Why We Should Ditch Religion (CNN)

[Barefootsies]

(CNN) -- For the world to tackle truly important problems, people have to stop looking to religion to guide their moral compasses, the philosopher Sam Harris told CNN.

"We should be talking about real problems, like nuclear proliferation and genocide and poverty and the crisis in education," Harris said in a recent interview at the TED Conference in Long Beach, California. TED is a nonprofit group dedicated to "ideas worth spreading."

"These are issues which tremendous swings in human well-being depend on. And it's not at the center of our moral concern."

Religion causes people to fixate on issues of less moral importance, said Harris, a well-known secularist, philosopher and neuroscientist who is the author of the books "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation."

"Religion has convinced us that there's something else entirely other than concerns about suffering. There's concerns about what God wants, there's concerns about what's going to happen in the afterlife," he said.

"And, therefore, we talk about things like gay marriage as if it's the greatest problem of the 21st century. We even have a liberal president who ostensibly is against gay marriage because his faith tells him it's an abomination.

"It's completely insane."

Watch Harris' talk at the TED Conference

Harris also said people should not be afraid to declare that certain acts are right and others are wrong. A person who would spill battery acid on a girl for trying to learn to read, for instance, he said, is objectively wrong by scientific standards.

"It's not our job to not judge it and say, 'Well, to each his own. Everyone has to work out their own strategy for human fulfillment.' That's just not true," he said.

"There's people who are wrong about human fulfillment."

Harris placed no faith in the idea that Muslims and Christians will be able to put their differences aside and cooperate on global issues.

"There's no way to reconcile Islam with Christianity," he said. "This difference of opinion admits of compromise as much as a coin toss does."

http://us.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/25...ris/index.html

[munki]

TED rules...

[DaddyHalbucks]

Cool stuff.

[marcop]

Funny... I was hanging out with Jesus in LA, just a few days ago:

[POed-poster]

The only answer is to treat it like the fucking disease it is. It does nothing but breed hate and stupidity!

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by marcop

Must rock being that dude!

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by POed-poster

The only answer is to treat it like the fucking disease it is. It does nothing but breed hate and stupidity!

hate and stupidity is a human trait

Monotheism is what needs to go..

[CaptainHowdy]

LOL @ "human fullfilment" - pure capitalist/pragmatic logic. I like the "secular" GFY'ers that end up believing in money as much as a Christian believes in Jesus.

[Martin]

Pretty much how I see things.

[The Heron]

We should also ditch stupid people, religious nuts usually dont even read the whole bible they just pick out parts that sound good to them.

[The Demon]

While we're at it, lets ditch the atheists who believe in mankind and use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

Btw, there's nothing less credible than a philosopher, these people are usually the laughing stock of society, sitting in their starbucks regurgitating their meaningless mental masturbation, hoping the opposite sex notices them.

[The Sultan Of Smut]

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

LOL @ "human fullfilment" - pure capitalist/pragmatic logic. I like the "secular" GFY'ers that end up believing in money as much as a Christian believes in Jesus.

THE best one liner I've ever heard on this board!

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by The Demon

While we're at it, lets ditch the atheists who believe in mankind and use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

Do you have any clue about the dumb shit you say or do you just spout bullshit you heard from someone else all day? wtf does that nonsense even mean? What exactly has any atheist done as an individual or group that could be classified as "whatever they want" and wtf does that even imply?

[POed-poster]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

hate and stupidity is a human trait

Monotheism is what needs to go..

And polytheism and pantheism are better?

[Sid70]

The read is too long for gfy. But reading the title I can tell they SHOULD shove their SHOULDs up their asses.

[POed-poster]

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

LOL @ "human fullfilment" - pure capitalist/pragmatic logic. I like the "secular" GFY'ers that end up believing in money as much as a Christian believes in Jesus.

Jesus won't pay the bills.

[Sabby]

Jesus loves me.


Sabby

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by Sabby

Jesus loves me.

and 12 cocks on his lips. There... I said it... the cat is out of the bag.

[POed-poster]

Originally Posted by The Demon

While we're at it, lets ditch the atheists who believe in mankind and use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

Btw, there's nothing less credible than a philosopher, these people are usually the laughing stock of society, sitting in their starbucks regurgitating their meaningless mental masturbation, hoping the opposite sex notices them.

