Should i bail on the republican party?

[Joshua G]

My politics are in crisis. People think i'm ignorant & racist just by calling myself a republican. After the leadership of the past 8 years, after a lily white male republican convention, after Sarah Palin, this is understandable.

The reason i call myself a republican instead of a democrat is because in social studies in high school, they taught us about the foundations of the left & right, specifically in how the constitution is interpreted. Republicans are supposed to be "anti-federalists" while dems have always been "federalists". I have always agreed with the republican way, that government power should be limited so that the peoples freedom is maximized.

But obviously todays politics are much more complicated. The last 8 years we have seen the ascendancy of social conservatives, who are "federalists" in that they want the government intruding on the peoples private lives (gay sex & marriage, abortion, shiavo, 2257) while the democrats are the "anti-federalists" who want states & the people deciding for themselves how to run their lives.

& recently i have found all the right wing thinking i find on the web to be trivial, stupid, & miopic. I cannot listen to Limbaugh & hannity. They are insane. When Rush says Powell supported obama because of race (based on nothing at all except race), its embarassing. I can understand how everyone under 40 thinks republicans are morons.

But i grew up hating democrats since Reagan, & i feel the dems are only in power because 1) the republicans fucked things up that badly 2) Obama is a unique generational politician whose political skills are Tiger Woods/Michael Jordan like. I don't think the country would have liked a Hillary presidency & the repubs would be back in 2-4 years if not for Obama.

But in no way can i call myself a democrat. They are obsessed with identity politics. They are no more friends to porn than republicans. Any of you who think dems are any different than repubs on porn can go back to the COPA law passed in 1998 & count the votes. They also have no BALLS. They voted for the Iraq war before they opposed it.

So whose gonna create a center-right party that believes in balanced budgets & gay marriage? This is the idealogy that will eventually replace the republican party.

[Socks]

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../-1/FOSOPINION

The Republican Party he knew is gone

Thursday, May 7, 2009

Why I am ashamed to have been a Republican? Like my father and his father before him, I have been a lifelong republican. I have always supported the party's candidates and positions, from Barry Goldwater in 1964 to George W. Bush (twice). But something has happened.

Over the last several years the tone of the party has changed and has reached a deafening crescendo in the last few months. Loyal opposition and civility have disappeared, replaced by rhetoric that is poisonous, irrational, and unencumbered by facts.

Consider these examples. Congresswoman Virginia Foxx (R- North Carolina), speaking on the floor of the House of Representatives concerning the proposed hate crime legislation called the "Matthew Shepard" bill, suggested that Shepard was merely the victim of a robbery, and that suggestions that he was targeted because he was gay were all a part of "a hoax that continues to be used as an excuse for passing these bills." Even a cursory check of the facts shows that the crime was an anti-gay crime. By the way, Matthew's mom was in the House gallery at the time.

Or how about U.S. Rep. Paul Broun (R- Georgia), who was on C-SPAN'S "Washington Journal" discussing the swine flu outbreak. Broun was a logical choice. Not only is the congressman a physician, he sits on the House Homeland Security Committee. This is what he said: "Of course, it's sad to see a 23-month-old child die from this disease. We don't have any specifics. I tried to find out this morning specifics about this child that has died — whether it was someone who is from Mexico, possibly an illegal immigrant who has been brought into this country." He apparently didn't try very hard since TV, radio, and Internet sources had all reported the fact that the child and his family were legally visiting the U. S. at the time the child became ill. Instead, he chose to make his inflammatory anti-Mexican insinuation at the expense of a dead baby.

And then there's Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), who described the overwhelming scientific consensus that carbon dioxide is contributing to climate change as "comical" during an appearance on ABC's "This Week," also noting that cow flatulence contributes CO2 to the environment all the time. The Ohio Republican said this about carbon dioxide emissions: "The idea that carbon dioxide is a carcinogen that is harmful to our environment is almost comical. Every time we exhale, we exhale carbon dioxide. Every cow in the world, you know when they do what they do you've got more carbon dioxide." Boehner's reasoning is wrong in so many ways, that it would be funny, if his startling lack of scientific knowledge weren't so serious. For one thing, it's another Greenhouse Gas that is produced from the business-end of those Cows, he points to — methane.

