How to approach photography training?

[Sarah_Jayne]

So, over the last year or so, I have stumbled onto discovering that I have a decent eye for photography and that I really enjoy it. For some reason most of my 'eye' is with still life but I enjoy candids and portraits too.

Now, I know that is just a beginning and I really need to be properly taught a great deal more. Not the least because I am only on an entry level DSLR and I know there is a lot more to learn about technique. I really do want to learn it though and see if I am still any good at that level and then perhaps peruse something in that field.

The problem is that I just don't know what direction I should be going in for training. I am 32 years old and if I am going to perhaps do something real with this down the line I can't be dragging my feet too much. If it turns out to be just a really involved hobby I can see myself being okay with that too as long as I was enjoying it.

Has anybody here been through proper photography training and what sort of courses did you take and what qualifications did you end up with? I am not sure which paths I should be taking here.

[justinsain]

I read your post and got mixed signals.

Do you want to be a better photographer or do you want to be good enough to make money at it?

[cardinalvices]

Sarah, why don't you start by reading a couple of big books? Even if it won't take you beyond just hobby you'll still gain some knowledge and theory.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by justinsain

I read your post and got mixed signals.

Do you want to be a better photographer or do you want to be good enough to make money at it?

I think I want to start out with finding if I am good enough at a higher level to then go on and make some money at it.

[Mr Cheeks]

I use http://www.kelbytraining.com/
Can't beat that at $24.95 a month..

[emmanuelle]

I find that most photography courses these days are just photoshop classes.
Nobody teaches how to shoot well anymore, they just teach you to clean up shit and make them pretty

that's not photography imo

[weekly]

There are a ton of online courses. The fundamentals are really simple. The quality of the execution is up to your talent.
I have always earned a very good living, against all odds, from photography. I will share a trick with you. Keep it between you and me. It is almost impossible to make a living as a photographer. To really stay alive and prosper taking images (still or moving) you need to be a photographer slash something else. Photographer/journalist. Photographer/fashion. Photographer/wedding. When you figure out what you like to do, then you market yourself in your field and you will make a living if you are any good.
Oh yeah...that was all the easy part....now the hard part....learn how to light and how light works, or you may as well shoot with your cell phone and do something else for a living.

[Barefootsies]

Check around locally. A lot of times you can find classes at local college, or workshops.

[Serge Litehead]

interested in this subject too, any good books you guys can suggest for newbs in DSLR photography?

[Grapesoda]

3 things: how big the hole is. F stop. how long the hole is open, shutter speed and how fast the 'film' is... ISO.... that's the way to control 'light' and 'depth of field'.

these 3 are the main factors used to contribute to compostion...

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

3 things: how big the hole is. F stop. how long the hole is open, shutter speed and how fast the 'film' is... ISO.... that's the way to control 'light' and 'depth of field'.

these 3 are the main factors used to contribute to compostion...

I get that I just am not sure what qualifications somebody needs to take things further. I see degree programs but they are a multi year commitment for sure.

[Sly]

What do you need a degree for? People get art degrees to teach art. LOL. Not create their own.

[weekly]

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash

I get that I just am not sure what qualifications somebody needs to take things further. I see degree programs but they are a multi year commitment for sure.

Nothing wrong with multi year commitments. That is how you learn stuff.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by Sly

What do you need a degree for? People get art degrees to teach art. LOL. Not create their own.

No idea other than any photo related jobs I have been looking at for an idea have required qualifications. So, I guess you need one to get money? See, this is what I mean, I have no idea what direction to be moving into with it.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash

No idea other than any photo related jobs I have been looking at for an idea have required qualifications. So, I guess you need one to get money? See, this is what I mean, I have no idea what direction to be moving into with it.

the thing to do is shoot what you 'enjoy/have passion for/understanding of' in the real world. it's commonly assumed that it takes 10,000 hours to get good at something... I've been shooting since 1995 or so... I have probably 5-6K hours with my eye on the camera... so I'm starting to get good...

