Dow crashes 300 points... fuck hope - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

uno · 03-02-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD

Good answer. As Kane said, voting for any of the other candidates or anyone else on the planet for that matter (including you) would not have prevented the Dow from dropping today.

I get it, you hate Obama. But blaming the economy, the stocks falling or any of the rest of this mess on the people who voted for him is simply not fair.

The guy's barely been in office to get a piece of paper signed, much less get a tanking economy fixed and you're shouting from the roof tops of how he failed.

Why are you making a ton of threads about how Bush did nothing to prevent this when he had the chance??

That is what Rush told them to do so they must obey.

Mike Semen · 03-02-2009, 04:33 PM

Yup, Obama inherited a fucked world economy and a whole bunch of people as stupid as Splum to take care of.

Be lucky Barack...

billywatson · 03-02-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

And Obama just fucked you, your children and this country for a long time in less than a month on the job. Obama HAS changed the world, for the worst.

How bout then you just leave?

Seriously, go away. No one wants to hear what you have to say anyway. Just go sit in a corner and wait for the world to end.

In the meantime, the rest of us have things to accomplish.

SpeakEasy · 03-02-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Fickle? The DOW CLOSED TODAY AT LEVELS NOT SEEN IN 12 YEARS. Hows that fickle for you fuck face? People are losing entire life savings, 401ks bye bye, college money gone.

This is YOUR fault for voting for him and there will be a day of reckoning for you people, and its coming soon.

Actually this all has Nothing to do with Obama yet. Give the dude sometime to see if his Ideas work or not. But it's obvious the last presidents did not.

notime · 03-02-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeakEasy

Actually this all has Nothing to do with Obama yet. Give the dude sometime to see if his Ideas work or not. But it's obvious the last presidents did not.

The Duck · 03-02-2009, 04:47 PM

Bush and Obama are equally bad and equally uninterested of the welfare of the populus.

V_RocKs · 03-02-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Fickle? The DOW CLOSED TODAY AT LEVELS NOT SEEN IN 12 YEARS. Hows that fickle for you fuck face? People are losing entire life savings, 401ks bye bye, college money gone.

This is YOUR fault for voting for him and there will be a day of reckoning for you people, and its coming soon.

If McCain got the Presidency. We'd be saying the same shit... Only it'd be December, 2008 and not March, 2009... And then the Dems would get the last laugh because they could rightfully say you got us into this mess and now you have us swimming in it for 4 fucking years!

Name 1 Democrat policy that got us into this mess!

I can name 1 Republican one that got us here: De-Regulation!

And I can name a Republican ideal that got us here: A sucker is born every minute. Here is another one: Take what you can get and don't care about others well being.

People are losing their homes because Republicans don't give a shit about anything except for themselves.... Capitalist ideals at their finest. Unfortunately when that happens you end up with a nation in shambles.

CIVMatt · 03-02-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Fickle? The DOW CLOSED TODAY AT LEVELS NOT SEEN IN 12 YEARS. Hows that fickle for you fuck face? People are losing entire life savings, 401ks bye bye, college money gone.

This is YOUR fault for voting for him and there will be a day of reckoning for you people, and its coming soon.

Quoted for truth...

I wish people would see that Democrats are just as guilty as Republicans, and it's just more of the same with different branding

cykoe6 · 03-02-2009, 04:54 PM

There is plenty of blame on both sides of the aisle for getting us into this mess. That is not the current issue however. The current issue is Obama's disastrous, wasteful spending spree which is a perfect recipe for stagflation.

In a couple of years as the deficits balloon to almost unimaginable amounts, interest rates will need to rise to attract more buyers for treasury bonds to fund the massive deficits (already the Chinese are balking). At the same time the value of the Dollar will fall and inflation will increase as the money supply increases.

These are same mistakes made in the 70's which led to stagflation. We have managed to elect Jimmy Carter all over again. It is going to be a long 4 years.

tony286 · 03-02-2009, 04:58 PM

sorry your party screamed for deregulation this is where it got us and now its everyone's fault.

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

There is plenty of blame on both sides of the aisle for getting us into this mess. That is not the current issue however. The current issue is Obama's disastrous, wasteful spending spree which is a perfect recipe for stagflation.

In a couple of years as the deficits balloon to almost unimaginable amounts, interest rates will need to rise to attract more buyers for treasury bonds to fund the massive deficits (already the Chinese are balking). At the same time the value of the Dollar will fall and inflation will increase as the money supply increases.

