Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%

[DavieVegas]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Newly released data from the IRS clearly debunks the conventional Beltway rhetoric that the "rich" are not paying their fair share of taxes.

Indeed, the IRS data shows that in 2007?the most recent data available?the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government. This is the highest percentage in modern history. By contrast, the top 1 percent paid 24.8 percent of the income tax burden in 1987, the year following the 1986 tax reform act.

Remarkably, the share of the tax burden borne by the top 1 percent now exceeds the share paid by the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers combined. In 2007, the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden. This is down from the 58 percent of the total income tax burden they paid twenty years ago.

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.

Some in Washington say the tax system is still not progressive enough. However, the recent IRS data bolsters the findings of an OECD study released last year showing that the U.S.?not France or Sweden?has the most progressive income tax system among OECD nations. We rely more heavily on the top 10 percent of taxpayers than does any nation and our poor people have the lowest tax burden of those in any nation.

We are definitely overdue for some honesty in the debate over the progressivity of the nation's tax burden before lawmakers enact any new taxes to pay for expanded health care.

[rabbit]

with all that gov. debt coming due, you'll be happy when you remember today's tax rates

[TheDoc]

I always thought the top 1% paid the biggest chunk of taxes... I also thought the debate was over if taxing the rich more helped or not or if giving them tax cuts helped or not, not if they paid more or not.

[Titan]

Progressive taxes are actually harmful because they de-motivate people to make more money

[CamJack]

I like the flat tax 15%

[Shoplifter]

Well of course they do if they are making more than 95% of the rest.

Talk about using stats to be dramatic..

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA

I like the flat tax 15%

Here here... Flat tax would fucking rock! Abolish the income tax!

[Coup]

flat tax is the most insidious thing ever. and fuck you idiots for thinking it's a good idea

[mountainmiester]

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA

I like the flat tax 15%

Ditto, it's very fair while at the same time reduced the loops holes that are found at the higher levels of income.

One wonders at what point will we see, if we already aren't, funds being moved to off shore banks or businesses moving to more tax friendly countries.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Coup

flat tax is the most insidious thing ever. and fuck you idiots for thinking it's a good idea

Much like your posts, but your posts have a twist of lame troll added in.

[BFT3K]

Cue the demon in 3... 2... 1...

[NetHorse]

It's only going to get worse and soon it won't only be the top 1%. Someone has to fund all the ridiculous entitlement programs under the current administration.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Much like your posts, but your posts have a twist of lame troll added in.

[sortie]

How many poor people asked for government help to keep Somali pirates from
taking their shit?

How many poor people had to be rescued from their "around the world sailing trip"?

How many poor people pollute the air with their private jets?

How many poor people run restaurants that create 3 tons of garbage a week?

Etc....


They pay because they use.

Resources : fucking pay for it you land hogging, pile of garbage making, black smoke
blowing, semi-truck highway hogging, water wasting swimming pool, H2 hummer driving,
eco-system destroying motherfuckers.

[mynameisjim]

Looks like the political trolls in the media have found good traction lately by talking about taxes.

Don't expect any honest debate on the issue until the trolls have moved on to their next target. Until then just spin the numbers back and forth to say whatever you want.

[BFT3K]

Taxes will be going up across the board. It is inevitable.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by sortie

How many poor people asked for government help to keep Somali pirates from
taking their shit?

How many poor people had to be rescued from their "around the world sailing trip"?

How many poor people pollute the air with their private jets?

How many poor people run restaurants that create 3 tons of garbage a week?

Etc....


They pay because they use.

Resources : fucking pay for it you land hogging, pile of garbage making, black smoke
blowing, semi-truck highway hogging, water wasting swimming pool, H2 hummer driving,
eco-system destroying motherfuckers.

How many poor people employ others?

How many poor people build hospitals?

How many poor people build schools?

Taxes pay for all the things that poor people need, so your arguement is well, full of shit

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Coup

flat tax is the most insidious thing ever.

