The reason why this biz is hurting is not Tubes, economy or credit card banging, it's

[MaDalton]

Facebook.

or MySpace

or similar sites.

People nowadays spend hours everyday on those stupid sites, send each other naughty messages or nude pics. And it's much more exciting than the 10 millionth anal fucking website. And this is the time they formerly spend searching for porn. And it's free.

Not saying the other things do not harm, but in my opinion the biggest reason is that regular porn got boring and the personal interaction plus some crappy private pics are way more exciting than porn girls in Hi Def. And considering my business i really hate to realize that.

[DWB]

I can't totally blame them, but I'm sure it doesn't help.

There are just sooooo many different ways now to get free naked pics or even webcam footage of girls these days. That on top of tubes and torrents, why would anyone pay for porn every again?

[nation-x]

siggus spotten

[Nicky]

I think tubes and torrents along with the economy is worse actually. Social networking sites such as myspace and the like have been around for quite a while now and somehow I have a feeling It's mostly used for the purpose you say by younger people that probably wouldn't pay for porn anyway. But ofcourse they don't help either. That's just my take though.

[seeandsee]

not totally blame, but big part too

[pornguy]

Not only that, But I think that the MAJORITY of Porn surfers are not the people that go looking for sites that WANT TO only See Shalya Stylez or what ever. they want to see more variety. That's one of the reasons that Facebook is good for them as these are REAL GIRLS and they actually have a chance to score with them. Or so they think.

[woj]

not sure about that, they probably do have something to with it, but seriously doubt that is the major cause...

[Basic_man]

I don't think the average male, 30-45 y/o, who is usually spending money on porn, have a Facebook account and trade naked pics with young girls (ie 18+ y/o) to jerk off...

But I agree that a % (unknown) from the porn watcher is now browsing more facebooking thingy than porn before..

[MichaelP]

I agree with most. People have X Hours/Week/Month whatever, to spend on surfing the internet for personal reasons, mo matter how many hours, back in the day, beside Adult stuff, Sport or Music, there was no so many things/topics... Now with Social networking sites, Facebook, YouTube, people have way more choices on where they will surf, but no more "Free time" to spend on the web..

Plus as someone said, with the actual economy, Free Porn all over the place, yes I think all these factrs are hurting...

[Iron Fist]

There is no money in porn.

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

Facebook.

or MySpace

or similar sites.

People nowadays spend hours everyday on those stupid sites, send each other naughty messages or nude pics. And it's much more exciting than the 10 millionth anal fucking website. And this is the time they formerly spend searching for porn. And it's free.

Not saying the other things do not harm, but in my opinion the biggest reason is that regular porn got boring and the personal interaction plus some crappy private pics are way more exciting than porn girls in Hi Def. And considering my business i really hate to realize that.

lots of truth to what you said and I wouldnt say any one thing is to blame.

Look regular TV is hurting and what are they to blame? Well some of the following

Online porn
Myspace, facebook etc
-->The TV content online with no commercials and surfer watches the parts he wants <--
Etc.

There is only so many hours a day a person has to spend online, but lets remember before myspace and facebook etc there was AOL and yahoo chat and match and AFF and friendster and a zillion other things.

The biggest problem is free porn.

Back in the day if you searched anything in google related to porn you ended up at paysites or at a gallery leading to a paysite, now you end up at free tubes showing complete videos and in most cases outright stolen shit.

The tubes will continue to the destroy this industry just like it is doing to mainstream, we will make up and make laws right about when we figure out between music movies and software piracy it destroyed 300,000+ jobs.

But make no mistake about it the day is near for tough serious laws.

[SBJ]

there is no money in porn! Well except for in the links in my sig


I don't think myspace is hurting sales that much.. maybe it's hurting non nude sites but myspace doesn't allow nudity and I really don't think like others said that 30 year old men are trading pics with 18 year old girls on myspace..

now hooking up with 18 year old girls off myspace? hell yeah i'm sure escort biz got hurt when myspace came out cause finding sluts on myspace that will fuck for fun is so simple haha.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Nicky

I think tubes and torrents along with the economy is worse actually. Social networking sites such as myspace and the like have been around for quite a while now and somehow I have a feeling It's mostly used for the purpose you say by younger people that probably wouldn't pay for porn anyway. But ofcourse they don't help either. That's just my take though.

