Selling property yourself is fun. NO REAL ESTATE AGENTS

[rowan]

I've got 3 people bidding against each other for the property which went onto the market only on Monday. The starting price I set was slightly optimistic to give me some room to move downwards, but the bidding has now gone well beyond that. Net profit has gone up to +20% (compared to the initial listing price) just this evening. All of them are keen to sign and one can even settle - everything done since they don't need to secure finance - within 2 weeks of signing. That sort of time frame is flabbergasting.

I'm communicating with the 3 buyers directly. No lazy real estate agents to say "fuck it" and try to talk the vendor (myself) into selling to person X because they can't be bothered making multiple calls to get the best possible price.

Now the hard part is convincing my wife which is the best offer, without getting bogged down in sob stories. That's the bad thing about DIY, they all seem like really nice people, but at least two of them are going to be disappointed. She's already had a cry about one guy being beaten in a bid because she thought he was so nice. I am not joking.

[pr0]

I market myself as the nicest guy on earth to 18-22 year old girls. I meet with their parents on occassion too. Like the preachers daughter (southern baptist) last week. But then i fuck them (usually raw dog) about 2 dozen times & leave them with a sore asshole. Then i get a brand new pre-paid phone. Oh & my address.....well i take them in a back way every time & make about 7 unnecessary turns.

Moral of the story, fuck them....they might just be pr0 trying to get into your pants. Go for the highest price & the person who has it in cash.....NOW.

[rowan]

Yep, top provisional offer would be "subject to finance" and would need a longer settlement. If the cashed up people make an offer close to it I'll probably accept. If finance falls through with one of the other buyers then that's 2 weeks I've been telling people that the property is no longer available, then suddenly it's back on the market.

[pr0]

I would take the cashed up people at a 10% drop.

From what you've said you already made the original post at a 10-20% mark up right?

Just be careful how long you take. The cashed up people will start smelling a rat soon, even though it doesn't exist.

[alias]

Originally Posted by pr0

Go for the highest price & the person who has it in cash.....NOW.

Yeah go for the offer from the people with the cash.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by pr0

I would take the cashed up people at a 10% drop.

From what you've said you already made the original post at a 10-20% mark up right?

Just be careful how long you take. The cashed up people will start smelling a rat soon, even though it doesn't exist.

One of the bidders the cash buyers are against is within their own family... and the other guy doesn't know they're bidding against him! So at least they know I'm not just fabricating these bids and/or bidders...

[Davy]

According to the Freakonomics book, real estate agents will not work in your interest, because they don't have the right incentives.
So good for you.

[rowan]

There's now 5 interested parties, 3 of them builders (no finance involved)

It's getting a lot harder because I'm going back and forth, people are getting narky about having to bump their offers in baby steps. 2 of the buyers just came into the mix today.

I tried to be smart by coming up with a reverse auction like this,

set current price $xxxk (about 3% above the current offer)

- if one purchaser agrees to this price, their offer will be accepted.
- if two or more purchasers agree to this price, the purchaser whose offer is accepted will be chosen randomly.
- if NO purchasers agree to this price, the current price shall be dropped by 5k and the cycle will repeat one more time.
- if after two cycles no one has agreed to the price the current standing offer for $xxxk will be accepted.

... but I don't think the buyers are too impressed. :D

[epitome]

Ah, I've seen so many optimistic people that ended up calling me...

I hope you don't end up like one of them.

Getting an accepted offer on the table is the easy part. Getting everybody to the settlement table is where the work is.

Many are successful at it, many many many more think that they will be.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Davy

According to the Freakonomics book, real estate agents will not work in your interest, because they don't have the right incentives.
So good for you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the book says that there is no incentive to get it sold for top dollar, right? The theory on that being that the net profit for the agent may actually decrease while waiting for top dollar.

If so, then yeah.

Well, not really. Just like in adult, real estate has people that are about the dollar today and will cut any corners needed to make it and then there are the people that are in it for the long haul and rely on referrals ... they are typically the more honest in the bunch.

Then you have agents like me (although I don't actively sell -- I have a team for that) who pretty much rubber stamp things for the banks ... selling off their foreclosure inventory. In our case, the bank has an asset manager that does pretty much everything important remotely ... our job is to be the eyes and the ears for the property.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by epitome

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the book says that there is no incentive to get it sold for top dollar, right? The theory on that being that the net profit for the agent may actually decrease while waiting for top dollar.

