the day and when you come home to charge you vehicle you draw from the existing power reserve you have stored via solar power .. this is more likely to be viable in the southern states .. ( where most of the population is anyway )

Got some spare 8.5k? Then buy an electric car today

http://brainbuggy.com/index.php?main...oducts_ id=70

[BradM]

If you guys want to read more on electric cars, I would suggest checking out: www.ecomodder.com

[Tom_PM]

Originally Posted by jakethedog

a thought I had regarding electricity cost sky rocketing would be to have solar power charging one or more banks of batteries at your home over the day and when you come home to charge you vehicle you draw from the existing power reserve you have stored via solar power .. this is more likely to be viable in the southern states .. ( where most of the population is anyway )

It's viable everywhere Unless you're under a canopy of trees or buildings etc. But even the most overcast areas can still offset a lot of grid power, and even help feed the grid.
Not to mention wind. In the more overcast areas, the rebate's are larger typically as well.
In NY, you can get back up to 60% of the cost in rebates and tax breaks.

Check details on state and federal programs for the entire usa here: http://www.dsireusa.org/

[John-ACWM]

sounds easy but some people will lose some money that way...everybody is protecting their interest

[who]

I sail electric-atv.com cheep

[Tom_PM]

The way you are utterly guaranteed to NEVER pay less is by doing nothing and driving a gasoline powered vehicle and using grid supplied power. You absolutely, without question, will NEVER pay less than you do today. It's guaranteed!

[Adam X]

electric conversion shops.. hmm..
fair to say its a bit more complex and involved than most people think?
I'm not sure I'd trust a conversion method... getting something new from a respect leader makes more sense to me.

the dodge ev is the shit.. can't wait to see this thing hit the market..

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7289

just add: a new way to create electricity for recharging (ala solar) and wahlaa, you've got a method to help recharge your car so as not to create a shortage of electricity nationwide when everyone starts buying and using these cars.

[Janak]

The 2006 Documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?" is worth watching if you're interested in the technology. It addresses a lot of the points raised in this thread.