I agree - it's the tubes, torrents, and the economy, much more than social networks.

TOO MUCH GOD DAMNED FREE FUCKING PORN!

[stickyfingerz]

It might have some effect, but comeone back early on we had aol chat rooms, and yahoo chatrooms, and icu2 etc. Those were loaded up with all the pervs back then. lol

[James124]

we're all being timeshifted

[LoveSandra]

Quality it sells allways soon or later.

[MaDalton]

i can only say that i have not been hanging around in chat rooms back then but nowadays spend time on sites like MySpace. and i have closed my Facebook profile cause it was annoying me and stole my time. and i am sure i am not the only one

[Peter Romero]

I get alot of traffic from Facebook and Myspace. I'll have to respectfully disagree.

[MALLcom]

good point!!!

[Scott McD]

I've said before 'social networking' sites ruined the internet.

And i stick by it...

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

Facebook.

or MySpace

or similar sites.

People nowadays spend hours everyday on those stupid sites, send each other naughty messages or nude pics. And it's much more exciting than the 10 millionth anal fucking website. And this is the time they formerly spend searching for porn. And it's free.

Not saying the other things do not harm, but in my opinion the biggest reason is that regular porn got boring and the personal interaction plus some crappy private pics are way more exciting than porn girls in Hi Def. And considering my business i really hate to realize that.

I was saying this for awhile, but got shouted down and called an idiot and a bunch of other not so nice things by the peanut gallery around here.

Shap said he saw TGP's declining around the time myspace started getting popular, and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.

Now there are alot of idiots on here who are going to say "people don't look at porn for fun, they look at porn to jerk off"....but whatever...alot of porn was entertainment.
Why was bangbus so popular?
Were the girls hotter than average?
No, actually the reverse in most cases.
Was their great lighting/sound/production quality?
No, the shit was shot in the back of a van.

It was just fun to watch. It seemed real. It was funny.

10 years ago, all that there was on the net was news, chat rooms, and porn. So of course everyone online looked at alot of porn.

Now there's a shitload of other things to do, and those things have all cut into our viewership/potential customer pool.

[Snake Doctor]

Although, I do need to add, right now IMO the economy is the #1 thing.

People just aren't spending money, on anything, at all. We're way down the totem poll on their list of things they "need".

When the economy picks up, so will sales.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Although, I do need to add, right now IMO the economy is the #1 thing.

People just aren't spending money, on anything, at all. We're way down the totem poll on their list of things they "need".

When the economy picks up, so will sales.

i'm sure - but i doubt we will ever get back to where we have been 2 or 3 years ago

[SZNY]

Personally I think it's a combination of the economic recession and free porn. Also don't forget that in the past the online adult industry brought new innovating things that were heavily adapted by the online mainstream industry.

Now a days there is almost no innovation introduced by online 18+ companies but simply by companies active in mainstream.

In my opinion most of the adult sites are offering all the same and stick to the same business model what made them in the past successful which is not a guarantee to be successful in the future.

Everybody is doing the same, spitting out tube sites to catch those free wankers who probably not gonna buy a membership while everything is for free.

I think innovation on different media, offering high quality content and diversity will be the key to conquer marketshare and make the consumers return

[kane]

There is a lot of truth in this thread.

For me the bottom line, like others have already said, is that people have limited time, but now they have more options to achieve their goals.

Before if I came home from work and decided I wanted to rub one out before taking a shower and getting some dinner I had limited options. I could hit a paysite or maybe a link site or TGP. Now there are tube sites galore so if I am into just generic hardcore porn there is no reason for me to pay and finding them is easy.

Before if I wanted to have some dirty chat or maybe meet a girl to hook up with there were only a few options for that. Now there are many different choices. There are a million dating sites, social networking sites, chat rooms and a dozen different IM clients.