Why is that?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Taxes will be going up across the board. It is inevitable.

thats an understatement, with all the money spent to improve the economy that missed the mark, that money has to come from somewhere and taxes is where it comes from

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Titan

Progressive taxes are actually harmful because they de-motivate people to make more money

I was once interviewing a guy for a job, the job paid cash. He had a full-time job working at a state mental institution and made pretty good money. Nothing major, but pretty good money. He told me that he wanted to get a secondary part time job to put together more money to put his kids through college but his accountant told him that if he did, his tax rate would go up and it would actually cost him money to work a part-time job. Hence his interest in cash only jobs.

Nobody should be punished for wanting to earn extra money.

[seeandsee]

universal tax should be pooled, we all pay the same

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

How many poor people employ others?

How many poor people build hospitals?

How many poor people build schools?

Taxes pay for all the things that poor people need, so your arguement is well, full of shit

Trickle down economics has never worked... it is a load of shit, and if you are in the top 1% or 2% of the wealthiest Americans, you can easily pay the same tax rate that was the case under Reagan.

[Naechy]

de motivation is shit

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Sly

I was once interviewing a guy for a job, the job paid cash. He had a full-time job working at a state mental institution and made pretty good money. Nothing major, but pretty good money. He told me that he wanted to get a secondary part time job to put together more money to put his kids through college but his accountant told him that if he did, his tax rate would go up and it would actually cost him money to work a part-time job. Hence his interest in cash only jobs.

Nobody should be punished for wanting to earn extra money.

If I make $50,000 a year and I have to pay 30% in taxes, or I can make $1,000,000 per year, and pay 40% instead, guess which option I will choose?

Don't worry, the rich will always be rich...

[mynameisjim]

Isn't the REAL story there how huge the income gap has opened up between the super rich and everybody else?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

If I make $50,000 a year and I have to pay 30% in taxes, or I can make $1,000,000 per year, and pay 40% instead, guess which option I will choose?

Don't worry, the rich will always be rich...

My story wasn't about being rich. It was about the common everyday Joe trying to make a little extra money and being punished for doing so.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Titan

Progressive taxes are actually harmful because they de-motivate people to make more money

I have heard this before yet have never seen proof of it. There are more wealthy people in this country today than ever before. Those who are rich are richer than they have ever been.

While the average worker in this country has seen their wages go up at about 1% per year, those in the top 5% have seen their net worth increase by over 300%.

I'm not saying it is right or fair to tax the rich. they worked for their money and shouldn't be forced to shoulder all of the tax burden, but I just don't buy the story of higher taxes de-motivating people to make money.

Look at it like this. Say you have a guy making 750K per year. He sees that the tax rate is going to go up another 10% so he is going to have pay an additional 75K per year in taxes. It is understandable that he is not happy about this. Do you really think he is just going to stop working so that he can get down do around 150K per year in income to avoid those taxes?

At 750K per year with that increase he would pay 45% to feds leaving him 412K
At 150K per year it would put him in the 28% bracket leaving him 108K

so he is going to take a 304K per year pay cut to avoid paying extra taxes? I'm not buying it. Would you take that kind of cut?

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by kane

I have heard this before yet have never seen proof of it. There are more wealthy people in this country today than ever before. Those who are rich are richer than they have ever been.

While the average worker in this country has seen their wages go up at about 1% per year, those in the top 5% have seen their net worth increase by over 300%.

I'm not saying it is right or fair to tax the rich. they worked for their money and shouldn't be forced to shoulder all of the tax burden, but I just don't buy the story of higher taxes de-motivating people to make money.

Look at it like this. Say you have a guy making 750K per year. He sees that the tax rate is going to go up another 10% so he is going to have pay an additional 75K per year in taxes. It is understandable that he is not happy about this. Do you really think he is just going to stop working so that he can get down do around 150K per year in income to avoid those taxes?

At 750K per year with that increase he would pay 45% to feds leaving him 412K
At 150K per year it would put him in the 28% bracket leaving him 108K

so he is going to take a 304K per year pay cut to avoid paying extra taxes? I'm not buying it. Would you take that kind of cut?

If anything it's the opposite. They work harder to pay the increased taxes and then make even more. The wealthy are wealthy for a reason. And unfortunately the poor are poor for a reason. Lazyness is rampant in this country (world).

