Iron Fist

Hundred countries with better health care than the US

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PornMD

No shit? Almost every debt increase in the past decade has been during 8 of those 10 years in which it was a Republican administration? I did not know that...

Sorry, was still early in reading the thread but that was too hilarious to pass up.

The problema with Obama is the heavy focus on health care reform when the economy is a bigger issue. People need food, water and shelter most of all, and unfortunately need money for all 3 of those things, with shelter being the big problem people are facing. They need jobs to get that money too. He'll watch tons of people start living on the street because of no job and no money to pay their mortgage but hey, they'll get health care!

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directfiesta

lol ... like you do ? with your comments ... right kiddo ...

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

The Demon

Once again, there's a reason your stupid ass is ignored. The same goes with BFT3K. You two are hilarious morons even on a forum full of morons. You're amusing though


And Josh/Kane, you both make good points. The central issue is debt. The Obama administration is involved in deficit spending of epic proportions. For some reason they foolishly believe in the Keynesian theory of "spending towards recovery". What that's doing is making it worse for us and our future children once the collapse hits. Adding another trillion dollars is not the answer, nor is Obamacare.

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Greed is Good

The Demon

It would be nice if your IQ reached the triple digits. Then you wouldn't spend your time embarrassing yourself in your own threads.

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

You ever wonder what life would be like if you had gotten enough oxygen at birth?

The Demon

No, but I often wonder how many moronic human beings wouldn't be here if abortions were 100% legal

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Greed is Good

Hazlewood

But #1 in hot blondes

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Skype: hazegsm

NikKay

Well, they do it all the time already.

NikKay

Are you trying to insinuate that private health care is not a for-profit business? What's liberal about that statement? They do drop sick people and refuse coverage and that's very well documented. We've had to switch insurance companies every year for the past 4 because they wanted to raise our group rate by double digits. I've been denied benefits and I know too many people who have also been denied benefits to think I'm just the minority there. And I'm a healthy and fit 31-year-old!

How much have we spent on the "war" in Iraq? How much does the private health care sector spend on campaigns to convince people public health care is evil?

This isn't liberal drivel. These are the facts of what people are dealing with every single day.

The Demon

Wait what? Where did you get my "insinuations"? And I can reverse what you're saying. "How much time has public sector spent on campaigns to convince people that private health care is evil and money hungry?"

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Greed is Good

will76

Why were you denied coverage if you are healthy and 31 years old? Are you talking about the group you were in being denied, or you individually. I don't see why you, individually would be denied if you are healthy and young. If your group keeps getting denied you most likely are better off on your own and not part of the group.

LOL that is funny. Bush was president from 2000 - 2008. Since Obama has been in the debt still keeps going up and if he gets the health care that he wants the debt will sky rocket up.

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will76

You people in this thread spend more times insulting each other instead of debating the topics.

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The Demon

That's because certain individuals are incompetent and lack the ability to bring concrete evidence into the discussion, instead electing to appeal to emotions.

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Greed is Good

The Demon

It's safe to say that in 1 year, Obama has surpassed Bush's 8 years of deficit spending.

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

Using facts to debate this demon idiot is totally pointless.

Best to just ignore him, or simply treat him as a punching bag troll, as I often do for fun.

He has nothing to do with he adult industry, and shouldn't even be allowed to be here, so you can say whatever you want to him, it won't effect your business.

The Demon is saddled with a terrible pre-existing condition. Unfortunately there is still no vaccine for inherent stupidity.

BFT3K

Go through this thread from the beginning. My points are ignored by your side, and instead, you guys just throw out more crap.

As I've stated many times before - you don't give a shit what I have to say, so why should I give a shit what you have to say?

If you think Bush/Cheney were good for the US, and you think our healthcare is fine, then there is no fucking way in hell we are ever going to agree.

will76

I didn't know I was on a side, what side am I on? I don't like republicans or democrats. I could give a shit about the "sides" or parties. I look at the issues.

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Agent 488

usa! usa! usa!

