Net porn sales - will things get better

[DVTimes]

Tube sites mean free porn.

Do you think sales will improve or just get worse.

I see many sites up for sale or closing.

Is it realy the end now?

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by allanuk

Tube sites mean free porn.

TGPs meant free porn. Why didn't they have a similar effect on photo members areas from several years ago? Nobody seems to have answer for this.

Could it be that maybe tube sites aren't really the problem?

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

TGPs meant free porn. Why didn't they have a similar effect on photo members areas from several years ago?

this shows the total lack of understanding with the tgp guys...

do you understand that tgp's are 180 degrees different than tubes that offer full VIDEO scenes?

apparently not...

[Dennis69]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

TGPs meant free porn. Why didn't they have a similar effect on photo members areas from several years ago? Nobody seems to have answer for this.

Could it be that maybe tube sites aren't really the problem?

Sure tgp's still meant free porn but surfers still had to jump through hoops to get it and the majority of it was still LQ pics and short crappy movies... tubes are full movies and no hoops to jump through!

[goldfish]

Is it over? No, but we could timeshift back to at least 2003 if we could get rid of torrent sites and tubes. I think.

[DVTimes]

Yes

Tubes offer full content. Even full porn DVD's.

My mate used to buy 10 or so porn dvd's each month, now he says he just uses a few tube sites.

TGPs gave you a tast. Plus they did not have the traffick some of the BIG tube sites get.

Would you join asite these days when you can see thesites full content free on a tube site?

[DVTimes]

I can only see things getting worse.

Just look at all the sites being sold.

People seem to now want to get out of the bizz.

[Arnox]

You guys need to learn to adapt. I've reviews LOTS of sites in my time and seen some really good ideas to get members.

Picture/Video archives aren't that amazing, get unique and develop something that makes you better than a tube site.

[nextri]

Sales are better than ever for us.

[degban]

Originally Posted by allanuk

Tube sites mean free porn.

Do you think sales will improve or just get worse.

I see many sites up for sale or closing.

Is it realy the end now?

Well it doesn't have to be the end if you take action! I don't mean those law suites! Find your self a good protection company and they will do the job for you there is a bunch of companies like ours out there doing this for a living!

[degban]

Originally Posted by allanuk

Yes

Tubes offer full content. Even full porn DVD's.

My mate used to buy 10 or so porn dvd's each month, now he says he just uses a few tube sites.

TGPs gave you a tast. Plus they did not have the traffick some of the BIG tube sites get.

Would you join asite these days when you can see thesites full content free on a tube site?

It is not just the tubes! Do you guys know anything about free file hosting websites? they are at the moment the main source of free porn as you don't need any sort of skill to use them not even installing a torrent client or a good connection to watch streaming video!

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by Arnox

You guys need to learn to adapt. I've reviews LOTS of sites in my time and seen some really good ideas to get members.

Picture/Video archives aren't that amazing, get unique and develop something that makes you better than a tube site.

See that's what I'm working on, but finding producers that are willing to adapt to something new, other than just your vanilla porn shoot is difficult, not everyone is willing to adapt, yet.

[lagcam]

Whatever your business, if you just keep doing the same thing over and over and never enhance or develop it your sales will of course decline over time.

[Dennis69]

Originally Posted by allanuk

Yes

Tubes offer full content. Even full porn DVD's.

My mate used to buy 10 or so porn dvd's each month, now he says he just uses a few tube sites.

TGPs gave you a tast. Plus they did not have the traffick some of the BIG tube sites get.

Would you join asite these days when you can see thesites full content free on a tube site?

All my friends that know what I do ask me how I'm still making a living doing this... they all say that don't need to join a site anymore because they can find it all for free... now think about how many of your friends are saying the same thing!

[Dirty Dane]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

this shows the total lack of understanding with the tgp guys...

do you understand that tgp's are 180 degrees different than tubes that offer full VIDEO scenes?

apparently not...