What a fucking moron you are. You are a typical conservative ass-wipe, dissing what you will never understand.

Can you please point me to a single post you have made about this business? All you ever do is ridicule it. There used to be a rule on GFY that people who not adult webmasters get banned. You serve no purpose to this forum. You are nothing but an annoying troll.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Do you have any clue about the dumb shit you say or do you just spout bullshit you heard from someone else all day? wtf does that nonsense even mean? What exactly has any atheist done as an individual or group that could be classified as "whatever they want" and wtf does that even imply?

Gotta love your stupidity. Let me repeat the same statement to you and watch you rationalize using double standards. But if I don't agree with you, it's because I'm following someone else! If you don't agree with me, it's because you think for yourself! Now you know why it's so easy for me to deal with people who possess half of my intelligence.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by POed-poster

What a fucking moron you are. You are a typical conservative ass-wipe, dissing what you will never understand.

Can you please point me to a single post you have made about this business? All you ever do is ridicule it. There used to be a rule on GFY that people who not adult webmasters get banned. You serve no purpose to this forum. You are nothing but an annoying troll.

^Mentally unstable kids like that make me want to become religious, if I wasn't already. Gotta love the product of human secularism...Or just flat out stupidity..

Btw I was trying to figure out your purpose on this forum but "making insane threads against religion while getting ridiculed" doesn't constitute as a purpose.. So I guess we're even.

[Gambrinus]

Originally Posted by The Demon

there's nothing less credible than a philosopher

Sure there is. A guy who spends his days on a porn webmaster forum attempting to spread the trailer park metaphysics that results from him trying to wrap his little mind around Fox talking points.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Gotta love your stupidity. Let me repeat the same statement to you and watch you rationalize using double standards. But if I don't agree with you, it's because I'm following someone else! If you don't agree with me, it's because you think for yourself! Now you know why it's so easy for me to deal with people who possess half of my intelligence.

As usual, you just babble on instead of answering the question after calling someone a name. Are you going to answer the question or just keep babbling?

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by nation-x

As usual, you just babble on instead of answering the question after calling someone a name. Are you going to answer the question or just keep babbling?

There's nothing to answer because as usual, you make up some hilarious garbage for why someone disagrees with you. No logic to it whatsoever.

Edit: Since I enjoy playing around with my inferiors who are probably twice my age, I'll indulge you. No, I'm not regurgitating what someone else said. There, happy?

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Gambrinus

Sure there is. A guy who spends his days on a porn webmaster forum attempting to spread the trailer park metaphysics that results from him trying to wrap his little mind around Fox talking points.

Or someone who spends his time making fun of someone's username, tries his best to sound intelligent, and can't tell the difference between spelling and grammar?

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by The Demon

There's nothing to answer because as usual, you make up some hilarious garbage for why someone disagrees with you. No logic to it whatsoever.

Edit: Since I enjoy playing around with my inferiors who are probably twice my age, I'll indulge you. No, I'm not regurgitating what someone else said. There, happy?

Uhh... YOU are the one that made something up.

Originally Posted by The Demon

While we're at it, lets ditch the atheists who believe in mankind and use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

I asked you what you think that means since you said it... If you aren't willing to expand on it then why even say it?

[fatfoo]

In recent news, Russia and USA signed agreement to reduce nuclear weapons by 30%.

Barack Obama is seeking elimination of nuclear weapons.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Uhh... YOU are the one that made something up.

What did I make up? Repeating something doesn't make it true.

I asked you what you think that means since you said it... If you aren't willing to expand on it then why even say it?

The people who try to outlaw religion are the same nuts who follow secular humanism. If you think believing in a higher power is retarded, how much dumber is it believing in mankind(which is what you believe in if not a higher power), knowing that believing in mankind puts you in the position to follow the rules of man, which then makes moral relativism a realistic notion, which also claims that there is no right and wrong, only perception.

Hope you follow.

