Another US ship attacked

[Sly]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090415/...lia_piracy_107

I think it's sort of ironic that both ships were delivering food aid to Africa... LOL.

[LiveDose]

These little retards are stirring a pot they will be sorry they stirred.

[PornNewz]

I sale brains two piratees cheep.

[Fat Panda]

kill the cocksuckers

[PSD CSS XHTML]

I realize it's serious, and seems to be getting worse, but I wouldn't mind tagging along on one of these missions. I'd want to hand-pick my crew though. These tards didn't even manage to board the vessel and they had rocket launchers.

[Fat Panda]

This pirate shit continues to baffle me. These huge cargo ships totally have the tactical advantage (other than being slow). Arm the fucking deckhands with automatic weapons, RPG's and shoulder fired missiles. When some stupid fucking pirates try to take the ship open up on their fucking lame asses from a elevated position behind some cover.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by SAC

This pirate shit continues to baffle me. These huge cargo ships totally have the tactical advantage (other than being slow). Arm the fucking deckhands with automatic weapons, RPG's and shoulder fired missiles. When some stupid fucking pirates try to take the ship open up on their fucking lame asses from a elevated position behind some cover.

I find it kind of odd that "officials" and "analysts" are so concerned about "escalating the situation" by adding firearms. Escalating the situation? To what?! I realize that they are afraid the 300 held hostages could be killed... but good lord, how long can this go on without any real repercussions? Something needs to be done aside from everyone standing around saying "oh that sure is unfortunate."

[JenniDahling]

I don't think they got the memo...

[the.drunk]

not a good thing

[baddog]

Originally Posted by SAC

This pirate shit continues to baffle me. These huge cargo ships totally have the tactical advantage (other than being slow). Arm the fucking deckhands with automatic weapons, RPG's and shoulder fired missiles. When some stupid fucking pirates try to take the ship open up on their fucking lame asses from a elevated position behind some cover.

Probably violates a union contract or two.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Is the sea another "no gun zone" so everyone on the sea is safe?

[LiveDose]

I see Blackwater opening up a maritime security division in the near future...

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by Sly

I find it kind of odd that "officials" and "analysts" are so concerned about "escalating the situation" by adding firearms. Escalating the situation? To what?! I realize that they are afraid the 300 held hostages could be killed... but good lord, how long can this go on without any real repercussions? Something needs to be done aside from everyone standing around saying "oh that sure is unfortunate."

There are two main reasons why arming the ship's crew isn't a particularly viable solution.

First, there's the issue that under sea laws, ships are generally given the "right of innocent passage" in territorial waters. However, with armed crews, this becomes problematic.

Second, right now, in most cases by far the hostages aren't killed. If they were armed, however, it would make it likely that crew members of hijacked ships would be killed in gun battles, and it would also increase chances of hostages being killed as a precaution by pirates.

The only reasonable solution to this problem is to focus on treating the root causes. Mainly, Somalia needs a functioning government.

Sadly, Somalia's best bet for a functioning government was the (heavily islamist) ICU. And both Ethiopia and the USA have played a large part in preventing them from creating a somewhat functional government. Ethiopia by means of an actual invasion, and the USA by means of the clandestine support of secular warlords.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by Libertine

The only reasonable solution to this problem is to focus on treating the root causes. Mainly, Somalia needs a functioning government.

That sounds like something that would be better left to the Somalis. The real root cause is the pirates and their criminal ambitions. The solutions would be to hunt them down, destroy their vessels, destroy the ports where they harbor and the safe houses where they hide, and kill as many of them as possible. That is how you address the "root causes."

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

That sounds like something that would be better left to the Somalis. The real root cause is the pirates and their criminal ambitions. The solutions would be to hunt them down, destroy their vessels, destroy the ports where they harbor and the safe houses where they hide, and kill as many of them as possible. That is how you address the "root causes."

Yes, because clearly, there is a single, static, small group of people, "the pirates", who engage in piracy solely because they have "criminal ambitions".

The current situation has nothing at all to do with the fact that in Somalia, criminals have a pool of several millions of impoverished and desperate young men who have absolutely nothing to lose to recruit from.

And clearly, it's a brilliant idea for the international community to police Somalia and its entire coastline. After all, the few hundred thousand soldiers needed for that job are easily found, and such an operation would cost very little money.

Of course, tracking down the pirates is a rather simple job, when you think about it. Because they most definitely would never pretend to be simple fishermen. And obviously, they use large, conspicuous ports, dedicated solely to piracy. The thought of blending in with the local population and using small marinas mainly used for fishing would never occur to them.

