Busted a porn addict trying to chargeback...

[psyko514]

for those who don't know, my day job is customer service rep at TD Visa.
i spoke to a new cardholder the other day who was asking for the fax # for the chargeback dept. so he could dispute some charges.
i looked at his account, and for the month of november alone, he had a dozen charges from ibill, ccbill and a few others. the only charges on his account were for porn, and the total was ~$600 CDN for November.
i had his email address since he does webbanking with us. i logged into his ccbill and ibill accounts and saw that all the accounts were indeed opened under his name and his email address, and the username on several accounts was a play on his name. amongst the sites was a lightspeed site (i think university cheerleaders).

anyways, i busted this guy, and if he raises a stink, we ruin his credit and report his as a fraudster.

[L0stMind]

Well, it's a small step but its a step in the right direction.

Good job.

[beemk]

how did you get his ccbill and ibill account passwords?

[SpeakEasy]

Originally posted by L0stMind
Well, it's a small step but its a step in the right direction.

Good job.

[Dirty F]

Get them fuckers!

[asuna]

Originally posted by beemk
how did you get his ccbill and ibill account passwords?

he works for visa, im sure they have their ways

[picindex]

chargebacks suck the fat one!

they are abused and too easily given! All you gotta do is call your bank and tell them ?fraudulent charge? and boom you instantly win. It is bullshit. Sometimes chargebacks are necessary but not every charge on your statement is ?fraud?.

it all comes down to if the cardholders bank wants to give them the chargeback or not.

you can have a signed agreement and the dude has a $50k line with a bank - he will still win because the bank does not want to lose them as a customer.

I lost a merchant account once due to chargebacks. Learned allot from it.



good job on the bust!

[reddawg]

I hate them bastards who claim " I don't know who used my card, it was unauthorized."

I also hate those cheating fuckers!!!!

[Pipecrew]

I know its policy on how you deal with shit at visa, but charging anything back with visa is a fucking nightmare, why anyone would waste there time is beyond me..... takes about 6 months before you see any results

[Dugmor]

Is this you ONLY job.. ... can I hire you for contract work ???

[posh rat in hell]

Hey,

Out of curiosity... But how do you know that he isn't telling the truth, and he bought something from some place that was a scam, and stole the credit card number, and he used the same user/password for his email account as he did for the scame site he signed up for?

Yes, most likely 'the simplest explanation is most likely to be true' -- he just signed up and is lying about it now. I'm just curious how you can tell the difference if he wasn't lying.

If someone stole my CC and rang up crazy charges on porn site memberships, I'd still like to be able to chargeback and defend myself, not just be assumed guilty.

[Cash]

psyko514, you did a very good job to bust those
cheaters
Too bad you can't deal with the chargebacks I have with my sponsors

[psyko514]

Originally posted by beemk
how did you get his ccbill and ibill account passwords?

if you visit ibill or ccbill's cust. serv page, you only need 2 of the following 3: card number, email address and subscription id. i have email and card number. once in, a customer can see all the sites they've joined billed by that company, and then cancel.

Originally posted by beemk
[b]takes about 6 months before you see any results[/b[

you need to get a new card from a new bank, cause they're fucking you over. when a draft retreival is requested (when someone initiates a chargeback), the merchant has 45 days (weekends/holidays included) to send us the draft. if they don't, the funds are pulled from thier accts and credited to your account. if they send it to us, we mail a copy out the cardholder. he/she looks over, fills out the attached affafdavit accordingly, and if it's resolved in the cardholder's favor, the credit is issued within 5 business days.
on the majority of chargeback cases, there's a time limit of 120 days, meaning the chargeback must be resolved within 120 of the transaction date or else chargeback rights are lost.
if chargeback rights are lost and it's due to a delay on visa's part, visa will usually credit the account "out of their pockets" with no "harm" to the merchant.

[Shaggy]

i would be embarrased disputing a porn chargeback, I can't believe the amount of people that do it.

[psyko514]

Originally posted by picindex
All you gotta do is call your bank and tell them ?fraudulent charge? and boom you instantly win.

it all comes down to if the cardholders bank wants to give them the chargeback or not.

you can have a signed agreement and the dude has a $50k line with a bank - he will still win because the bank does not want to lose them as a customer.

their not as easy as that. i admit they're easy for online charges, but still not that easy.

as for that line about it's whether or not we want to give it to the cardholder, that is plain bullshit. the chargeback process is completly objective, and a $500 credit line who's been with us for 6 months is treated the same as a $50k credit line with a 20 year history.
cardholder fraud is taken very seriously. if it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that the charge is/isn't the cardholder's, the situation will be resolved accordingly.

if you feel you get a lot of chargebacks that you can prove without a reasonable doubt that it's a false chargeback, contact your merchant bank or processor and speak to them about REPRESENTMENT. see if they'll cringe or pretend they don't know what you're talking about.

[psyko514]

Originally posted by posh rat in hell
Hey,

Out of curiosity... But how do you know that he isn't telling the truth, and he bought something from some place that was a scam, and stole the credit card number, and he used the same user/password for his email account as he did for the scame site he signed up for?

