Do YOU support gay marriage ?

[polish_aristocrat]

let's see what the GFY'ers think

[Juicy D. Links]

wanna get married?

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

wanna get married?

yeah, with Franck

come to our wedding, we gonna do a 3-some

[closer]

Or are ya participating in a beauty contest?

[Pleasurepays]

i think the collapse of traditional family values is huge problem for America and western nations. for me, the issue is not "gay" or "not gay"... but rather, do you want to make a national effort to destroy an eroding value system. i also have a very low opinion of single parents.

[StuartD]

Absolutely.

I find it stupid that it's even a debate. The only people who don't support it aren't even affected by it one way or another.

The moment I, as a Canadian, have any opinion at all on the US, I'm told that I don't matter since I'm not American. So why do those very same Americans say that gays can't get married when they're not gay??

[Roby]

i think that every person have to be independent if they want marry no problem...

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i think the collapse of traditional family values is huge problem for America and western nations. for me, the issue is not "gay" or "not gay"... but rather, do you want to make a national effort to destroy an eroding value system. i also have a very low opinion of single parents.

well, I'll assume you're serious now for a chance

porn also doen't really correspond with traditional family values, as it puts emphasis on sexuality and self-pleasure...

[FrozenJag]

I think....

Who the fuck cares?

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by StuartD

Absolutely.

I find it stupid that it's even a debate. The only people who don't support it aren't even affected by it one way or another.

how about adopting children by homosexual couples then?
should have included it in the poll...

[papagmp]

I don't support marriage in any form.

[Allformyspace]

I dont support it but if 2 gays get married that dont bother me in any way.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by papagmp

I don't support marriage in any form.

Mee to,i will never get married.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

No.

8char.

[StuartD]

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

how about adopting children by homosexual couples then?
should have included it in the poll...

Why not? Are gays proven to be bad parents? Does it guarantee the child will turn out to be a criminal or something?

[Nicky]

I don't really care so I guess I'm ok with it.

[Czech]

It's a free world one way or another...

[NikKay]

Originally Posted by StuartD

Why not? Are gays proven to be bad parents? Does it guarantee the child will turn out to be a criminal or something?

Most studies show that children raised by gay parents generally turn out to be above average intellectually and emotionally. They also have no higher inclination to be gay themselves than the general population.

Considering how easy it is for most straight chicks to get knocked up versus how much an average gay couple has to go through to become a parent... it makes sense that they would take the job more seriously (statistically).

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

well, I'll assume you're serious now for a chance

porn also doen't really correspond with traditional family values, as it puts emphasis on sexuality and self-pleasure...

porn has nothing to do with a traditional nuclear family, other than the fact that 1/2 the girls in porn have major psychological issues and there was a breakdown there at some point. i meant "values" in the sense of respecting the need for an in tact family, two loving parents committed to parenting their children and being the best example to their children that they can be which is what children tend to pattern their future lives and relationships after.

[Dirty Lord]

I support \o\

[seeandsee]

i don't think marriage should exist in any form

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i think the collapse of traditional family values is huge problem for America and western nations. for me, the issue is not "gay" or "not gay"... but rather, do you want to make a national effort to destroy an eroding value system. i also have a very low opinion of single parents.

I just discussed it yesterday with a friend of mine, the family, as we knew it, as we were raised, practically doesn't exist anymore. .

On the other hand, talking about single parents, sometimes it's probably the best thing to do, to divorce, when two worlds collide, it's better for the kids if they separate.

I use to say it's better to have no father than a father that sucks.

[Vicious_B]

I support it. If they want to get married why should they be denied the right? Love is love. Homosexual couple would probably appreciate the right more being they have had to work so hard for it.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I just discussed it yesterday with a friend of mine, the family, as we knew it, as we were raised, practically doesn't exist anymore. .

On the other hand, talking about single parents, sometimes it's probably the best thing to do, to divorce, when two worlds collide, it's better for the kids if they separate.

I use to say it's better to have no father than a father that sucks.

Of course parents can/should get divorced. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold up the model of a stable, two parent home with parents who actively parent their children and who strive to be the best role models possible in terms of character and a loving relationship as something to be respected and revered.