You are absolutely right. Your plan is perfect!

[theking]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Yes, because clearly, there is a single, static, small group of people, "the pirates", who engage in piracy solely because they have "criminal ambitions".

The current situation has nothing at all to do with the fact that in Somalia, criminals have a pool of several millions of impoverished and desperate young men who have absolutely nothing to lose to recruit from.

And clearly, it's a brilliant idea for the international community to police Somalia and its entire coastline. After all, the few hundred thousand soldiers needed for that job are easily found, and such an operation would cost very little money.

Of course, tracking down the pirates is a rather simple job, when you think about it. Because they most definitely would never pretend to be simple fishermen. And obviously, they use large, conspicuous ports, dedicated solely to piracy. The thought of blending in with the local population and using small marinas mainly used for fishing would never occur to them.

You are absolutely right. Your plan is perfect!

According to at least one intelligence agent that was interviewed on TV...we know who the various pirate groups are...where they are housed...what boats they use and what harbors they use...and as he stated a simultaneous...coordinated air attack could probably eliminate 90% of their current capabilities. Ultimately you are correct in stating that Somalia needs a stable government but no one is going to attemp nation building unless it is the US and to this I give a thumbs down.

[JD]

this is going to end very very badly for the pirates...

[bronco67]

they are just begging for the steel rain.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Sadly, Somalia's best bet for a functioning government was the (heavily islamist) ICU. And both Ethiopia and the USA have played a large part in preventing them from creating a somewhat functional government. Ethiopia by means of an actual invasion, and the USA by means of the clandestine support of secular warlords.

You hit the nail right on the head .....

The USA, with the neocons running it till lately, could not accept an islamic gov .... They asked their christians friends ( Ethiopia ) to invade for them, while they shelled the country from warships ....

As with all that these guys touched, it failed ... and now it is worst then it was ... a bit like Iraq ....

You touch it, you break it, you pay for it ....




oh, and before some idiots start saying Ethiopia is muslim :

Religion in Ethiopia
religion percent
Christian
 
66.5%
Islam
 
30.9%
Traditional Faiths
 
2.6%

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by theking

According to at least one intelligence agent that was interviewed on TV...we know who the various pirate groups are...where they are housed...what boats they use and what harbors they use...and as he stated a simultaneous...coordinated air attack could probably eliminate 90% of their current capabilities.

And everything you hear on tv is both true and fully accurate, that goes without saying.

But enough sarcasm: that's bullshit.

The attacks are carried out by the forces of local warlords, by organized gangsters, and by groups of small-time criminals. Some are financed by independent outsiders, some are not. The pirates themselves are almost as easily replaced as their weapons and boats. As long as money keeps coming in from ransoms, new replacements will be found.

Anyone who even takes a few hours researching the matter knows this. Hell, anyone who searches for "Somalia pirates" in Google Images should know it.

The boats used are very much like normal fishing boats. The weapons used are easily available in Somalia. The people used are expendable to those in control.

"Eliminate 90% of their current capabilities"?

A few impoverished fishermen, a few former or current militia members, a souped up fishing boat or two, and a bunch of weapons - voila, you have a new pirate crew.

This isn't a single, well-coordinated, centralized group of people. Unless the plan is to bomb half the Somalian population into oblivion, air strikes will not eliminate 90% or even 50% of "their" capabilities.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Libertine

And everything you hear on tv is both true and fully accurate, that goes without saying.

But enough sarcasm: that's bullshit.

The attacks are carried out by the forces of local warlords, by organized gangsters, and by groups of small-time criminals. Some are financed by independent outsiders, some are not. The pirates themselves are almost as easily replaced as their weapons and boats. As long as money keeps coming in from ransoms, new replacements will be found.

Anyone who even takes a few hours researching the matter knows this. Hell, anyone who searches for "Somalia pirates" in Google Images should know it.

The boats used are very much like normal fishing boats. The weapons used are easily available in Somalia. The people used are expendable to those in control.

"Eliminate 90% of their current capabilities"?

A few impoverished fishermen, a few former or current militia members, a souped up fishing boat or two, and a bunch of weapons - voila, you have a new pirate crew.

This isn't a single, well-coordinated, centralized group of people. Unless the plan is to bomb half the Somalian population into oblivion, air strikes will not eliminate 90% or even 50% of "their" capabilities.

Hmm...you are so much better informed than the intelligent agent is...why don't you extend a helping hand and provide our intelligence agencies with your intel sources and the wisdom of your experience in such matters?