I could go on and on: Michael Steele, RNC chairman, agreeing this week that President Obama is, indeed,"Barack the Magic Negro," two conservative groups already criticizing the credentials of President Obama's pick to replace Justice Souter and promising to fight confirmation (Obama hasn't named a nominee yet); Republican Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma), who said in 2005 that filibustering a presidential appointee was not only inappropriate but "very likely unconstitutional" and yet who announced he will filibuster the president's supreme court justice nominee (yes, the one the president hasn't picked yet). There are, of course, the teabaggers, who accused the president of being a socialist, a fascist, and a Marxist all at the same time. That's like saying an animal is a cat, a dog, and a parrot all at the same time. Maybe they should look up the meanings of words before they throw them around. And then there is Representative Michelle Bachmann (R-Minnesota). I can't even list the nearly unending inflammatory, inaccurate, and insensitive things she has said, and continues to say nearly every day. It seems lately that every time a member of Congress makes a ridiculously ignorant, inflammatory, or pathetically ill thought out comment, you can count on there being an "R" after his or her name. This is not the Republican Party I grew up with; the party of Dwight Eisenhower, Everett Dirksen, Gerald Ford, Barry Goldwater, and Ronald Reagan (to name just a few).

Sadly, it has become the mouthpiece of the lunatic fringe. That is a great loss to our republic. The loss of a civil public exchange among informed people holding opposing views is a great loss indeed. I am ashamed of my former party; ashamed of its obstructionism and fetish for vitriol, ashamed of its exclusionism and willful ignorance; ashamed of its abandonment of reason for reactionism. The Republican Party I knew is gone. I shall miss it.

Dr. David Maleham

[LiveDose]

Both major parties suck ass. Hang tight maybe a third party contender will actually evolve in the next 50 years. Doubt it but maybe...

[baddog]

Balanced budgets, sure; but what makes you think gay marriage is enough of an issue to be a primary issue for any party?

[After Shock Media]

You can almost be assured gay marriage and possibly abortion will end up closed issues by the time Obama leaves office. Considering he is getting at least one supreme court seat pick and more than likely more than that. Then be very assured Obama will pull from the past administrations play book and nominate young judges (40-50's) which could lock in numerous issues that have been close or splits in the past, and put an end to many of those such debates/talking points in politics.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

My politics are in crisis. People think i'm ignorant & racist just by calling myself a republican. After the leadership of the past 8 years, after a lily white male republican convention, after Sarah Palin, this is understandable.

The reason i call myself a republican instead of a democrat is because in social studies in high school, they taught us about the foundations of the left & right, specifically in how the constitution is interpreted. Republicans are supposed to be "anti-federalists" while dems have always been "federalists". I have always agreed with the republican way, that government power should be limited so that the peoples freedom is maximized.

But obviously todays politics are much more complicated. The last 8 years we have seen the ascendancy of social conservatives, who are "federalists" in that they want the government intruding on the peoples private lives (gay sex & marriage, abortion, shiavo, 2257) while the democrats are the "anti-federalists" who want states & the people deciding for themselves how to run their lives.

& recently i have found all the right wing thinking i find on the web to be trivial, stupid, & miopic. I cannot listen to Limbaugh & hannity. They are insane. When Rush says Powell supported obama because of race (based on nothing at all except race), its embarassing. I can understand how everyone under 40 thinks republicans are morons.

But i grew up hating democrats since Reagan, & i feel the dems are only in power because 1) the republicans fucked things up that badly 2) Obama is a unique generational politician whose political skills are Tiger Woods/Michael Jordan like. I don't think the country would have liked a Hillary presidency & the repubs would be back in 2-4 years if not for Obama.

But in no way can i call myself a democrat. They are obsessed with identity politics. They are no more friends to porn than republicans. Any of you who think dems are any different than repubs on porn can go back to the COPA law passed in 1998 & count the votes. They also have no BALLS. They voted for the Iraq war before they opposed it.

So whose gonna create a center-right party that believes in balanced budgets & gay marriage? This is the idealogy that will eventually replace the republican party.