Europe has a slightly different issue with family than in the US. In the US, the very idea of family, parenting etc are almost completely lost. i understand the rest of the developed world is moving in that direction as "family" and basic tribal behaviors become less and less necessary to the individuals and groups survival... but here, we've gone way too far. almost 1/2 of all children are born out of wedlock. most of those will have serious behavioral issues and end up in jail at some point. we have to be politically correct, we can't say "hey bitch, put a sock in your snatch and stop having kids when you aren't married and can't afford them"

I don't have anything against gay people or anything like that. i just personally believe that the general erosion of traditional values does more harm to a culture on the whole than good.

[SpicyM]

many gays on this board

[Moses G]

only if both chicks are hot

[Barefootsies]

Yep support it. They should have the right to be miserable like everyone else married.

As for the Holy rollers here's a tip. Your invisible man in the sky watching our every move 24/7 and guiding you with little angels and devil's or a Disney cricket on your shoulders, and Jesus watermarks in the underpass, created ALL of us.

So we should all have equal rights, no?

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

So we should all have equal rights, no?

what does "equal rights" mean? a morbidly obese person will argue that he deserves the right to go to the movies like everyone else and that you as the theater owner should have to provide seating for morbidly obese people, special access etc. or maybe color blind people will demand color blind friendly movies because its "their right" to enjoy the movie as anyone else would. every single person that is unhappy or dissatisfied with something can make the argument for "equal rights"

the notion of "equal rights" is much more subjective and a much more abused idea, than people tend to want to admit.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by StuartD

Why not? Are gays proven to be bad parents? Does it guarantee the child will turn out to be a criminal or something?

never put much thought into this particular issue... however, I see adoption mainly as a way for heterosexual couples who can't have children, to fulfill their desire to have them and form a 'traditional family'....... also, another important (though less frequent IMO) reason for adoptions is the desire to help to children who have been abandoned or lost their parents

having said that, in a perfect world there would be no children to adopt at all

now, I respect the fact that two men or women can love each other and want to spend their life together, however I can't just ignore the simple fact that for them to have a child, it is not natural -> consequently, they can get a child only by means od adoption

your reasoning assumes that homosexual couples are equal to heterosexual couples, not only when it comes to their rights, but also desires, or way of thinking
homosexuals make around 4-5% of the society. I don't have statistics on how many children don't have parents or are waiting to be adopted, but I assume it's a much smaller percentage.

if gay couples wanteds to have (=adopt) children, as often as heterosexul couples, I think, it would be simply impossible.
but yeah, it's not the case for some reason anyway...

Gay/lesbians make up a relatively small part of the society. Not all of them come out of the closet though. Not all of those, who do, get married. Not all of those who get married, want to adopt children.
So an adopted child, being brought up by two men or two women, surely would not be brought up in an environment that can be considered a norm... Basically, I consider it the right of the child to be adopted by a man and a woman and be raised by them as if they were his/her real parents.

[directfiesta]

spin cycle is on ... wont add any detergent to it ...

[Elixir]

I hate guys !!! I love heavy metal

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

the notion of "equal rights" is much more subjective and a much more abused idea, than people tend to want to admit.

All human races can marry. All human sexualities should be able to marry another human in regards to straight or gay.

The Constitution, and Bill of Rights, define those rights that govern this country by person or individual. Not by sexuality. Regardless of the Jewish book of fables and different organized religion's interpretation of that book.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

never put much thought into this particular issue... however, I see adoption mainly as a way for heterosexual couples who can't have children, to fulfill their desire to have them and form a 'traditional family'....... also, another important (though less frequent IMO) reason for adoptions is the desire to help to children who have been abandoned or lost their parents

an interesting thing.. i made a hoax site about adopting kids for their "non-essential organs" (eye, inner ear, bone marrow etc) and predictably got bombarded with 1000's of e-mails from adoption agencies and adopted people.

i think that if people stopped to actually take a hard look at the total number of children who are permanently scarred, they would be quite surprised. i wasn't even aware of the large number of adopted people that were against adoption and felt like their identity was stripped away etc.

and... the reasons for adoption and the process itself is quite morbid. you talk about a "desire to help children" but the fact of the matter is that people are searching for kids based on race, ethnic background, religious back ground, physical characteristics etc and going to places like Russia and paying 30,000.00 USD in "fees" in addition to the obscene fees on the US side to "help a child".

its by far one of the dirtiest and most disturbing businesses in existence in the world today.