what do you enjoy shooting? that's the real question isn't it? would you want a job shooting kids on a pony at the park just so you could call yourself a ''professional photographer'?

my thing is people.... that's what I love to shoot.... headshots/editorial/nudes etc... I probably couldn't shoot a nice pic of a tree if you held a gun to my head... shot this on sat for k

[weekly]

the thing to do is shoot what you 'enjoy/have passion for/understanding of' in the real world

Here is where I disagree. That is what every amateur does. If you are lucky, you can do it as a professional. Better route is to learn to shoot something that pays the rent and do it well. Then indulge your passion. Unless you are one of the lucky ones where passion a profit collide, this is a more prudent course to making a living with your eye.
edit: Here is an example. I was shooting a simple commercial once. Three scenes, three different set ups. It was a national brand but not very creative at all. Boring as snot if you ask me. This was ten years ago, and at that time the lighting director (d.o.p.) was earning $10,000.00 a day for five days. He was bored. I was bored. The talent was bored. The food stylists were bored. The only one excited was the Agency Queen. But the money was good. I was on 2500 a day. We were all bored but happy.

[xenigo]

Get a job as an assistant for a well known and well established photographer. If you have to, work for him for free. Work for him for several years. You can make a living doing this, and learn the in's and outs of the business... and you will be well on your way to being successful on your own.

Also... the most important lesson I've learned making a living in photograph is this: Making money with photography has NOTHING to do with photography. It has everything to do with business, and your connections, and who YOU are. People do not do business with you because you're a great photographer, they do business with you because you're someone people know, and someone people like. I've seen some incredibly shitty photographers become incredibly successful. And I've seen some great photographers that failed.

That's it. Seems fucked up, but it's the truth.

[weekly]

Originally Posted by xenigo

Get a job as an assistant for a well known and well established photographer. If you have to, work for him for free. Work for him for several years. You can make a living doing this, and learn the in's and outs of the business... and you will be well on your way to being successful on your own.

Also... the most important lesson I've learned making a living in photograph is this: Making money with photography has NOTHING to do with photography. It has everything to do with business, and your connections, and who YOU are. People do not do business with you because you're a great photographer, they do business with you because you're someone people know, and someone people like. I've seen some incredibly shitty photographers become incredibly successful. And I've seen some great photographers that failed.

That's it. Seems fucked up, but it's the truth.

xenigo and I both agree on this....

[tranza]

Start reading some books..

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by weekly

Here is where I disagree. That is what every amateur does.

myself and one of my buddies both have a passion for shooting nude women.. we both now get paid for it, rather well too. both of us share a common history of giving up everything to achieve this... for years and following the dream... not so sure amateur's do this to be honest.

so now we both shoot some of the most beautiful women in the world sans wardrobe... I do have to shoot some stuff that I'm not patriotically interested in, like BG however that is the nature of the job.

I've read several post at ddpreview about guys that shoot what they love and now get paid for it... usually specialized stuff like dogs or pets... a few even shoot toys that has evolved to a product photography biz... why on earth would someone go to all the trouble necessary to be a pro shooter and create a job they didn't even want?

the only guys I meet like that were the brooks institute grads shooting on set....

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by xenigo

Get a job as an assistant for a well known and well established photographer. If you have to, work for him for free. Work for him for several years. You can make a living doing this, and learn the in's and outs of the business... and you will be well on your way to being successful on your own.

Also... the most important lesson I've learned making a living in photograph is this: Making money with photography has NOTHING to do with photography. It has everything to do with business, and your connections, and who YOU are. People do not do business with you because you're a great photographer, they do business with you because you're someone people know, and someone people like. I've seen some incredibly shitty photographers become incredibly successful. And I've seen some great photographers that failed.

That's it. Seems fucked up, but it's the truth.

more so in the personality fields like fashion etc... and then usually there is a good crew to make sure the shoot doesn't tank.