[Rochard]

Give the crew a handful of machine guns. When a smaller ship fires at them, they can just return fire. That will be more than enough to deter these dumb fuckers.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Give the crew a handful of machine guns. When a smaller ship fires at them, they can just return fire. That will be more than enough to deter these dumb fuckers.

An armed crew/ship would no doubt be helpful as a deterrence...but it is my understanding that thus far the owners of the ships think that the possible libilities may far exceed paying ransoms so it is a cost effective thing with them. This position may change a some point.

[Due]

Originally Posted by theking

Hmm...you are so much better informed than the intelligent agent is...why don't you extend a helping hand and provide our intelligence agencies with your intel sources and the wisdom of your experience in such matters?

In case you missed it, not everything you hear on TV is true.
Furthermore US haven't been doing that great recently when attacking foreign countries.
Also I'm not sure if USA really need more direct enemies at this point or how the financial system would sustain the costs of another war.
If you look at it a country with 10 million citizens and a GDP of $600 per capita does not really have a lot to loose, there is individual people with more money than this country

[theking]

Originally Posted by Due

In case you missed it, not everything you hear on TV is true.
Furthermore US haven't been doing that great recently when attacking foreign countries.
Also I'm not sure if USA really need more direct enemies at this point or how the financial system would sustain the costs of another war.
If you look at it a country with 10 million citizens and a GDP of $600 per capita does not really have a lot to loose, there is individual people with more money than this country

I did not state that I believe what the intelligence agent said is fact or that I believe what he said is true...I simply reported what he said. I do tend to think that an intelligence agent is better informed than some member of an adult webmaster board is...thank you very much.

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by SAC

This pirate shit continues to baffle me. These huge cargo ships totally have the tactical advantage (other than being slow). Arm the fucking deckhands with automatic weapons, RPG's and shoulder fired missiles. When some stupid fucking pirates try to take the ship open up on their fucking lame asses from a elevated position behind some cover.

I think it has to do with border patrol, you can't simply enter a country armed with weapons. Imagine arming Fedex transport trucks that are crossing the border, no chance that would happen.
WG

[Due]

Originally Posted by theking

I did not state that I believe what the intelligence agent said is fact or that I believe what he said is true...I simply reported what he said. I do tend to think that an intelligence agent is better informed than some member of an adult webmaster board is...thank you very much.

You are dealing with a uneducated people in that country, people are more poor than you could imagine, thinking that you could eliminate 90% of their activity by bombing certain areas and killing some groups of people could work... for about a week..... this is what they know how to do, and they will continue to do so until someone educates them better.
Bombing someone is not education, that's more like discipline, but discipline won't help without giving an alternative to their current situation.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Due

You are dealing with a uneducated people in that country, people are more poor than you could imagine, thinking that you could eliminate 90% of their activity by bombing certain areas and killing some groups of people could work... for about a week..... this is what they know how to do, and they will continue to do so until someone educates them better.
Bombing someone is not education, that's more like discipline, but discipline won't help without giving an alternative to their current situation.

The agent did state "current capabilities" and did not state that this would resolve the problem. They will probably remain without a stable government...uneducated and poor until "hell freezes over"...so the band will play on...unless or until the ship owners decide to arm the crews/ships.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by LiveDose

I see Blackwater opening up a maritime security division in the near future...

I have been saying this for months. Each boat needs a few private soldiers on board who kill anyone who nears the ship. Blow those fucking Africans to bits. It will be a hell of a lot cheaper than the millions they spend on getting hostages released.

Fuck Somalia.

[After Shock Media]

If only arming were that easy. Ports do not just allow armed ships to come in plus other factors.

Now perhaps escorts that do not go to port, but fuck they still jacking shit with security patrolling. The area is fucking huge.

This whole situation will be just as easy to fix as gang/drug activities in major US cities - we all know how well we are at that.

[Voodoo]

We need to break out the cannon balls.

[JimmiDean]

Originally Posted by LiveDose

I see Blackwater opening up a maritime security division in the near future...

Exactly, then this will all end real fast.

[alias]

Anyone tried this khat that the pirates chew?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat

[seeandsee]

invade somalia!

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by theking

Hmm...you are so much better informed than the intelligent agent is...why don't you extend a helping hand and provide our intelligence agencies with your intel sources and the wisdom of your experience in such matters?

I am saying that what you heard on tv was bullshit. I have severe doubts that the person you saw on tv actually was an intelligence agent, and if he was, I find it baffling that he would espouse a viewpoint on television that is radically inconsistent with virtually all international reports on the matter.

Personally, I think the person you saw was most likely merely a member of some neocon thinktank, championing a wildly unrealistic and purely ideologically inspired view of the world. The kind of person that believes a "war on piracy" will solve the problem. And in case you're not getting the reference: yes, I am likening the problem of the international drug trade to the problem of piracy.