These are same mistakes made in the 70's which led to stagflation. We have managed to elect Jimmy Carter all over again. It is going to be a long 4 years.

I think stagflation is more an issue with fixing the banks. If the banks can get back to normal it will fix some of the unemployment issues.

I'd also point out that while we're seeing some higher inflation numbers, it's nowhere remotely close to what we saw under Carter. The Fed and the Treasury have handled this economic crisis much better than it was handled back then and I don't think it's going to be as much a factor.

cykoe6 · 03-02-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

sorry your party screamed for deregulation this is where it got us and now its everyone's fault.

This crisis has nothing to do with deregulation and everything to do with Chris Dodd and Barney Frank forcing lenders to make bad loans or face lawsuits for racial discrimination and then allowing Freddie and Fanny to buy the bad loans at the same time fighting any efforts to place lending limits on Fannie or Freddie.

I challenge you to explain what deregulation has to do with any of this.

Even if you were right what does that have to do with Obama's insane deficit spending spree? Mistakes made in the past do not justify bad polices toady.

tony286 · 03-02-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

This crisis has nothing to do with deregulation and everything to do with Chris Dodd and Barney Frank forcing lenders to make bad loans or face lawsuits for racial discrimination and then allowing Freddie and Fanny to buy the bad loans at the same time fighting any efforts to place lending limits on Fannie or Freddie.

I challenge you to explain what deregulation has to do with any of this.

Even if you were right what does that have to do with Obama's insane deficit spending spree? Mistakes made in the past do not justify bad polices toady.

yeah chris dodd and barney frank thats too funny. Phil Gramm he fucked this country and for doing such a good job he got vice chairman of a fucking bank. only 3 out of 10 subprime loans fall under CRA.

cykoe6 · 03-02-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I think stagflation is more an issue with fixing the banks. If the banks can get back to normal it will fix some of the unemployment issues.

I'd also point out that while we're seeing some higher inflation numbers, it's nowhere remotely close to what we saw under Carter. The Fed and the Treasury have handled this economic crisis much better than it was handled back then and I don't think it's going to be as much a factor.

Inflation is under control now but most of the proposed spending has not yet occurred. Once Obama's huge spending plans kick in then spiraling deficits, rising interest rates, and hyperinflation are a near certainty.

TyroneGoldberg · 03-02-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kandah

Bush and Obama are equally bad and equally uninterested of the welfare of the populus.

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

This crisis has nothing to do with deregulation and everything to do with Chris Dodd and Barney Frank forcing lenders to make bad loans or face lawsuits for racial discrimination and then allowing Freddie and Fanny to buy the bad loans at the same time fighting any efforts to place lending limits on Fannie or Freddie.

I challenge you to explain what deregulation has to do with any of this.

Even if you were right what does that have to do with Obama's insane deficit spending spree? Mistakes made in the past do not justify bad polices toady.

The forced loans weren't the problem. Only 1 of the top 25 subprime lenders in this country were under the CRA umbrella. The subprime problems came from financial companies that weren't treated as banks and thus not forced to lend to anyone. The CRA thing was just a debunked talking point put out to blame the mess on poor blacks. It's laughed at by just about every economist and financial analyst.

cykoe6 · 03-02-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

yeah chris dodd and barney frank thats too funny. Phil Gramm he fucked this country and for doing such a good job he got vice chairman of a fucking bank. only 3 out of 10 subprime loans fall under CRA. So please try again.

I would like you to explain what Phil Gramm did that has led to the current crisis. Try being specific. A trip to the Huffington Post for research may help you a little. At least get your propaganda straight.

Perhaps Bob Rubin is to blame for being the main force behind pushing Citibank into its sub-prime loans strategy? Or is that also Phil Gramm's fault? Do I need to go to HuffPo and copy and paste your response for you?

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Inflation is under control now but most of the proposed spending has not yet occurred. Once Obama's huge spending plans kick in then spiraling deficits, rising interest rates, and hyperinflation are a near certainty.

They've stated that they've already factored in future inflation into the equation. They've accepted that it's a necessary evil to get us out of the recession. The question is whether they can control that inflation and bring it back to normal. Inflation is much easier to control than the other problems facing the country though.

cykoe6 · 03-02-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The forced loans weren't the problem. Only 1 of the top 25 subprime lenders in this country were under the CRA umbrella. The subprime problems came from financial companies that weren't treated as banks and thus not forced to lend to anyone. The CRA thing was just a debunked talking point put out to blame the mess on poor blacks. It's laughed at by just about every economist and financial analyst.