[kane]

Originally Posted by Atticus

If anything it's the opposite. They work harder to pay the increased taxes and then make even more. The wealthy are wealthy for a reason. And unfortunately the poor are poor for a reason. Lazyness is rampant in this country (world).

There is a lot of truth to this. People who are rich and earned that money themselves are Type A people. They are hyper-competitive and often see the money as more of a scorecard than anything else. These are the type of people who would work hard to succeed no matter what the tax rate was. And many of those who are poor don't have that drive and they have no education on how to handle money or make money work for them.

A good example is Mark Cuban. I read his blog all the time. He has billions, but says he spends all day every day thinking about business. Even when he is trying to relax and watch TV or a movie he says he starts thinking of ways he could use the movie, a situation in the movie, or something around him to make money. For example he said that he was watching The Apprentice and in that episode the people were going out and buying magazines and food from newsstands and carts in New York. He found himself wondering why someone doesn't start a business selling advertising on the people that work at these places. He could pay each one to wear a shirt that advertised something. If you got a ton of newsstands and carts you could get some nice coverage.

[IllTestYourGirls]

The only fair income tax is no tax.

[kane]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

The only fair income tax is no tax.

Well said.

[BV]

i'd prefer a federal sales tax

that way you only pay tax on what you spend

[brentbacardi]

Three things!

1. Our country survived without an income tax for many years. Its not a necessity to run government. Some states still do not have income tax yet still manage to have state governments and programs.

2. Any high taxes imposed on anyone makes incentives for people and companies to MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY lol. I personally know a few small business owners from NY who just closed there businesses to reopen in states with lower state taxes. And I forget the company but I just read of a company that closed up in the USA to open in Mexico. WOW!

3. The real solution...... a step ladder progressive tax, with no deductions! I wrote this as a paper in a college class and madd profs gave me props! I did a lot of math with it (which i dont remember and will not redo lol) but basically, the lowest earning idk below maybe 20,000 or 30,000 with dependents or so pay ZERO taxes.

The next level of earners pays like 15% and the next level like 20%, no deductions and stricter write offs THUS, almost any business or person would not need to pay for tax accountants etc thus making their overall tax experience cheaper as well for those that use them.

Math wise, it worked out to about the same as what we collect in taxes now and for many they would pay about the same. Except those getting tons of deductions but then they wouldnt need to hire an accountant to get them all those deductions.

Its not perfect but way better AND realistic than anything I have ever heard on the subject.

Just a thought... lol

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

Three things!

1. Our country survived without an income tax for many years. Its not a necessity to run government. Some states still do not have income tax yet still manage to have state governments and programs.

2. Any high taxes imposed on anyone makes incentives for people and companies to MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY lol. I personally know a few small business owners from NY who just closed there businesses to reopen in states with lower state taxes. And I forget the company but I just read of a company that closed up in the USA to open in Mexico. WOW!

3. The real solution...... a step ladder progressive tax, with no deductions! I wrote this as a paper in a college class and madd profs gave me props! I did a lot of math with it (which i dont remember and will not redo lol) but basically, the lowest earning idk below maybe 20,000 or 30,000 with dependents or so pay ZERO taxes.

The next level of earners pays like 15% and the next level like 20%, no deductions and stricter write offs THUS, almost any business or person would not need to pay for tax accountants etc thus making their overall tax experience cheaper as well for those that use them.

Math wise, it worked out to about the same as what we collect in taxes now and for many they would pay about the same. Except those getting tons of deductions but then they wouldnt need to hire an accountant to get them all those deductions.

Its not perfect but way better AND realistic than anything I have ever heard on the subject.

Just a thought... lol

You forgot the part in your paper where it would kill the economy?

[brentbacardi]

Sorry to anyone who is a tax accountant or is related to one (that they like) but it really is a bullshit job. Why should you have to pay someone to help you with your taxes? It really should be simple math shouldn't it?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

Sorry to anyone who is a tax accountant or is related to one (that they like) but it really is a bullshit job. Why should you have to pay someone to help you with your taxes? It really should be simple math shouldn't it?

Hey, since madd profs gave you props... I'm totally with you.

