Democrats Want Biometric ID Cards

[IllTestYourGirls]

http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/30/you-better-believe

The national ID program would be titled the BELIEVE System, [Biometric Enrollment, Locally-stored Information, and Electronic Verification of Employment]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/201...uffpost/557721

It would create a national ID -- which is dubbed a "biometric social security card." Though Democrats insist that it is not an ID card and can only be used for employment purposes.

[Amputate Your Head]

I will not be taking part in that.

[spazlabz]

Revelations Chapter 13 is coming true, if ya live by the oceans check for dragons mmmkay LOL

for reference only

“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Revelation 13:16-17

[sperbonzo]

"It would create a national ID -- which is dubbed a "biometric social security card." Though Democrats insist that it is not an ID card and can only be used for employment purposes."


...Just like the Social Security number was supposed to simply be about your social security account, and nothing to do with ID....



.

[IllTestYourGirls]

My question is since we are self-employed would we need to get one?

[MaDalton]

why not when your "patriot act" demands biometric passports from the rest of the world

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

why not when your "patriot act" demands biometric passports from the rest of the world

2 wrongs make a right?

[Tom_PM]

How many democrats want it. 2 or 3? Besides, who cares what they want. Whats a better idea?

Mine is to set up kiosks and roadside tents to let any illegal immigrant currently undocumented to get legal documents for a pre-determined period of time. (1yr?) After which time those who dont get them are presumed to be willfully acting illegally and face deportation procedures.

How do you find out who has a legal residency or not? Beats the hell out of me. What are some other ideas?

[D Ghost]

The national ID program would be titled the BELIEVE System, [Biometric Enrollment, Locally-stored Information, and Electronic Verification of Employment]

Heh. I love these acronyms and abbreviations that come up with. "BELIEVE" - wow. I swear that the words "Biometric Enrollment, Locally-stored Information, and Electronic Verification of Employment" - were chosen for the sole purpose of being able to spell BELIEVE in the acronym.

Bunch of propaganda.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

How do you find out who has a legal residency or not? Beats the hell out of me. What are some other ideas?

Simple. A driver's license, current electric bill, lease agreement, etc.
Banks ask for this type of stuff all the time to prove residency.

[Martin]

Police State 4: The Rise of FEMA

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Klqv9t1zVww

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Simple. A driver's license, current electric bill, lease agreement, etc.
Banks ask for this type of stuff all the time to prove residency.

It was easier to register to vote than get a bank account. I think there is something wrong with that lol.

[GatorB]

You guys quit bitching about illegals then bitch about the solutions.

[seeandsee]

people fucked

[nation-x]

Umm... exactly what would be wrong with this?

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by GatorB

You guys quit bitching about illegals then bitch about the solutions.

How is this a solution?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

How many democrats want it. 2 or 3? Besides, who cares what they want. Whats a better idea?

Mine is to set up kiosks and roadside tents to let any illegal immigrant currently undocumented to get legal documents for a pre-determined period of time. (1yr?) After which time those who dont get them are presumed to be willfully acting illegally and face deportation procedures.

How do you find out who has a legal residency or not? Beats the hell out of me. What are some other ideas?

SO you want to make them legal as soon as they cross the border illegally?

[weekly]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

SO you want to make them legal as soon as they cross the border illegally?

Cool, I when that happens, I will just jump across the border and add another citizenship and passport to collection. Then I can live and work anywhere in Europe or the top end of North America. Do I have to learn Spanish to qualify?

[mayabong]

You say this a few days ago and people label you "conspiracy theorists". This has been in the works for years. They just need a good excuse to push it through.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by weekly

Cool, I when that happens, I will just jump across the border and add another citizenship and passport to collection. Then I can live and work anywhere in Europe or the top end of North America. Do I have to learn Spanish to qualify?

Most of them speak english, they just don't admit to it so they can get an interpreter

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

How is this a solution?

Well obviously if you don't have the card you aren't American.

Anyways I mean if you really want to stop illegals crossing the border then close some of those bases in Europe and take those troops put them 100 yards apart on the border and have them shoot to kill anyone that tries to cross. But you know that solution won't fly, but it would work.

[Tom_PM]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

SO you want to make them legal as soon as they cross the border illegally?