Regardless of the amount of subprime loans under the CRA do you deny that Frank and Dodd blocked legislation to place lending limits on Freddie and Fannie while at the same time receiving campaign cash and sweetheart loans from Countrywide Financial?

BlackCrayon · 03-02-2009, 05:21 PM

the economy has to stop relying on the stock market as an indicator. Its just plain dumb. Its based on fear, rumours and following the heard. Much like lemmings. These guys screw themselves over time and time again by selling out when they get scared.

Snake Doctor · 03-02-2009, 05:22 PM

I take comfort in the fact that all the republitards can do at this point is bitch, because they have absolutely no power whatsoever.
They can't even sustain a filibuster realistically. Too many republican Senators from blue/purple states up for re-election in 2010.....and Obama is incredibly popular (68%)

I take comfort in knowing that for at least 10 years, but if they don't fuck it up then for probably 30 years, progressives will dominate all branches of the government.
We may get a republican president in there somewhere, but he'll be about as much of a republican as Bill Clinton was a democrat.

It's about time we caught up to Western Europe anyways.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I take comfort in the fact that..

The country you live in will be broke and powerless at best and you dont want to even think about the worst case scenario. Dont worry you wont last long in the lawlessness that will become the USA. Take comfort in that.

Ethersync · 03-02-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

considering that each time that he or someone in his administration talks about the economy/plans/bailout, the stock market tanks.. uhmm.. i think its fair to draw a direct correlation..

This is true. The market has called "bullshit" on everything this administration has come up with. Obama has done absolutely nothing to instill confidence and he came into power with a large surplus of "hope". While we can not blame him for the problems we can point the finger at him for how things have been handled so far.

I wish he would shit can Tim Geitner and bring in someone like Volcker. It would at least stabilize the markets some...

cykoe6 · 03-02-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The forced loans weren't the problem. Only 1 of the top 25 subprime lenders in this country were under the CRA umbrella. The subprime problems came from financial companies that weren't treated as banks and thus not forced to lend to anyone. The CRA thing was just a debunked talking point put out to blame the mess on poor blacks. It's laughed at by just about every economist and financial analyst.

Even if I was willing to accept every single left wing talking point about the origins of the problem I will never agree that massive deficit spending and a huge increase in the size of government is the answer. Trying to re-inflate the credit bubble through massive government spending increases is a suicidally stupid path.

Obama is using the crisis to push through a massive expansion of government spending and programs at the worst possible time. It is criminally irresponsible. Fiscal discipline is the answer.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

the economy has to stop relying on the stock market as an indicator. Its just plain dumb. Its based on fear, rumours and following the heard. Much like lemmings. These guys screw themselves over time and time again by selling out when they get scared.

These "guys" are losing millions of dollars there is a "reason" they are scared. It isnt just the stock market. Economic growth declined 6% last quarter (6 fucking percent dude), unemployment in some states (michigan for instance) is OVER 10%, dude open your fucking eyes. The greatest depression is barely underway and all you people can say is oh its just fear tactics. This is real shit dude, this is no fucking joke, when 50% of American wealth has been wiped thats a HUGE problem for everyone.

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Regardless of the amount of subprime loans under the CRA do you deny that Frank and Dodd blocked legislation to place lending limits on Freddie and Fannie while at the same time receiving campaign cash and sweetheart loans from Countrywide Financial?

No I don't, but I still don't completely blame it on them. It's the fault of bad businessmen, dumb borrowers, and greedy investors. The fault of many Americans who didn't realize that their home doubling in price every 5 years wasn't normal. No one held a gun to Fannie Mae's head and told them to leverage themselves too much. No one held a gun to the guy making $30k a year and told him to take out a $500k mortgage.

BlackCrayon · 03-02-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

These "guys" are losing millions of dollars there is a "reason" they are scared. It isnt just the stock market. Economic growth declined 6% last quarter (6 fucking percent dude), unemployment in some states (michigan for instance) is OVER 10%, dude open your fucking eyes. The greatest depression is barely underway and all you people can say is oh its just fear tactics. This is real shit dude, this is no fucking joke, when 50% of American wealth has been wiped thats a HUGE problem for everyone.

People were stupid to think they can rely on an imaginary system of losses and gains to support their retirement or college funds. Its definitely a problem and very sad that so many were duped into believing such a system could never go through whats its doing now.

