What do you think of the US Soldier to be charged in the Attack Video leak ?

[JFK]

Is he right or wrong, in sharing this with the rest of the world ?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/06...-video/?hpt=T1

Yes, he has sworn allegiance to the Flag etc. but is there a grey area here ? The publics right to know ?

[beerptrol]

Right or wrong! It doesn't matter he's in the military and has to obey military laws/orders. The video was classified and he leaked it out

[Jman]

That's a pretty fucked up video, talk about not standing a chance at all

[Tom_PM]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

Right or wrong! It doesn't matter he's in the military and has to obey military laws/orders. The video was classified and he leaked it out

Imagine if it came out otherwise, and this soldier was asked why he didnt come forward with his proof and he said "I was just following orders". Would it fly, or no?

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Jean-Francois

That's a pretty fucked up video, talk about not standing a chance at all

yup, shooting fish in a barrel

[Odin]

Here is the irony.

A war is launched on phony pretenses with ulterior motives, 10's, 100's of thousands of civilians are killed, for at least one of these killings there is a video, and it is illegal for you to tell anyone about the potential crimes contained within it.

If it was not such a serious video, then sure, there would be ramifications, but where a crime has been committed, or reasonably thought to have been committed, it should *not be illegal to tell others about it. Why should the Government be immune from any responsibility for their lies and actions at their command? They shouldn't.

You do 70 in a 50 zone and you will see more punishment then someone who has initiated a phony war, and/or participated in the killing of innocent people. Doesn't sound like justice to me. Sounds like the powerful protecting themselves.

The amount of people arrested and charged for whistleblowing under Obama is huge, and much higher then any recent president before him. Obama has become one of the biggest bullshit Presidents yet. Anyone who does not see through his bullshit yet is blind.

[Coup]

I applaud his actions. Too bad america sucks and no one gives a shit about a clear cut war crime.

[beerptrol]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Imagine if it came out otherwise, and this soldier was asked why he didnt come forward with his proof and he said "I was just following orders". Would it fly, or no?

It's one thing to come forward to your superior officers, and another thing to leak it to the media

[Caligari]

sounds like a true patriot to me. US needs less sheeple and more people like this.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

It's one thing to come forward to your superior officers, and another thing to leak it to the media

You think his superiors didn't know? Hell, the Washington Post is said to have access to this video at least 1 year prior to Wikileaks breaking the story. Why didn't they cover it? Because they don't want to feel heat from Government. Hardly sounds like a free press of a free country. Sounds like something you'd expect in China no?

The Government, the military, etc wants to act with immunity. Anyone who feels that is a good thing is a sheep.

[2012]

if the public had a "right to know" we would of been out of there years ago - we're fucked who cares .... nuke it

[Jman]

Originally Posted by JFK

yup, shooting fish in a barrel

Yup and perfect title for this clip is "Death by stupidity"

[CYF]

Originally Posted by Chief

You think his superiors didn't know? Hell, the Washington Post is said to have access to this video at least 1 year prior to Wikileaks breaking the story. Why didn't they cover it? Because they don't want to feel heat from Government. Hardly sounds like a free press of a free country. Sounds like something you'd expect in China no?

The way I understood it, Reuters was TRYING to get access to the video via a FOIA request and were denied. AFAIK nobody had it before wikileaks released it.

[Tom_PM]

I was taught that the Nurnberg trials proved beyond all doubt that there are times when individuals have to circumvent normal channels in order to alert the people at large of injustice. I thought this was common knowledge.

[Hentaikid]

Dude should be given a medal, just like the guy who pointed his guns at the soldiers killing civilians at Mi Lay

(I don't think he got a medal either, just saying he should have)

[Odin]

Originally Posted by CYF

The way I understood it, Reuters was TRYING to get access to the video via a FOIA request and were denied. AFAIK nobody had it before wikileaks released it.

Well it depends who you choose to believe. Wikileaks states with 100% certainty that the Washington Post had it for at least a year.

http://www.cjr.org/the_kicker/wapo_d...ion_it_sat.php

Brief article relating to it. But wikileaks has made the claim several times, and each time very confidently - frankly I believe them.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by JFK

Is he right or wrong, in sharing this with the rest of the world ?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/06...-video/?hpt=T1

Yes, he has sworn allegiance to the Flag etc. but is there a grey area here ? The publics right to know ?