[Titan]

It doesn't really apply to people who make big money already. If you make 750k u are in the top 1% already. Its for people who make an average salary of say 45k a year and are looking to go up. Any money you make above that amount has a very steep tax rate. Why work harder when the government will just take 40% of any extra money you make when you can be lazy and only get taxed 10%?

Originally Posted by kane

I have heard this before yet have never seen proof of it. There are more wealthy people in this country today than ever before. Those who are rich are richer than they have ever been.

While the average worker in this country has seen their wages go up at about 1% per year, those in the top 5% have seen their net worth increase by over 300%.

I'm not saying it is right or fair to tax the rich. they worked for their money and shouldn't be forced to shoulder all of the tax burden, but I just don't buy the story of higher taxes de-motivating people to make money.

Look at it like this. Say you have a guy making 750K per year. He sees that the tax rate is going to go up another 10% so he is going to have pay an additional 75K per year in taxes. It is understandable that he is not happy about this. Do you really think he is just going to stop working so that he can get down do around 150K per year in income to avoid those taxes?

At 750K per year with that increase he would pay 45% to feds leaving him 412K
At 150K per year it would put him in the 28% bracket leaving him 108K

so he is going to take a 304K per year pay cut to avoid paying extra taxes? I'm not buying it. Would you take that kind of cut?

[theking]

Originally Posted by DavieVegas

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Newly released data from the IRS clearly debunks the conventional Beltway rhetoric that the "rich" are not paying their fair share of taxes.

Indeed, the IRS data shows that in 2007?the most recent data available?the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government. This is the highest percentage in modern history. By contrast, the top 1 percent paid 24.8 percent of the income tax burden in 1987, the year following the 1986 tax reform act.

Remarkably, the share of the tax burden borne by the top 1 percent now exceeds the share paid by the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers combined. In 2007, the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden. This is down from the 58 percent of the total income tax burden they paid twenty years ago.

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.

Some in Washington say the tax system is still not progressive enough. However, the recent IRS data bolsters the findings of an OECD study released last year showing that the U.S.?not France or Sweden?has the most progressive income tax system among OECD nations. We rely more heavily on the top 10 percent of taxpayers than does any nation and our poor people have the lowest tax burden of those in any nation.

We are definitely overdue for some honesty in the debate over the progressivity of the nation's tax burden before lawmakers enact any new taxes to pay for expanded health care.

What is the top rate that one is now taxed...36% is it...which is down from the 92% that it was when JFK became President and that Nixon reduced down and Reagan reduced down even more and Bush reduced down to the current level.

All that report means is there are more wealthy people than ever and wealthier people than ever.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

Sorry to anyone who is a tax accountant or is related to one (that they like) but it really is a bullshit job. Why should you have to pay someone to help you with your taxes? It really should be simple math shouldn't it?

Yeah it should be. 0% of X is what?

[Titan]

They have done studies that show when you lower the rate on the highest tax bracket it improves the economy.

[mynameisjim]

The wealthy pay roughly half the taxes they paid in the 1950's. It's just that their income has risen so fast relative to the middle class that even with their effective tax rate cut in half, they pay more than everyone else combined now.

This isn't a tax issue, it's an issue where the wealthy are running away with all the money while middle class wages are falling.

[brentbacardi]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Yeah it should be. 0% of X is what?

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

1. Our country survived without an income tax for many years. Its not a necessity to run government. Some states still do not have income tax yet still manage to have state governments and programs.

I am with 0% but obviously thats not a realistic goal in the near future seeing how much we owe right now, somebody has got to pay it....... although I think Bush and Obama should split the tab HA!

[kane]

Originally Posted by Titan

It doesn't really apply to people who make big money already. If you make 750k u are in the top 1% already. Its for people who make an average salary of say 45k a year and are looking to go up. Any money you make above that amount has a very steep tax rate. Why work harder when the government will just take 40% of any extra money you make when you can be lazy and only get taxed 10%?

There is some truth to that. If the choice it to work how you are now and make a decent living or work twice as hard but not see much more of a gain from it then you may choose to not work that extra and instead spend that time with your friends and family.

But a person could also spend that extra time working on their own side business and work towards making a lot more than just a small increase.