Well, opposite, you can't put photos on tubes

[chronig]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

TGPs meant free porn. Why didn't they have a similar effect on photo members areas from several years ago? Nobody seems to have answer for this.

Could it be that maybe tube sites aren't really the problem?

Selling porn probably would have been awesome with no TGPs or tubes

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by Dennis69

All my friends that know what I do ask me how I'm still making a living doing this... they all say that don't need to join a site anymore because they can find it all for free... now think about how many of your friends are saying the same thing!

So the next logical question should be how do we put them out of business, legally?

[degban]

Originally Posted by goldfish

So the next logical question should be how do we put them out of business, legally?

It is easy just make the business impossible for them. You have to chase them to the point they give up on your specific content!

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by degban

It is easy just make the business impossible for them. You have to chase them to the point they give up on your specific content!

I was speaking as the industry as a whole. Not just individual companies. Individual companies should already be doing that.

The shear number new site popping up everyday is overwhelming, no one company can keep up. When one gets shut down 5 more open up, so as an industry how do we protect our trade?

Working together as a whole, something like ASACP has done might benefit us more than each individual companies trying to fight thousands of illegal sites, one by one. Go after them as a whole. Does that make sense?

[Dennis69]

Originally Posted by goldfish

So the next logical question should be how do we put them out of business, legally?

The quickest way is sponsors and webmasters... if they had nobody to sell traffic to and no sponsors to promote then whats the good of all that traffic! But that will never happen in this industry!

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Well, opposite, you can't put photos on tubes

semantics... i did say 180 degrees, which doe imply in the opposite direction..

anyway,, if the majority of people wanted to see pics, then tgp's would be crushing the tubes in rankings which is def not the case...

[degban]

Originally Posted by goldfish

I was speaking as the industry as a whole. Not just individual companies. Individual companies should already be doing that.

The shear number new site popping up everyday is overwhelming, no one company can keep up. When one gets shut down 5 more open up, so as an industry how do we protect our trade?

Working together as a whole, something like ASACP has done might benefit us more than each individual companies trying to fight thousands of illegal sites, one by one. Go after them as a whole. Does that make sense?

That is true, but unless all the companies start caring and fight in individual level first they cant really protect the business. Let me put it this way unless the pirates( including tube sites) are afraid that there is bad consequences awaiting them or that they have lsot audience they will not stop! so the goal should be finding methods to make it hard to for them to pirate things which as you pointed out correctly it needs a group effort.

[Dirty Dane]

Originally Posted by goldfish

Working together as a whole, something like ASACP has done might benefit us more than each individual companies trying to fight thousands of illegal sites, one by one. Go after them as a whole. Does that make sense?

"As a hole"... hm yeah, it makes sense, assuming "best practice" also actually is put into practice.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by chronig

Selling porn probably would have been awesome with no TGPs or tubes

And where would we advertise? How would people find the paysites?

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by degban

That is true, but unless all the companies start caring and fight in individual level first they cant really protect the business. Let me put it this way unless the pirates( including tube sites) are afraid that there is bad consequences awaiting them or that they have lsot audience they will not stop! so the goal should be finding methods to make it hard to for them to pirate things which as you pointed out correctly it needs a group effort.

A good attorney and a federal class action digital copyright infringement threat would scare most of them out of biz. Granted following through with the suit couple times may be necessary but in the end the expense would be worth it fir everyone in the industry.

Just a thought.

[Dirty Dane]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

anyway,, if the majority of people wanted to see pics, then tgp's would be crushing the tubes in rankings which is def not the case...

Yes, no doubt about that. But there will always be a market for hi-res photos, especially the more soft-erotic/artistic ones. So if everyone convert into tubes, the ones left will gain.

[chronig]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

And where would we advertise? How would people find the paysites?

Is that a serious question?

[bronco67]

What about flooding torrents and Rapidshare type sites with blank or annoyingly watermarked video files? Wouldn't it be a deterrent to download if the thief knew there was a chance he would be getting something unwatchable?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Could it be that maybe tube sites aren't really the problem?