[GothBuXXX]

Yup why not

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

never put much thought into this particular issue... however, I see adoption mainly as a way for heterosexual couples who can't have children, to fulfill their desire to have them and form a 'traditional family'....... also, another important (though less frequent IMO) reason for adoptions is the desire to help to children who have been abandoned or lost their parents

having said that, in a perfect world there would be no children to adopt at all

now, I respect the fact that two men or women can love each other and want to spend their life together, however I can't just ignore the simple fact that for them to have a child, it is not natural -> consequently, they can get a child only by means od adoption

your reasoning assumes that homosexual couples are equal to heterosexual couples, not only when it comes to their rights, but also desires, or way of thinking
homosexuals make around 4-5% of the society. I don't have statistics on how many children don't have parents or are waiting to be adopted, but I assume it's a much smaller percentage.

if gay couples wanteds to have (=adopt) children, as often as heterosexul couples, I think, it would be simply impossible.
but yeah, it's not the case for some reason anyway...

Gay/lesbians make up a relatively small part of the society. Not all of them come out of the closet though. Not all of those, who do, get married. Not all of those who get married, want to adopt children.
So an adopted child, being brought up by two men or two women, surely would not be brought up in an environment that can be considered a norm... Basically, I consider it the right of the child to be adopted by a man and a woman and be raised by them as if they were his/her real parents.

These are children no one else wanted. As long as someone else, other than the biological, wants to take and care for them. Who fucking cares?

Marriage is a fairytale sold to you by corporate America. In the end it comes down to little more than the control of assets, wealth and tax breaks. It is an institution of money management and credit rating.

Married people are considered 'more stable' and get breaks on taxes, insurance, and credit.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Marriage is a fairytale sold to you by corporate America. In the end it comes down to little more than the control of assets, wealth and tax breaks. It is an institution of money management and credit rating.

that makes perfect sense. especially since marriage only exists in america.... and not in remote rain forests of brazil or the mountains of peru, villages in afghanistan or islands of the south pacific.

sadly, for your argument the concept and understanding of marriage is universal.

[romeo22]

yep i support ... that doesnt mean Im gay

[Erik T]

I don't see why it should be a problem

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i think the collapse of traditional family values is huge problem for America and western nations. for me, the issue is not "gay" or "not gay"... but rather, do you want to make a national effort to destroy an eroding value system. i also have a very low opinion of single parents.

How can you say you have a low opinion of single parents? Or are you just picky about the circumstances. So some woman has kids with her husband and he kicks the bucket, she's a single parent... So she's a shitstain? Some couple has kids and the husband bails and leaves the woman with the kids, or the woman bails and leaves the dad with the kids.. how is that their fault? that's a pretty broad and lame statement.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

sadly, for your argument the concept and understanding of marriage is universal.

Sorry bud, universal means everyone believes in it, and not everyone does. Religious or not.

That said, it's my opinion as I do not speak for the whole world on either side of the fence.

Lastly, marriage, is commonly called, or referred to an 'institution' for a reason.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

All human races can marry. All human sexualities should be able to marry another human in regards to straight or gay.

The Constitution, and Bill of Rights, define those rights that govern this country by person or individual. Not by sexuality. Regardless of the Jewish book of fables and different organized religion's interpretation of that book.

Amen no kidding.. it was religion that made the institution of marriage what it is... And in ancient cultures, oftentimes same-sex couples were given the same rights and privledges as opposite-sex couples, because it was felt that having a loving relationship was a thing to revere.

[Useless Warrior]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

I don't have anything against gay people or anything like that. i just personally believe that the general erosion of traditional values does more harm to a culture on the whole than good.

Traditional values are not concrete concepts. They constantly evolve, albeit at a fairly slow rate. Every maturing generation tends to believe that things were somehow better and more righteous when they were young, but that's not reality - things were just different. Also, outside of the fact that a gay couple is, well, gay, how is their marriage harmful to what some might consider to be traditional values? They are people who were raised in communities that shared the same values as everyone else, so they share those values. They aren't aliens, they just happen to be attracted to the same sex.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

that makes perfect sense. especially since marriage only exists in america.... and not in remote rain forests of brazil or the mountains of peru, villages in afghanistan or islands of the south pacific.

sadly, for your argument the concept and understanding of marriage is universal.