It's republicans that have no balls for any enemy capable of fighting back. They only like quick dirty realpolitik wars. When it comes to the real thing they put their tail between their legs and run... you can see this in the fact that very few, if any, republican leaders ever served in the military, although they're totally gung ho about getting everyone else's kids killed. They wanted to sit out WWII as well and it was 'bleeding heart liberals' that forced them into it, kicking and screaming. Democrats didn't want the Iraq war because it was a stupid war, and there was no reason to fight it. I think that's pretty obvious by now.

Also republicans ARE our enemies when it comes to porn, much worse than democrats. If there was no pressure from the right, you would never hear the word 'porn' coming from a democrats lips. It's the right-wingers who want to take books off the library shelves, label everything 'indecent' and shut us down.

Federalism is a good thing as long as you have a representative govt., it always has been. The whole idea that conservatives are anti-govt. came about because they used 'states rights' as a euphanism for being pro-slavery. There are to this day no republican leaders who give a flying fuck about states rights, except that it's the only way that they can get out of enacting anti-discrimination statutes.

Maybe, since this is SUCH a difficult decision for you, you can take a moment and ask yourself: When - in all of recorded history - have the Conservatives EVER been proven, over the passage of time, to have been correct about ANY major issue? Just once, show me where they were on the right side of an issue.

It's a fucking mystery to me how people can agonize over such a simple debate as right or left. If our educational system was worth a flying fuck, and half our politicians weren't anti-intellectual, there would be no debate at all. There's a reason why a HUGE percentage of college graduates are democrats or lean left. It's what happens to you when you actually know government and you've learned enough to not be so easily demagogued by any redneck asshole with a megaphone.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by baddog

Balanced budgets, sure; but what makes you think gay marriage is enough of an issue to be a primary issue for any party?

its not. it was just an example of a wedge issue opposed by conservative republicans but could be supported by moderate republicans that think govt should not intrude on such issues.

I wish at least 1 of the parties would stand for a balanced budget. The repubs stood for it until 911 & then they just did whatever george bush wanted. Obama doesnt even try, giving lip service to all these critical investments & bailouts we need. You would think when you spend 3 trillion dollars you could think of a few things to cut. But nobody in either party has the balls to stand up to the big ticket entitlement programs.

[crockett]

The current downfall of the Republican party started with Regan not just the last 8 years, but it sounds more like you would be better off with the libertarian party TBH. The only problem with them, is they tend to attract the wackos.

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

The reason i call myself a republican instead of a democrat is because in social studies in high school, they taught us about the foundations of the left & right, specifically in how the constitution is interpreted. Republicans are supposed to be "anti-federalists" while dems have always been "federalists". I have always agreed with the republican way, that government power should be limited so that the peoples freedom is maximized.

Unfortunately, it appears you have based your political choices up to this moment on some very simplistic and fundamentally flawed information.

As for your current political position: congratulations, you're a moderate libertarian. That is to say, you're fucked. Neither the republicans nor the democrats even remotely represent your views.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by dig420

It's republicans that have no balls for any enemy capable of fighting back. They only like quick dirty realpolitik wars. When it comes to the real thing they put their tail between their legs and run... you can see this in the fact that very few, if any, republican leaders ever served in the military, although they're totally gung ho about getting everyone else's kids killed. They wanted to sit out WWII as well and it was 'bleeding heart liberals' that forced them into it, kicking and screaming. Democrats didn't want the Iraq war because it was a stupid war, and there was no reason to fight it. I think that's pretty obvious by now.

Also republicans ARE our enemies when it comes to porn, much worse than democrats. If there was no pressure from the right, you would never hear the word 'porn' coming from a democrats lips. It's the right-wingers who want to take books off the library shelves, label everything 'indecent' and shut us down.

Federalism is a good thing as long as you have a representative govt., it always has been. The whole idea that conservatives are anti-govt. came about because they used 'states rights' as a euphanism for being pro-slavery. There are to this day no republican leaders who give a flying fuck about states rights, except that it's the only way that they can get out of enacting anti-discrimination statutes.

Maybe, since this is SUCH a difficult decision for you, you can take a moment and ask yourself: When - in all of recorded history - have the Conservatives EVER been proven, over the passage of time, to have been correct about ANY major issue? Just once, show me where they were on the right side of an issue.

It's a fucking mystery to me how people can agonize over such a simple debate as right or left. If our educational system was worth a flying fuck, and half our politicians weren't anti-intellectual, there would be no debate at all. There's a reason why a HUGE percentage of college graduates are democrats or lean left. It's what happens to you when you actually know government and you've learned enough to not be so easily demagogued by any redneck asshole with a megaphone.