In my area the typical commission seems to be about 2.5%. If a property is listed at $500k but the agent talks the vendor down to an offer of $450k, the vendor is out $50k but the agent is only down $1.25k... they still get $11,250 for their "trouble"

I'd say there would be more incentive to short sell a property with a slightly lower net commission, and QUICKLY, so they can get their cut and move onto the next vict...err... client.

[sandman!]

unless the agent is broke needing the $$$ real quick for his bills your example makes no sence i dont know 1 agent that does not try to make as much as they can.

Originally Posted by rowan

In my area the typical commission seems to be about 2.5%. If a property is listed at $500k but the agent talks the vendor down to $450k, the vendor is out $50k but the agent is only down $1.25k... they still get $11,250 for their "trouble"

I'd say there would be more incentive to short sell a property with a slightly lower net commission, and QUICKLY, so they can get their cut and move onto the next vict...err... client.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by sandman!

unless the agent is broke needing the $$$ real quick for his bills your example makes no sence i dont know 1 agent that does not try to make as much as they can.

Put it this way... would you forego 10% if it meant you got your $ a month or two sooner?

Getting rid of a property also frees up advertising space as well as time.

[sandman!]

no i would not also im not broke either only an idiot would take less $$$ just to get it a little sooner.

Originally Posted by rowan

Put it this way... would you forego 10% if it meant you got your $ a month or two sooner?

Getting rid of a property also frees up advertising space as well as time.

[Iron Fist]

Real Estate agents are there to make money QUICKLY... which is why they don't hang around for the highest bid, or do little baby stepping bids like your doing right now. They would rather close er down now, walk away with their commission and get to work on another house tomorrow. Time is money, and they know it better than anyone else....

[kane]

Good luck and if I were you I would pick an offer and go with it because if you keep dragging it out it could bite you in the ass. I flipped a house with some friends several years ago and at first we tried to sell it on our own. The market was hot right then and right out the gate we got a few offers. Eventually we ended up with 4 people we thought were really serious. Those people bid back and forth and it came down to 2 that had cash and 2 that needed financing. We accepted a bid from one of the cash buyers (it was about 2% less than the others but he had cash) and the deal fell through before closing. We went to the other cash buyer and he had moved on and bought something else. We then went to the other two buyers. One had moved on and the other made an offer, but couldn't get financed. So after about 30 days of dealing with all this we were back and square one again.

So we ended up going with an agent. We cranked the price up about 12% and ended up getting an offer that was about 6% higher than our original offer from the cash buyer and these people already had financing in place. We had to pay a commission, but it was worth it not to deal with all the buyers.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by rowan

In my area the typical commission seems to be about 2.5%. If a property is listed at $500k but the agent talks the vendor down to an offer of $450k, the vendor is out $50k but the agent is only down $1.25k... they still get $11,250 for their "trouble"

I'd say there would be more incentive to short sell a property with a slightly lower net commission, and QUICKLY, so they can get their cut and move onto the next vict...err... client.

LOL I need to keep my mouth shut out of respect of self-preservation.

What I will say is that lawyers are the most hated professionals and real estate agents come in second.

What I will do is repeat what others have said and that is don't drag it out too much. People get impatient real quick and they're likely still looking at other properties. Then, when you do sign the contract, nurse that baby all the way to the table. I couldn't even count how many times I had to carry the ball to the end because nobody else was interested in doing it.

[After Shock Media]

Love to know where you got the list of most hated professions. I would rank real estate agents much lower than say car salesmen, repo companies, collection agents, service processors, and well a few others.

[rowan]

It definitely won't be dragging on, I now have 4 written offers with a fifth one expected tomorrow, by default they lapse within 3 clear business days. I'll be making a decision within 48 hours.

(In my area an "offer" is actually a contract, not just a verbal figure, so if the vendor signs it the whole thing becomes legally binding...)

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by rowan

It definitely won't be dragging on, I now have 4 written offers with a fifth one expected tomorrow, by default they lapse within 3 clear business days. I'll be making a decision within 48 hours.

(In my area an "offer" is actually a contract, not just a verbal figure, so if the vendor signs it the whole thing becomes legally binding...)

Thats odd.
You saying once it is signed they have to buy? No contingencies, no inspections coming back, no not being able to get financing (means all buyers would have to be pre qualified by banks).

[rowan]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Thats odd.
You saying once it is signed they have to buy? No contingencies, no inspections coming back, no not being able to get financing (means all buyers would have to be pre qualified by banks).