Yes, most likely 'the simplest explanation is most likely to be true' -- he just signed up and is lying about it now. I'm just curious how you can tell the difference if he wasn't lying.

If someone stole my CC and rang up crazy charges on porn site memberships, I'd still like to be able to chargeback and defend myself, not just be assumed guilty.

if someone had stolen his card or his card number was compromised, he has to have his account cancelled and have another issued. he also has to sign a legal affadavit stating that he did not authorize these charges. once we get that affadavit, our fraud management team will do an investigation, and chargeback accordingly.

how do i tell if someone's lying or not? first, i advise them that i've accessed their account and seen that the sign-ups were done under their name, email address, etc. usually, they'll stop dead there and say something like "ooh... so that's what that is... i forgot about that"
if they press further, alleging fraud, i advise them of the procedures outlined above. at that point, they say "well, i'll contact the company and see what this is" or "i'll ask my boyfriend/wife/roommate/etc"
if they press further once again, i find out what ISP they use (either by asking or looking for it on their bill). then i contact ibill/ccbill/whoever and get the ip address used, do a reverse dns lookup and see if it matches. if it's completely off (like he uses a montreal isp and it resolves to a denver isp), i'll put him in touch with fraud management.

[Funkito]

psyko 514, you should get a prize for doing a great fucking job and posting good info. Thanks.

[[The Leader]]

Gotta love porn webmasters who work for visa.

[EscortBiz]

Chargeback rules will have to change, people are abusing it and hurting merchants in every industry.

[psyko514]

dude, if merchants in other industries kept good records and did their job properly, they would never be charged back.

[Mikeee]

I understand that the guy is probably a porn addict. But, you are not in a position to judge anyone yet. Maybe there was a small charge or something he wanted desputed. Then you have the balls to come in here and tell us you went into his iBill and ccBill accounts. Now the guys' privacy was invaded and he has no clue.

Dont get me wrong, I run a paysite and hate the fuckers just as much, but unless you can prove 100%, then you got nothing.

If its true, then I hope he rots for that. If its not, I hope you rot for being a dumbass.

[psyko514]

Originally posted by Mikeee
I understand that the guy is probably a porn addict. But, you are not in a position to judge anyone yet. Maybe there was a small charge or something he wanted desputed. Then you have the balls to come in here and tell us you went into his iBill and ccBill accounts. Now the guys' privacy was invaded and he has no clue.

Dont get me wrong, I run a paysite and hate the fuckers just as much, but unless you can prove 100%, then you got nothing.

If its true, then I hope he rots for that. If its not, I hope you rot for being a dumbass.

perhaps you don't know how to read?
i never judged him. he was attempting to chargeback all $600 worth of memberships. he allowed me to investigate the charges further for him. i then logged into his account and advised him of my findings. he decided to drop the chargeback after that.

the only way the credit card companies can help reduce chargebacks is buy "invading their privacy". if we have reason to suspect that you are committing fraud against us, we have every right to investigate further.
your credit card is not really yours, and it is not a right. it is a privilege accorded to you by your bank. turn your card over and read it. there's a line that says something like this: "THIS CARD IS PROPERTY OF THE BANK AND MUST BE RETURNED UPON REQUEST".

[PA_Patrick]

I think that you did a great job in catching this guy but be careful not to risk your job in catching them. I am sure that there is some sort of rule against taking someone's info and going to another site and using them to get information on the person actions.

A crook is a crook and it's a good thing you caught him but be careful with how you present your findings to the Fraud Department of your company. I wouldn't tell them the part about taking the info and logging in IBill and CCBill. Just teach the Fraud Department of the way to check on these things (unless ofcourse you work for the fraud department and didn't mention it on this thread).

All in all a good job, I wish all credit card companies had employees that know about the adult internet business so they can stop all these crooks from charging back their own charges.

[psyko514]

this is a project i'm working on in my call center, with my manager and center director's approval. we're working on making this center-wide, and then country-wide after that.
customer service is "the front line" and we try to reduce the number of useless cases going to fraud or chargeback.
as for there being a rule... the credit card information belongs to us, not to the cardholder. we're not breaking any privacy laws, as the ccBill or whoever already has all this guy's info on file, and we're just double-checking it with them.
it's basically the reverse of a merchant calling us to verify the name and address of a cardholder.

if i put the guy's email address in and nothing comes up, or if it's not under his name, then i have to allow him to chargeback.

Originally posted by PA_Patrick
I think that you did a great job in catching this guy but be careful not to risk your job in catching them. I am sure that there is some sort of rule against taking someone's info and going to another site and using them to get information on the person actions.

A crook is a crook and it's a good thing you caught him but be careful with how you present your findings to the Fraud Department of your company. I wouldn't tell them the part about taking the info and logging in IBill and CCBill. Just teach the Fraud Department of the way to check on these things (unless ofcourse you work for the fraud department and didn't mention it on this thread).

All in all a good job, I wish all credit card companies had employees that know about the adult internet business so they can stop all these crooks from charging back their own charges.

[PA_Patrick]

Great, good to hear credit card companies are taking action. This chargeback thing is just getting out of hand. Thanks for the info.

[asuna]

hey im in montreal too, can u get me a job there?