You make some good points. I dont think there are a lot more dems who served over republicans. The last republican presidential candidate was a war vet, & in general the military is very right wing.

I think the conservatives are right to oppose affirmative action, & to support the death penalty. Why do you think law school candidates should get a preference just because they are black & osama bin ladin does not deserve death for what he did?

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Unfortunately, it appears you have based your political choices up to this moment on some very simplistic and fundamentally flawed information.

As for your current political position: congratulations, you're a moderate libertarian. That is to say, you're fucked. Neither the republicans nor the democrats even remotely represent your views.

if i was duped, it was that i grossly underestimated the power of the religious right on my party.

However the financial crisis has changed my thinking as well. I used to think bank deregulation was a good move. In retrospect it was a appauling disaster, & demonstrated that libertarianism is a folly as well. If you let corporations do anything they want, you get AIG & GM in return.

[Redrob]

As a rather devout libertarian, I identify with Ron Paul on most social and personal issues.

The Republican party of Goldwater has become the party of pinheads, gun-freaks, religious extremist, southern racist and the tool of the very rich.

I kinda miss the good old days when they had moderates.....

[hankphone]

hahahahahha, republicans....

[DaddyHalbucks]

Life in a blue state convinced me that The Dems have the wrong approach to government.

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by LiveDose

Both major parties suck ass.

That about sums it up!

[tony286]

if you think dems are the same as reps.you are sorely mistaken. Copa was to protect children.Everytime porners went to jail it was during republican admins, nixon, reagan the meese commission.the new fucked up 2257 ,max in jail and if 911 didnt happen it would of been worse.porn was job one for ashcroft before 911. porn grew during the clinton years than ever before because they felt going after adults for adult porn was a waste of resources. working in porn production and being republican is like being a jewish nazi.

[collegeboobies]

jump ship

[Sausage]

Originally Posted by tony404

if you think dems are the same as reps.you are sorely mistaken. Copa was to protect children.Everytime porners went to jail it was during republican admins, nixon, reagan the meese commission.the new fucked up 2257 ,max in jail and if 911 didnt happen it would of been worse.porn was job one for ashcroft before 911. porn grew during the clinton years than ever before because they felt going after adults for adult porn was a waste of resources. working in porn production and being republican is like being a jewish nazi.

Porn grew more during the Clinton years because they were 1993-2001ish. Had nothing to do with whichever bunch of crooks was in power.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Dems are wrong about most government issues. Repubs are wrong about most social issues.

For me, government is the key issue, so I side with the Repubs.

[hankphone]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Dems are wrong about most government issues. Repubs are wrong about most social issues.

For me, government is the key issue, so I side with the Repubs.

we need a compromising party, everybody knows that deep down. It'll never happen though, so worst case, side with the dems. unless ur making big time money, then side with the reps... haha

[tony286]

Originally Posted by hankphone

we need a compromising party, everybody knows that deep down. It'll never happen though, so worst case, side with the dems. unless ur making big time money, then side with the reps... haha

Bill Gates is a democrat.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by tony404

Bill Gates is a democrat.

A democrat that spends more money helping people in other countries instead of those in his own.

Why is that?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by baddog

A democrat that spends more money helping people in other countries instead of those in his own.

Why is that?

write him a letter and ask?

[Jimbo66]

Originally Posted by Socks

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../-1/FOSOPINION

The Republican Party he knew is gone

Thursday, May 7, 2009

Why I am ashamed to have been a Republican? Like my father and his father before him, I have been a lifelong republican. I have always supported the party's candidates and positions, from Barry Goldwater in 1964 to George W. Bush (twice). But something has happened.

Over the last several years the tone of the party has changed and has reached a deafening crescendo in the last few months. Loyal opposition and civility have disappeared, replaced by rhetoric that is poisonous, irrational, and unencumbered by facts.

Consider these examples. Congresswoman Virginia Foxx (R- North Carolina), speaking on the floor of the House of Representatives concerning the proposed hate crime legislation called the "Matthew Shepard" bill, suggested that Shepard was merely the victim of a robbery, and that suggestions that he was targeted because he was gay were all a part of "a hoax that continues to be used as an excuse for passing these bills." Even a cursory check of the facts shows that the crime was an anti-gay crime. By the way, Matthew's mom was in the House gallery at the time.

