hey AVNChris, I have a question for you...

[HELMY]

Regarding this message that you posted before the show...




Based on the above criteria , which shows do you suggest that industry folks forgo attending/sponsoring in 2010?


LAJ got you in the other thread, now it's my turn - lol.

You know I love you man, right?

[Juicy D. Links]

I am eating some chelo kebab now

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

I am eating some chelo kebab now

Is it good?

[RyuLion]

Chris,

you know ass bitting is my thing..I guess twisting guys nipples is yours..

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by HouseHead

Is it good?

its to die for BBBurppppppppp

[FightThisPatent]

"most value"... highly subjective based on your biz.

if you are an affiliate manager, i would say don't bother going to any shows. playing "spot the affiliate" game is useless....a wiredguy doesn't count

if you are a vendor (hosting, billing, traffic, marketing, etc), go to all of the shows.. always a few leads there you walk away with, and closing on atleast 1 usually pays for the trip.
----

"most attendees"...not a measuring stick, but like with conversions, it is a numbers game.... if the door ticket was free, you could get alot of "riff raff" in. i know that the past xbiz vegas show got that criticism from others, but I thought it was a great move on xbiz's part to open up the show so that more could attend.

if there was riff raff, i ignore them. if it brought in more people that I normally wouldn't have been able to meet, then its worth it.

-----

"most decision makers".... that applies more to vendors.... as a vendor, if i can talk to the decision maker directly, then that helps alot with closing... so definitely an important factor.... but if you were an affiliate, that means nothing.


my overall characterizations of shows that i usually attend:

internext in vegas - its vegas, great time to enjoy vegas as well as do the convention thing. hate the palms hotel

xbiz in LA - great show, brings in alot of the LA-based folks (which is alot of the industry). didn't particularly like the roosevelt hotel, but definitely a great event. LA folks usually end up going home, so less of them to hang out with at night.

phoenix forum - great show, contained for industry, yet in social setting in the surroundings. they put alot of attention into making the event great for attendees

cybernet expo - smaller event, but alot of face time with companies. the tampa show was really small, but I got alot of biz done, and got to spend time hanging with people that i normally don't get to see at bigger shows. YNOT team puts alot of effort to make things work. I didn't make it to the SF shows, but have gone the prior 3 years.

xbiz at vegas - hot time of the year. not too keen about the hard rock hotel. brings in people to the show because it is in vegas.

internext in hollywood - contained environment, not much else to do unless you get a road trip down to miami. lots of places to hangout and chat with people. always a productive show as it brings in alot of europeans who find it a shorter flight to FL, then going for another 4+ hours to head out west. i noticed alot more european companies this year trying to make their break into US market

webmaster access west (LA) - smaller event, but brings in the LA crew and get to chat/hang with many people. since most live in LA, they end up disappearing back home, so less chance for that 1am - 3am time of hanging (some of the best biz conversations / bonding moments happen during that time) in the lobby and getting some additional biz done.


I haven't gone to any of the shows outside the US.... i am hoping to, but its an increased expense after already going to 3-5 shows already in the US.

---

after 4 years of doing 3-5 adult shows and 1-2 mainstream shows, i have cut back. i didn't make it to Phoenix Forum, xbiz, and cybernet. I wasn't going to go to internext hollywood, but at last minute decided to go, and i am so glad that i did.

Fight the $0.04!

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

playing "spot the affiliate" game is useless....a wiredguy doesn't count

Its hard spotting affiliates, I found a couple at Internext but in general they're a rare breed from any show these days.
WG

[Daruma]

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Its hard spotting affiliates, I found a couple at Internext but in general they're a rare breed from any show these days.

the ones that are there, usually have their expenses paid by sponsors, won a contest, etc.

I attended a couple of Affiliate Summits (mainstream). Lots of affiliates go (along with vendors, programs, etc). Cost is $199-ish for the convention floor ticket plus flight and hotel, so it does have similar expenses as the adult shows, but the mainstream side brings out the affiliates, whereas with adult, they stay away.

Fight the affiliate hide & seek game!

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

the ones that are there, usually have their expenses paid by sponsors, won a contest, etc.

I attended a couple of Affiliate Summits (mainstream). Lots of affiliates go (along with vendors, programs, etc). Cost is $199-ish for the convention floor ticket plus flight and hotel, so it does have similar expenses as the adult shows, but the mainstream side brings out the affiliates, whereas with adult, they stay away.

Fight the affiliate hide & seek game!