****That made no sense!!!****-prediction.

[Gambrinus]

lets ditch the atheists who believe in mankind and use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

C'mon Professor Demon, tell us all about how atheists use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Gambrinus

C'mon Professor Demon, tell us all about how atheists use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

I'm pretty sure this conversation is out of your league. I will continue watching your amusing posts though.

[PornMD]

Originally Posted by The Demon

While we're at it, lets ditch the atheists who believe in mankind and use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

How about we ditch anyone who uses ANY bullshit excuse to do whatever they want? Religious people do it too - they've used God to do whatever they want, including attempted genocide. Oh but perhaps if they were "truly" religious, they wouldn't be doing that, and therein lies the problem with religion. Like socialism - might sound great on paper, but never goes how it should in actual practice. Barely anyone truly follows their religion.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by PornMD

How about we ditch anyone who uses ANY bullshit excuse to do whatever they want? Religious people do it too - they've used God to do whatever they want, including attempted genocide. Oh but perhaps if they were "truly" religious, they wouldn't be doing that, and therein lies the problem with religion. Like socialism - might sound great on paper, but never goes how it should in actual practice. Barely anyone truly follows their religion.

The bolded part is far from true and pretty much ignorant. I can mostly agree with the rest of your statement. Religious fanaticism brought us the crusades. Secular fanaticism brought us the Holocaust, and Stalin.. Don't think we want to add up the deaths with both. I abhor any kind of fanaticism. But the problem is, mentally deranged morons like POED associate religion with fanaticism.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by The Demon

The people who try to outlaw religion are the same nuts who follow secular humanism. If you think believing in a higher power is retarded, how much dumber is it believing in mankind(which is what you believe in if not a higher power), knowing that believing in mankind puts you in the position to follow the rules of man, which then makes moral relativism a realistic notion, which also claims that there is no right and wrong, only perception.

First, you are mistaken that all Atheists are secular humanists... I certainly am not. I don't need to justify my existence and from where I sit, secular humanist philosophy originates from a position of weakness... the need to justify their existence. It is simple enough to accept that noone has the answers to the question of the origin of life... and there is no need to justify ones existence. I am alive and that is a basic truth.

Secular humanists share that flaw with Christians (and many other religions)... the need to justify their existence and to make themselves feel special in some way. It is logical, however, to say that we are the product of our environment that shapes our moral compass. To simply dismiss that is false logic.

Atheism has philosophy in the same sense that religion does. If you are a Southern Baptist you probably think your religious philosophy (theology) is superior to some other denominations or religions. The Christian right definitely thinks that its religion is better than Islam... so there is the proof in the pudding that we are the product of our perception which was shaped through experience and culture.

Religion is here to stay... it's a matter of reality. Even if religion was eliminated, there would be philosophical differences between people based on environment and culture that would be the next excuse to hate each other. I just don't think that religion has a role to play in governance... because it is too easy to use it as a tool to control people.

[Gambrinus]

The people who try to outlaw religion are the same nuts who follow secular humanism. If you think believing in a higher power is retarded, how much dumber is it believing in mankind(which is what you believe in if not a higher power), knowing that believing in mankind puts you in the position to follow the rules of man, which then makes moral relativism a realistic notion, which also claims that there is no right and wrong, only perception.

And here you are trying to tell us philosophers are worthless when you yourself are jam packed with hillbilly dialectic.

Secular humanism is in bed with moral and ethical relativism, no shit captain obvious. And?

lets ditch the atheists who believe in mankind and use relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

You still neglected to explain how atheists are using relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Gambrinus

And here you are trying to tell us philosophers are worthless when you yourself are jam packed with hillbilly dialectic.

Secular humanism is in bed with moral and ethical relativism, no shit captain obvious. And?



You still neglected to explain how atheists are using relativism as a tool to do whatever they want.

Translation: I don't understand what he's saying so I'm going to call him something like a hillbilly or a redneck, and be done with it, hoping he doesn't call me out..

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Secular fanaticism brought us the Holocaust...

That is just false. Hitler constantly brought up religion and talked about the Aryan Christ. Don't just spit bullshit... let's stick to facts.

