Biz Thread: Attracting and Keeping Good, Hardworking, LOYAL Employees!

[kush]

I'd like to hear from some of the other people that have managed/hired employees, particularly those who have in-house people to do grunt-type work.

I've learned a lot over the years. I've learned that a little bit of recognition can go a long way to keeping people happy. Feedback is important. I think as a boss it is sometimes important to admit when you are wrong, but also to keep the boss image that you're the boss, what you say goes. Sometimes when I pass an assignment onto people, I like to encourage them to speak up if they see a better way of doing something. Who better to come up with better efficiencies than those doing the work?

One of my biggest worries is an employee taking the knowledge that I've given them, and going behind my back and running affiliate promotions on their own, using my methods and techniques. Or what happens if they quit or get fired, and they start doing the type of work I'm doing? This happened once and pissed me off. How do you prevent that? You don't want ex-employees becoming your competitors further down the line. There has to be such a thing as a non-competitive legal agreement. Any standards on this issue?

How do you keep people happy and loyal and working? What incentives do you give? How often do you give raises, and by how much? What about bonuses? At which point do you offer benefits? I learned one year that by giving a Christmas bonus, it was sort of expected the next year, and I don't like it when people expect something extra.

Let's open this for discussion...

[BVF]

Do this...

[BV]

Originally Posted by kush

One of my biggest worries is an employee taking the knowledge that I've given them, and going behind my back and running affiliate promotions on their own, using my methods and techniques. Or what happens if they quit or get fired, and they start doing the type of work I'm doing? This happened once and pissed me off. How do you prevent that? You don't want ex-employees becoming your competitors further down the line. There has to be such a thing as a non-competitive legal agreement. Any standards on this issue?

Let's open this for discussion...

The only way to stop this is to pay them so much and treat them so well it is not profitable or either too much of a risk for them to go out and try and duplicate it on their own. Then even some people (usually the the ones with the most drive) don't care if they will make less at first.

It is instilled in their being to be an entrepreneur themselves.

I think the only way to lower the chances of this happening is to learn not to hire employees with these characteristics. However these types of people are the ones that get hired first. So it is tough.

I know I was one of those people in my 20's - 30's. I was never happy working for someone else. I changed jobs like i changed my socks. Always going up a level each time. I was never satisfied until I started my own business. Then I had to have 2, then 3 businesses to be happy.

[SmokeyTheBear]

1 word - blackmail

[ShellyCrash]

You should always have a non-compete / non disclosure in place with any employees that have access to trade secrets and the like. That said, you can't rely on fear of legal action to keep your people loyal. Well, you can, fear is a powerful motivator, but if you in an environment of fear you breed resentment.

I've found if you treat your employees right, you will rarely have anything to worry about. It's hard to cook everything down into one post but I guess in a nutshell be accessable, dont treat your people like mushrooms (feeding them shit and keeping them in the dark), keep them in the know about major happenings in business and company performance, they need to feel emotionally invested in your company's success. Quantify everything, give recognition for outstanding effort and provide rewards based on performance. Don't just give a christmas bonus, base the bonus on how the company has performed thoughout the year. Your employees should feel that they are valued members of a team working towards a common goal.

[kush]

Originally Posted by BV

The only way to stop this is to pay them so much and treat them so well it is not profitable or either too much of a risk for them to go out and try and duplicate it on their own. Then even some people (usually the the ones with the most drive) don't care if they will make less at first.

It is instilled in their being to be an entrepreneur themselves.

I think the only way to lower the chances of this happening is to learn not to hire employees with these characteristics. However these types of people are the ones that get hired first. So it is tough.

I know I was one of those people in my 20's - 30's. I was never happy working for someone else. I changed jobs like i changed my socks. Always going up a level each time. I was never satisfied until I started my own business. Then I had to have 2, then 3 businesses to be happy.