In the other places you speak of marriage is worlds different than what we have in the "civilized" world, and their rituals are not based on politics, they are spiritual ceremonies that have deep meaning to these people, not just a piece of paper or a way to control assets or whatever. If marriage in north america had the same morals and values as they do in the less "civilized" cultures, there would be no need for pre-nuptual agreements. Tell me those on their own are not a sign that marriage is about finances.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Traditional values are not concrete concepts. They constantly evolve, albeit at a fairly slow rate. Every maturing generation tends to believe that things were somehow better and more righteous when they were young, but that's not reality - things were just different. Also, outside of the fact that a gay couple is, well, gay, how is their marriage harmful to what some might consider to be traditional values? They are people who were raised in communities that shared the same values as everyone else, so they share those values. They aren't aliens, they just happen to be attracted to the same sex.

So true. Even animals in nature have homosexual relationships, and some have lifetime pairings with same-sex mates. We are animals, and as much as we like to feel that we are above them, we are governed by the same instincts that cause them to engage in a very natural (albiet different from the "norm") behavior.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

How can you say you have a low opinion of single parents? Or are you just picky about the circumstances. So some woman has kids with her husband and he kicks the bucket, she's a single parent... So she's a shitstain? Some couple has kids and the husband bails and leaves the woman with the kids, or the woman bails and leaves the dad with the kids.. how is that their fault? that's a pretty broad and lame statement.

not a low opinion of single parents. i mean that its an idea that should be frowned upon. of course circumstances come up , people get divorced, spouses die etc. i'm saying that as a society, people should be looking at a nuclear family as the model to be... not be viewed as simply one totally acceptable option.

[brassmonkey]

no comment

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

So true. Even animals in nature have homosexual relationships, and some have lifetime pairings with same-sex mates. We are animals, and as much as we like to feel that we are above them, we are governed by the same instincts that cause them to engage in a very natural (albiet different from the "norm") behavior.

instinct does not cause abnormal behavior. if that was true, then a serial killer would simply be acting on instinct.

how do you deduce that an abnormal behavior is "natural" when by the very fact that its admittedly abnormal, and is clearly an exception to the rule ... which logic would then dictate that its "unnatural".

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Traditional values are not concrete concepts. They constantly evolve, albeit at a fairly slow rate. Every maturing generation tends to believe that things were somehow better and more righteous when they were young, but that's not reality - things were just different. Also, outside of the fact that a gay couple is, well, gay, how is their marriage harmful to what some might consider to be traditional values? They are people who were raised in communities that shared the same values as everyone else, so they share those values. They aren't aliens, they just happen to be attracted to the same sex.

your idea of "values" being fluid ignores the fact that accepted values can also be harmful on the whole. for example, a single parent family is more likely to produce a child that will end up in prison. saying "its totally ok to be a single mom... you go girl and don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it", might be acceptable, but its a behavior that also comes with negative consequences that affect society as a whole.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

instinct does not cause abnormal behavior. if that was true, then a serial killer would simply be acting on instinct.

how do you deduce that an abnormal behavior is "natural" when by the very fact that its admittedly abnormal, and is clearly an exception to the rule ... which logic would then dictate that its "unnatural".

Just become a behavior is less common doesn't mean it's unnatural. It's through these kind of things happening that adaptation occurs. Same-sex relationships between animals were around LONG before the institution of marriage. It's a little odd to think that something that's been around before recorded history gets trumped by something that came essentially recently and is entirely a construct of religion and politics?

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

not a low opinion of single parents. i mean that its an idea that should be frowned upon. of course circumstances come up , people get divorced, spouses die etc. i'm saying that as a society, people should be looking at a nuclear family as the model to be... not be viewed as simply one totally acceptable option.

There's as many fucked up nuclear families as there are single-parent ones. A family is what you make it, and people don't always get to choose. Who made you god or the president or whatever to make you feel that your ideals should be the ones everyone lives by? We all do the best we can to live life every day, we roll with the punches and do what we must. Nobody's ideals for society can fit every situation, and it's narrow-minded and silly to believe that a one-solution-fits-all ideal is really something possible, viable, or even logical.