[justinsain]

Lots of really good advice in here

A long time ago when I first got interested in photography a friend saw what I was doing and wanted to do the same. He decided he would go to school to learn photography and spent two years in Daytona doing it. I'm self taught.

He came back home and became a very successful commercial photographer shooting for the local magazine and realtors in an upscale community. I didn't make money but continued to shoot what I loved and what got me interested in photography in the first place.

A few years later I ran into my friend and we talked about how our photography was progressing. After shooting a lot of surfing pictures I finally achieved one of my goals and that was to get one of my pictures published in SURFER magazine. I got paid $100 and it was my first sale and it took three years. But for those three years I did what I loved and that was spending my time at the beach. Of course I had to supplement my income with a simple job that also allowed me to spend that time at the beach.

My friend told me was making really good money but working long hours for demanding clients and the grind was making him miserable. He said when he got into photography he had a passion like me but lost it when it became a mundane job working for unrealistic people. He then told me that he envied me for being able to still shoot what I love. That moment has always stuck with me and validated my choice of direction.

That was thirty years ago and I still shoot what I want today. I'll admit that I don't have a nice car, house or bank account but my photography path has allowed me to live my dream whether it's on pit road for a NASCAR race, on the beach in Costa Rica with the guys from ENDLESS SUMER or photographing a Playboy Playmate I'm doing what I love and that makes every day worthwhile.

The point is if you want to make a living in photography pick a subject or direction that will keep you satisfied and go in that direction. Otherwise it becomes just a job.

One other thing is the internet has opened things up for everyone and everything you need to sell your photography is available to you and you don't have to rely on anyone else to make a sale.

[weekly]

good post. Two approaches. I came some where right down the middle. I studied broadcast journalism and would up with a thirty pound parrot on my shoulder. My passion was travel and the only way I saw to do it was get someone to pay for it. I traveled non stop for ten years and shot everything from airplane crashes, to famines , to wars, political upheaval and regime changes to freeking OPEC meeting. Stood outside in minus thirty celsius and plus 52 celcisus in the Gulf. Filled countless passports and did a whole lot of stuff that was boring as snot, but when it was great there was nothing coud touch it. All because of a camera and a pretty good eye. But I was/am never a great photographer, but what I can do better than most is tell stories on video or stills. I consider that my skill, and the lump of metal and glass I use, to be my pen. So, its all in your approach. You can't go wrong with good solid training if you have a goal. I have trained people....for a price. You will work harder than if you are in school, but it will be worth it. A mentor will only take you on if you are willing to be totally loyal and do a whole lot of floor sweeping to learn your craft. It all takes time. Its just how you spend it. But you better really really want to do it, not just think its a good idea.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

the thing to do is shoot what you 'enjoy/have passion for/understanding of' in the real world. it's commonly assumed that it takes 10,000 hours to get good at something... I've been shooting since 1995 or so... I have probably 5-6K hours with my eye on the camera... so I'm starting to get good...

what do you enjoy shooting? that's the real question isn't it? would you want a job shooting kids on a pony at the park just so you could call yourself a ''professional photographer'?

my thing is people.... that's what I love to shoot.... headshots/editorial/nudes etc... I probably couldn't shoot a nice pic of a tree if you held a gun to my head... shot this on sat for k

I have an eye and enjoyment for (of all things) food photography. I am getting things 'right' by largely guessing at the moment. I know I could do a great deal more if I wasn't guessing and doing it with intent. I started a food blog just to get myself taking such photos regularly. I shoot nearly everything I cook and then when I go out I find food markets. For example, I am in Philly at the moment visiting family so I went to Reading Terminal Market and took shots of the food for sale.

I also enjoy shooting people but more on a candid basis than planned but planned is fun too. I did once want to be a journalist and I am sure it fills a photo journalism void in my brain.

I am much less interested in landscape sort of stuff.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash

I have an eye and enjoyment for (of all things) food photography. I am getting things 'right' by largely guessing at the moment. I know I could do a great deal more if I wasn't guessing and doing it with intent. I started a food blog just to get myself taking such photos regularly. I shoot nearly everything I cook and then when I go out I find food markets. For example, I am in Philly at the moment visiting family so I went to Reading Terminal Market and took shots of the food for sale.