The public's right to know what though? The video shows a misunderstanding and the results of it.

Everything about it in April was written with the benefit of hindsight so unless they start fitting helicopter gunships with crystal balls every now and then there will be a mistake made.

Part of the reason for not leaking it is the negative propaganda in Iraq adversely affecting the soldiers and I expect he is actually more in trouble for that than for the putting stuff on his computer offence.

[Coup]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

The video shows a misunderstanding and the results of it.

"misunderstanding"

haha wow.

yes they misunderstood and gunned down unarmed people, gunned down people that stopped to help, then ran over bodies with a fucking tank.

then laughed about it.

those vicious animals should be tried for war crimes.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by JFK

What do you think of the US Soldier to be charged in the Attack Video leak ?

He should be publicly executed as warning for the next traitor.


Our society has degenerated to the point that someone in the military who commits treason during wartime is defended and praised by a portion of the population. A society that hates itself in this fashion cannot expect to survive long.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I was taught that the Nurnberg trials proved beyond all doubt that there are times when individuals have to circumvent normal channels in order to alert the people at large of injustice. I thought this was common knowledge.

Originally Posted by Hentaikid

Dude should be given a medal, just like the guy who pointed his guns at the soldiers killing civilians at Mi Lay

(I don't think he got a medal either, just saying he should have)

The UCMJ or Uniform Code of Military Justice covers his actions, he didn't follow them and can be punished for that. He doesn't get the privileges of a civilian.

End of Story

[2012]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

He should be publicly executed as warning for the next traitor.

Anderson Cooper does not approve

[2012]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The UCMJ or Uniform Code of Military Justice covers his actions, he didn't follow them and can be punished for that. He doesn't get the privileges of a civilian.

End of Story

he's putting the lives of other soldiers in harms way with this bullshit...

at least give him a pillow party

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by Coup

"misunderstanding"

haha wow.

yes they misunderstood and gunned down unarmed people, gunned down people that stopped to help, then ran over bodies with a fucking tank.

then laughed about it.

those vicious animals should be tried for war crimes.

War crime if it was intentional killing of unarmed people - which it wasn't.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

It doesn't matter he's in the military and has to obey military laws/orders.

Justice > laws/orders.

He did the right thing.

The MPs at Abu Ghraib were just following orders.
The SS officers in the concentration camps were just following orders.

?We must never forget that everything Hitler did was legal.? ~ Martin Luther King Jr.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The UCMJ or Uniform Code of Military Justice covers his actions, he didn't follow them and can be punished for that. He doesn't get the privileges of a civilian.

End of Story

I concur.

[theking]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

War crime if it was intentional killing of unarmed people - which it wasn't.

I concur.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Imagine if it came out otherwise, and this soldier was asked why he didnt come forward with his proof and he said "I was just following orders". Would it fly, or no?

That's what the Nazis did during the Nuremberg trials.

Sorry, if he had such a problem with what he saw on the videos, he should have reported them to his commanding officer. Instead this kid, all of twenty-two years old, decided he knew more than everyone else in the Army about what is classified material or not.

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by Coup

"misunderstanding"

haha wow.

yes they misunderstood and gunned down unarmed people, gunned down people that stopped to help, then ran over bodies with a fucking tank.

then laughed about it.

those vicious animals should be tried for war crimes.

I agree, that sucks and its not right. But who do you want fighting your battles? Tree huggers? flower pickers? Our solders are trained by our government to kill, not protect. Kill, Kill, Kill! Thats what they do and by the looks of it, they do it quite well. Do they make mistakes? Sure they do, they are human. But im guessing "Jesus" will forgive them if they except Jesus as their lord and personal savior or if they go to confession.lol,jk

What do you want guarding your house a 150lbs pitbull or the taco bell dog?

Think about it.





We voted these people in office to make the tough decisions on our behalf. As much as most of these decisions seem to suck as of late and for a while, it is our own fault as a "whole" for voting these people in or not voting at all.


Mistakes happen and war does suck, but until you walk a mile in these solders shoes or go to the front line with an M16, with enemies planting roadside bombs, and snipers constantly shooting at you, you really cant say if this is a true war crime or not.