I heard a story of a guy who owned a pharmaceuticals company, who later sold out to another bigger company. The buying company made him sign a non-competitive agreement that he wouldn't start another pharma business for 10 years... and he didn't. But right after year 10 he turned right back around and made another successful business!

I feel like if I have them sign something reasonable like not using my techniques/methods for something like 5 years after their employment with me ends, then I'm at least minimizing the risk. Besides treating them well of course...

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

You should always have a non-compete / non disclosure in place with any employees that have access to trade secrets and the like. That said, you can't rely on fear of legal action to keep your people loyal. Well, you can, fear is a powerful motivator, but if you in an environment of fear you breed resentment.

I've found if you treat your employees right, you will rarely have anything to worry about. It's hard to cook everything down into one post but I guess in a nutshell be accessable, dont treat your people like mushrooms (feeding them shit and keeping them in the dark), keep them in the know about major happenings in business and company performance, they need to feel emotionally invested in your company's success. Quantify everything, give recognition for outstanding effort and provide rewards based on performance. Don't just give a christmas bonus, base the bonus on how the company has performed thoughout the year. Your employees should feel that they are valued members of a team working towards a common goal.

Now that makes a lot of sense

[Paul Markham]

Non competitive contracts are a nightmare and you need a very skilled lawyer to draw one up and still if this removes his ability to make a living you still can have a problem. What you can do is draw up a contract listing the people they can't do business with when they leave your company.

The answer to your question is read some books on managing employees and learn fast. I find a mixture of love, fear and respect works.

[BV]

Originally Posted by kush

I heard a story of a guy who owned a pharmaceuticals company, who later sold out to another bigger company. The buying company made him sign a non-competitive agreement that he wouldn't start another pharma business for 10 years... and he didn't. But right after year 10 he turned right back around and made another successful business!

I feel like if I have them sign something reasonable like not using my techniques/methods for something like 5 years after their employment with me ends, then I'm at least minimizing the risk. Besides treating them well of course...

Well a non compete only protects you from him not starting a like business. It doesn't stop you from losing your employee to go do something different. So you lose all that you have invested in him or her.

It also takes money to enforce a NC.

Not to mention that a lot of people won't sign one to begin with. (usually the smarter ones)

So non competes are not the answer to the problem IMO.

IMO there is no real answer. Some things are just the way they are. This has always been a problem, and always will be a problem.

[Sly]

A judge is not going to tell a skilled person that they cannot use their skills to put food on their table.

[Bman]

The general population has very little incentive of starting their own similar business as their employer.

I would not be very worried about it...however for loyalty I would offer profit sharing that is very easy to calculate.

[baddog]

Full medical and dental helps.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

You should always have a non-compete / non disclosure in place with any employees that have access to trade secrets and the like. That said, you can't rely on fear of legal action to keep your people loyal. Well, you can, fear is a powerful motivator, but if you in an environment of fear you breed resentment.

I've found if you treat your employees right, you will rarely have anything to worry about. It's hard to cook everything down into one post but I guess in a nutshell be accessable, dont treat your people like mushrooms (feeding them shit and keeping them in the dark), keep them in the know about major happenings in business and company performance, they need to feel emotionally invested in your company's success. Quantify everything, give recognition for outstanding effort and provide rewards based on performance. Don't just give a christmas bonus, base the bonus on how the company has performed thoughout the year. Your employees should feel that they are valued members of a team working towards a common goal.

Well said.

I have tried many many different ways over the years to keep people happy. This goes for assistants, and models. Money will not motivate everyone. So paying top pay is not the answer.

I have found the dangling carrot works better, and they start low and get raises as their skill level goes up. So let's say they start at minimum. But I have budgeted $15. So by the time they learn how to run celebrity sites, cut video, so SEO blogs and many other tasks. They get a $1 pay raise for each new skill set over time. This has worked best for me in keeping them motivated.