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner folks.

[seeandsee]

sales will go to hell

[billywatson]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner folks.

Un huh. Tube Sites aren't the problem. Not at all.

You're a winner dude. A real winner.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by billywatson

Un huh. Tube Sites aren't the problem. Not at all.

You're a winner dude. A real winner.

Yep clueless shithead noob. That is what I said.

I am sure in all your wisdom the problem of today could not be long term problems of customers being ripped off on 50 scene pay sites, nor their cards being banged in, or pre-checked cross sales they did not ask for, or clip stores, or having hard time canceling memberships, or content that is not tailored to their specialized demands, or pay sites that never update, or update once a week/month for $29.95. Nope. Couldn't be taking advantage of customers for 10+ years that has changed people's mentalities. Not to mention the past 18+ months, and the economy and credit crunch.

Must be the tubes are the problem for EVERYTHING in adult going bad.

You crack me up bitch ass trick.

[LoveSandra]

Originally Posted by nextri

Sales are better than ever for us.

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Yep clueless shithead noob. That is what I said.

I am sure in all your wisdom the problem of today could not be long term problems of customers being ripped off on 50 scene pay sites, nor their cards being banged in, or pre-checked cross sales they did not ask for, or clip stores, or having hard time canceling memberships, or content that is not tailored to their specialized demands, or pay sites that never update, or update once a week/month for $29.95. Nope. Couldn't be taking advantage of customers for 10+ years that has changed people's mentalities. Not to mention the past 18+ months, and the economy and credit crunch.

These are definitely things we did to screw ourselves, but I don't see how we can go back and fix those other than running clean programs and sites now. But torrents and tubes we can fix that.

I just did a search on a major torrent site for naughty america, on the first page 11 out of 15 results were stolen content!

That can't be helping us at all!

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by goldfish

These are definitely things we did to screw ourselves

Agreed.

I am not saying the tubes do not have a role to play. However, they are the END RESULT in a much bigger issue that has been going on for a decade. Instead of blaming the end game, how about looking at the bigger source of the problem.

That's the point.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by chronig

Is that a serious question?

Of course! Do you think if all tgps and tubes dissapear, review sites will have millions visitors daily? If you don't offer free content as promo, noone would join paysites either, because there wouldn't be enough sites with traffic to promote them. Free content was the best invention in adult, tubes are good, too, the only problem with them is that they offer full movies. Tubes with short movies are just as good as tgps. And its only a matter of time until all tubes have shorter clips.

[Fabien]

Originally Posted by goldfish

Is it over? No, but we could timeshift back to at least 2003 if we could get rid of torrent sites and tubes. I think.

DAMN RIGHT !

No ones buy music anymore. They download them as MP3 even tho they don't sound as good as the real thing why ? BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING FREE !
They are doing the same thing with porn. Bahhhhhh it's not really what he wanted to see or felt like but hey, it's free and he gets it RIGHT AWAY
It takes 2 secs for the guy to watch a full lenght porn movie. Do you really think this guy will buy something ?

We are teaching them to not buy anymore. As it's happening in the musical industry.


As for TGP's jesus christ get real here ! It was just small shitty samples and you even had to dig to find what you were looking for.

Reasons:
Tubes
Torrent
Cross sells and shitty behavior
Money crisis
Banks/Cards scrubbing

Add everything up and no wonder i get 1:70k on a fucking sponsor.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I am sure in all your wisdom the problem of today could not be long term problems of customers being ripped off on 50 scene pay sites, nor their cards being banged in, or pre-checked cross sales they did not ask for, or clip stores, or having hard time canceling memberships, or content that is not tailored to their specialized demands, or pay sites that never update, or update once a week/month for $29.95

What you describe is whats happening in mainstream from day one, too. And even worse, mainstream is using much better hidden xsales and for a longer period of time. Every company in the world thinks just about profit, customer is only important until he pays, then they go for the next one. Its like complaining about day and night, it won't change, you can only use it for your own profits.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Fabien

No ones buy music anymore.