Have you noticed the size difference though? AdTech in NYC is typically 3 floors of exhibitors and about 15000 attendees (rough number from 2 years ago). The sheer size/volume of that is bound to offer a really good return on investment. Adult simply can't compare to mainstream as the number of webmasters and attendees isn't comparable anymore.
WG

[FightThisPatent]

I posted this in chris' tradeshow thread.. doing it again here for those that plan events as suggestions:


- look at the success of mainstream shows where attendance is free. look at affiliateconvention.com (SEguru) who had over 1200 affiliates attending. Sponsors would certainly want to spend money on sponsorships if they knew affiliates were going to be there.

- have a dinner dating thing, where people who come to the shows who don't know anyone, could be paired up with a small group. sorta like they do on cruise ships. could even do matchmaking by letting people check-off what kinds of people they want to meet or just make it random because people have such diverse backgrounds and interests.

- basically do more to help people connect.... i can understand how hard it is to meet new people when you have so many that do know each other already. if attendees could have a way to connect, they could get more value out of the face time and see the value of coming out to a show.

- social party situations where its not so loud. Having a social environment that allows for that opportunity is priceless, and i appreciate and cherish all the conversations I have had with people to learn more about them, and for them to know more about me as being more than "that guy" that posts on the boards about biz/industry issues


Fight the stuffing of the feedback box!

[C H R I S]

So sorry if I offended you Alec - I was simply promoting my show which I feel turned out exceptionally - a sentiment shared by everyone I spoke too.

I was not referring to your Show- actually I really enjoy both your shows.

If you ever want to chat about how we can work together to schedule shows better for the entire industry please call me.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by RyuLion

Chris,

you know ass bitting is my thing..I guess twisting guys nipples is yours..

ouch

[RevShare it!]

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

I am eating some chelo kebab now

yummmmmm

[LAJ]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Its hard spotting affiliates, I found a couple at Internext but in general they're a rare breed from any show these days.
WG

Not at Cybernet Expo... we had plenty.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

the ones that are there, usually have their expenses paid by sponsors, won a contest, etc.

I attended a couple of Affiliate Summits (mainstream). Lots of affiliates go (along with vendors, programs, etc). Cost is $199-ish for the convention floor ticket plus flight and hotel, so it does have similar expenses as the adult shows, but the mainstream side brings out the affiliates, whereas with adult, they stay away.

Fight the affiliate hide & seek game!

A lot more for them. Adult in the hey-day never compared to any affiliate summit or ad tech (not counting Chicago) that I have been to. Even the Chicago shows beat today's adult shows as far as exhibitors are concerned.

[CDSmith]

Going off on a complete tangent for a second here...

Originally Posted by HELMY

I love you man

We just don't get enough "I love you man" threads anymore since Amp quit posting them years ago.

Nice to see one pop up every now and again. :D

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

We just don't get enough "I love you man" threads anymore since Amp quit posting them years ago.

i think we all miss the guy a little

[12clicks]

If I had to rank my top 3 by productivity, I'd say:

Phoenix Forum
XBIZ LA
Internext Miami

hmmm, actually I'd rank them that way for enjoyment as well and I'm sure those three can be switched into any order with no complaints.
webmaster access LA comes in a strong 4th.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

If I had to rank my top 3 by productivity, I'd say:

Phoenix Forum
XBIZ LA
Internext Miami

hmmm, actually I'd rank them that way for enjoyment as well and I'm sure those three can be switched into any order with no complaints.
webmaster access LA comes in a strong 4th.

We're you at the show Ron?

[C H R I S]

BTW - Helmy - I love you too. Want to go out for lunch?

Theres a great Falafel joint near the office or I could come over your way...

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

We're you at the show Ron?

skipped this year. I'm traveling the rest of the month so I chose not to do miami in august.
heard from my friends that it was pretty well attended all things considered.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

skipped this year. I'm traveling the rest of the month so I chose not to do miami in august.
heard from my friends that it was pretty well attended all things considered.

Missed ya man. See you in amsterdam??

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

Missed ya man. See you in amsterdam??

nah, skipping amsterdam too.

and yeah, I missed internext. pretty sure I've been there 6-8 years in a row

[HELMY]

Chris,

I wasn't looking for an apology because your comment doesn't apply to XBIZ.

You made a bold competitive statement that begs for interpretation now that everyone's talking about trade shows.

I posted this mainly for the amusement factor because everyone would love to find out which shows you want to see gone.