I will agree with you, that what that video portrays, really does suck and is not right, but hindsight is always 20-20. Tough decisions need to be made and people do die as a resualt of these decisions, "possible innocent civilians" or our solders. Pic one, I do know both choices suck, but by not choosing both will die.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

We voted these people in office to make the tough decisions on our behalf. As much as most of these decisions seem to suck as of late and for a while, it is our own fault as a "whole" for voting these people in

what if you voted for another guy?

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

or not voting at all.

so if you don't agree with the choices the system offers you, it's still your own fault if some of the people you didn't vote for do something you don't approve of...?

[Jman]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

The public's right to know what though? The video shows a misunderstanding and the results of it.

Change misunderstanding to manslaughter voluntary or not it is still manslaughter

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

what if you voted for another guy?


so if you don't agree with the choices the system offers you, it's still your own fault if some of the people you didn't vote for do something you don't approve of...?

Im not agreeing with what happened, nor do i necessarily agree with whats going on in the Middle East, nor do i condone the way our government has become world police. But as a "whole", we are all at fault to a certain degree.


But keep in mind, you vote your congressmen into office, you vote your senator into office and you vote your President into office. All of these people are so-pose to represent your best interests as a citizen. If you did not vote for all three, then that kind of blows, but if you voted for one or all of them, then vote them out to show your displeasure on how they represented on your best interests. This is our systems checks and balances.


I will show my displeasure for what some of these clowns have done representing my so called best interests next time i vote. Fuck em!!!

[Nysus]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I was taught that the Nurnberg trials proved beyond all doubt that there are times when individuals have to circumvent normal channels in order to alert the people at large of injustice. I thought this was common knowledge.

Indeed..

So why hasn't the world come after the politicians and military of the U.S. yet? Fear of causing a deeper global economic crisis (that hasn't actually hit yet)?

[~Ray]

can someone post the video elsewhere? I cannot seem to access that page with IE

[Dirty Dane]

Going to jail for uncovering a war crime? I hope this goes to a higher court.

[iseeyou]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Imagine if it came out otherwise, and this soldier was asked why he didnt come forward with his proof and he said "I was just following orders". Would it fly, or no?

Just following orders is a valid excuse for patriotic, American hero soldiers defending our freedoms. It's not a valid excuse for ex-Nazi's though.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

I agree, that sucks and its not right. But who do you want fighting your battles? Tree huggers? flower pickers? Our solders are trained by our government to kill, not protect. Kill, Kill, Kill! Thats what they do and by the looks of it, they do it quite well. Do they make mistakes? Sure they do, they are human. But im guessing "Jesus" will forgive them if they except Jesus as their lord and personal savior or if they go to confession.lol,jk

What do you want guarding your house a 150lbs pitbull or the taco bell dog?

Think about it.





We voted these people in office to make the tough decisions on our behalf. As much as most of these decisions seem to suck as of late and for a while, it is our own fault as a "whole" for voting these people in or not voting at all.


Mistakes happen and war does suck, but until you walk a mile in these solders shoes or go to the front line with an M16, with enemies planting roadside bombs, and snipers constantly shooting at you, you really cant say if this is a true war crime or not.


I will agree with you, that what that video portrays, really does suck and is not right, but hindsight is always 20-20. Tough decisions need to be made and people do die as a resualt of these decisions, "possible innocent civilians" or our solders. Pic one, I do know both choices suck, but by not choosing both will die.

strategy hasn't been working so well.. maybe you need these soldiers to apply a bit of common sense, and not laugh when that sense proves to be in error.

[Major (Tom)]

did he break any laws? yes.
Am I glad that it was leaked? yes
do I think the Soldier's who opened fire are wrong? NO
duke

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

strategy hasn't been working so well.. maybe you need these soldiers to apply a bit of common sense, and not laugh when that sense proves to be in error.

I agree with you on how things are not working out the way we want them to. But its hard to plan a war and have it go the way you want it to go.


Common sense? Orders and objective is how these solders are trained. Kill, Kill, Kill or be killed. Follow orders, and complete the objectives. Don't ask questions do what you are ordered to do. "No Ifs, and, or buts".