I want other peoples ideas instead of constantly saying everyone elses ideas suck. Thats what I want! lol

But what I'm referring to is commonly known as amnesty. Like the IRS does occasionally, and what Ronald Reagan proposed I think. WHEN do you say Ok STOP. From NOW on, you go to jail. I mean seriously. What do you do with the 12 million or so currently illegal aliens in the united states? I say give them a chance to sign up, pass test, become citizens.
I'm not saying allow a flood of new illegals, but hey maybe thats the way to go. Sign up as many people onto the tax-roll as possible. Mo' money for the US.

But there needs to be some end to the current system of do nothing but complain that something needs to be done. Thats the cycle we've been in for what seems like 20 yrs.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Well obviously if you don't have the card you aren't American.

So people who hire illegals to work in their farms now will suddenly not hire them?

So you are fine with legal citizens forced to show their papers but are you ok with illegals, after commit a crime or violation, not having to prove they are here legally?

[weekly]

Cut off the money. Heavily fine and/or jail the employers. Problem solved

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

"It would create a national ID -- which is dubbed a "biometric social security card." Though Democrats insist that it is not an ID card and can only be used for employment purposes."


...Just like the Social Security number was supposed to simply be about your social security account, and nothing to do with ID....



.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm just going to add that cracking down on giving gainful employment to illegals who want to work . . . but still extending American medical and social services to illegals is kinda not addressing anything useful.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I want other peoples ideas instead of constantly saying everyone elses ideas suck. Thats what I want! lol

But what I'm referring to is commonly known as amnesty. Like the IRS does occasionally, and what Ronald Reagan proposed I think. WHEN do you say OK STOP. From NOW on, you go to jail. I mean seriously. What do you do with the 12 million or so currently illegal aliens in the united states? I say give them a chance to sign up, pass test, become citizens.
I'm not saying allow a flood of new illegals, but hey maybe that's the way to go. Sign up as many people onto the tax-roll as possible. Mo' money for the US.

But there needs to be some end to the current system of do nothing but complain that something needs to be done. That's the cycle we've been in for what seems like 20 yrs.

OK, that's easy, use what Ronald Reagan Proposed and go after the employers of illegal aliens, then cut off all social assistance to illegal aliens. Then secure the border. You have to take off your shoes and have your underwear checked to fly into the country and show papers, lets make it the same walking or driving across the border?
Then every time a person is suspected of being an illegal alien during a routine police stop and they can't prove citizenship, ship them to Mexico.
Have armed troops along the border in military exercises, the terrain is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, so what better place to train.

This cycle has been going on for far longer than 20 years

And as far as more money for the US, you need to do a little research, right now, "anchor Babies" of about 750,000 a year are being born in US hospitals. At about $10k a birth for normal deliveries and more for complications, you're looking at 10 Billion dollars a year, then they can get on welfare with that kid, so they have more babies. You want a healthcare system that we can afford, stop this!
Look at the Jail system in Arizona, find out how many illegal aliens are in the local jails and prisons. They are already here illegally, what stops them from doing more things illegally?

As far as I look at it, it's like we are being invaded by Mexico and the government won't do anything for political correctness

[Tom_PM]

Well, I dont disagree with having a regulated border and all that stuff at all. I also agree that federal (senate, congress, white house) have not taken it on because there's an election every 2 years and nobody wants to "be on the wrong side" of anything because they're self serving babies.

I know at some point there will be speedier process to admit new immigrants, because there's really no realistic alternative. Building a wall is just a creepy idea. People need to want to become legal, and businesses need to know hiring illegals means serious crushing fines and penalties. I'm sick of the excuse that americans wont do jobs. Stop paying them to sit on their fat asses on welfare and they'll do the job or die of starvation.

It's one of those things though that is going to be a process that takes time. I dont buy into the instant fear of the arizona law that the left keeps playing up, any more than I bought into the rights cries of grandma dying from healthcare reform.

Someone who is a lawmaker needs to write some proposals and bills thats all.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

As far as I look at it, it's like we are being invaded by Mexico and the government won't do anything for political correctness

It's a little more than simple political correctness.
While you may feel we are being invaded, we are not.
Those people are not military soldiers and we are not at war with Mexico. Start picking off Mexicans at the border for sport and Mexico may have a problem with that.

The reason it's been going on for so long is obvious: It's a complex problem that no one has solved yet. I don't believe the solution is as simple as to just waive 'political correctness' and stomp all over everyone's rights in a futile effort to round up millions of illegals.