The Demon

Amen to that. It's hilarious how the left always stays left and the right always stays right.


And BFT3K, keep typing. I think I might be the only one purposely not ignoring you, only for the fact that your stupidity is humorous.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100225/..._care_overhaul

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

Ignoring me?! YOU are the one posting in MY threads!

You are living proof that certain people can exist online, even without a brain.

The Demon

Well, you've proven my point about being incompetent beyond belief. You can't even read one sentence without drooling and having trouble understanding it. Let me post it again, and I'll bold the part I said, so you don't look like a moron again.

Do you see the "not"? Are you blind, stupid or both? Too easy.

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Greed is Good

cykoe6

The article speaks for itself about the effectiveness and humanity of the NHS and socialized medicine in general. This is what Americans have to look forward too.

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will76

I forgot to add to my list of people who are already getting govt run health care is Veterans. It's a damn shame but reading what you posted above made me think right away of the terrible conditions in some of the VA hospitals that our soliders were coming home to and get stuck in. You think we would owe our Vets better than that. Makes you wonder if the govt does that bad a job with medicade (POOR) medicare (OLD) and VA (vets) what makes people think that govt run health care would be better for the rest of the population not already covered by it???

Usually when someone strikes out 3x on something I expect to get the same results or worse out of them in the future on other similar things. Not to mention how they totally miss managed social security. I wont see a dime from social security in 40 years from now but I have already paid a ton into it.

If you want to prove that obama's plan is great then first fix all the other govt run health care programs, make them work correctly then maybe I will put some faith into what you want to do and that you might know what you are doing.

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The Demon

Exactly dude. This has been going on for decades and it's a blatant pissing on the Vets, it's absolutely atrocious.

Yup. This is why I advocate a purely free market. Yes, we get corruption on Wall Street and in the private sector. How do we combat this? We let them fail when they fail. What did we do? We bailed out those that screwed over American citizens. When something fails, it's because the American people have deemed it unnecessary at that point in time, regardless of the reason. When that happens, it's time to move on to something else.

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Greed is Good

kane

Just for the record getting Medicaid is not as easy as you might make it out to be. First off, most Medicaid is controlled primarily at the state level so the qualifications and availability of it can vary from state to state. Secondly, there are almost always other qualifications beyond just being poor to get on medicaid. For example, in my state if you are poor and pregnant you will almost always be accepted. If you are poor and have some kind of serious illness you are more likely to be accepted, but if you are just poor, the odds are not in your favor. They hand it out on a need by need basis so those who are just poor are at the back of the line.

Case in point. About 8 years ago my mom gets laid off from her job. She was 61 years old and had spent the last 20 years working in a job that really doesn't exist anymore. Her job prospects were not very good. With unemployment her only source of income she didn't have any health insurance and eventually the unemployment ran out. For about a year I was able to support her as she looked for a job and tried to get herself back on track. She applied for medicaid but even with no unemployment income and the only income she had being what I gave her to survive, they still denied her. Eventually she got sick. It turns out she had diabetes and didn't know and ended up in the hospital twice before finally having a seizure and having to be transported by ambulance to the ER and admitted for a few days. So then she qualified for a form of Medicaid that helped pay for her health care. To make a long story short she eventually got on disability, but she had to be checked into a nursing home because she had other health problems and needed more care. They gave her full medicaid and paid for everything, but they took all but $50 of her monthly disability check for as long as she stayed in the nursing home.

So yes, a person can get medicaid, but it is not easy and almost always comes only with other circumstances surrounding it. It isn't like you can walk in, show them that you are poor and get medicaid.

Titan

It might be noted that any country with socialized health care automatically ranks higher in that ranking. Doesn't really mean that the health care is better. Also France has really oppressive taxes.

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will76

nothing, when dealing with the government is easy. But, she did get coverage.

I am aware that they make you jump through hoops for those type of programs, medicade, disability, etc. They typically deny about 70% of the disability claims.