Undoubtedly you were referencing the same shows that consider you their media partner.

Something just surfaced here - I'll let people figure it out.

[CurrentlySober]

I FUCKIN HATE... Poppy Morgan..

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by HELMY

Chris,

I wasn't looking for an apology because your comment doesn't apply to XBIZ.

You made a bold competitive statement that begs for interpretation now that everyone's talking about trade shows.

I posted this mainly for the amusement factor because everyone would love to find out which shows you want to see gone.

Undoubtedly you were referencing the same shows that consider you their media partner.

Something just surfaced here - I'll let people figure it out.

We are completely committed to OUR media partners - CYBERNET, QUEBEC, WEBMASTER ACCESS and PHOENIX FORUM.

[corvette]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

We are completely committed to OUR media partners - CYBERNET, QUEBEC, WEBMASTER ACCESS and PHOENIX FORUM.

why are we listed last?

[corvette]

im just kidding chris

[MikeHawk]

Originally Posted by HELMY

Chris,

I wasn't looking for an apology because your comment doesn't apply to XBIZ.

You made a bold competitive statement that begs for interpretation now that everyone's talking about trade shows.

I posted this mainly for the amusement factor because everyone would love to find out which shows you want to see gone.

Undoubtedly you were referencing the same shows that consider you their media partner.

Something just surfaced here - I'll let people figure it out.

Helmy and Chris.....and all the rest..

First must say that AVN/Internext pulled a "rabbit out of the hat" on this one, great show, congrats...from us/smashbucks it was the biggest show in the history of our company (9 years) for our agenda. It was 2006 since out last visit to Miami, since Cabana 18 live broadcast.

I said it to Bonnie i will say it here on GFY....In my opinion all you guys have to know this, your formula, booth, panels, bag drops, banners, big events is antiquated old and outdated.... and old business model that you either fix or will just run out of gas down the road.

Phoenix works so well, for many reasons, simple all in one place, affordable, this is why they "sell out" the past 3 years. From a sponsors point of view we are not treated so much as "business". Phoenix Forum we co/sponsor the biggest Poker room all three nights of the show, that for us grew and grew into the biggest best networking event in our history. Not only that it is fun the entire time again...simple.

The winds of change are a blowin, they have been for some time, will be interesting to see who steps up to make the changes that are desperately needed...

Was great seeing everyone in Miami

mh

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by HELMY

Chris,

I wasn't looking for an apology because your comment doesn't apply to XBIZ.

chris said internext was better attended than summer xbiz, i think the show buzz confirms this.

alec, are you saying xbiz had more attendees than internext? trying to figure out specifically what your problem was with what chris had said, other than you being a irked competitor because his show appears to have gone well

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

if you are an affiliate manager, i would say don't bother going to any shows. playing "spot the affiliate" game is useless....a wiredguy doesn't count

if you are a vendor (hosting, billing, traffic, marketing, etc), go to all of the shows.. always a few leads there you walk away with, and closing on atleast 1 usually pays for the trip.

Yeah we discussed this at the show briefly...

However some affiliate/marketing managers have a broader scope than just reaching out to affiliates/webmasters with free sites, especially nowadays.

Representing the company as a face and point of contact is important... and having 2-3 people running around the show is better than just 1.

[PhillipB]

I wonder which company will be the first to develop an entirely virtual show...

I think the technology is there and think of the attendance...

[LAJ]

Originally Posted by MikeHawk

Phoenix works so well, for many reasons, simple all in one place, affordable

Yup... and that's been Cybernet Expo's theme since the 90s

[HELMY]

Originally Posted by jcsike

chris said internext was better attended than summer xbiz, i think the show buzz confirms this.

alec, are you saying xbiz had more attendees than internext? trying to figure out specifically what your problem was with what chris had said, other than you being a irked competitor because his show appears to have gone well

You missed the point.

This conversation has not been about who puts on the best show (that's always subjective), but about a contradictory public statement.

Every event deserves its props for facilitating new opportunities.

[K R I S T E N]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

We are completely committed to OUR media partners - CYBERNET, QUEBEC, WEBMASTER ACCESS and PHOENIX FORUM.

Really Chris?

WHO do you THINK you are kidding? I have witnesses who have heard you trash talk ONE of the VERY IMPORTANT media partners you list here...saying "...I hope [their shows] disappear...their show [here] sucks...they probably won?t have one in 2010..." if THAT is how you show your "support" I am SO HAPPY to not have it from you!