They don't? So all the millions of sold copies is buying who? The companies themselfs?

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Fabien

Add everything up and no wonder i get 1:70k on a fucking sponsor.

1:70k is your issue, not the sponsor's, today you can't just make a link with "paysite name - click here" and expect people to go crazy about it. Today you need marketing to sell paysites, it seems most people can't do it, so that makes people leaving faster than ever.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

What you describe is whats happening in mainstream from day one, too.

Every company in the world thinks just about profit, customer is only important until he pays, then they go for the next one. Its like complaining about day and night, it won't change, you can only use it for your own profits.

Agreed on both points chum.

Bravo.

[Jensen]

even my wife is surfing tubes.. thank god for microniches

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

They don't? So all the millions of sold copies is buying who? The companies themselfs?

No but those straight edge ppl that won't steal music probably won't buy porn either for various reason, to young, no credit card, etc..

I think the moral of the story in this thread is we are working in a declining industry, how do we take advantage of what we have left, with out pissing ppl off, like we have in the past, so we don't lose sooner rather than later.

Is main stream a declining industry? I would say yes for the same reasons for the most part

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

1:70k is your issue, not the sponsor's, today you can't just make a link with "paysite name - click here" and expect people to go crazy about it. Today you need marketing to sell paysites, it seems most people can't do it, so that makes people leaving faster than ever.

Agreed.

From what I read on the boards, and my conversations with many, few know how to actually SELL anything. If you do not know how to market and sell something to conversion and show value, that is not the sponsor's problem. It's yours.

Saying, "Here's some free shit, like? Sign up here.", is not a solid converting sales pitch. You have not earned that customers sale, and they are letting you know that with bad ratios. Throwing shit traffic and shit promo pages is not going to get you sales.

Most whales I know of MAKE their own promo tools, and pages from the content. They do not rely on FHG, or standard freebies from the sponsors. They know how to convert it themselves, and invest their time and efforts doing it right.

You have to sell them BEFORE they bust a nut.

[Matyko]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

They don't? So all the millions of sold copies is buying who? The companies themselfs?

For example I buy music [yes, everything I do like, for real]. If anyone is asking 'who is buying music nowadays' is saying: I steal all the music I like and don't give a shit about its illegal. Why are you surpsrised your surfers think the same way?

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

1:70k is your issue, not the sponsor's, today you can't just make a link with "paysite name - click here" and expect people to go crazy about it. Today you need marketing to sell paysites, it seems most people can't do it, so that makes people leaving faster than ever.

Quoted for truth. I am still doing well selling premium paysite memberships, but without proper testing of marketing texts, placements and fine tuning the gallery itself it would probably be the same 1:70k. If you are using FHGs with 4x4 thumbs and an 'enter here' @ bottom, you will soon close shop.

[goldfish]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Agreed.

From what I read on the boards, and my conversations with many, few know how to actually SELL anything. If you do not know how to market and sell something to conversion and show value, that is not the sponsor's problem. It's yours.

Saying, "Here's some free shit, like? Sign up here.", is not a solid converting sales pitch. You have not earned that customers sale, and they are letting you know that with bad ratios. Throwing shit traffic and shit promo pages is not going to get you sales.

Most whales I know of MAKE their own promo tools, and pages from the content. They do not rely on FHG, or standard freebies from the sponsors. They know how to convert it themselves, and invest their time and efforts doing it right.

I don't disagree at all, but, after that sale is made why would a customer stay if they can write down a few title names, go to a torrent or tube site download them, then cancel or chargeback? I wouldn't.

We have created a lot of problems for ourselves over the yrs and they are all leading to our industries demise but torrent and tubes we can actually work to remedy. Short of a mind eraser there isn't much we can do about the other things, except clean our act up.