I used to pay models more money. They did not work any better then, versus now for 1/3 of the pay. I actually think some of the were worse in many different ways. It simply comes down to your interviewing and filtering process. Some people simply do want to work, and others do not. It is that simple.

The non-compete is essential. Female employees, not so much. They seem to be happy enough just having work, and most that have worked for me were never motivated enough to do something on their own. Any male however is always thinking of a way to fuck you. Whether it is trying to slide in their affiliate codes, take all your secrets and work on the side, or any number of other things. Especially those in their 20's.

They tend to be short term thinkers, and always thinking of tomorrow instead of concentrating on today. Meaning, that they do their work half assed while spending endless amount of time thinking of their own schemes. That has been my experience with hiring people over the years.

You have to find a way to work in some sort of progressive to keep them motivated. Even on the cleaning ladies, and handymen I have had since buying my house. They all start out great and to impress you. But after a short period of time, they all get lazy. So either you have to keep them motivated, in fear, or plan to constantly be hiring new.

Good luck. You'll need it.

[Icy]

I think there are three kind of workers:

A) Those who prefer to work for somebody and to get a fixed salary without having to worry about anything once their daily work is done and they head back home.

The problem is that most of those workers are also the ones who won't work a minute extra and will leave work every day at the exact time, also will have little initiative on their own. Good for grunt work, usually won't switch jobs as they want security, good for big corporations where initiative or extra time work is not a big need. A fixed salary and schedule works well for for them, and you need to give them enough work and instructions to keep them busy enough and not having to think a lot on themselves.

B) Those who are more brilliant, more enthusiastic about their job, about starting new projects, that give it all and don't look at the clock if they need to finish something today.

Those are great for our adult online business, where you need to do new and innovative things all the time and need to be done quick. The problem is that they are usually so smart and ambitious, so they might want to work for themselves once they learn enough. They usually work better on a fixed salary + incentives based on their performance, so they will see that their extra work hours and initiatives get a recompense. They are usually a bit more undisciplined and you probably need to give them more freedom about work schedules, etc as they tend to start a revolution when you are too rigid on the rules.

C) The guys in between, probably the harder to manage as they tend to move to type A) or B) depending on the boss, job, etc so you need to study them well and mix things enough to keep them happy depending on to which type A or B they are moving at a given time.

All those kind of workers are good to have in the appropriate mix. The key for you as boss is to find that perfect mix, to assign them the appropriate tasks and responsibilities, to adjust salaries and/or incentives, rules at work, and to keep them happy enough to not to want to leave you, and in fact to make them proud and an important part of their company and projects they work for.

Another key is to show them that being a boss is not just about making more money than your workers while they do all the job. They need to underestand the costs of running a company (you will be surprised of how many workers think that gross sales = net profit) and the headaches a boss has, that you can't ever disconnect from work even when you are at home or holidays etc. In resume, respect them, underestand them, give them what they want but deserve, but also make them to respect and underestand you.

I have been both a boss and worker (type B) and also both things at same time and i have dealt with all those kinds of workers and bosses (i could also split bosses in different types), the rules i posted before always applied.

[moeloubani]

split up the work, keep them in the dark, build strong connections with people that you deal with in the business so that they let you know if an employee contacts them

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Icy

I think there are three kind of workers:

A) Those who prefer to work for somebody and to get a fixed salary without having to worry about anything once their daily work is done and they head back home.

The problem is that most of those workers are also the ones who won't work a minute extra and will leave work every day at the exact time, also will have little initiative on their own. Good for grunt work, usually won't switch jobs as they want security, good for big corporations where initiative or extra time work is not a big need. A fixed salary and schedule works well for for them, and you need to give them enough work and instructions to keep them busy enough and not having to think a lot on themselves.

B) Those who are more brilliant, more enthusiastic about their job, about starting new projects, that give it all and don't look at the clock if they need to finish something today.