It's a standard contract but there's a special conditions section where they can add custom clauses such as "subject to finance"

About half of the interested parties are paying cash so the contract becomes unconditional from the moment the purchaser and vendor both sign.

[slapass]

I just noticed the australia thing. I was wondering how you were advertising?

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by rowan

It's a standard contract but there's a special conditions section where they can add custom clauses such as "subject to finance"

About half of the interested parties are paying cash so the contract becomes unconditional from the moment the purchaser and vendor both sign.

So can I take it you already had full inspections ready for them or did they all get their own set of them?
I have seen so much shit fall apart once the inspections start. Sure at first its nothing and you offer them some credits, then some electrical guy or general contractor will disclose something like, well the whole house needs new wiring, or the back addition was done without permits so they would need to be rebuilt.

[beemk]

you cant get your home on the MLS without a real estate license here. thats all the realtor is good for. i got my realtor license just because realtors are useless and i wanted to be able to do things myself and not pay commission.

[MrMaxwell]

Listen.. if some jackoff is going to pay CASH without asking too many questions and poking around like he's fingering the place.. and it's not substantially lower..... cash is king, you take the cash over some white tie wearing sexually frustrated needle in the ass idiot offers 20k more and picks the place apart like a catholic school marm with white gloves looking for dust in the asscrack of the den and wastes all your fucking time while the market cools off

[Jensen]

is the bidding log public or?

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by pr0

I market myself as the nicest guy on earth to 18-22 year old girls. I meet with their parents on occassion too. Like the preachers daughter (southern baptist) last week. But then i fuck them (usually raw dog) about 2 dozen times & leave them with a sore asshole. Then i get a brand new pre-paid phone. Oh & my address.....well i take them in a back way every time & make about 7 unnecessary turns.

What, no blindfold? Dude... did I teach you nothing?

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by beemk

you cant get your home on the MLS without a real estate license here. thats all the realtor is good for. i got my realtor license just because realtors are useless and i wanted to be able to do things myself and not pay commission.

i'm in the process of getting my broker's license exactly for this purpose.

[pornguy]

Its never fun but in the long run well worth the time.

[czarina]

I sold a property by owner back in 2001, and it was a walk in the park. I dont know why people bother with real estate agents

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by czarina

I sold a property by owner back in 2001, and it was a walk in the park. I dont know why people bother with real estate agents

I don't either.. For less, usually alot less, you could have an attorney do the work.
A good realtor is a good marketer.. 90% of them simply aren't worth anything.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by candyflip

i'm in the process of getting my broker's license exactly for this purpose.

Don't you need two years as a realtor in most states before you can have a brokers license?
What did you do, have some broker hold your license inactive for a couple years?
I THINK I have heard of that...
Slick, if it works!!

[sandman!]

In IL all you have to do is take a class and pass some tests to become a broker.

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Don't you need two years as a realtor in most states before you can have a brokers license?
What did you do, have some broker hold your license inactive for a couple years?
I THINK I have heard of that...
Slick, if it works!!

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by sandman!

In IL all you have to do is take a class and pass some tests to become a broker.

You're sure you're not thinking of someone becoming an agent??

[sandman!]

Nope im already am an agent and plan on taking the brokers class when i find some spare time.

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

You're sure you're not thinking of someone becoming an agent??

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by sandman!

Nope im already am an agent and plan on taking the brokers class when i find some spare time.

WoW that's scary shit.. someone can just play around in some classes, take a test and BLAM .. they're a broker?!

I guess now I know why all of the agents are so clueless .. fuckin' wow

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by czarina

I sold a property by owner back in 2001, and it was a walk in the park. I dont know why people bother with real estate agents

Because statistically the sellers not only sell faster they typically make 15% more money.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

So can I take it you already had full inspections ready for them or did they all get their own set of them?

It's vacant land.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by slapass

I just noticed the australia thing. I was wondering how you were advertising?

Private sale listing on buy/\my/\place dot com.au (which includes a for sale board)... haven't really been too impressed with them as the board (and the pamphlet they supplied) is really just generic advertising for their own site. The board doesn't even have my contact details on it! Having said that it has still generated some leads and offers.

I also did a pamphlet drop in the local area - designed them myself rather than using the canned BMP template with more advertising for their site. Of around 230 pamphlets delivered I've had 3 enquiries and all have made an offer. So that was definitely worth it too.

[sandman!]

last i checked less then half the people taking the tests pass the first time.

i know quite a few people that have failed the tests and just gave up.

the tests are long and hard.