OG LennyT · 03-02-2009, 05:30 PM

My portfolio dropped 30% in the last two weeks... hate to dump stock at this much of a loss

Ethersync · 03-02-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I take comfort in the fact that all the republitards can do at this point is bitch, because they have absolutely no power whatsoever.
They can't even sustain a filibuster realistically. Too many republican Senators from blue/purple states up for re-election in 2010.....and Obama is incredibly popular (68%)

I take comfort in knowing that for at least 10 years, but if they don't fuck it up then for probably 30 years, progressives will dominate all branches of the government.
We may get a republican president in there somewhere, but he'll be about as much of a republican as Bill Clinton was a democrat.

It's about time we caught up to Western Europe anyways.

Again more stupid partisan rants. You are insulting your own intelligence with posts like this

How do we need to catch up with Western Europe?

Ethersync · 03-02-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OG LennyT

My portfolio dropped 30% in the last two weeks... hate to dump stock at this much of a loss

What stocks do you have?

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Even if I was willing to accept every single left wing talking point about the origins of the problem I will never agree that massive deficit spending and a huge increase in the size of government is the answer. Trying to re-inflate the credit bubble through massive government spending increases is a suicidally stupid path.

Obama is using the crisis to push through a massive expansion of government spending and programs at the worst possible time. It is criminally irresponsible. Fiscal discipline is the answer.

I am not versed enough in economics to know whether the spending is right or wrong. I know there are economists on both sides of the argument who feel strongly about it. We will find out one way or another in the coming years. Lets hope that it does work.

It isn't really a massive expansion of spending. We've been spending like this for the last 8 years. The difference being that under Bush the spending was for wars seen as mistakes and under Obama it's for domestic projects. I have no problem with people bashing unnecessary spending, but I do find it ironic to see people on the right side of the aisle take issue with it now. They didn't seem to care over the past 8 years when we doubled our national debt, but one month into a Demoratic President and the world is coming to an end.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

No I don't, but I still don't completely blame it on them. It's the fault of bad businessmen, dumb borrowers, and greedy investors. The fault of many Americans who didn't realize that their home doubling in price every 5 years wasn't normal. No one held a gun to Fannie Mae's head and told them to leverage themselves too much. No one held a gun to the guy making $30k a year and told him to take out a $500k mortgage.

I hate you but completely agree with you here. Regardless the Obama administration is handling this like a complete fucking amateur morons. There isnt a SINGLE thing they have done that will help the credit markets to get moving again(which would solve about 50% of the problem we have with company cash hording right now). They could nationalize the banks and weed out the bad ones or they could just let them fail, both are WAY better options than what they have done with this "stimulus" bill. The bill does nothing but delays some unemployment numbers, socialize more programs and lowers the value of American currency.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

People were stupid to think they can rely on an imaginary system of losses and gains to support their retirement or college funds. Its definitely a problem and very sad that so many were duped into believing such a system could never go through whats its doing now.

So I take it you dont like to make money by investing? So you have no bank account? You have no 401k? You have no mortgage? If you have none of those things then I will defer my argument, but I highly doubt you think capitolism is a bad thing.

notoldschool · 03-02-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Fickle? The DOW CLOSED TODAY AT LEVELS NOT SEEN IN 12 YEARS. Hows that fickle for you fuck face? People are losing entire life savings, 401ks bye bye, college money gone.

This is YOUR fault for voting for him and there will be a day of reckoning for you people, and its coming soon.

You are the lowest form of intelligence, right below a snail. Dont you understand that anyone with average intelligence knows your statements are basically the ramblings of a semi retarded racist? Fuck you and the Bush you rode in on.

GO BAMA!

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

These "guys" are losing millions of dollars there is a "reason" they are scared. It isnt just the stock market. Economic growth declined 6% last quarter (6 fucking percent dude), unemployment in some states (michigan for instance) is OVER 10%, dude open your fucking eyes. The greatest depression is barely underway and all you people can say is oh its just fear tactics. This is real shit dude, this is no fucking joke, when 50% of American wealth has been wiped thats a HUGE problem for everyone.

The problem is that the wealth you are talking about never really existed. It was a phantom economy. Packaging up a $20 bill and selling it over and over for profits. Nothing tangible was created, nothing of value.