Those are great for our adult online business, where you need to do new and innovative things all the time and need to be done quick. The problem is that they are usually so smart and ambitious, so they might want to work for themselves once they learn enough. They usually work better on a fixed salary + incentives based on their performance, so they will see that their extra work hours and initiatives get a recompense. They are usually a bit more undisciplined and you probably need to give them more freedom about work schedules, etc as they tend to start a revolution when you are too rigid on the rules.

C) The guys in between, probably the harder to manage as they tend to move to type A) or B) depending on the boss, job, etc so you need to study them well and mix things enough to keep them happy depending on to which type A or B they are moving at a given time.

All those kind of workers are good to have in the appropriate mix. The key for you as boss is to find that perfect mix, to assign them the appropriate tasks and responsibilities, to adjust salaries and/or incentives, rules at work, and to keep them happy enough to not to want to leave you, and in fact to make them proud and an important part of their company and projects they work for.

Another key is to show them that being a boss is not just about making more money than your workers while they do all the job. They need to underestand the costs of running a company (you will be surprised of how many workers think that gross sales = net profit) and the headaches a boss has, that you can't ever disconnect from work even when you are at home or holidays etc. In resume, respect them, underestand them, give them what they want but deserve, but also make them to respect and underestand you.

I have been both a boss and worker (type B) and also both things at same time and i have dealt with all those kinds of workers and bosses (i could also split bosses in different types), the rules i posted before always applied.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by BV

I know I was one of those people in my 20's - 30's. I was never happy working for someone else. I changed jobs like i changed my socks. Always going up a level each time. I was never satisfied until I started my own business. Then I had to have 2, then 3 businesses to be happy.

You described me to a T!

When you worked for others, did you also find yourself doing 10x more work than your co-workers and wondering what the fuck was wrong with them?

[epitome]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

split up the work, keep them in the dark, build strong connections with people that you deal with in the business so that they let you know if an employee contacts them

CIA style does work well in stealth, but you also lose amazing collaboration opportunities. A strong leader can easily pull it off though.

[cyber]

The state of California has ruled that non-compete contracts with employees are non binding.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by cyber

The state of California has ruled that non-compete contracts with employees are non binding.

Good. Forcing employees to sign an agreement that they won't go into business for themselves after being in your employee is fucking retarded. That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Greed talking at it's finest.

You give a guy a Christmas bonus, he works an entire year for you til next Christmas, then expects a Christmas bonus, and you get fucking bitchy? No shit the guy expects a Christmas bonus. You're a prick OP.

People get jobs, they gain job experience in a field and they work to better their lives as people. Your employees are not your fucking slaves. If they learn the business as an employee of yours, GOOD. You're not gonna see an apprentice carpenter work with a guy for 4-5 years, learn the trade, then stick around without a decent offer. And you sure as fuck can't legally bind him to never work for himself as a carpenter ever. As people gain experience and skill they expect more for their efforts. Why work for you when someone will pay them more, or they have the applicable skill set to get into business for themselves. You don't necessarily need to be giving them constant raises, but give them some small performance incentives and encouragement to succeed.

I'd say it's your attitude that needs to change some if you want to attract and KEEP good employees, because employees can smell that greedy prick scent on employers. Employees will sit there all day and pick you apart good employer or not, and if there is something fishy eventually they'll catch on.Especially if your employee is good, and they know they are good. The second they feel any hint of exploitation on their part, they're lost. If not now, as soon as they possibly can get out.

The whole Christmas bonus thing still makes me laugh because I know guys entirely like that. I've worked for guys like that before, and I can stereotype you as an employer right off the get go. I could be wrong, but I that one says alot because I've actually been in that exact situation. People just don't like working for guys like that. The kind of employer who makes them feel like their work isn't worth shit, or that they're a burden on the employer's back, or that they're being done a favor by being giving a job. That might fly in a employer's market where employees are desperate, but as long as there's better opportunities elsewhere, the employee isn't gonna take it long.