I don't know that much about Stalin... so I won't speak on that.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by nation-x

First, you are mistaken that all Atheists are secular humanists... I certainly am not. I don't need to justify my existence and from where I sit, secular humanist philosophy originates from a position of weakness... the need to justify their existence. It is simple enough to accept that noone has the answers to the question of the origin of life... and there is no need to justify ones existence. I am alive and that is a basic truth.

So what are you?

Secular humanists share that flaw with Christians (and many other religions)... the need to justify their existence and to make themselves feel special in some way. It is logical, however, to say that we are the product of our environment that shapes our moral compass. To simply dismiss that is false logic.

Our environment shapes our moral compass? You're advocating a form of relativism here. We are the product of our society. Our rules exist in our society and other rules exist in other societies, which means what's right for you may not be right for me.
Furthermore, I think you're all about stereotypes. Why do religious people need to justify their existence? How is that any different than you telling me that "we are the product of our environment..." You get crazies from both sides, aka the religious fanatics and people in prison, and then the moral relativist left, all who try to justify their existence. I believe in God/higher power and I choose to follow his laws. That's not a justification for anything.

Atheism has philosophy in the same sense that religion does. If you are a Southern Baptist you probably think your religious philosophy (theology) is superior to some other denominations or religions. The Christian right definitely thinks that its religion is better than Islam... so there is the proof in the pudding that we are the product of our perception which was shaped through experience and culture.

I'm not sure the Christian right thinks that. I'm Jewish and I'm glad Christianity and Islam exist as different forms of religion. There are extremists everywhere but I would rather have religion dominate than secular humanism.

Religion is here to stay... it's a matter of reality. Even if religion was eliminated, there would be philosophical differences between people based on environment and culture that would be the next excuse to hate each other.

I can agree to that.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by nation-x

That is just false. Hitler constantly brought up religion and talked about the Aryan Christ. Don't just spit bullshit... let's stick to facts.

I don't know that much about Stalin... so I won't speak on that.

I figured you'd mention that, which is completely false. For everytime he brought up religion, he brought up secular humanism, him being the supreme being, Germany being the supreme power in the world, and Aryan blood is superior to everybody else. That is in NO way Christian, NOR religious. Not to mention, he had many Churches destroyed.

Stalin was full bat shit anti religion insane, like POED. Jews, Christians, all were systematically imprisoned or exterminated..

[marcop]

Originally Posted by nation-x

First, you are mistaken that all Atheists are secular humanists...

I post on another board that has become infected with wacko conservatives. Although the board is not supposed to be political, these loonies post multiple threads every day about how Obama is evil, and liberals are evil, and how anyone who isn't a wacko conservative is evil, etc. ad nauseam. They post in each others threads, reinforcing the bile and nonsense they're disseminating, and gang up on anyone who posts anything to contradict them. They are, in short, bullies.

You're never going to win an argument with them, so you may as well give up now. And they're really not worth arguing with... I now think of them as retards who weren't born retarded, but who chose being retarded as a way of life.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by marcop

I post on another board that has become infected with wacko conservatives. Although the board is not supposed to be political, these loonies post multiple threads every day about how Obama is evil, and liberals are evil, and how anyone who isn't a wacko conservative is evil, etc. ad nauseam. They post in each others threads, reinforcing the bile and nonsense they're disseminating, and gang up on anyone who posts anything to contradict them. They are, in short, bullies.

You're never going to win an argument with them, so you may as well give up now. And they're really not worth arguing with... I now think of them as retards who weren't born retarded, but who chose being retarded as a way of life.

Kinda hilarious how this forum gets the exact opposite with wacko liberals, but thanks for proving you're intelligent enough to be objective.

[marcop]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Kinda hilarious how this forum gets the exact opposite with wacko liberals, but thanks for proving you're intelligent enough to be objective.

Dude, I just said--and I'm paraphrasing--that I consider you and your ilk to be willfully ignorant. Does that sound objective?

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by The Demon

So what are you?

I am a logical person and an American... why do I need to identify myself with some philosophical group? I don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster. I don't see any physical proof that there is a higher power and all religions were developed by men as a way to justify their existence... it's as simple as that

Originally Posted by The Demon

Our environment shapes our moral compass? You're advocating a form of relativism here. We are the product of our society. Our rules exist in our society and other rules exist in other societies, which means what's right for you may not be right for me.