If the person you saw on tv was an actual intelligence agent, I would be inclined to weep for the state of American intelligence. The idea that the pirates could be wiped out with a few airstrikes, after all, is as ludicrous as the idea of wiping out the Taliban with airstrikes, or wiping out the cocaine trade with airstrikes.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Libertine

I am saying that what you heard on tv was bullshit. I have severe doubts that the person you saw on tv actually was an intelligence agent, and if he was, I find it baffling that he would espouse a viewpoint on television that is radically inconsistent with virtually all international reports on the matter.

Personally, I think the person you saw was most likely merely a member of some neocon thinktank, championing a wildly unrealistic and purely ideologically inspired view of the world. The kind of person that believes a "war on piracy" will solve the problem. And in case you're not getting the reference: yes, I am likening the problem of the international drug trade to the problem of piracy.

If the person you saw on tv was an actual intelligence agent, I would be inclined to weep for the state of American intelligence. The idea that the pirates could be wiped out with a few airstrikes, after all, is as ludicrous as the idea of wiping out the Taliban with airstrikes, or wiping out the cocaine trade with airstrikes.

[polish_aristocrat]

3 more pages of brain-storming and GFY'ers will solve the problem of the pirates

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by baddog

Probably violates a union contract or two.

Fuck the union. Its kill or be killed. If they get killed by these idiots what will the union do for the family.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by alias

Anyone tried this khat that the pirates chew?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat

It's not just pirates... its most of the people in that area.

What we really need is a Captain Jack Sparrow... at least then it would be funny!

[Ross]

Originally Posted by SAC

This pirate shit continues to baffle me. These huge cargo ships totally have the tactical advantage (other than being slow). Arm the fucking deckhands with automatic weapons, RPG's and shoulder fired missiles. When some stupid fucking pirates try to take the ship open up on their fucking lame asses from a elevated position behind some cover.

Could not agree more. 5 highly trained armed guards ought to be enough per vessel. Its only gonna cost about $100k per guard. I bet it saves a shit load more than what the ransom would be if it were taken over.

[Deesnuts]

stupid is as stupid does

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Of course, tracking down the pirates is a rather simple job, when you think about it. Because they most definitely would never pretend to be simple fishermen. And obviously, they use large, conspicuous ports, dedicated solely to piracy. The thought of blending in with the local population and using small marinas mainly used for fishing would never occur to them.

Don't be stupid, of course they're easy to find. Just look for the guys with the eye patches and parrots on their shoulders.

[Quagmire]

There is actually a simple solution. Send Danza down there. He'll have them all cleared out in a matter of hours.

[gmr324]

Yea, Tony Danza or Omorosa from Celebrity Apprentice!

[Intrinsic]

what happened to good ole cannons?

[D Ghost]

heh figures

[baddog]

Originally Posted by theking

Hmm...you are so much better informed than the intelligent agent is...why don't you extend a helping hand and provide our intelligence agencies with your intel sources and the wisdom of your experience in such matters?

dad . . . . ?

[Matt 26z]

For years we had a no fly zone in Iraq.

Now we need no sail zones. If any unauthorized boat is spotted in these areas, a drone takes them out no questions asked.

Then you put military forces and private security firms on protecting passageways closer to land.

[Why]

Originally Posted by LiveDose

These little retards are stirring a pot they will be sorry they stirred.

thats what im thinkin too

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Libertine

And everything you hear on tv is both true and fully accurate, that goes without saying.

But enough sarcasm: that's bullshit.

The attacks are carried out by the forces of local warlords, by organized gangsters, and by groups of small-time criminals. Some are financed by independent outsiders, some are not. The pirates themselves are almost as easily replaced as their weapons and boats. As long as money keeps coming in from ransoms, new replacements will be found.

Anyone who even takes a few hours researching the matter knows this. Hell, anyone who searches for "Somalia pirates" in Google Images should know it.

The boats used are very much like normal fishing boats. The weapons used are easily available in Somalia. The people used are expendable to those in control.

"Eliminate 90% of their current capabilities"?

A few impoverished fishermen, a few former or current militia members, a souped up fishing boat or two, and a bunch of weapons - voila, you have a new pirate crew.

This isn't a single, well-coordinated, centralized group of people. Unless the plan is to bomb half the Somalian population into oblivion, air strikes will not eliminate 90% or even 50% of "their" capabilities.

You seem to know everything. Even more than the CIA. They should put you in charge, and we could send over a stern warning on lavender stationery with little hearts on it.