There is just more and more stuff all competing for the same time and money so it makes it harder. I still think a lot of this stuff is doomed to failure. Sure, there are some tube sites that are making some good money, but many of them are up for sale so you wonder how much they are really making. You would assume as their popularity grows so would the number of freeloaders. When you run a TGP or even put up a TGP gallery a freeloader doesn't cost you too much. With a tube site they can now watch hour and hours of video without having to spend a dime so the overall cost of carrying a freeloader has risen. Eventually, I feel, the dating and cam ads on tube sites will begin to stagnate and they will find themselves in a situation where revenue drops while usage increases and they will be forced to see them posting more and more shorter clips or they will give away less and start charging. Some of them are already charging to download the movies or to get access to high def videos. I think as the tube sites start to change their model things might start to return somewhat to normal.

Then again this is an industry where just about every "innovation" seems to be geared towards finding new and interesting ways to give away more free porn so I guess if the tubes start to fail we will see fully free paysites or something like that.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Although, I do need to add, right now IMO the economy is the #1 thing.

People just aren't spending money, on anything, at all. We're way down the totem poll on their list of things they "need".

When the economy picks up, so will sales.

I agree that the economy is playing a bigger roll right now than normal. Before people might not hesitate to spend money, but now they are more wary of their budget so they look and look and see if they can find something decent without paying before they spend the money. Buying a membership give them convenience, but they are willing to sacrifice that convenience right now to save money. As people get more and more disposable income I think we will see them become more willing to dispose of it.

[Miguel T]

Social Networks... I have to agree.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by SZNY

Personally I think it's a combination of the economic recession and free porn. Also don't forget that in the past the online adult industry brought new innovating things that were heavily adapted by the online mainstream industry.

Now a days there is almost no innovation introduced by online 18+ companies but simply by companies active in mainstream.

In my opinion most of the adult sites are offering all the same and stick to the same business model what made them in the past successful which is not a guarantee to be successful in the future.

Everybody is doing the same, spitting out tube sites to catch those free wankers who probably not gonna buy a membership while everything is for free.

I think innovation on different media, offering high quality content and diversity will be the key to conquer marketshare and make the consumers return

that's a very good point btw - Porn always used to be the leader in online innovations - those times are over. and slowly mainstream is also figuring out how to make money - and the potential is gigantic

[Barefootsies]

Agreed.

1. Limited online time.
2. Limited budget.
3. Higher priorities.
4. More choice in free time.
5. More free offerings.
6. Porn glut, adult cannibalizing it's self.

[Juilan]

Quality, solid branding and niche will always survive imho

[AaliyahLove]

Originally Posted by Peter Romero

I get alot of traffic from Facebook and Myspace. I'll have to respectfully disagree.

ditto ;) Ive had paying customers on my webcam and my site say "I've never heard of you until Twitter/myspace" and now they're spending $ on me
I think content thieves/illegal tubes are def a bigger issue, you can't watch a girl get gangbanged on myspace or facebook, or find your fav cuckholding vids there, etc..

[mynameisjim]

People are consuming more porn than ever before, they just aren't paying for it.

Porn tubes are in the Alexa top 100, and occasionally break the top 50.

You simply can't argue that people are not watching porn in higher numbers than ever before.

[webmasterchecks]

the funny thing is the social networking sites are probably having trouble making money off the users as well

[baddog]

Sounds like many have not figured how to harness the power of social networks.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by baddog

Sounds like many have not figured how to harness the power of social networks.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by kane

I agree that the economy is playing a bigger roll right now than normal. Before people might not hesitate to spend money, but now they are more wary of their budget so they look and look and see if they can find something decent without paying before they spend the money. Buying a membership give them convenience, but they are willing to sacrifice that convenience right now to save money. As people get more and more disposable income I think we will see them become more willing to dispose of it.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

People are consuming more porn than ever before, they just aren't paying for it.

Porn tubes are in the Alexa top 100, and occasionally break the top 50.

You simply can't argue that people are not watching porn in higher numbers than ever before.

In regard to both of these statements.

Yes, people are watching porn, just like they always have. The reason they aren't paying for more or better or downloadable or higher quality or whatever porn, is because of their financial situation.

If tubes didn't exist, people would still be buying less porn, because they don't have disposable income at the moment.

If TGP's didn't exist, people would still be buying less porn, because they don't have disposable income at the moment.

If there were no naughty bits available for viewing anywhere on the internet, people would still be buying less porn, because they don't have disposable income at the moment.