I am not advocating anything... it's a fact and you disagreed with me and agreed with me in the same paragraph... are you schizophrenic?

Originally Posted by The Demon

I'm not sure the Christian right thinks that. I'm Jewish and I'm glad Christianity and Islam exist as different forms of religion. There are extremists everywhere but I would rather have religion dominate than secular humanism.

The religious right does think that... I grew up in evangelical churches... believe me... they think they are the "chosen"... alot of religions do. Again... Atheism does not equal secular humanism... that is a single philosophy among many... just like there are different theological beliefs among religions.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by marcop

Dude, I just said--and I'm paraphrasing--that I consider you and your ilk to be willfully ignorant. Does that sound objective?

Wow, I guess your ability to sense sarcasm is as hilarious as your interpretations. I'll use your logic though seeing as how you're too stupid to see the irony and hypocrisy of your statements. Are those "wacko conservatives", truly wacko conservatives, or are they "wacko conservatives" because they don't agree with your wacko liberal mindset? Hmmm maybe you should stay out of big boy conversations until you get your thoughts in order.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I am a logical person and an American... why do I need to identify myself with some philosophical group? I don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster. I don't see any physical proof that there is a higher power and all religions were developed by men as a way to justify their existence... it's as simple as that

Which is your opinion, at best. You need to see something in front of you to believe it? I see ethical monotheism as a way to better oneself, so we disagree on that.

I am not advocating anything... it's a fact and you disagreed with me and agreed with me in the same paragraph... are you schizophrenic?

I'm not too sure what you're talking about, seeing as I just explained what you described as being a form of "relativism".

The religious right does think that... I grew up in evangelical churches... believe me... they think they are the "chosen"... alot of religions do. Again... Atheism does not equal secular humanism... that is a single philosophy among many... just like there are different theological beliefs among religions.

I do believe the Jewish people were chosen. But how would that make us look down on other religions exactly? For religious people, there is no one truth path to God/higher order. If the religious right truly does that, then they're ignorant..

Edit: And if you're telling me I agreed and disagreed with you in the same post, it's because you made more than a single point, which I thought would be quite obvious.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by marcop

I now think of them as retards who weren't born retarded, but who chose being retarded as a way of life.

I can understand what you are saying... I find that is it quite common for them to contradict themselves constantly... the reason is that they aren't arguing based on logic but rather on feeling... how they feel about the subject... so they trip over the logic arguing to defend their indefensible position as someone who believes in magic.

[Gambrinus]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Translation: I don't understand what he's saying so I'm going to call him something like a hillbilly or a redneck, and be done with it, hoping he doesn't call me out..

And yet you don't call me out. Why? Because you can't.

[mayabong]

Originally Posted by POed-poster

What a fucking moron you are. You are a typical conservative ass-wipe, dissing what you will never understand.

Can you please point me to a single post you have made about this business? All you ever do is ridicule it. There used to be a rule on GFY that people who not adult webmasters get banned. You serve no purpose to this forum. You are nothing but an annoying troll.

You guys shouldn't argue about anything, yall have something in common, you believe that angry terrorists guided by a guy in a cave from a laptop and cellphone (with at&t) created sept 11. You should join forces and go after the evil truffers.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I can understand what you are saying... I find that is it quite common for them to contradict themselves constantly... the reason is that they aren't arguing based on logic but rather on feeling... how they feel about the subject... so they trip over the logic arguing to defend their indefensible position as someone who believes in magic.

This is hilariously strange seeing as how liberals are the one credited with arguing emotionally rather than logically, and constantly contradicting themselves, but that's what you get from both sides of the coin who think they're objective and right.

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by marcop

Funny... I was hanging out with Jesus in LA, just a few days ago:

funny shit

[marcop]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Wow, I guess your ability to sense sarcasm is as hilarious as your interpretations. I'll use your logic though seeing as how you're too stupid to see the irony and hypocrisy of your statements. Are those "wacko conservatives", truly wacko conservatives, or are they "wacko conservatives" because they don't agree with your wacko liberal mindset? Hmmm maybe you should stay out of big boy conversations until you get your thoughts in order.

Like I said, willfully ignorant. And bullies.