[NetHorse]

Next is RFID chip implants. Oh don't worry, it's just to store your medical records god forbid something happened to you and you were in a coma.

[ReGGs]

I don't understand why people here who support the "show me your papers" law don't support Bio ID cards. This way you wouldn't have to carry your birth certificate around wherever you go to prove citizenship(of course if you are caucasian you probably don't have to worry about it). I guess it's only a bad idea when the democrats propose it.

[PornMD]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Revelations Chapter 13 is coming true, if ya live by the oceans check for dragons mmmkay LOL

for reference only

That's precisely what came to mind.

[Amputate Your Head]

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to maintain a national central database of the population, which is what a National ID Card of any kind would do. This is the reason their last attempt at it with REAL ID failed miserably. The states mostly told the federal gov to fuck themselves.

There are already RFID chips in US Passports.

The US Passport is the ultimate form of ID. Even in places that require 2 forms of ID for something, you pull out a US Passport and you're golden. This should be the defacto ID requirement. You can't go anywhere outside of the country without one any more. They could place restrictions on those people they won't allow to leave the country for whatever reason.

Simple, effective, and uses a perfectly good system that's already in place. Require every US citizen to obtain a US Passport as their official ID. End of fucking story.

But for whatever reason, they won't do it. They cook up these hairbrained ideas to get as much info stored on people as they can, which is why it keeps failing.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to maintain a national central database of the population, which is what a National ID Card of any kind would do. This is the reason their last attempt at it with REAL ID failed miserably. The states mostly told the federal gov to fuck themselves.

There are already RFID chips in US Passports.

The US Passport is the ultimate form of ID. Even in places that require 2 forms of ID for something, you pull out a US Passport and you're golden. This should be the defacto ID requirement. You can't go anywhere outside of the country without one any more. They could place restrictions on those people they won't allow to leave the country for whatever reason.

Simple, effective, and uses a perfectly good system that's already in place. Require every US citizen to obtain a US Passport as their official ID. End of fucking story.

But for whatever reason, they won't do it. They cook up these hairbrained ideas to get as much info stored on people as they can, which is why it keeps failing.

that would take a while to do, wouldn't it?

[kane]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

How many democrats want it. 2 or 3? Besides, who cares what they want. Whats a better idea?

Mine is to set up kiosks and roadside tents to let any illegal immigrant currently undocumented to get legal documents for a pre-determined period of time. (1yr?) After which time those who dont get them are presumed to be willfully acting illegally and face deportation procedures.

How do you find out who has a legal residency or not? Beats the hell out of me. What are some other ideas?

This is my idea of a reasonable way to start:

1. Secure the borders. We have been talking about this for decades now it is time to do this. Build a fence and put military personal on it. You could easily make it that every new military recruit had to stand guard on the border for 3-6 months as part of their enlistment or you could create an MOS that was a border guard.

2. Go after those people who knowingly hire illegals. Many companies have accidentally hired an illegal or two and not known it. They shouldn't be the targets. The targets should be places that hire them by the truckload and pay them in cash. If you start to cut the number of jobs these people can get, they will have less desire to come here.

3. Give the police the authority to enforce the existing laws. We don't need a bunch of new laws, there are plenty on the books already. Give every cop in the country the ability to detain someone who is illegal. What I mean by this is if a cop pulls someone over for a traffic stop or goes to their house on a call and this person has no ID and the cop thinks they are illegal, they should be allowed to detain them determine if they are illegal. If they are, then they should be deported. Right now in most places the cops can do nothing about people they know are illegal.

4. We have to do something about those who are already here. It is not reasonable to think that we can round up somewhere between 20-35 million people and send them back to where they came. We just don't have the manpower or money to do that. But we can offer them a deal. Allow them to come forward and we can come to some kind of an agreement. If they don't have a criminal record and they provide us with a plan of how they wish to become a citizen and contribute to our society then I think we should lay out a path for them to make that happen. If they have a criminal record or don't have a clear cut idea of what they can do for us, we kick them out. Those who are good people just trying to better their lives will come forward and it can help us weed out the less desirable.


5. We have to do something about Mexico. the reason so many people are crossing the borders is because that country is in a downward spiral of violence, corruption and poverty. If we can help to stabilize Mexico and make it a more desirable place to live we will cut down on the number of people who are trying to sneak into the country from there.

Just a few thoughts.