Do i think that is right?? Doesn't matter what i think. It does seem to work towards the over all objective. Which is??? Not sure, but killing a lot of people must lead to something right? lol

These guys see death day in and day out. They see and experience things that nobody will ever experience. Laugh? Sometimes that is all you can do.

[iseeyou]

Fugitive Slave Act of 1850

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850

What should have been the punishment for the criminals who refused to report runaway slaves or worse, actually helped runaway slaves?

[theking]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Going to jail for uncovering a war crime? I hope this goes to a higher court.

The civilian courts cannot protect him from a military Court Martial. It is military law that he violated....in addition there was not a "war crime" committed.

[directfiesta]

He is a very bad man ...

What's next ... leaking presidential info on a breakin of a political party ...

Bad man he is indeed ..


PS: can I post a nazi swastika here ?

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by CYF

The way I understood it, Reuters was TRYING to get access to the video via a FOIA request and were denied. AFAIK nobody had it before wikileaks released it.

oh ... so it materialized and got encoded by a miracle ... Immaculate conception, part 2

[djswivle]

nothing going to happen to him

[Sharky]

these soldiers clearly thought those guys were armed. You guys are judging based on video from a single event. These soldiers were obviously concerned and probably in an area where other attacks on soldiers have been carried out. From the distance they couldn't tell a camera from a weapon.

I think its very tragic, and one of the horrific side effects of war. But it is war and mistakes do happen. Soldiers who have been fired upon in the past, are probably not too eager to be fired upon again. They are human.

The soldier who leaked the video should be tried accordingly for leaking a confidential video.

[Poindexterity]

Originally Posted by Caligari

sounds like a true patriot to me. US needs less sheeple and more people like this.

what you said.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

I agree with you on how things are not working out the way we want them to. But its hard to plan a war and have it go the way you want it to go.

I understand that, but i am more talking about an attitude shift on a 'conditioning' level. Being completely explanatory, Americans generally have an, attitude, when it comes to dealing with people not American. I have seen examples of that attitude getting in the way of communication with the people billions are being spent to 'win over'.

hard getting the trust of someone while you 'disrespect' them etc.

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

Common sense? Orders and objective is how these solders are trained. Kill, Kill, Kill or be killed. Follow orders, and complete the objectives. Don't ask questions do what you are ordered to do. "No Ifs, and, or buts".

Do i think that is right?? Doesn't matter what i think. It does seem to work towards the over all objective. Which is??? Not sure, but killing a lot of people must lead to something right? lol

These guys see death day in and day out. They see and experience things that nobody will ever experience. Laugh? Sometimes that is all you can do.

While i agree with you regarding orders, and personally i sit on the fence in regards to this issue based on security, but these events are very effective at making sure a population will always stay angry and always revolt.

even to this day, there is bombs going off in Iraq and you guys are trying to pull out

maybe if one less tank rolled over a civilians car, one less rape... that would have been one more American soldier going home

worth finding out anyway.

[Dirty Dane]

Originally Posted by theking

The civilian courts cannot protect him from a military Court Martial. It is military law that he violated....in addition there was not a "war crime" committed.

When I was in military many years ago, we learned that taking out the enemy by injury was better strategy than killing them, because then we could wait for more soldiers to arrive and shoot at them too. But that didn't include civilians, kids and driving over people when the place were secured.

But ok... it's US soldiers and they "can't" commit a crime... right? We should only applaud when the leaks are coming from China, Iran or Somalia...

There are international courts and it should go there if he is life time jailed for something that wasn't even a military secret. This is about politic and our moral, not security. It's the military that need better disciplinary, not him.

[Coup]

http://collateralmurder.com/

If you can watch that and honestly say what you just saw wasn't criminal then you're fucked in the head.

It's pretty clear those soldiers have been there way too long and have become blood thirsty animals. And the people of Iraq and afghanistan are paying the price for it.

bring 'em home. let's stop killing innocent people.

[EliteWebmaster]

This is bullshit, he should not be charged. Although that is one good way to get his ass back to the states where he belongs. Our troops need to come home. End of story.

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by JFK

Is he right or wrong, in sharing this with the rest of the world ?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/06...-video/?hpt=T1

Yes, he has sworn allegiance to the Flag etc. but is there a grey area here ? The publics right to know ?

fuck cnn vidoe player is fucked, can't see the shit