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by jcsike

chris said internext was better attended than summer xbiz, i think the show buzz confirms this.

alec, are you saying xbiz had more attendees than internext? trying to figure out specifically what your problem was with what chris had said, other than you being a irked competitor because his show appears to have gone well

I think what he's saying is AVN got a little overzealous by saying, "Take note for the future, attend and invest your marketing budget in the shows that deliver the MOST VALUE, MOST ATTENDEES, and the MOST DECISION MAKERS."

If AVN feels that THIS show has the "most" everything, then they're saying that people should be attending and investing in THIS show. That's going to take away attendees and sponsors from the OTHER shows...some of which are AVN's "media partners".

It probably wasn't an intentional attempt to have sponsors and attendees abandon his partners shows, but the statement wasn't exactly well thought out either. I could see the media partners who run smaller shows being a little ticked off by that.

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

Really Chris?

WHO do you THINK you are kidding? I have witnesses who have heard you trash talk ONE of the VERY IMPORTANT media partners you list here...saying "...I hope [their shows] disappear...their show [here] sucks...they probably won?t have one in 2010..." if THAT is how you show your "support" I am SO HAPPY to not have it from you!

its pretty tactless for a professional company like xbiz to pull the "well, somebody told me you were talking shit about somebody" in public about their competitor

the agenda is pretty transparent politics here, are we in high school?

and if he did say it to somebody, it sounded as if he wasnt saying it to disparage them (like you and Alex are in public here), but in an adult trade show market that lost a lot of steam this year, which show do you think has a perception of being the weakest and may in fact "suck", and is likely to not be around next year, in a market where even Tony had to pull out

my advice is to take the higher road here, even if you heard something that has merit or not, keep it to yourself

[B2BwithJoeD]

Originally Posted by APN Philip

I wonder which company will be the first to develop an entirely virtual show...

I think the technology is there and think of the attendance...

Interesting observation, and Marc Laffer at AdultChamber has already created the software...

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by jcsike

its pretty tactless for a professional company like xbiz to pull the "well, somebody told me you were talking shit about somebody" in public about their competitor

the agenda is pretty transparent politics here, are we in high school?

and if he did say it to somebody, it sounded as if he wasnt saying it to disparage them (like you and Alex are in public here), but in an adult trade show market that lost a lot of steam this year, which show do you think has a perception of being the weakest and may in fact "suck", and is likely to not be around next year, in a market where even Tony had to pull out

my advice is to take the higher road here, even if you heard something that has merit or not, keep it to yourself

Well said.

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

Really Chris?

WHO do you THINK you are kidding? I have witnesses who have heard you trash talk ONE of the VERY IMPORTANT media partners you list here...saying "...I hope [their shows] disappear...their show [here] sucks...they probably won?t have one in 2010..." if THAT is how you show your "support" I am SO HAPPY to not have it from you!

If I attended shows regularly, your lack of professionalism here would make me reconsider attending yours.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

If I attended shows regularly, your lack of professionalism here would make me reconsider attending yours.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

Really Chris?

WHO do you THINK you are kidding? I have witnesses who have heard you trash talk ONE of the VERY IMPORTANT media partners you list here...saying "...I hope [their shows] disappear...their show [here] sucks...they probably won?t have one in 2010..." if THAT is how you show your "support" I am SO HAPPY to not have it from you!

Liar.

[HELMY]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

I think what he's saying is AVN got a little overzealous by saying, "Take note for the future, attend and invest your marketing budget in the shows that deliver the MOST VALUE, MOST ATTENDEES, and the MOST DECISION MAKERS."

If AVN feels that THIS show has the "most" everything, then they're saying that people should be attending and investing in THIS show. That's going to take away attendees and sponsors from the OTHER shows...some of which are AVN's "media partners".

It probably wasn't an intentional attempt to have sponsors and attendees abandon his partners shows, but the statement wasn't exactly well thought out either. I could see the media partners who run smaller shows being a little ticked off by that.

Point nailed.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by HELMY

Point nailed.

Incorrect.

[ExLust]

Makes me hungry.

[C H R I S]

Hummus anyone?

[RyuLion]

wow, this thread is turning upside down..

[ShellyCrash]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

Hummus anyone?

Roasted red pepper?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by corvette

why are we listed last?

Originally Posted by APN Philip

I wonder which company will be the first to develop an entirely virtual show...

I think the technology is there and think of the attendance...

Already been done for several years [in mainstream]. They are pretty good too.