Now imagine having to deal with the government for every medical procedure you might ever need to have if govt run health care was for everyone. I am thankful I can pay for my own insurance. I am happy paying for it each month so I don't have to deal with the govt when it comes to my health.

If I had no choice because i was poor, or disabled or old, I would just have to deal with and be glad it was there instead of nothing. But I am glad I don't have to deal with them.

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kane

She did eventually get coverage, but the only reason she got it was because she was found to be disabled by a panel of doctors. Had she not been found to be disabled she wouldn't have gotten it. My point of the post is that you kind of made it out like anyone who is poor can get on medicaid, that isn't the case. there are a lot of poor people who will not qualify for medicaid simply because they are also not very ill while being poor and if they do qualify there is good chance that some or all of any income they do have will be taken by the government as a form of payment of the medicaid.

As far as government run health care I can say this. My mom now has medicare and she has what they call a supplemental policy which is basically a second insurance policy, but most of it is paid by medicare. She is also on the medicare prescription drug plan. She goes to just about any doctor she wants, has no trouble getting prescriptions filled and twice has had to see a specialist and there was no problem getting it. It actually seems to run pretty smoothly. I'm not saying any plan that would be 100% run by the government would run as smoothly, but this does seem to run pretty well.

xmas13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_..._United_States

"Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16% of GDP, second only to East Timor (Timor-Leste) among all United Nations member nations."

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CamTraffic

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei


Right between Costa Rica and Slovenia

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will76

No not all of the poor will get it. Like you said it varies from state to state, the criteria that has to be met. I never said everyone gets government health care for free. I said that a lot of people do get it and government health care does exist. The poor (not all of them) can get medicade, but if you are not poor then you have no shot of getting it. Medicare is govt run and helps for people over 65. The veterans get health care. People who are found to be disabled.

A lot of population already has govt run health care and it sucks. It may not suck for everyone who uses it but over all it is terrible. The sucking part isn't just confined to service, it is also on fraud and money missmangement to name a few things. Medicare and Social Security are in serious trouble financially.

So the govt who has proven it sucks at caring for people and managing the govt run health care it has in place now, wants to take the whole system over? Shouldn't they fix what they have in place now first?

How do you think they are going to pay for it. As I have said in a previous post, you think the health care system is messed up now with private companies, wait till the govt gets controll of it. Our taxes will go through the roof to pay for it. We will pay a lot more in taxes then what we are paying right now for medicare, medicade,etc.. plus our own current insurance. But we will have "FREE" heathcare, lol. Wait till you see the middle class paying in taxes what the people making over 250K are paying right now. Taxes will go up and sevices will go down. It's the only two factors in the eqauation. They make us pay for it, and when that isn't enough the start deciding who lives and who dies. One day that 75 year old women could be someone you know, or I know, that the governemt deams isn't worth paying $100K on a bypass surgery because they have to keep their costs down.

It just doesn't make sense any way you look at it. If medicare, medicade, veterans hospitals were all cutting edge, great places to treat people and they had a good handle on it, no waste, fraud etc... then maybe I would trust them with my life too. but until then no thanks. The system is fucked up, needs to be fixed, but to put it into the hands of the govt, that will only make this worst.

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will76

I don't get why that is funny? What are the determining factors for that list? Who comes up with how this is ranked? Are they taking into account people not insured, the mortality rate from sickness each year??? The govt run portion of our health care system isn't the best, but the private sector is pretty damn good.

OMG look Canada is #30 they must suck too When i get sick I hope I am in Malta because they are #5 on the list.

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Agent 488

kane

While I agree with much of what you are saying, my original point was just pointing out a clarification of what you had originally posted.

Sure Medicare, Medicaid, the VA system and Social Security all have huge problems. The are grossly mismanaged and are taken advantage of by doctors, patients, politicians and everyone in between. It is very possible, most likely probably, that any government run health insurance would end up this way. Taxes will go up to pay for it and there is a chance that the availability of some care could become limited.

