AVI to Flash - Anything new out there?

[DWB]

Thanks.

[chupachups]

Depends on what you are already using

[VGeorgie]

You've really ever only needed Flash CS4 which comes with a good converter, or On2 Flix Pro or Sorenson Squeeze for Flash or anything else that supports VP6 format. FFmpeg does not, so forget it and the shareware proggies that use it. FFmpeg supports only an extremely old FLV format that doesn't match quality with the latest that Flash Player can do.

Or you could use x264 and encode in H.264 format, but the usual caution applies: not everyone has updated beyond Flash 9 version 3, which is the minimum version for playing H.264 videos.

[fris]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Thanks.

besides adobe flash cs4, videocharge, and theothers, theirs a few cheap solutions.

http://www.aone-media.com/videoconverter.htm

http://www.boilsoft.com/videoconverter/index.html

[DWB]

Originally Posted by VGeorgie

You've really ever only needed Flash CS4 which comes with a good converter, or On2 Flix Pro or Sorenson Squeeze for Flash or anything else that supports VP6 format. FFmpeg does not, so forget it and the shareware proggies that use it. FFmpeg supports only an extremely old FLV format that doesn't match quality with the latest that Flash Player can do.

Or you could use x264 and encode in H.264 format, but the usual caution applies: not everyone has updated beyond Flash 9 version 3, which is the minimum version for playing H.264 videos.

I'm using sorenson now but not with that Flix Pro. Gonna try that right now.

I also have Flash CS3 and forgot all about it. Going to try that as well.

[babymaker]

Marking this for later

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I'm using sorenson now but not with that Flix Pro. Gonna try that right now.

I also have Flash CS3 and forgot all about it. Going to try that as well.

As long as it's a faiurly recent version of Squeeze you should be okay. You really do want to chose the VP6 option. If it says "Sorenson Spark" that won't give you as good a quality. That's the same codec that FFmpeg uses.

CS3 will encode to VP6, which is playable on Flash Player 8 or later. CS4 will also do H.264 videos, but as they're coming out with a CS5 soon no sense upgrading now, if you're planning to.

Really sounds like you're already set.

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by babymaker

Marking this for later

for the future

[SGS]

Is H.264 a good option still?

[sicone]

http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/

its free, fast and works on several formats to flash including avi

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by SGS

Is H.264 a good option still?

Yes but it's always a good idea to have a fallback to FLV if you can. Most Flash video players don't do this internally, so you either have to write a server script, or do it as a preloader or some other fancy footwork. Of the bigger players, forums for JWPlayer and Flowplayer have posts about people cracking this nut.

You might want to create a log for your server that detects the version of Flash your users have. They need to have v9r115 or later to play H.264 videos. I'd say if more than 3-4% of your users have less than this version you'll either need to go with FLV or use a fallback. Otherwise that's a fairly large market to lose.

On dvdvideosoft: It's a GUI wrapper for FFmpeg, so it uses the Sorenson Spark codec. Gives you maybe a third less quality for the same file size as VP6. Spark was developed a decade ago and while great in its day has been superceded since Flash 8 came out.

[Matyko]

ImTOO MPEG Encoder converts from/to all formats imo and does a great job.
http://www.imtoo.com/mpeg-encoder.html
They have a ton of other tools, I bought their Splitter as well.

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by Matyko

ImTOO MPEG Encoder converts from/to all formats imo and does a great job.

Last I say on the issue: also FFmpeg based. Almost all of these free/shareware programs are. As such the FLVs produced by it are art much less quality than you could be getting. (And no, I don't work for On2 or Sorenson or anyone else selling licensed VP6 encoders! FFmpeg does a lot of great things, but making the best FLVs isn't one of them. At best it's mediocre.)

ImToo is even on FFmpeg Hall of Shame for breaking the FFmpeg GPL license:

roundup. ffmpeg. org/issue1311

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by SGS

Is H.264 a good option still?

As HTML5 can play video without the need for flash, I would say h264 is the sensible option. H264 means you can stream right now to the iPhone, Safari and Firefox with no need for anything to do with Flash.

It has to be the safest bet, imho.

[VGeorgie]

Last I heard HTML5 in Firefox can't play H.264. The problem is mostly licensing. Firefox supports Ogg Theora for HTML5, which is a splinter off a very old VP3 codec from On2. They've improved it some, but it does not match the quality of H.264, or IMO, VP6.

FWIW, Apple will not support Theora in Safari because (they claim) to be concerned about patent restrictions. VP3 was initially patented by On2, but since released into the public domain. Apparently there is a question about On2 warranting that the codec is without patent encumbrance from third-parties. MPEGLA warrants its licensors against patent claims for H.264.

If you have the disk space and technical tools to do it, the best overall scheme is this (basically what YouTube does for most videos):

* If no Flash installed, offer H.264 download and allow browser to launch the appropriate player (e.g. Quicktime in iPhone, etc.)

* If Flash is installed, check version. If less than Flash 8, deliver Sorenson Spark FLV. If Flash 8 or later deliver VP6 FLV.

* Optional: If Flash is installed, and if version of Flash is equal or greater to v9r115, you have a choice of delivering VP6-S if the video is HD, and/or H.264, your choice.

HTML5 - while promising - is currently a curiosity and isn't something to actively support on a production server. I wouldn't, for example, recommend testing if the user has Safara or Firefox 3.5+ and deliver HTML5 instead, especially if I'm doing streaming as opposed to progressive download, bandwidth detection, or anything else that the more elaborate Flash players are often used for.

[trevesty]

SUPER!

Or Adobe Media Encoder.

I use both.