I also enjoy shooting people but more on a candid basis than planned but planned is fun too. I did once want to be a journalist and I am sure it fills a photo journalism void in my brain.

I am much less interested in landscape sort of stuff.

food photography is an interesting 'craft' with 'craft' being the key word here.... looks at pics and learn the tricks

[justinsain]

It's great you have a subject that interests you. Now look down that path as far as you can and imagine where you end up. If that's where you'd like to be than go for it.

Food photography is specialized in that you wouldn't be using the same equipment as you would for nature photography.

I imagine shooting food is all about set preparation and lighting. Your equipment will be key to getting the best results. With the internet at your fingertips you have all the resources to teach yourself but taking classes would benefit you as well if you feel better learning that way.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by justinsain

One other thing is the internet has opened things up for everyone and everything you need to sell your photography is available to you and you don't have to rely on anyone else to make a sale.

Such as? I know about the various stock photo sites but not anything else.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

food photography is an interesting 'craft' with 'craft' being the key word here.... looks at pics and learn the tricks

I have been obsessed with it for about a year solid now. I buy food magazines just to look at the way they have shot food. I have collected so many props for different sort of food shots. Heck, I cook things just so I can take photos of them..lol Now I want to be doing things on purpose rather than luck. I have one of those mini studio things but have out grown it with what I want to do so am just using the lights but know I need more but have decided to start with learning everything properly and then buying with knowledge rather than just randomly.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by justinsain

It's great you have a subject that interests you. Now look down that path as far as you can and imagine where you end up. If that's where you'd like to be than go for it.

Food photography is specialized in that you wouldn't be using the same equipment as you would for nature photography.

I imagine shooting food is all about set preparation and lighting. Your equipment will be key to getting the best results. With the internet at your fingertips you have all the resources to teach yourself but taking classes would benefit you as well if you feel better learning that way.

I would enjoy shooting cookbooks, for example. Just not sure how you get there. I am also sure it is largely about lighting. I have learned on my own with my two small lights what a difference it makes to have them positioned right. I also find that often natural light is better for my shots but time to step and find out why.

[weekly]

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash

I have an eye and enjoyment for (of all things) food photography. I am getting things 'right' by largely guessing at the moment. I know I could do a great deal more if I wasn't guessing and doing it with intent. I started a food blog just to get myself taking such photos regularly. I shoot nearly everything I cook and then when I go out I find food markets. For example, I am in Philly at the moment visiting family so I went to Reading Terminal Market and took shots of the food for sale.

I also enjoy shooting people but more on a candid basis than planned but planned is fun too. I did once want to be a journalist and I am sure it fills a photo journalism void in my brain.

I am much less interested in landscape sort of stuff.

Here's the deal. Learn to be a food stylist and the photography will come. The piccies are the easy part.

[justinsain]

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash

Such as? I know about the various stock photo sites but not anything else.

I meant before the internet a photographer had to write cover letters and send off pictures in the mail and wait weeks to get a response or make phone calls and inquire.

Now with digital photography and the internet everything moves almost in real time. Also you can become your own publisher and sell your work directly to the buyer.

Before the internet I'd try to sell a picture to a magazine with a circulation of 70,000 and maybe make $100. The competition was fierce. Now I can be my own publisher make a paysite that's available to hundreds of millions and make whatever.

i was just pointing out how much easier it is to make money in photography today than it was when I first started pre digital / internet.

[tim-fg]

Good luck Sarah. Just avoid big books. Complete waste of time.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash

I would enjoy shooting cookbooks, for example. Just not sure how you get there. I am also sure it is largely about lighting. I have learned on my own with my two small lights what a difference it makes to have them positioned right. I also find that often natural light is better for my shots but time to step and find out why.

best thing to do is keep shooting and thinking about it.... as long as you maintain your present course you will arrive at your destination

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by weekly

Here's the deal. Learn to be a food stylist and the photography will come. The piccies are the easy part.