But the difference is that nobody is suggesting an entire government takeover of the health care industry. At its biggest the government would supply health insurance for those who do not have it. They would do this by either paying for it outright or creating a public option that is run by the government. They wouldn't run the hospitals or the pharmacies, they would just write the checks. I do believe, as I'm confident you will as well, that even this system - while a long ways form government run health care - will end up bloated and corrupt and costing 10 times what it should. That is the sad part. For as much money as this country spends on health care everyone in this country could have world class coverage, but the system is so fucked up that it doesn't work that way. As I said my mom has decent care, has no trouble seeing doctors or getting what she needs. There is no shortage of care for her. But, it is probably costing the government a whole lot more to pay for her care than a similar person with private heath insurance.

Still, after all this, my original point is this : Your posts said, "If you are POOR you have free health care, its called Medicade." That simply is not the case. A more correct statement is " If you are POOR, and you have some other kind of ailment, you might get on medicaid." the demand for medicaid is so high that just about every state has a huge waiting lists. Those who are worst off get picked up first. Those who are simply poor sit on the list waiting.

NikKay

I was denied a surgery I needed and told I could either sign a waiver saying I would never ask them to pay for that surgery again and keep my insurance or they would drop me and refund the premiums I had paid.

I let them drop me and refund my premiums, then I applied for "medically needy Medicaid" which I was approved for and Medicaid paid for my $30K surgery... which the doctor f'd up and had to be redone... again, all paid by Medicaid.

I grew up on Medicaid and we could go to the doctor, dentist, or hospital at any time and never get a bill or denial for services. This is for coverage of children, of course. Adults don't have it as easy with the Medicaid system. If you're pregnant you can get it. If you're disabled you can get it. If you're "medically needy" you can get it. If you're a single mother with children you can get it. Poor men are almost never approved, in my experience.

If I couldn't afford insurance and one of my children fell deathly ill... I would be better off quitting my job and applying for Medicaid and other benefits (food stamps, AFDC, WIC, housing vouchers, etc) under the current system. That's a problem. I should be able to get *necessary* care without taking it to that level. To be clear, I can afford insurance and I do have insurance but there are a lot of people who simply cannot afford to pay the high cost. I've been in that boat too and it's not a fun place to be.

The bigger problem IMHO is that even those WITH insurance can find themselves in a situation where they cannot afford to pay all the co-payments and deductibles and other "patient shares" these insurance companies are requiring. OR they can be completely denied necessary procedures and have to try to come up with that kind of money on their own.

I don't know what the right solution is but I don't know how anyone can argue that these private companies are screwing it up just as much as the government is on their side with Medicaid and the other government run programs. The private companies have proven they need legislation and oversight. The government has proven they need checks and balances in place. Either way, a private company with shareholders breathing down their necks is NEVER going to work for the best interests of the people. That's just good logic.

roly

lol, that's one hospital that was a disgrace, that's why it made the news. the VAST majority of nhs hospitals are excellent. and please don't use the term humanity when you don't agree with socialized medicine.

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product 16% than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18th"


Expenditure per capita US $7290 UK $2992
infant mortality US 6.7/100k UK 4.8/100K
Life expectancy US 78.1 UK 79.1

Please explain how private healthcare is better. Socialised medicine although it can have its faults is something for a country to be proud of.

BFT3K

Some people either have enough money, and don't give a shit about the less fortunate.

Some people have been brainwashed by right wing nuts and/or big corps, and continue to make decisions against their own self-interests, like mindless sheep.

Some people believe healthcare should be a privilege, and some people believe healthcare should be a right.

Some people pretend the government should not run anything, but don't say shit when half their money goes to the pentagon instead of healthcare and education.

These are the same people who would not dare speak out against social security, medicare, unemployment benefits, roadwork, public schools, safe food, child labor laws, and on and on - all government funded programs, projects, and regulations.

But hey, then you have morons posting here like The Demon, with IQ levels so low it's impossible to know what they are thinking.

Weird how every other country laughs at the US healthcare system though...