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by Titan

It doesn't really apply to people who make big money already. If you make 750k u are in the top 1% already. Its for people who make an average salary of say 45k a year and are looking to go up. Any money you make above that amount has a very steep tax rate. Why work harder when the government will just take 40% of any extra money you make when you can be lazy and only get taxed 10%?

Because it is a tiered tax system and doesnt jump from 10 to 40%. For simplicity sake we'll use real basic numbers. Say you make $50k and 0-$25k is taxed at 10% and $26k to $50k is taxed at 20%. So far you've paid $7500 in taxes. If the next $25k ($51k to $75k) of earnings rises to 30% instead of the 20% the $26k to $50k in earnings were taxed you're paying an additional $2500 in tax ($7500 versus $5000).

So if someone decides there not going to work anymore (but have the ability and time) to make $25k more in earnings and pocket an additional $17500 after tax just because the tax rate went up an additional 10% for that tier they're either an idiot or lazy.

A tiered system might not be fair but to use it as an excuse to not work is ridiculous.

[Titan]

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/M...lTaxRates.html

some quotes:

Numerous studies, ably surveyed by Karabegovic et. al. (2004), have found that high marginal tax rates reduce people?s willingness to work up to their potential, to take entrepreneurial risks, and to create and expand a new business: ?The evidence from economic research indicates that ... high and increasing marginal taxes have serious negative consequences on economic growth, labor supply, and capital formation? (p. 15).


Political authorities saw that other national governments fared better by having tax collectors claim a medium share of a rapidly growing economy (a low marginal tax) rather than trying to extract a large share of a stagnant economy (a high average tax). East Asia, Ireland, Russia, and India are a few of the economies that began expanding impressively after their governments sharply reduced marginal tax rates.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

The wealthy pay roughly half the taxes they paid in the 1950's. It's just that their income has risen so fast relative to the middle class that even with their effective tax rate cut in half, they pay more than everyone else combined now.

This isn't a tax issue, it's an issue where the wealthy are running away with all the money while middle class wages are falling.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Atticus

Because it is a tiered tax system and doesnt jump from 10 to 40%. For simplicity sake we'll use real basic numbers. Say you make $50k and 0-$25k is taxed at 10% and $26k to $50k is taxed at 20%. So far you've paid $7500 in taxes. If the next $25k ($51k to $75k) of earnings rises to 30% instead of the 20% the $26k to $50k in earnings were taxed you're paying an additional $2500 in tax ($7500 versus $5000).

So if someone decides there not going to work anymore (but have the ability and time) to make $25k more in earnings and pocket an additional $17500 after tax just because the tax rate went up an additional 10% for that tier they're either an idiot or lazy.

A tiered system might not be fair but to use it as an excuse to not work is ridiculous.

[arock10]

the top 1% also make a fuck ton and have a fuck ton more money then the bottom 95%

[Relentless]

There are two simple solutions and one reason why neither will ever happen.

Either... go to a flat tax of 15% with a 50K exclusion for everyone. Meaning if you make less than 50K you pay 0, if you make more than 50K you pay 15% Income beyond that free 50K.

Or... go to a consumption based tax that sets rates on each item you buy like a sales tax and get rid of income taxes entirely.

We will not have either of those solutions because we have a 67,000 page tax code (literally). Thats 67K pages of loopholes which keep tax lawyers and accountants in business and they spend billions every year protecting the status quo.

The idea that the top 1% pay more than the bottom 95% is horseshit by the way. The number that matters is as a percentage of what they earn - what did they pay. If you earned 100M and paid 1M in taxes you paid more taxes than all the people who are in poverty.... congrats, your tax rate is also still only 1%. Warren Buffet has paid more in taxes by himself than a good size percentage of the entire population. He is still trying his best to find a good way to give away 30-40 Billion dollars AFTER all the taxes he has paid. He is not crying about it either.

Also... the top 1% is a very misleading number because the top .5% of the top 1% earns more than the other .95% of the top 1% combined. So you are essentially whining mostly about the taxes that Buffet, Oprah, Bill Gates, Mike Bloomberg and the like paid.... and none of them are complaining.

[TheSenator]

The wealthy are a minority and we need to protect them.....call the Teabaggers!!!