Or how about U.S. Rep. Paul Broun (R- Georgia), who was on C-SPAN'S "Washington Journal" discussing the swine flu outbreak. Broun was a logical choice. Not only is the congressman a physician, he sits on the House Homeland Security Committee. This is what he said: "Of course, it's sad to see a 23-month-old child die from this disease. We don't have any specifics. I tried to find out this morning specifics about this child that has died ? whether it was someone who is from Mexico, possibly an illegal immigrant who has been brought into this country." He apparently didn't try very hard since TV, radio, and Internet sources had all reported the fact that the child and his family were legally visiting the U. S. at the time the child became ill. Instead, he chose to make his inflammatory anti-Mexican insinuation at the expense of a dead baby.

And then there's Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), who described the overwhelming scientific consensus that carbon dioxide is contributing to climate change as "comical" during an appearance on ABC's "This Week," also noting that cow flatulence contributes CO2 to the environment all the time. The Ohio Republican said this about carbon dioxide emissions: "The idea that carbon dioxide is a carcinogen that is harmful to our environment is almost comical. Every time we exhale, we exhale carbon dioxide. Every cow in the world, you know when they do what they do you've got more carbon dioxide." Boehner's reasoning is wrong in so many ways, that it would be funny, if his startling lack of scientific knowledge weren't so serious. For one thing, it's another Greenhouse Gas that is produced from the business-end of those Cows, he points to ? methane.

I could go on and on: Michael Steele, RNC chairman, agreeing this week that President Obama is, indeed,"Barack the Magic Negro," two conservative groups already criticizing the credentials of President Obama's pick to replace Justice Souter and promising to fight confirmation (Obama hasn't named a nominee yet); Republican Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma), who said in 2005 that filibustering a presidential appointee was not only inappropriate but "very likely unconstitutional" and yet who announced he will filibuster the president's supreme court justice nominee (yes, the one the president hasn't picked yet). There are, of course, the teabaggers, who accused the president of being a socialist, a fascist, and a Marxist all at the same time. That's like saying an animal is a cat, a dog, and a parrot all at the same time. Maybe they should look up the meanings of words before they throw them around. And then there is Representative Michelle Bachmann (R-Minnesota). I can't even list the nearly unending inflammatory, inaccurate, and insensitive things she has said, and continues to say nearly every day. It seems lately that every time a member of Congress makes a ridiculously ignorant, inflammatory, or pathetically ill thought out comment, you can count on there being an "R" after his or her name. This is not the Republican Party I grew up with; the party of Dwight Eisenhower, Everett Dirksen, Gerald Ford, Barry Goldwater, and Ronald Reagan (to name just a few).

Sadly, it has become the mouthpiece of the lunatic fringe. That is a great loss to our republic. The loss of a civil public exchange among informed people holding opposing views is a great loss indeed. I am ashamed of my former party; ashamed of its obstructionism and fetish for vitriol, ashamed of its exclusionism and willful ignorance; ashamed of its abandonment of reason for reactionism. The Republican Party I knew is gone. I shall miss it.

Dr. David Maleham

This pretty much says it all.

[Iron Fist]

Magic Eight Ball says....

[nation-x]

I think that the Libertarians will be the winners in the aftermath of this GOP mess... they don't carry the social issue baggage that the GOP does and they have been growing in influence for years... I think that we will see them emerge as the second party while the GOP fades away due to their unwillingness to give up their antiquated positions on social issues as well as their subjugation to corporate interests (which is also a problem that the dems have as far as wall street is concerned). All they really need is a real viable candidate... not a Bob Barr or Ross Perot type.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by tony404

if you think dems are the same as reps.you are sorely mistaken. Copa was to protect children.Everytime porners went to jail it was during republican admins, nixon, reagan the meese commission.the new fucked up 2257 ,max in jail and if 911 didnt happen it would of been worse.porn was job one for ashcroft before 911. porn grew during the clinton years than ever before because they felt going after adults for adult porn was a waste of resources. working in porn production and being republican is like being a jewish nazi.

yeah...repubs have been activist in prosecuting obscenity & indecency while dems tend to lay off. you are correct. what i am saying is, when it comes to legislation, votes, or expecting either party to defend our free speech, i wouldn't count on dems any more than the repubs. All pols suck on the family values dick when campaigning.