1:70k, holy shit! That is no way an issue created by torrents, tubes, the sponsor or anything else but traffic, you can't just through shit at the window and hope it sticks anymore!

[Dennis69]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner folks.

NAAA 60k hours of free porn movies on just one site isn't a problem! Sure you might be getting some sign ups but it's like throwing 100k of surfers at a wall and hoping one will stick!!!! That sounds like a great business plan to me!

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by goldfish

I don't disagree at all, but, after that sale is made why would a customer stay if they can write down a few title names, go to a torrent or tube site download them, then cancel or chargeback? I wouldn't.

You apparently have never run a pay site from your comments.

I do not mean that to slam you by any means, but I am simply saying that a good chunk, not all, members enjoy paying for something that is a VALUE to them. Just like they support their local restaurants, causes, or favorite hang outs. I, and many of my members, do not mind paying for something that is a value to us, and fulfills a need. Especially the more convenience it is the better.

I do not use torrents, and the rest of that shit. Never have. Why? Because they appear to be too much of a hassle for me when I can just pay the $.099 for the song and be done with it from a simply interface. Piece of mind knowing that it is legal, and will work with my iPod, and that it is backed up. All of that is a VALUE to me.

I will give you another example. I hear this one all the time from webmasters.

Why would ANYONE pay for a celebrity site when the content is available for FREE all over the web? Most adult/celebrity pay sites have the exact same content as the next, and the content they are just pulling from the web.

The answer. Convenience.

One site, one price, updating daily, in one place without the pop ups, spyware, adware, and the rest. They do not HAVE TO go through endless searches trying to find some picture that hits the spot. They do not need to SPEND THE TIME trying to track down what they want. It is already there. If they want something in particular, they email the webmaster and then THEY go track it down.

Again, this is a VALUE to people they are willing to pay for.

People are busy. Online and off. They are lazy and apathetic and will pay for a convenience. The vast majority of customers do not think like webmasters. The over 18 crowd with a few bucks to their name are not going to spend 1-2 hours tracking down shit for free. It is easier to just pay for it.

Not all customers are the same, nor think the same. There are some, who are never ever going to pay for anything and think everything should be free. They take pride in not paying, and are typically the same shitheads you are DMCA'g as they post your shit on tubes and forums. They are never going to pay, just like some will never vote. Stop wasting your time and energy on them.

You need to focus on the actual BUYING customers out there. You need to provide a VALUE and a CONVENIENCE to them. If the customers are preferring tubes as their delivery method because it is convenient, then your pay sites should be TUBE pay sites. You should be using the technology and preferred delivery method to your advantage. Not fighting it. In the end, you will never win.

The "good ole days" are gone. Get over it.

[Barefootsies]

Gotta love ignorance.

Originally Posted by Dennis69

NAAA 60k hours of free porn movies on just one site isn't a problem! Sure you might be getting some sign ups but it's like throwing 100k of surfers at a wall and hoping one will stick!!!! That sounds like a great business plan to me!

Yep. Couldn't be any thing else I mentioned at all in my O.P. reply that effects customers (no updates, banging cards, scams, etc.). Must be the tubes that are the root of all evil. I am sure those business practices of the past decade, and current economy crisis of past two years play absolutely no part at all in the current climate of business. Online or off.

Ignorance is bliss apparently.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by goldfish

No but those straight edge ppl that won't steal music probably won't buy porn either for various reason, to young, no credit card, etc..

I think the moral of the story in this thread is we are working in a declining industry, how do we take advantage of what we have left, with out pissing ppl off, like we have in the past, so we don't lose sooner rather than later.

Is main stream a declining industry? I would say yes for the same reasons for the most part

I somewhere read that most of the people who buy music are downloading some for free, too. They probably just check what they like and then buy it when they like it. And the ones who don't buy wouldn't buy no matter what, they would still record the music from radio, that can be considered stealing, too, but noone used to complain about it in the past or blamed anything on it.