Before there was an internet, before there was any such thing as free porn....porn mags and video sales and rentals would go down in a recession too. People would just use their old stash of mags or videos, or just use their damn imagination like all of us did before we discovered porn.

[Agent 488]

the fact the economy is losing 500,000+ jobs per month and 1 and 8 houses are in foreclosure or behind in payments might have a little to do with it.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

In regard to both of these statements.

Yes, people are watching porn, just like they always have. The reason they aren't paying for more or better or downloadable or higher quality or whatever porn, is because of their financial situation.

If tubes didn't exist, people would still be buying less porn, because they don't have disposable income at the moment.

If TGP's didn't exist, people would still be buying less porn, because they don't have disposable income at the moment.

If there were no naughty bits available for viewing anywhere on the internet, people would still be buying less porn, because they don't have disposable income at the moment.

Before there was an internet, before there was any such thing as free porn....porn mags and video sales and rentals would go down in a recession too. People would just use their old stash of mags or videos, or just use their damn imagination like all of us did before we discovered porn.

I agree. When things are good and people have more disposable income they are more willing to pay to make something convenient, but when times are tough they want to budget their money so they are going to be more willing to search for what they are after and try to find it for free so they don't have to pay.

[hypedough]

If you were right, then the EX-GF sites should be the best selling in this economy right?

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by hypedough

If you were right, then the EX-GF sites should be the best selling in this economy right?

what i know is for a fact that sites like www.privatamateure.com - www.mydirtyhobby.com and www.nowyoo.com have been the biggest selling sites in germany over the last 3-4 years. Waaaaaay bigger than the biggest paysites. And they made lots of webmasters and amateurs a shitload of money. today the problem is that too many people are fighting on a stagnating market but they are still the biggest money makers.

[GregE]

It seems blazingly obvious to me that the problem is as follows in more or less this exact order.

1. The shitty world economy - No further explanation needed here.
2. Tubes sites - It's kinda hard to sell shit that other people are giving away for free.
3. Card bangers - Too many surfers afraid to click the join button nowadays.

Come on folks this isn't exactly rocket science.

[Daddy Big Nuts]

Originally Posted by GregE

It seems blazingly obvious to me that the problem is as follows in more or less this exact order.

1. The shitty world economy - No further explanation needed here.
2. Tubes sites - It's kinda hard to sell shit that other people are giving away for free.
3. Card bangers - Too many surfers afraid to click the join button nowadays.

Come on folks this isn't exactly rocket science.

There you go. There are also several smaller factors...like the one the OP stated.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Basic_man

I don't think the average male, 30-45 y/o, who is usually spending money on porn, have a Facebook account and trade naked pics with young girls (ie 18+ y/o) to jerk off...

The truth. A problem is those supplying Internet porn think the customer is like them. He's not and he's not hanging round sites like Facebook to get off.

I have been in this business a bit longer than most of you and I can tell you where it went wrong. It's lack of knowledge of the customer. You can't market to someone you don't understand.

20 years ago I was selling videos, via mail order, that Astral Blue is made up of. Today I have people signing up who used to buy from me in the 80s. The bulk of that business came off the mailing list. It was largely the same people buying month in and month out. The magazine business was also based mostly on their mailing list and any porno shop owner would tell you it was the same faces buying over and over.

Then the Video and magazine business went the route of my content would bring more revenue. Worked for a few years. Then no matter how many titles were published revenue stayed the same, then it started to fall. People were not buying more porn, they just had more porn to buy. So lots of publishers reacted by cutting prices paid for content which led to the quality falling. The scenes were all starting to look the same.

This was before the Internet could deliver a video without is being compressed to thumb nail size.

So the fall of porn revenues was a long time coming.

If a paysite can't compete with free porn, then whose fault is that?

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Now there are alot of idiots on here who are going to say "people don't look at porn for fun, they look at porn to jerk off"....but whatever...alot of porn was entertainment.
Why was bangbus so popular?
Were the girls hotter than average?
No, actually the reverse in most cases.
Was their great lighting/sound/production quality?
No, the shit was shot in the back of a van.

It was just fun to watch. It seemed real. It was funny.