I'd say just get used to being a revolving door for employees. It can't be that bad. Plenty of businesses who rotate staff constantly that still make plenty of money. I'm not trying to say you're wrong in anyway or that you're running your business wrong OP, but I'm telling you the exact impression that you gave me of yourself as an employer and what the employee viewpoint is like. Maybe considering splitting the work up into more segregated areas of work at lower pay. So know one person knows too too much, and can't run with your entire business plan. Make sure you never let your employees hear you saying shit like this.

[Wizzo]

Non-competes are worth less than the paper they are written on...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Good. Forcing employees to sign an agreement that they won't go into business for themselves after being in your employee is fucking retarded. That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

You have obviously never worked in corporate America or in a management position. Non-competes are the standard. However, they typically are anywhere from 1-3 years all depending. This goes for a lot of CEO's as well when they leave a company.

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Greed talking at it's finest.

'Nuff said.

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Non-competes are worth less than the paper they are written on...

Yet most corporations, and Fortune 500 companies use them.

Guess I will listen to a bunch of pornographers over corporate America.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by BV

The only way to stop this is to pay them so much and treat them so well it is not profitable or either too much of a risk for them to go out and try and duplicate it on their own.

What ever happened to partnerships? If the employee is good and the threat is there that he could leave and become competitive, why not seal him up with a partnership on something? Get something going on the side with him. Let him manage things on the partnership under your supervision, and get keep him making you money? If he does well for you, well you've made some more money off him. If he fails, he learns a lesson in humility and he can go back to his old job beaten down for a while again.

For the longest time I never heard of anyone doing joint ventures with one another in online marketing, not until I started learning more about promoting mainstream stuff and met some better mainstream webmasters. People get together on projects in mainstream all the time. I know a few people working on both sides of these types of arrangements, with happy people on both sides.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

For the longest time I never heard of anyone doing joint ventures with one another in online marketing, not until I started learning more about promoting mainstream stuff and met some better mainstream webmasters. People get together on projects in mainstream all the time. I know a few people working on both sides of these types of arrangements, with happy people on both sides.

I would hazard a guess most people in those arrangements, especially if big dollars are on the line, will have some sort of operating or management agreement in place. It lays out the details for each side, and based on their strengths or what they bring to the table.

More importantly the terms on which to end, and who owns what should it end. Including the profit or revenue sharing, and payment schedule(s).

[kush]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Well said.

The non-compete is essential. Female employees, not so much. They seem to be happy enough just having work, and most that have worked for me were never motivated enough to do something on their own. Any male however is always thinking of a way to fuck you. Whether it is trying to slide in their affiliate codes, take all your secrets and work on the side, or any number of other things. Especially those in their 20's.

That's very interesting... not counting a good guy friend I had who worked for me, the females have outperformed the males and been better overall workers.

[kush]

Originally Posted by Icy

I think there are three kind of workers:

Well said. Thanks for that.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by kush

That's very interesting... not counting a good guy friend I had who worked for me, the females have outperformed the males and been better overall workers.

Correct. Women are. That is why I only hire them now.

Easier to manage. Less worries. Better quality and more consistent workers.

[kush]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Good. Forcing employees to sign an agreement that they won't go into business for themselves after being in your employee is fucking retarded. That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Greed talking at it's finest.

You give a guy a Christmas bonus, he works an entire year for you til next Christmas, then expects a Christmas bonus, and you get fucking bitchy? No shit the guy expects a Christmas bonus. You're a prick OP.

People get jobs, they gain job experience in a field and they work to better their lives as people. Your employees are not your fucking slaves. If they learn the business as an employee of yours, GOOD. You're not gonna see an apprentice carpenter work with a guy for 4-5 years, learn the trade, then stick around without a decent offer. And you sure as fuck can't legally bind him to never work for himself as a carpenter ever. As people gain experience and skill they expect more for their efforts. Why work for you when someone will pay them more, or they have the applicable skill set to get into business for themselves. You don't necessarily need to be giving them constant raises, but give them some small performance incentives and encouragement to succeed.