So yes, people are getting destroyed right now. But these people also chose to invest their money into companies and products that were built on nothing. Companies that tried to make money on leveraging money they didn't have. It truly sucks for people, but hopefully it's a lesson in the future for people to research what they are doing with their money. These people lost money because they chose to blindly accept their big annual returns the last 10 years without taking a minute to think how they were doing it.

Ethersync · 03-02-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The Republican/Democrat bullshit is for simpletons. Get some opinions of your own guys.

notoldschool · 03-02-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Even if I was willing to accept every single left wing talking point about the origins of the problem I will never agree that massive deficit spending and a huge increase in the size of government is the answer. Trying to re-inflate the credit bubble through massive government spending increases is a suicidally stupid path.

Obama is using the crisis to push through a massive expansion of government spending and programs at the worst possible time. It is criminally irresponsible. Fiscal discipline is the answer.

Why left wing talking points? Your idiotic god fearing redneck righties were the ones who fucked our economy and now because Americans (even the dumb ones) realized that the country is too important to be ran by neo con artists.

Thank moses Mccain got his ass handed to him.

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

I hate you but completely agree with you here. Regardless the Obama administration is handling this like a complete fucking amateur morons. There isnt a SINGLE thing they have done that will help the credit markets to get moving again(which would solve about 50% of the problem we have with company cash hording right now). They could nationalize the banks and weed out the bad ones or they could just let them fail, both are WAY better options than what they have done with this "stimulus" bill. The bill does nothing but delays some unemployment numbers, socialize more programs and lowers the value of American currency.

The problem with the Obama administration so far is that they don't understand that all that matters is the banks. The banks are EVERYTHING to this economy. Strong banks fix the unemployment problems which fix a ton of other things. They've been avoiding this problem while they ballyhoo over stimulus packages and rebate checks. What they don't realize is that none of it matters if the banks remain broken.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The problem is that the wealth you are talking about never really existed. It was a phantom economy. Packaging up a $20 bill and selling it over and over for profits. Nothing tangible was created, nothing of value.

So yes, people are getting destroyed right now. But these people also chose to invest their money into companies and products that were built on nothing. Companies that tried to make money on leveraging money they didn't have. It truly sucks for people, but hopefully it's a lesson in the future for people to research what they are doing with their money. These people lost money because they chose to blindly accept their big annual returns the last 10 years without taking a minute to think how they were doing it.

Yes many stupid decisions by many people on all levels from top of the government down to the average home buyer BUT those decisions and their outcome have screwed the entire world and Obama just put salt on an open wound by pushing a bill through congress that does nothing to help the problems, let me repeat this bill does NOTHING to help unfreeze the credit markets, or deleverage the massive debt out there. half the bill shifts the debt to the taxpayers and the other half of the bill is meant to make the Democratic party look like they are helping people so they stay in power.

pocketkangaroo · 03-02-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Yes many stupid decisions by many people on all levels from top of the government down to the average home buyer BUT those decisions and their outcome have screwed the entire world and Obama just put salt on an open wound by pushing a bill through congress that does nothing to help the problems, let me repeat this bill does NOTHING to help unfreeze the credit markets, or deleverage the massive debt out there. half the bill shifts the debt to the taxpayers and the other half of the bill is meant to make the Democratic party look like they are helping people so they stay in power.

I would incline to agree. But I'm not an economist so I don't think my opinion holds much weight. I do hope I'm wrong though and that they know what they are talking about.

Snake Doctor · 03-02-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Again more stupid partisan rants. You are insulting your own intelligence with posts like this

How do we need to catch up with Western Europe?

Three words.

Universal Health Care.

And the unfortunate political reality is that it took the republitards fucking up this badly for a democrat to have the political capital to push something like that through.

CosmicTang · 03-02-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I am not versed enough in economics to know whether the spending is right or wrong.

No one is, that's why we have to listen to them all argue. Economists tell you what the economy is going to do based on some action, then afterwards they'll explain why it didn't work out that way.

FTR-I believe it was the Clinton admin that allowed the banks to start selling those insane mortgages to people.

The Bush White House pointed out in 2002 that they saw this as becoming a problem, but Congress did fuckall about it.

Not to be outdone by his predecessor, Bush allowed the credit lobbies to write their own regs before allowing them to become law.

There is plenty of blame to throw around, but the guy who's been on the job a month isn't one of them....yet.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Three words. Universal Health Care. And the unfortunate political reality is that it took the republitards fucking up this badly for a democrat to have the political capital to push something like that through.