A lot of truth in what you say. Today too much porn is just a clone of too many other scenes. No matter how high you pile crap it's still crap.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by SZNY

Now a days there is almost no innovation introduced by online 18+ companies but simply by companies active in mainstream.

The problem is innovation costs money, needs skills and experience and above all a knowledge of the consumer to make that innovation work.

Ask a sponsor today if he would like 5 solo girl scenes in a day for $1500, or 3 for the same price. And he will go for the 5. Few girls can do 5 orgasms in a day. And few shooters can shoot 5 scenes and make them individual. This goes the same for lesbian and boy girl. So we end up with DVDs or sites that all look the same.

And we now buy DVD content like it's going to make sales. When it hardly sells in the shops.

If a porn consumer sees a video on a Tube site that really hits his needs, he will buy. The problem is he sees pulp porn that just about gets him off and would never want to buy 30 days worth of it.

The industry went for quantity over quality when the buyer needs quality over quantity.

[Fletch XXX]

i blame sports and video games! ;)

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The problem is innovation costs money, needs skills and experience and above all a knowledge of the consumer to make that innovation work.

Ask a sponsor today if he would like 5 solo girl scenes in a day for $1500, or 3 for the same price. And he will go for the 5. Few girls can do 5 orgasms in a day. And few shooters can shoot 5 scenes and make them individual. This goes the same for lesbian and boy girl. So we end up with DVDs or sites that all look the same.

And we now buy DVD content like it's going to make sales. When it hardly sells in the shops.

If a porn consumer sees a video on a Tube site that really hits his needs, he will buy. The problem is he sees pulp porn that just about gets him off and would never want to buy 30 days worth of it.

The industry went for quantity over quality when the buyer needs quality over quantity.

Paul, I am afraid we left the point at which it mattered if a girls orgasm shot by a professional shooter is real or not already far behind us. and i don't think, that any video that you or me shoot nowadays of a solo girl will make a difference - no matter if it's good or bad.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

Paul, I am afraid we left the point at which it mattered if a girls orgasm shot by a professional shooter is real or not already far behind us. and i don't think, that any video that you or me shoot nowadays of a solo girl will make a difference - no matter if it's good or bad.

It always matter if the girl is doing it for real or faking it. TO THE GUYS SPENDING MONEY. When producers say it does not matter we see the problem.

The problem is you're right we have left that point behind. I have never seen so much fake porn ever, the moment I see a content store with pictures of girls with their mouths so far open they could catch flies I'm off. It's fake, looks fake and put's the buyers off.

The point I did not make is the repeat buyer knows what he's buying. No matter how high you pile it and how well you market it he is guided by the last purchase he made. Be it cornflakes or porn.

We in porn adopted the attitude we could just get more traffic to replace those who don't buy. Be it DVD, Cable or Net. We just find excuses the hide the truth, the customer is not impressed. Be it the stands in the Berlin show telling us the Internet is taking customers or the Net blaming the economy and free porn. Neither help but not the real reasons. Porn has always been recession proof and the down turn started long before. Plus if the free scene is good the buyers sign up after seeing one scene.

[BFT3K]

Blame it on Rio!

[mynameisjim]

People like the porn that's out there. Surf the tube sites and read the comments. Even studio stuff that we as webmasters find boring gets super high ratings and praise, not to mention millions of views. The growing traffic to these videos also proves that people are not bored with the current content.

If the premise was true that customers find a majority of porn boring than the tubes would be declining. They are not.

Now what people will pay for BECAUSE they can get what they want for free, that's the real issue.

But just because you as a webmaster who lives and breathes this stuff finds it all boring, doesn't mean the customer does.

So if your sales are down I would give the following breakdown..

Up to 20% decline - because of the economy. Most industries are down between 10%-20% so porn is going to be no different.

Up to 30% decline - because of tubes. Tubes took out the casual buyer. The guy that would buy a subscription now and then. Not a hardcore collector or niche guy, just a guy who had a taste for porn every now and then. This describes most guys.

If it was only the economy or only the tubes, webmasters wouldn't be bitching all that much. But together they put the hurt on a lot of programs.

At least that's my take on it.

[perfectodollars-gabrio]

lots of real facts here, although in my opinion the main concern is that people are tired of the same stuff all over, new girls, new sites, always go and download. same stuff.