I'd say it's your attitude that needs to change some if you want to attract and KEEP good employees, because employees can smell that greedy prick scent on employers. Employees will sit there all day and pick you apart good employer or not, and if there is something fishy eventually they'll catch on.Especially if your employee is good, and they know they are good. The second they feel any hint of exploitation on their part, they're lost. If not now, as soon as they possibly can get out.

The whole Christmas bonus thing still makes me laugh because I know guys entirely like that. I've worked for guys like that before, and I can stereotype you as an employer right off the get go. I could be wrong, but I that one says alot because I've actually been in that exact situation. People just don't like working for guys like that. The kind of employer who makes them feel like their work isn't worth shit, or that they're a burden on the employer's back, or that they're being done a favor by being giving a job. That might fly in a employer's market where employees are desperate, but as long as there's better opportunities elsewhere, the employee isn't gonna take it long.

I'd say just get used to being a revolving door for employees. It can't be that bad. Plenty of businesses who rotate staff constantly that still make plenty of money. I'm not trying to say you're wrong in anyway or that you're running your business wrong OP, but I'm telling you the exact impression that you gave me of yourself as an employer and what the employee viewpoint is like. Maybe considering splitting the work up into more segregated areas of work at lower pay. So know one person knows too too much, and can't run with your entire business plan. Make sure you never let your employees hear you saying shit like this.

My first two employees I admittedly made mistakes, but I tried hard, was compassionate and felt I paid well for 'grunt' type work. $32,000 gross pay apiece, plus full medical. All the normal holidays off. Not to mention I pulled a big, big favor and bought them an $8,000 vehicle as advance pay when their car died. I gave them a nice sectional wrap-around couch for their house because they had no furniture, and helped them make a move from a crappy living situation to a good one. I was too nice I think. And they got an extra $1,000 or $1,500 each at Christmas time. However, next year things weren't looking so hot, and their performance wasn't as good in my opinion, and I was asked about bonuses. That I didn't like.

It's 5 years later now and I really like how things are going, and I want to make sure I keep it that way. I'm not trying to nickle or dime anyone... just develop the best long-term employees. I give praise, encourage growth, ask for feedback, organize, etc. This thread was meant to encourage discussion and give ideas. I see I've accomplished that

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by kush

I give praise, encourage growth, ask for feedback, organize, etc.

This is really something that you need to understand and go out of your way to do at every chance possible. A lot of employees need to be told they are doing a good job, and thank you.

I have had to struggle with it over the years to be more vocal, and take time to go up to them and say "good job" personally. Not just in an email. This is BY FAR one of the most overlooked things in my opinion. Pay raises are nice, but many people, especially women, need praise.

So you need to take that extra 30 seconds to tell them, 'thank you', or to compliment them on something you really liked or they surprised you on. This keeps them motivated, and appreciative.

Same can be said for models.

[kush]

Right on Barefootsies. I totally agree.

[MichaelP]

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

You should always have a non-compete / non disclosure in place with any employees that have access to trade secrets and the like. That said, you can't rely on fear of legal action to keep your people loyal. Well, you can, fear is a powerful motivator, but if you in an environment of fear you breed resentment.

I've found if you treat your employees right, you will rarely have anything to worry about. It's hard to cook everything down into one post but I guess in a nutshell be accessable, dont treat your people like mushrooms (feeding them shit and keeping them in the dark), keep them in the know about major happenings in business and company performance, they need to feel emotionally invested in your company's success. Quantify everything, give recognition for outstanding effort and provide rewards based on performance. Don't just give a christmas bonus, base the bonus on how the company has performed thoughout the year. Your employees should feel that they are valued members of a team working towards a common goal.

I always had NDA siged with my former employers and I aways resected them. I like the "mushroom" part as well

[ilnjscb]

Non-competes are actually quite enforceable if they are well written