[leedsfan]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Umm... exactly what would be wrong with this?

so you're totally cool with your government knowing your every move, all the time? Frankly if you carry your cell phone around they do anyway but this is pretty much police state in action. Why would the government need to know your every action?

Surveillance = knowledge
Knowledge = Power
Power = Control.

you get the rest. Actually you don't seem to get it at all.

It's probably called "Believe" because most people simply believe what is told to them without questioning it...

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

that would take a while to do, wouldn't it?

Well since it's a system that's already in place, wouldn't it take much less time to implement than coming up with yet another stupid national ID card idea that would have to start at ground zero?

I mean, let's just say they decided bang! Today is the day REAL ID goes into effect.
That system does not exist. How long and at what expense will that take to get implemented? How exactly are they going to accomplish that? Start arresting people that refuse to get one? They expected the states to foot the bill for getting that job done. The states said no. They were supposed to link it up with the DMVs and have them be responsible to making sure every single person was issued one. The DMVs told them to fuck off too.

If they just want everyone to have a standardized US ID, then the US Passport is perfect. It already exists. It's accepted all over the planet, already. It doesn't store too much information about you. So, why not use what we already have, and focus on how to get the rest of the public to get one, rather than dicking around with cheesy acronyms like BELIEVE and shit. I don't have the answer on how to do that, but at least we don't need spend time & money reinventing what already exists.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by ReGGs

I don't understand why people here who support the "show me your papers" law don't support Bio ID cards. This way you wouldn't have to carry your birth certificate around wherever you go to prove citizenship(of course if you are caucasian you probably don't have to worry about it). I guess it's only a bad idea when the democrats propose it.

I don't mind someone who commits a crime having to show their papers, or people who visit our country. I do mind law abiding citizens having to show their papers.

Actually I find it ironic that the dems introduced bills to kill the Real ID but now they are in power and asking for it.....

I was against it then, I am against it now.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Well since it's a system that's already in place, wouldn't it take much less time to implement than coming up with yet another stupid national ID card idea that would have to start at ground zero?

I mean, let's just say they decided bang! Today is the day REAL ID goes into effect.
That system does not exist. How long and at what expense will that take to get implemented? How exactly are they going to accomplish that? Start arresting people that refuse to get one? They expected the states to foot the bill for getting that job done. The states said no. They were supposed to link it up with the DMVs and have them be responsible to making sure every single person was issued one. The DMVs told them to fuck off too.

If they just want everyone to have a standardized US ID, then the US Passport is perfect. It already exists. It's accepted all over the planet, already. It doesn't store too much information about you. So, why not use what we already have, and focus on how to get the rest of the public to get one, rather than dicking around with cheesy acronyms like BELIEVE and shit. I don't have the answer on how to do that, but at least we don't need spend time & money reinventing what already exists.

I could see replaceing Drivers Licenses and State ID cards with Passports, then work on the schools, still would take at least 5 years to do

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I could see replaceing Drivers Licenses and State ID cards with Passports, then work on the schools, still would take at least 5 years to do

Yeah, it wouldn't be an instant thing, but nothing else will be either. And the Passport is already what they want to see when you enter the country through customs. Modify them slightly to restrict or allow international travel and driving privileges, and start crankin' them out. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

So people who hire illegals to work in their farms now will suddenly not hire them?

So you are fine with legal citizens forced to show their papers but are you ok with illegals, after commit a crime or violation, not having to prove they are here legally?

Did I say that? Nope.

[czarina]

I thought this would happen under Bush's regime. I guess I was wrong about Obama all along!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Did I say that? Nope.

Thats why I asked

[Nodtveidt]

This idea would never fly. All it would do, even if such a farfetched idea was to ever pass, would be to identify law-abiding citizens. Identity theft might become slightly more difficult...maybe...but this isn't the purpose of this system, it just might end up being a convenient side-effect. It's similar in concept to trying to get rid of handguns...only law-abiding citizens would do it, and criminals would simply see a freshly disarmed populace.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

...Just like the Social Security number was supposed to simply be about your social security account, and nothing to do with ID....



.

It is not ID.

[the Shemp]

the US always likes to go hi-tech...much cheaper to brand the id# on your arm or forehead...

[Evil1]

I hope if these things have rfid's that the rfid doesn't get damaged when i accidentally microwave the damn thing for 5 minutes... accidentally

[LoveSandra]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

I will not be taking part in that.