Universal health care wont help you when the rednecks take you liberals to the back woods for some fun lol.

What a fucking joke, the world is going through a depression where most people will be lucky to eat and all this fucktard can think about is if he gets his health care free. Un-fucking-believable.

VividJess · 03-02-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

No one is, that's why we have to listen to them all argue. Economists tell you what the economy is going to do based on some action, then afterwards they'll explain why it didn't work out that way.

FTR-I believe it was the Clinton admin that allowed the banks to start selling those insane mortgages to people.

The Bush White House pointed out in 2002 that they saw this as becoming a problem, but Congress did fuckall about it.

Not to be outdone by his predecessor, Bush allowed the credit lobbies to write their own regs before allowing them to become law.

There is plenty of blame to throw around, but the guy who's been on the job a month isn't one of them....yet.

Good points Lorenzo...although I have seen my 401k tank recently....and my stock from Motorola? Forget about it. I have had that since 2003...um..yeah. Not so much.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

There is plenty of blame to throw around, but the guy who's been on the job a month isn't one of them....yet.

Bullshit, his "stimulus" bill just compounded the problem. The markets know that and investors and companies have reacted accordingly. Obama HAS made this problem worse.

Snake Doctor · 03-02-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Universal health care wont help you when the rednecks take you liberals to the back woods for some fun lol.

What a fucking joke, the world is going through a depression where most people will be lucky to eat and all this fucktard can think about is if he gets his health care free. Un-fucking-believable.

You're really close to my ignore list dipshit.

Do you have anything relevant to add? I appreciate a good debate, I really do, but you're just driveling hateful nonsense that has no basis in reality.

The rednecks are going to take me to the woods for fun?
Would that involve sodomy or something to do with guns? You say shit like that and then expect people to take your views on economics and politics seriously?

FWIW, and not that it matters because you won't read it or reply with anything relevant or intelligent....universal doesn't mean free, it means universal. Nothing is free.

You would think that the party that champions entrepreneurship and small business would want to do something for all the people out there who want to start a new business but can't because if they left their job they'd lose their health care....or the person who wants to go work for a new small business but can't leave his job with a big company for the same reason.

notoldschool · 03-02-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Universal health care wont help you when the rednecks take you liberals to the back woods for some fun lol.

drop a dumb redneck in the middle of ghetto and lets see who gets taken out back. LOL fuck socially conservative faggots.

kane · 03-02-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

This crisis has nothing to do with deregulation and everything to do with Chris Dodd and Barney Frank forcing lenders to make bad loans or face lawsuits for racial discrimination and then allowing Freddie and Fanny to buy the bad loans at the same time fighting any efforts to place lending limits on Fannie or Freddie.

I challenge you to explain what deregulation has to do with any of this.

Even if you were right what does that have to do with Obama's insane deficit spending spree? Mistakes made in the past do not justify bad polices toady.

The forced loans were not the major problem. The major problem were banks like Washington Mutual (and to some degree Fannie and Freddy) giving loans to people they knew couldn't pay them (and the people who took them knowing they couldn't pay are equally responsible at this level) then packaging them up and selling them. The seller then resells them and that buy splits them up and sells them again and those buyers use these mortgages as a base for an investment portfolio. So there is tons of money generated from selling what will ultimately end up being a bad loan. The one that gets screwed is the last company caught holding the hot potato. Everyone downstream got their commission and made their money so they don't care. There were entire fortunes made based on these loans (as well as credit default swaps and the insuring of those swaps that went along with them) so when the loans went bad it brought it down like a house of cards.

Nobody held a gun to these banks heads and forced them to give out these loans, they did it simply for profit and they helped to set off a chain reaction.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

- blame the banks that willingly gave out these loans (not forced loans under that law, but subprime loans they did not have to give and gave anyway)
- blame the people who took the loans knowing they could not pay them back. Or who were not smart enough to ask how much their payments may go up when the fixed 5 year rate expires.
- blame people who watched 2 episodes of Flip That House and thought with a subprime loan they could be the next Trump only to get in at the wrong time and get stuck with a couple of houses they can't sell and can't pay for.
- blame greenspan for pushing banks and suggesting to everyone that they use a VAR loan because of the low interest rates.
- blame the republicans for their non-stop pursuit of deregulation.
- blame the democrats for not fighting the deregulation, for not working hard to put in some kind of oversight and for starting the ball rolling with their laws that created the forced subprime loans (while many of these loans are not the problem, they showed the way to the greedy and helped them gear up and sell them in mass)
- blame wall street for buying and selling loans they knew were bad in an effort to make a quick buck and not be the one caught with the loans when they went bad.