[Deej]

What is your issue with Sorenson? Is it just not cutting it?

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by Deej

What is your issue with Sorenson? Is it just not cutting it?

If the aim is better quality at lower bitrate/filesize, then yes it no longer cuts it. Macromedia didn't think so when they were developing Flash 8, which is why they licensed something else. The newer codecs deliver smaller videos with less ringing and noise while keeping the same or even smaller file size, so it makes sense to use them, especially so since nearly everyone has Flash Player 8 or later.

I don't see a reason to keep using these old tools, except that they're "free." Maybe FFmpeg will eventually be compiled with a VP6 encoder, and while it's on their todo list, so are a bunch of things that are still in development.

A decent basic VP6 encoder is only 40 bucks yet it delivers better quality and smaller files to your peeps - win/win sort of thing. Or use CS3/4 or Premier, which comes with a free VP6 and/or H.264 encoder, and a lot of folks have one of these already.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by VGeorgie

Yes but it's always a good idea to have a fallback to FLV if you can. Most Flash video players don't do this internally, so you either have to write a server script, or do it as a preloader or some other fancy footwork. Of the bigger players, forums for JWPlayer and Flowplayer have posts about people cracking this nut.

You might want to create a log for your server that detects the version of Flash your users have. They need to have v9r115 or later to play H.264 videos. I'd say if more than 3-4% of your users have less than this version you'll either need to go with FLV or use a fallback. Otherwise that's a fairly large market to lose.

On dvdvideosoft: It's a GUI wrapper for FFmpeg, so it uses the Sorenson Spark codec. Gives you maybe a third less quality for the same file size as VP6. Spark was developed a decade ago and while great in its day has been superceded since Flash 8 came out.

All of this is something I have not taken into consideration.

The h264 I was hoping would be an easy solution, but didn't think about a user having an older flash. Do you know if the JW players are easy to tweak to detect and use the correct file?

Also, do you know if the Flash CS3 is a VP6 encoder? I am going to upgrade I think (to CS4), but have not done so yet.

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

The h264 I was hoping would be an easy solution, but didn't think about a user having an older flash. Do you know if the JW players are easy to tweak to detect and use the correct file?

Also, do you know if the Flash CS3 is a VP6 encoder? I am going to upgrade I think (to CS4), but have not done so yet.

For JW Player, and assuming progressive download (not streaming) videos, you basically do the version detect with JavaScript, then feed one video if it's less than v9r115, and another if it's >= v9r115. Flowplayer is the same way. Both players have active user forums where you can find others who have posted code, working and not.

There may be some specialized player that do the check internally, then take either of two (or even three) filenames you've given it. I'm not aware of any such players by name, but as it would be fairly simple to do there must be something out there that works this way.

Flash 8 and above comes with a VP6 encoder, so CS3 should have it. CS4 has both a VP6 and H.264 encoder. Be wary of using third party encoders for H.264, especially Quicktime, that don't prepare the file for Flash Player delivery. The Flash version of H.264 contains some slightly different internal mechanics that an H.264 created by Quicktime or Final Cut Pro lacks. Specifically you need to run these files through a utility (such as MP4box) to enable them to start playing soon after download has begun.

[Deej]

Did you just say that Sorenson is a free program?

I mean you have points about things... but you are mistaken on the quality of Sorenson.

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by Deej

Did you just say that Sorenson is a free program?

I mean you have points about things... but you are mistaken on the quality of Sorenson.

I'm talking about Sorenson *Spark*. It's a codec. It's not a program. Sorenson Spark was the first FLV format supported in Flash Player, starting with version 6. It was superceded by On2 VP6 with the introduction of Flash 8.

Now with Flash 8 having 99% or so penetration there is no reason to continue using the old Sorenson Spark codec. People still use it because it's the encoder built into FFmpeg. FFmpeg is free. It does not (currently) support encoding to VP6 FLV.

The programs Sorenson Squeeze and Sorenson Squeeze for Flash are not free (anything but) and they are very good. The latest versions of Squeeze for Flash natively supports VP6 FLV, as well as the older Spark codec of course, and H.264.

Hope that clears things up.

[fatfoo]

Originally Posted by fris

besides adobe flash cs4, videocharge, and theothers, theirs a few cheap solutions.

http://www.aone-media.com/videoconverter.htm

http://www.boilsoft.com/videoconverter/index.html

That sounds good.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by VGeorgie

Be wary of using third party encoders for H.264, especially Quicktime, that don't prepare the file for Flash Player delivery. The Flash version of H.264 contains some slightly different internal mechanics that an H.264 created by Quicktime or Final Cut Pro lacks. Specifically you need to run these files through a utility (such as MP4box) to enable them to start playing soon after download has begun.

You are referring to the hinting? Moving the moov atom.

For my MAC, I picked up a product called Turbo264. It's a dongle encoder, fastest encoder I've ever seen for h.264, excellent quality. Problem is, it doesn't "hint" the video. Fail. I was told I could add that by then running it through QT Pro. Fail again. So now I'm using Sorenson Squeeze for the h.264. It's a lot slower, but it works.

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

You are referring to the hinting? Moving the moov atom.

Hinting is an encoding process of providing "hints" for better compression and decompression. Quicktime hints are only going going to be useful when streaming to the Quicktime player. I don't believe Flash Player or Flash Media Server uses the Quicktime hinting track.

Moving the moov atom (which I was talking about) refers to relocating some metadata from the end of the file to the beginning, so that the whole file doesn't need to be completely loaded before it will play.

You'll know if the moov atom is in the right spot if you get the file onto your server and all your users have to download all two or five or whatever minutes of the video before playback starts.