Jewish nazi.

[Joshua G]

PS it was a liberal democrat supreme court that finalized the obscenity law, the same supreme court that legalized abortion, in the same year.

[Joshua G]

i think the best conclusion is not to talk politics at GFY. Theres no upside, & i am a porn producer superstar wannabe. politics only fucks that up.

[RP Fade]

today's republican party..yes..I did and would. Though I didnt always agree with them, I liked the old school republican party, a party of ideas and rational, not a party of fear and ideology. I mean when Rush Limbaugh is your 'leader' and Joe the Plumber is your spokesperson (who bailed btw), I think it's time to rethink things.

[candyflip]

Why democrat or republican? Sounds like you'd fit right in with us Libertarians.

http://lp.org

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by baddog

A democrat that spends more money helping people in other countries instead of those in his own.

Why is that?

Their money came from all over the world, so they are using it to make the world a better place. Seems like simple logic to me.

[cykoe6]

Unfortunately neither party protects individual rights. This is hardly a new development in either party. Reagan's drug wars were a huge catalyst for a massive expansion of federal police state powers and those powers have continued to expand under Clinton and both Bushs. However given the the current order there is no doubt the Republicans are the lesser of two evils. As much as I hate fundamentalist Christians and their ridiculous moralizing and meddling I hate big government socialists like Obama even worse.

I would of course prefer that the government left me alone but if I had to choose between a few Christian busybodies ranting about gay marriage or a bunch of Marxists looking to confiscate my money while denying me the right to defend myself or speak freely then I think the choice is pretty simple.

[tony286]

The problem with the Libertarians is they pick awful candidates. Like they had Bob Barr a good one and they match him up with a sports handicapper named Wayne Root. s it like you want to lose? People also think with the Libertarians you will have all these freedoms no it will just go back to the states and if you work in porn online thats a scary thing. I have been blasting the dems on the daily koz Im very disappointed in them but that wont make me a republican the party has gone too far to the wacko side. Where Dick Cheney says Rush is a better republican than Colin powel the man spent his life in the service of his country. Rush evaded a draft. Here in georgia if John oxendine runs for governor he is a rep and I will probably vote for him if he hasnt fallen off the dark side.

[Splum]

http://www.lp.org/ FTW

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I think that the Libertarians will be the winners in the aftermath of this GOP mess... they don't carry the social issue baggage that the GOP does and they have been growing in influence for years... I think that we will see them emerge as the second party while the GOP fades away due to their unwillingness to give up their antiquated positions on social issues as well as their subjugation to corporate interests (which is also a problem that the dems have as far as wall street is concerned). All they really need is a real viable candidate... not a Bob Barr or Ross Perot type.

I think Libertarians are great, but in a 2 party system, they are the odd man out.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Unfortunately neither party protects individual rights. This is hardly a new development in either party. Reagan's drug wars were a huge catalyst for a massive expansion of federal police state powers and those powers have continued to expand under Clinton and both Bushs. However given the the current order there is no doubt the Republicans are the lesser of two evils. As much as I hate fundamentalist Christians and their ridiculous moralizing and meddling I hate big government socialists like Obama even worse.

I would of course prefer that the government left me alone but if I had to choose between a few Christian busybodies ranting about gay marriage or a bunch of Marxists looking to confiscate my money while denying me the right to defend myself or speak freely then I think the choice is pretty simple.

Some good reasoning there.

[BFT3K]

Q. Should I bail on the Republican Party?

A. Yes.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Unfortunately neither party protects individual rights. This is hardly a new development in either party. Reagan's drug wars were a huge catalyst for a massive expansion of federal police state powers and those powers have continued to expand under Clinton and both Bushs. However given the the current order there is no doubt the Republicans are the lesser of two evils. As much as I hate fundamentalist Christians and their ridiculous moralizing and meddling I hate big government socialists like Obama even worse.

I would of course prefer that the government left me alone but if I had to choose between a few Christian busybodies ranting about gay marriage or a bunch of Marxists looking to confiscate my money while denying me the right to defend myself or speak freely then I think the choice is pretty simple.