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

WoW that's scary shit.. someone can just play around in some classes, take a test and BLAM .. they're a broker?!

I guess now I know why all of the agents are so clueless .. fuckin' wow

[sandman!]

you got a link for these statistics ?

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Because statistically the sellers not only sell faster they typically make 15% more money.

[MrMaxwell]

That's a riot.
People go through the classes.
Go in to take the test.
Uhhhh I can't passss..... hmmm....
And walk away

LOL OVER HERE THAT'S CLASSIC

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Because statistically the sellers not only sell faster they typically make 15% more money.

I've heard that, too.. I wonder how difficult it is to nail that down to your area. Like this do realtors generally get 5% more in this area .. or 20% more .. what ... 15 and 20 are difficult for me to believe.. one advantage to using a realtor, if you have a good one, they'll sell it quicker and you won't pay so much in holding costs.

I just can't believe how many realtors take overpriced listings and spend a year trying to sell a house. Yeah, I know they NEED listings and a listing is GREAT when you get one, right, but if you're taking ones that won't sell anyway ... your track record looks like shit due to those listings that you knew wouldn't sell in the first place
THEN what happens, the idiot who had his 200k house priced 250k tells the jones, the shitbombs, and the dickprinces about how badly you suck as a realtor. Your area you're supposed to be harvesting goes flat BLAM.

[rowan]

Real estate sales are public record here ($, street name, land size, land use) so I can match up most of the blocks and come up with an average price per square metre. The contracts we've just signed are around 4% higher than this average figure, and around 15% higher than a professional valuation done last year.

The costs to discharge our mortgage are pretty much static so every $ above the average price (or even above the break even figure) is bonus profit.

Here's how the 9 leads break down...

- 1 ran into me and I mentioned I was selling
- 2 saw the for sale sign (1 signed an offer)
- 4 enquired after a pamphlet drop of ~230 houses in the local area (3 signed an offer)
- 2 didn't continue past the first enquiry and didn't specify how they got my details

I'm surprised by the response from the pamphlet drop, next time I sell property I'll be doing more than 230 houses...

[beemk]

you guys are crazy to think that realtors dont do much work and make money. 90% of the time a realtor has some tire kicker wanting to see houses and wastes their time. i have friends i even turned away being their real estate agent because its just not worth it.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by sandman!

you got a link for these statistics ?

Im sure I can dig one up when I get back from my appointment. I get board and watch a lot of those stupid flip and real estate shows and they show stats all the time at the bottom of the screen.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

I've heard that, too.. I wonder how difficult it is to nail that down to your area. Like this do realtors generally get 5% more in this area .. or 20% more .. what ... 15 and 20 are difficult for me to believe.. one advantage to using a realtor, if you have a good one, they'll sell it quicker and you won't pay so much in holding costs.

Holding costs end up out of your pocket so it should count in how much more you make. Then as you said elsewhere they often will let you know if you are way overpriced versus comps, and a good agent will even show you those comps in person to let you know they are not pulling your leg. I have seen some people selling houses with close to a 30k difference and there was an exact same house, floor plan and all about 5 streets away for 30k less. Also no real difference in quality of location, same schools, etc.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Holding costs end up out of your pocket so it should count in how much more you make. Then as you said elsewhere they often will let you know if you are way overpriced versus comps, and a good agent will even show you those comps in person to let you know they are not pulling your leg. I have seen some people selling houses with close to a 30k difference and there was an exact same house, floor plan and all about 5 streets away for 30k less. Also no real difference in quality of location, same schools, etc.

I don't even think that the realtors understand that you've got to do a comparative analysis based on FRESH COMPS. A few years ago 6 month dated or even 12 month dated comps were pretty reliable. Now you have to go by something 1-3 months or better.

People want to look at what everything is listed for. Well, bad news, half of that shit has been listed for that price for months and been sitting there... .. Sigh
Geniuses

[rowan]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

I don't even think that the realtors understand that you've got to do a comparative analysis based on FRESH COMPS. A few years ago 6 month dated or even 12 month dated comps were pretty reliable. Now you have to go by something 1-3 months or better.

People want to look at what everything is listed for. Well, bad news, half of that shit has been listed for that price for months and been sitting there... .. Sigh
Geniuses

That's why I based my starting price on recent sales, rather than what people were currently asking. If I'd just pulled a figure out of my ass - what I WANTED - then the property would probably still be sitting there unsold in a month.