Something else to have to research..lol.

I can't paint, sing, sew or do anything else artistic so art schools would be a problem..lol

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by justinsain

I meant before the internet a photographer had to write cover letters and send off pictures in the mail and wait weeks to get a response or make phone calls and inquire.

Now with digital photography and the internet everything moves almost in real time. Also you can become your own publisher and sell your work directly to the buyer.

Before the internet I'd try to sell a picture to a magazine with a circulation of 70,000 and maybe make $100. The competition was fierce. Now I can be my own publisher make a paysite that's available to hundreds of millions and make whatever.

i was just pointing out how much easier it is to make money in photography today than it was when I first started pre digital / internet.

The good thing about digital too is that it gives me much more room to screw up and learn from it without going broke.

[weekly]

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash

Something else to have to research..lol.

I can't paint, sing, sew or do anything else artistic so art schools would be a problem..lol

Intern with a food stylist.

[Bman]

istockphoto and shutterstock..you can do all of them but those are the ones you should concentrate on.

Find out who is buying your stuff after by looking through magazines and then hit them up directly.

Have big email lists, competitive pricing, website,blog and start marketing locally to restaurants and food manufacturers and then start spreading out....

I was over at very well known Rock Photographer last night. 40 years in the biz...he shot everything with 1 light and the same background. He is a millionaire with 1 look....

I think any photographer can make money with 1 look...have 2 or 3 and people wont recoginize your work... anyways thats my 2 cents.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by Bman

istockphoto and shutterstock..you can do all of them but those are the ones you should concentrate on.

Find out who is buying your stuff after by looking through magazines and then hit them up directly.

Have big email lists, competitive pricing, website,blog and start marketing locally to restaurants and food manufacturers and then start spreading out....

I was over at very well known Rock Photographer last night. 40 years in the biz...he shot everything with 1 light and the same background. He is a millionaire with 1 look....

I think any photographer can make money with 1 look...have 2 or 3 and people wont recoginize your work... anyways thats my 2 cents.

I had my eye on istock since that is who I buy with for my sites. I need a better studio set up for sure to get what I need for that but I am willing to do it.

[Paul Markham]

The hardest part of photography has always been selling the work. Today with digital it's harder.

My brother when he retired was offered courses to go on by his ex employer to get an outside interest. He chose photography and got a degree, he enjoyed it so much he's now going for a masters degree. He has never sold a picture.

I have never had a days training, other that watching other professionals work, and made a few dollars from it over the years.

Decide if you're going to do it as a hobby or too make money because they're entirely different routes now.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Yeah, I have had a lot of food for thought (no pun intended) and think I am going to take a basic course in the spring and until then be self-teaching myself with books and online tutorials. I am going to focus on getting good at food shots that are suitable for stock photography and for now make getting accepted for places like istock my aim. Then I will go from there.

[weekly]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The hardest part of photography has always been selling the work. Today with digital it's harder.

My brother when he retired was offered courses to go on by his ex employer to get an outside interest. He chose photography and got a degree, he enjoyed it so much he's now going for a masters degree. He has never sold a picture.

I have never had a days training, other that watching other professionals work, and made a few dollars from it over the years.

Decide if you're going to do it as a hobby or too make money because they're entirely different routes now.

I agree with Paul. But what you have to learn first is that pictures don't sell. Ideas do. They don't even have to be creative, just valuable. If you can do this, you will earn a fine living taking pictures. Here is the bottom line. Your pictures will only ever be valuable if they tell a story. Otherwise, they are worthless.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by weekly

I agree with Paul. But what you have to learn first is that pictures don't sell. Ideas do. They don't even have to be creative, just valuable. If you can do this, you will earn a fine living taking pictures. Here is the bottom line. Your pictures will only ever be valuable if they tell a story. Otherwise, they are worthless.

Well, that does make sense.