I think that your assertion that Obama is a "big government socialist" is not accurate and that also goes for saying he is a marxist... basically those views fall into the wackadoo range that the OP is talking about.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I think that your assertion that Obama is a "big government socialist" is not accurate and that also goes for saying he is a marxist... basically those views fall into the wackadoo range that the OP is talking about.

True dat. Obama is not anywhere near a socialist. He is not touching gun control, & the only companies the govt are controlling are the ones that begged him to save their asses. He has not nationalized a single industry. & his tax increases are mostly on the rich (except for energy policy)

this is exactly my point. Right wing thinking abuses words like socialist, marxist, calling abortion murders etc. I cant be associated with this crap.

I guess my mind is made up. Libertarian? Ron Paul? Not sure where to go. I just know where i am leaving.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

True dat. Obama is not anywhere near a socialist. He is not touching gun control, & the only companies the govt are controlling are the ones that begged him to save their asses. He has not nationalized a single industry. & his tax increases are mostly on the rich (except for energy policy)

this is exactly my point. Right wing thinking abuses words like socialist, marxist, calling abortion murders etc. I cant be associated with this crap.

I guess my mind is made up. Libertarian? Ron Paul? Not sure where to go. I just know where i am leaving.

Since you have admitted that the extent of your political knowledge is what you were taught in high school social studies class then perhaps it is not wise to cast aspersions on someone who has forgotten more about socialism and Marxism than you will ever know. Regardless since you are clearly barely educated and not able to do even a cursory study of any the subjects on which you like to pontificate then I think you will fit in nicely with the Democrats where shallow thinking and idiocy like yours is like their oxygen on which they depend.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I think that your assertion that Obama is a "big government socialist" is not accurate and that also goes for saying he is a marxist....

I think it is safe to say we disagree on this but the labels are not really the issue. It is his policies and actions that I oppose, regardless of what you want to call them.

[DaddyHalbucks]

First, they called it communism, but that got a bad name. Then, they called it liberalism, but that got a bad name. Then, they called it socialism, but that got a bad name. Then, they called it progressivism, but that got a bad name. Then, they just called it change, to further obfuscate.

By any name it sucks.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Since you have admitted that the extent of your political knowledge is what you were taught in high school social studies class then perhaps it is not wise to cast aspersions on someone who has forgotten more about socialism and Marxism than you will ever know. Regardless since you are clearly barely educated and not able to do even a cursory study of any the subjects on which you like to pontificate then I think you will fit in nicely with the Democrats where shallow thinking and idiocy like yours is like their oxygen on which they depend.

thanks for making my point. the right can only engage in insults at this time. You didnt retort what i stated, you only called me stupid. LOL.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

So whose gonna create a center-right party that believes in balanced budgets & gay marriage? This is the idealogy that will eventually replace the republican party.

Already exists. http://lp.org

[_Richard_]

never understood voting within party lines.. vote for the best person for the job..

[Tom_PM]

If I like a song, I dont stop to think who the band is, what they claim to stand for, who've been members of the band before in history etc etc... Yet thats how some people seem to think about politics. They scan for the scarlett letter on the chest before anything else. R, or D? Or maybe an I? Who cares.

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

First, they called it communism, but that got a bad name. Then, they called it liberalism, but that got a bad name. Then, they called it socialism, but that got a bad name. Then, they called it progressivism, but that got a bad name. Then, they just called it change, to further obfuscate.

By any name it sucks.

That has to be the dumbest thing I've read all day, and I've spent the day working on a mainstream teen chat site

[Joshua G]

its really sad that the left & right can no longer debate. there is a lot that is wrong with the left. its opposition to the death penalty, frivolous assult weapons bans that solve nothing, & a tax & spend mentality with no concern for the debt. Sadly the right is in far worse condition. Supporting torture, deregulation, tax cuts while waging 2 wars, its disgraceful. Then pinheads come into this thread & call me uneducated. Seriously, its sad.

[BFT3K]

The best selling point AGAINST the GOP is made by their own members. I am loving the fact that their spokespeople are asswipes like Rush, Cheney, Newt, Palin, etc., as most sensible people in this country despise every one of them. Good luck in 2012 fuck faces!