I'm sure there are many others to blame including banks and companies that begged for bailout money and spent it on stupid shit as well as banks who are unwilling to work with home owners to help them stay in the house with a refinance deal. instead they foreclose and bring the value of that house and all around it down.

Obama is basically trying the New Deal style of stimulus. He is hoping that his plan can create a decent amount of jobs to put people to work and that these jobs will last 1-3 years (depending on what the job is). By the time the job comes to end hopefully the economy will have rebounded and there will be more private sector jobs being created and these people can transition from the stimulus job into a private sector job. That said there is no excuse for some of the worthless pork crap spending that is in the bill.

CosmicTang · 03-02-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splum

Bullshit, his "stimulus" bill just compounded the problem. The markets know that and investors and companies have reacted accordingly. Obama HAS made this problem worse.

Allow me to posit that the markets don't know shit, for if they had we wouldn't be here in the first place. They had a decade or more of deregulation and a free hand to do what they thought was best and we're in an economic meltdown that's gone global.

So either they're the dumbest motherfuckers making 9 figures, or they're just that greedy. Either way they've had their shot and they screwed up...HUGE. Now they want to say they know what's best for the markets? You go ahead and trust them.

Splum · 03-02-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Do you have anything relevant to add? I appreciate a good debate, I really do, but you're just driveling hateful nonsense that has no basis in reality.

Oh you mean nonsense like spending hundreds of billions of dollars on new social programs in order to "stimulate" the economy? Or maybe you mean nonsense like giving out billions to pork barrel projects stuffing it into the "stimulus" bill. Or maybe you mean nonsense like Obama swearing he wouldnt sign a bill with earmarks and then turning around and signing one. Or maybe nonsense like while the country is facing a decade long depression he is partying it up at the White... err I mean Black House.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...DV3cQD96M06J02

03-02-2009, 04:33 PM	#52
Mike Semen Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: London Town Posts: 2,924	Yup, Obama inherited a fucked world economy and a whole bunch of people as stupid as Splum to take care of. Be lucky Barack... __________________ ICQ 1454 81 522 \|

03-02-2009, 04:47 PM	#56
The Duck Adult Content Provider Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 18,243	Bush and Obama are equally bad and equally uninterested of the welfare of the populus. __________________ Skype Horusmaia ICQ 41555245 Email [email protected]

03-02-2009, 04:54 PM	#59
cykoe6 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vegas Posts: 4,499	There is plenty of blame on both sides of the aisle for getting us into this mess. That is not the current issue however. The current issue is Obama's disastrous, wasteful spending spree which is a perfect recipe for stagflation. In a couple of years as the deficits balloon to almost unimaginable amounts, interest rates will need to rise to attract more buyers for treasury bonds to fund the massive deficits (already the Chinese are balking). At the same time the value of the Dollar will fall and inflation will increase as the money supply increases. These are same mistakes made in the 70's which led to stagflation. We have managed to elect Jimmy Carter all over again. It is going to be a long 4 years. __________________ бабки, шлюхи, сила

03-02-2009, 05:21 PM	#70
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	the economy has to stop relying on the stock market as an indicator. Its just plain dumb. Its based on fear, rumours and following the heard. Much like lemmings. These guys screw themselves over time and time again by selling out when they get scared. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

03-02-2009, 05:22 PM	#71
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	I take comfort in the fact that all the republitards can do at this point is bitch, because they have absolutely no power whatsoever. They can't even sustain a filibuster realistically. Too many republican Senators from blue/purple states up for re-election in 2010.....and Obama is incredibly popular (68%) I take comfort in knowing that for at least 10 years, but if they don't fuck it up then for probably 30 years, progressives will dominate all branches of the government. We may get a republican president in there somewhere, but he'll be about as much of a republican as Bill Clinton was a democrat. It's about time we caught up to Western Europe anyways. __________________ sig too big

03-02-2009, 04:58 PM	#60
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	sorry your party screamed for deregulation this is where it got us and now its everyone's fault.

03-02-2009, 05:30 PM	#78
OG LennyT Wall Street Pimp Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 14,345	My portfolio dropped 30% in the last two weeks... hate to dump stock at this much of a loss __________________ Tradeking - my online broker \| 4.95 a trade \| make real $$